Islam forbids

[Sunni Man]

Not being able to read you mind or judge your heart how do I know you are not one of these? If you tell me you're not how can I believe you? You understand my dilemma.

Yea, you are in a dilemma..............................Sorry, but I can't help you

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

"sunniman " is a bit of a grammar nazi, in fact he is a bit of a Nazi but thats besides the point, He thinks pointing out non existent errors makes him look smart.

 

[Ringel05]

Not being able to read you mind or judge your heart how do I know you are not one of these? If you tell me you're not how can I believe you? You understand my dilemma.

Yea, you are in a dilemma..............................Sorry, but I can't help you

OK, how about this one:

I know how you can mitigate (not eliminate) my skepticism, do you?

 

[Kalam]

Please post a link to where I have been disrespectful to Islam.

You must be joking. You know as well as I that disrespecting Islam is your raison d'être.

What is the penalty under sharia law for this crime?

Under the Qur'an? Being left to wallow in your ignorance.

The life of this world is made to seem fair to those who disbelieve, and they mock those who believe. And those who keep their duty will be above them on the day of Resurrection. And Allah gives to whom He pleases without measure. - 2:212

And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah’s messages disbelieved in and mocked at, sit not with them until they enter into some other discourse, for then indeed you would be like them. Surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the disbelievers all in hell - 4:140

O you who believe, take not for friends those who take your religion as a mockery and a sport, from among those who were given the Book before you and the disbelievers; and keep your duty to Allah if you are believers. - 5:57​

 

[Intense]

Please post a link to where I have been disrespectful to Islam.

You must be joking. You know as well as I that disrespecting Islam is your raison d'être.

What is the penalty under sharia law for this crime?

Under the Qur'an? Being left to wallow in your ignorance.

The life of this world is made to seem fair to those who disbelieve, and they mock those who believe. And those who keep their duty will be above them on the day of Resurrection. And Allah gives to whom He pleases without measure. - 2:212

And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah’s messages disbelieved in and mocked at, sit not with them until they enter into some other discourse, for then indeed you would be like them. Surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the disbelievers all in hell - 4:140

O you who believe, take not for friends those who take your religion as a mockery and a sport, from among those who were given the Book before you and the disbelievers; and keep your duty to Allah if you are believers. - 5:57​

What One hold Sacred should Never be made a Mockery of Kalam. Even in disagreement, Humbleness and Humility is best. God does not Require Us to Know All of the Answers, He does Require Us to Be Faithful. He Reaches Us On His Terms, not Ours, He knocks Us Down, and Restores. Know that in All the Faiths, His Hand is at Work, in some cases working with, in others against. Regardless of Understanding, Keep Faith in Him.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Please post a link to where I have been disrespectful to Islam.

You must be joking. You know as well as I that disrespecting Islam is your raison d'être.

What is the penalty under sharia law for this crime?

Under the Qur'an? Being left to wallow in your ignorance.

The life of this world is made to seem fair to those who disbelieve, and they mock those who believe. And those who keep their duty will be above them on the day of Resurrection. And Allah gives to whom He pleases without measure. - 2:212

And indeed He has revealed to you in the Book that when you hear Allah’s messages disbelieved in and mocked at, sit not with them until they enter into some other discourse, for then indeed you would be like them. Surely Allah will gather together the hypocrites and the disbelievers all in hell - 4:140

O you who believe, take not for friends those who take your religion as a mockery and a sport, from among those who were given the Book before you and the disbelievers; and keep your duty to Allah if you are believers. - 5:57​

Strike 3
I dont mock Islam ,. I present a interpretation of Islam you don’t agree.
The interpretation I present Of Islam is in context of Islamic history in harmony with the quran the sunna and Al sira.
An interpretation that the website you link to in your sig concludes the mutz cult is not traditional Islam.

 

[Kalam]

I dont mock Islam ,.

A patently false statement.

I present a interpretation of Islam you don’t agree.
The interpretation I present Of Islam is in context of Islamic history in harmony with the quran the sunna and Al sira.

