Is there any USMB member who believes all deported Tren de Aragua members be returned to the US?

[Seymour Flops]

fair legal proceedings

Purposefully vague. I’m sure I won’t get anything more specific from you though.

Do you want them to be brought back for that?

 

[scruffy]

The Due Process Clause, found in both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, ensures fairness and protects individuals from government actions that deprive them of life, liberty, or property without following proper legal procedures.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Fifth Amendment:
  This amendment states that the federal government cannot deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.
  
  
• Fourteenth Amendment:
  This amendment extends the same protection to state governments, ensuring that states cannot deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.
  
  
• • Two Types of Due Process:
    • • Procedural Due Process: This requires the government to follow fair procedures and provide notice and an opportunity to be heard before taking action that could affect a person's life, liberty, or property.
      • Substantive Due Process: This protects fundamental rights from government interference, ensuring that laws themselves are fair and just.
  • Incorporation Doctrine:
    The Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause has been used to "incorporate" many of the protections in the Bill of Rights (Amendments 1-8) and apply them to the states.
  • Examples:
    • • The right to a fair trial, including the right to a jury, a lawyer, and to confront witnesses.
      • The right to privacy.
      • The right to equal protection under the law.

See post # 60

 

[sealybobo]

What process specifically is due? Describe what you want them to get?

Then I will have a few few more questions…

'Nazis got better treatment,' judge says of Trump administration's Alien Enemies Act deportations​

An appeals court heard arguments over the use of the Alien Enemies Act.

Trump administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act last week to deport more than 200 alleged members of a Venezuelan gang to El Salvador with no due process.

"There's no regulations, and nothing was adopted by the agency officials that were administering this. They people weren't given notice. They weren't told where they were going. They were given those people on those planes on that Saturday and had no opportunity to file habeas or any type of action to challenge the removal under the AEA," Judge Millet said. "What's factually wrong about what I said?"

"So your theory is that they don't get the challenges until they're in the Salvadorian jail?" the judge said. "Are you saying that they don't have a right, until they're removed from the United States, in U.S. custody, to challenge?"

"The problem here is that they are challenging implementation of a proclamation in a way that never gave anyone a chance to say, 'I'm not covered,'" the judge said.

"And if your argument is we didn't have to do that, it's an intrusion on the president's war powers, the courts are paralyzed to do anything ... that's a misreading of precedent, misreading of the text of the Alien Enemies Act," she said.

Judge Millett and Ensign appeared to agree on one thing: The president's actions have brought the court into "unprecedented territory."

"I think the intrusion upon the War Powers and foreign policy powers of the president is utterly unprecedented," Ensign argued.

"Well, this is an unprecedented action as well," Millet responded. "So of course, there's no precedent for it, because no president has ever used this statute this way, which isn't to say one way or the other if it can be done, but simply to say we are in unprecedented territory."

The hearing comes hours after Judge Boasberg ruled that the migrants deserved to have a court hearing before their deportations to determine whether they belonged to the Tren de Aragua gang.

In a ruling denying the Trump administration's request to dissolve his order blocking the deportations, Judge Boasberg wrote that Trump's "unprecedented use" of the Alien Enemies Act does not remove the government's responsibility to ensure the men removed could contest their designation as alleged gang members.

Trump last week invoked the Alien Enemies Act -- a wartime authority used to deport noncitizens with little-to-no due process -- by arguing that the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua is a "hybrid criminal state" that is invading the United States. Boasberg temporarily blocked the president's use of the law to deport more than 200 alleged gang members to El Salvador, calling the removals "awfully frightening" and "incredibly troublesome."

An official with the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement subsequently acknowledged in a sworn declaration that "many" of the noncitizens deported last week under the Alien Enemies Act did not have criminal records in the United States.

 

[Lisa558]

All deportees deserve hearings with counsel present.

Since they’re here illegally and harmful to our citizens, do taxpayers still have to pay for their lawyers?

 

[sealybobo]

Purposefully vague. I’m sure I won’t get anything more specific from you though.

Do you want them to be brought back for that?

Yes. Sorry to say it, but yes. Bring them all back, give them their rights, and if they are gang members, or illegals, deport them. But do it right. This is scary. I don't want a president to have this power and neither should you. Even if you love who you THINK he's doing this to. You could be wrong. That's why we have courts.

"many" of the noncitizens deported under the Alien Enemies Act did not have criminal records in the United States.

 

[Seymour Flops]

'Nazis got better treatment,' judge says of Trump administration's Alien Enemies Act deportations​

An appeals court heard arguments over the use of the Alien Enemies Act.

Trump administration's use of the Alien Enemies Act last week to deport more than 200 alleged members of a Venezuelan gang to El Salvador with no due process.

"There's no regulations, and nothing was adopted by the agency officials that were administering this. They people weren't given notice. They weren't told where they were going. They were given those people on those planes on that Saturday and had no opportunity to file habeas or any type of action to challenge the removal under the AEA," Judge Millet said. "What's factually wrong about what I said?"

"So your theory is that they don't get the challenges until they're in the Salvadorian jail?" the judge said. "Are you saying that they don't have a right, until they're removed from the United States, in U.S. custody, to challenge?"

"The problem here is that they are challenging implementation of a proclamation in a way that never gave anyone a chance to say, 'I'm not covered,'" the judge said.

"And if your argument is we didn't have to do that, it's an intrusion on the president's war powers, the courts are paralyzed to do anything ... that's a misreading of precedent, misreading of the text of the Alien Enemies Act," she said.

Judge Millett and Ensign appeared to agree on one thing: The president's actions have brought the court into "unprecedented territory."