The "interpretation" you present is in harmony with hand-picked aspects of history and what are generally thought of as the traditions of Muhammad. Anything that contradicts your nonsense is conveniently overlooked.

 

[Kalam]

What One hold Sacred should Never be made a Mockery of Kalam.

This entire subforum is seemingly devoted to mocking the religious beliefs of others. It is not for the thin-skinned.

 

[Kalam]

I know how you can mitigate (not eliminate) my skepticism

Feel free to share.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I dont mock Islam ,.

A patently false statement.

I present a interpretation of Islam you don’t agree.
The interpretation I present Of Islam is in context of Islamic history in harmony with the quran the sunna and Al sira.

The "interpretation" you present is in harmony with hand-picked aspects of history and what are generally thought of as the traditions of Muhammad. Anything that contradicts your nonsense is conveniently overlooked.

You have not presented anything that contradicts what I present , you just say you reject it as being unislamic from your non traditional interpretation.
All of what I present is scriptural Islam , I do cherry pick, I only concern myself with the parts of Islam that concern me and other mushrukun.
If Islam didnt have anything to say about how muslims were to deal with disbelievers, trust me I wouldnt think about Islam again.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

I dont mock Islam ,.

A patently false statement.

I stand corrected , thanks I thought mocking involved humor .
mock  [mok] Show IPA
–verb (used with object)
1. to attack or treat with ridicule, contempt, or derision.
2. to ridicule by mimicry of action or speech; mimic derisively.
3. to mimic, imitate, or counterfeit.
4. to challenge; defy: His actions mock convention.
5. to deceive, delude, or disappoint.

Clearly Islam does not support free speech.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

In my opinion Islam needs to be challenged, even if it is a violation of the tenants of Islam.
In any case more proof non muslims are not innocent.

 

[Kalam]

How did 9/11 violate the Koran? The link to the paste was appreciated but can you be more specific?

I'll provide you with some explanations offered by others. If you have a specific question, I'll answer it to the best of my abilities. Keep in mind that the views of most of these individuals would be considered far more "conservative" than most of my own. Nonetheless, we agree as far as taking innocent life is concerned. That should tell you something.

Qaradawi et al. fatwa
NEWS \ Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez Aal ash-Shaykh says attacks are an "oppression, injustice and tyranny"...
NEWS \ Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee speaks about current affairs...
c u l t u r e k i t c h e n: Text of the Fatwa Declared Against Osama Bin Laden by the Islamic Commission of Spain
Islamtoday.Com - Terrorism & killing civilians
Islamtoday.Com - It is not an Islamic duty to initiate aggression against peaceful neighbors

As far as Muhammad being a pedophile, I see how you deal with it... denial. Good Luck with that.

I fail to see how this constitutes "denial":

Her age was lowered in that report so that no questions would be raised about her virginity, and by extension, the legitimacy of Muhammad's offspring through her.

Source: "All of these specific references to the bride's age reinforce Aisha's pre-menarcheal status and, implicitly, her virginity. They also suggest the variability of Aisha's age in the historical record." - D. A. Spellberg, Politics, Gender, and the Islamic Past.

In reality, she had been betrothed to Jubair Ibn al Mut'am, a pagan, before her engagement to Muhammad. Jubair eventually annulled their engagement. In at least two separate sources it is pointed out that Asma bint Abi Bakr, Aisha's half-sister, was 100 years old when she died in 73 AH. That would make Aisha 90 in 73 AH.

Source: "Asma died in 73 A.H. at the age of one hundred years. She was ten years older than her sister Aisha." - Ibn Kathir, Al-bidayya wal-nihaya

"She was the sister of Aisha Siddiqa, wife of the Holy Prophet, and was ten years older than her. … In 73 A.H. … Asma died at the age of one hundred years." - Mishkat al-Masabih

It boils down to whether you choose to accept the validity of Bukhari's report over the facts presented by both Ibn Kathir and Al-Tabrizi.

Muhammad the Murderer... you make his murders sound justified.

Muhammad (SAW) did not commit or order any "murders." All of those whose death he ordered represented a legitimate threat to the wellbeing of the Muslims and their allies.

I'm surprised Saddam Hussein is not worshiped. He murdered for the same reasons Muhammad did.

I'm afraid little if any of what Saddam Hussein did can be considered defense of the Islamic religion. Saddam Hussein was a secularist whose motivations were purely political.

I don't have to criticize all religions because I do so with Islam.

Not if you don't mind being hypocritical.

Other religions are not slamming planes into buildings and waging Jihad the world over.

The tip of the iceberg:

Lord's Resistance Army (LRA)
Lord's Resistance Army terrorises Congo | World news | The Guardian
Lord's Resistance Army Attacks Villages, Kidnaps Children On Sudan-Congo Border (VIDEO)


BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Graveside party celebrates Hebron massacre
Jewish terrorist commits suicide in jail | Israel | Jerusalem Post
îâæéï äëéáåù Occupation Magazine
BBC News | Middle East | Israeli killers' sentences reduced


BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | 'Church backing Tripura rebels'
BBC NEWS | South Asia | India rebels 'making porn films'
Daily Herald : Passage from India


Serbs 'enslaved Muslim women at rape camps' | World news | The Guardian

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

How did 9/11 violate the Koran? The link to the paste was appreciated but can you be more specific?

I'll provide you with some explanations offered by others. If you have a specific question, I'll answer it to the best of my abilities. Keep in mind that the views of most of these individuals would be considered far more "conservative" than most of my own. Nonetheless, we agree as far as taking innocent life is concerned. That should tell you something.

Qaradawi et al. fatwa
NEWS \ Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azeez Aal ash-Shaykh says attacks are an "oppression, injustice and tyranny"...
NEWS \ Shaykh Saalih as-Suhaymee speaks about current affairs...
c u l t u r e k i t c h e n: Text of the Fatwa Declared Against Osama Bin Laden by the Islamic Commission of Spain
Islamtoday.Com - Terrorism & killing civilians
Islamtoday.Com - It is not an Islamic duty to initiate aggression against peaceful neighbors

As far as Muhammad being a pedophile, I see how you deal with it... denial. Good Luck with that.

I fail to see how this constitutes "denial":



It boils down to whether you choose to accept the validity of Bukhari's report over the facts presented by both Ibn Kathir and Al-Tabrizi.


Muhammad (SAW) did not commit or order any "murders." All of those whose death he ordered represented a legitimate threat to the wellbeing of the Muslims and their allies.


I'm afraid little if any of what Saddam Hussein did can be considered defense of the Islamic religion. Saddam Hussein was a secularist whose motivations were purely political.

I don't have to criticize all religions because I do so with Islam.

Not if you don't mind being hypocritical.

Other religions are not slamming planes into buildings and waging Jihad the world over.

The tip of the iceberg:

Lord's Resistance Army (LRA)
Lord's Resistance Army terrorises Congo | World news | The Guardian
Lord's Resistance Army Attacks Villages, Kidnaps Children On Sudan-Congo Border (VIDEO)


BBC News | MIDDLE EAST | Graveside party celebrates Hebron massacre
Jewish terrorist commits suicide in jail | Israel | Jerusalem Post
îâæéï äëéáåù Occupation Magazine
BBC News | Middle East | Israeli killers' sentences reduced


BBC News | SOUTH ASIA | 'Church backing Tripura rebels'
BBC NEWS | South Asia | India rebels 'making porn films'
Daily Herald : Passage from India


Serbs 'enslaved Muslim women at rape camps' | World news | The Guardian

Proof by intimidation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Kalam]

Clearly Islam does not support free speech.

You'll notice that no earthly punishment is mentioned for those who mock Islam. Promises of chastisement in the hereafter can hardly be considered suppression of free speech - mock as much as you'd like.