"I think the intrusion upon the War Powers and foreign policy powers of the president is utterly unprecedented," Ensign argued.

"Well, this is an unprecedented action as well," Millet responded. "So of course, there's no precedent for it, because no president has ever used this statute this way, which isn't to say one way or the other if it can be done, but simply to say we are in unprecedented territory."

The hearing comes hours after Judge Boasberg ruled that the migrants deserved to have a court hearing before their deportations to determine whether they belonged to the Tren de Aragua gang.

In a ruling denying the Trump administration's request to dissolve his order blocking the deportations, Judge Boasberg wrote that Trump's "unprecedented use" of the Alien Enemies Act does not remove the government's responsibility to ensure the men removed could contest their designation as alleged gang members.

Trump last week invoked the Alien Enemies Act -- a wartime authority used to deport noncitizens with little-to-no due process -- by arguing that the Venezuelan gang Tren de Aragua is a "hybrid criminal state" that is invading the United States. Boasberg temporarily blocked the president's use of the law to deport more than 200 alleged gang members to El Salvador, calling the removals "awfully frightening" and "incredibly troublesome."

An official with the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement subsequently acknowledged in a sworn declaration that "many" of the noncitizens deported last week under the Alien Enemies Act did not have criminal records in the United States.

Nice cut and paste.

Do you want them brought back for this “fair legal proceeding” or not?

 

[sealybobo]

Pound sand, boo boo clown

Not liking the constitution and the 5th and 14th Amendment doesn't make you a patriot. It makes you a nazi bro. Or just like them.

 

[MarathonMike]

The Due Process Clause, found in both the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments, ensures fairness and protects individuals from government actions that deprive them of life, liberty, or property without following proper legal procedures.

Here's a more detailed explanation:

• Fifth Amendment:
  This amendment states that the federal government cannot deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.
  
  
• Fourteenth Amendment:
  This amendment extends the same protection to state governments, ensuring that states cannot deprive any person of life, liberty, or property without due process of law.
  
  
• • Two Types of Due Process:
    • • Procedural Due Process: This requires the government to follow fair procedures and provide notice and an opportunity to be heard before taking action that could affect a person's life, liberty, or property.
      • Substantive Due Process: This protects fundamental rights from government interference, ensuring that laws themselves are fair and just.
  • Incorporation Doctrine:
    The Fourteenth Amendment's Due Process Clause has been used to "incorporate" many of the protections in the Bill of Rights (Amendments 1-8) and apply them to the states.
  • Examples:
    • • The right to a fair trial, including the right to a jury, a lawyer, and to confront witnesses.
      • The right to privacy.
      • The right to equal protection under the law.

Another WRONG interpretation of "due process". So we have two votes for all of Tren de Aragua to return to the US, sealybobo and Moonglow. Any others?

 

[sealybobo]

Nice cut and paste.

Do you want them brought back for this “fair legal proceeding” or not?

Yes. Trump fucked up. I want him to work within the law. So hell yea I want them brought back and given a fair hearing. Did you know this? "many" of the noncitizens deported last week under the Alien Enemies Act did not have criminal records in the United States.

 

[Seymour Flops]

Yes. Trump fucked up. I want him to work within the law. So hell yea I want them brought back and given a fair hearing. Did you know this? "many" of the noncitizens deported last week under the Alien Enemies Act did not have criminal records in the United States.

I don’t see the relevance, if they are suspected gang members who came to the country illegally. The mere fact that they are here illegally means expedited removal is the process due. Their suspected gang membership only prioritizes their removal.

If tax dollars are spent bringing them back, what benefit will that bring for US taxpayers?

Since it is only Trump who has this so wrong, which prominent Dems are calling for their return?

 

[MarathonMike]

How about the RAPED and MURDERED Americans? This is why the American people hate the Democrats guts, they are wormy slime traitors.

Amazing how these bleeding hearts never give a shit about AMERICANS.

 

[konradv]

Since they’re here illegally and harmful to our citizens, do taxpayers still have to pay for their lawyers?

Of course they do, but not all of them are here illegally. The only way to find out is with hearings.

 

[konradv]

they all got that,,

No they didn’t. MAGA lies.

 

[konradv]

How about the RAPED and MURDERED Americans? This is why the American people hate the Democrats guts, they are wormy slime traitors.

Everyone has the right to a hearing, even rapists and murderers.

 

[Lisa558]

Of course they do, but not all of them are here illegally. The only way to find out is with hearings.

Lots of them have had hearings and were told to self-deport. The libs want all the gang members from San Salvador to remain in this country.

They have no right to be here, and are hurting our country.

 

[Lisa558]

Everyone has the right to a hearing, even rapists and murderers.

So you would err on the side of what benefits a rapist or murderer instead of his next victim?

 

[Rawley]

All deportees deserve hearings with counsel present.

Obama and Biden deported hundreds of thousands without hearings or counsel present. Why are you holding Trump to a different standard?

 

[schmidlap]

Let's see our staunch Democrat supporters stand up and be counted. Who agrees with Jamie Raskin? Should the deported Tren de Aragua gang members be brought back into the US or not?

No deportee who has been legally deported should be returned to the U.S.

We remain, purportedly, a nation of laws.

 

[konradv]

So you would err on the side of what benefits a rapist or murderer instead of his next victim?

Why would their be a next victim? I said hearing, not release. Maybe they were picked up in error. Never mind that the 5th amendment guarantees due process to everyone in the US, citizen or not.

 

[Lisa558]

Why would their be a next victim? I said hearing, not release. Maybe they were picked up in error. Never mind that the 5th amendment guarantees due process to everyone in the US, citizen or not.

Again, you are erring on the side of the criminal foreigner rather than the possibility he will kill or rape again.