...Go on mocking, surely Allah will bring to light what you fear. - 9:64​

Free speech in Islam as encouraged by the Caliph Ma'mun's cousin Hashimi:

... bring forward all the arguments you wish and say whatever you please and speak your mind freely. Now that you are safe and free to say whatever you please appoint some arbitrator who will impartially judge between us and lean only towards the truth and be free from the empery of passion, and that arbitrator shall be Reason, whereby God makes us responsible for our own rewards and punishments. Herein I have dealt justly with you and have given you full security and am ready to accept whatever decision Reason may give for me or against me. For "There is no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256) and I have only invited you to accept our faith willingly and of your own accord and have pointed out the hideousness of your present belief. Peace be with you and the blessings of God!​

 

[Kalam]

Proof by intimidation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm afraid that isn't a refutation.

 

[Ringel05]

I know how you can mitigate (not eliminate) my skepticism

Feel free to share.

Certainly. In order to gain the trust, primarily with the western nations the Islamic community needs to step up to the plate and start policing it's own, something that has not really happened as yet. In primarily the western countries the Islamic community needs to not only denounce violent, Islamic radicalism (which many have done - mostly lip service) but expose, isolate and if necessary eradicate the violent radical elements hiding within their midst. This alone would be a giant leap towards building trust with those in the west. Until that happens most will continue to look upon Islam and the followers of Mohammad with suspicion, hatred and fear.

 

[JW Frogen]

Free speech in Islam as encouraged by the Caliph Ma'mun's cousin Hashimi:]

Well then I am left to draw one of two conclusions, either Islam constantly contradicts itself or Muslims are so abysmally stupid they can not follow their own religion.

Few Islamic nations have a right to free speech and indeed they are trying to restrict speech world wide.

UN anti-blasphemy measures have sinister goals, observers say


Islamic countries Monday won United Nations backing for an anti-blasphemy measure Canada and other Western critics say risks being used to limit freedom of speech.

And it is like this on issue after issue, one group of Muslims use the Koran to justify jihad as war, indeed terror and another (usually minorities in the West attempting to calm the West) say oh the Koran does not mean that, it means this.

Any religion is only as meaningful as it is practiced, Islam sadly is being practiced in far too many places in the world in a way that is intolerant, sexist, violent and anti rational.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Proof by intimidation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm afraid that isn't a refutation.

No , your post is just a pile of hash,
many of them are,
no one wants to pick through them.
verbosity is not proof.
keep it pithy.

 

[Mr.Fitnah]

Clearly Islam does not support free speech.

You'll notice that no earthly punishment is mentioned for those who mock Islam. Promises of chastisement in the hereafter can hardly be considered suppression of free speech - mock as much as you'd like.

...Go on mocking, surely Allah will bring to light what you fear. - 9:64​

Free speech in Islam as encouraged by the Caliph Ma'mun's cousin Hashimi:

... bring forward all the arguments you wish and say whatever you please and speak your mind freely. Now that you are safe and free to say whatever you please appoint some arbitrator who will impartially judge between us and lean only towards the truth and be free from the empery of passion, and that arbitrator shall be Reason, whereby God makes us responsible for our own rewards and punishments. Herein I have dealt justly with you and have given you full security and am ready to accept whatever decision Reason may give for me or against me. For "There is no compulsion in religion" (Qur'an 2:256) and I have only invited you to accept our faith willingly and of your own accord and have pointed out the hideousness of your present belief. Peace be with you and the blessings of God!​

Ive just begun.

8:39

And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and polytheism: i.e. worshipping others besides Allâh) and the religion (worship) will all be for Allâh Alone [in the whole of the world[]]. But if they cease (worshipping others besides Allâh), then certainly, Allâh is All-Seer of what they do
2:193.
And fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief and worshipping of others along with Allâh) and (all and every kind of) worship is for Allâh (Alone).[] But if they cease, let there be no transgression except against Az-Zâlimûn (the polytheists, and wrong-doers, etc193

http://www.ummah.com/what-is-islam/quran/noble/

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=8&tid=20140

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5008

http://www.tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=2&tid=5035

Ibn al-A’raabi summed up the meanings of fitnah when he said: “Fitnah means testing, fitnah means trial, fitnah means wealth, fitnah means children, fitnah means kufr, fitnah means differences of opinion among people, fitnah means burning with fire.” (Lisaan al-‘Arab by Ibn Manzoor).

http://www.islam-qa.com/en/ref/22899/fitnah