Is There a God? Or Gods?

[ding]

Our god must have a mama-god and a papa-god.

Why?

Everyone has to. So why not god if we're made in his image?

The logic doesn't follow ....

Being made in His image doesn't necessarily mean He was made the same way we were ... you give humans WAY too much credit.

I understand. If you have a made up God, there is no reason why you can't just make up a bunch of stuff to describe him.

Reason and experience sprinkled with divine revelation.

You really have no excuse.

 

[ding]

We are never to think of God's power in terms of what he could conceivably do by the exercise of what we may call sheer omnipotence which crushes all obstacles in its path. We are always to think of God's power in terms of his purpose. If what he did by sheer omnipotence defeated his purpose, then, however startling and impressive, it would be an expression of weakness, not of power. Indeed, a good definition of power is "ability to achieve purpose. Does it fulfill its purpose?

God's power is not put forward to get certain things done, but to get them done in a certain way, and with certain results in the lives of those who do them. Action which defeats purpose is weakness. Power is the ability to fulfill purpose. No one knows what it cost God to refrain from intervention.

“Religion’s Answer to the Problem of Evil”

Got it. We are required to pick the right God out of a lineup of all the religions with no way to tell one from the other, or which one might be the right one. No hints. The wrong choice means eternal torture. That doesn't sound like the loving and forgiving God that so many Christians brag about.

There is only one. He doesn't care what you call him. You can't miss him.

Really? What makes him look any different than any of the other Gods? He seems to make great efforts to remain anonymous.

I don't believe it matters how you see God. See him whatever way works best for you.

You are just throwing up excuses.

You should research the difference between excuses and questions.

You should stop rationalizing.

 

[Spare_change]

Our god must have a mama-god and a papa-god.

Why?

Everyone has to. So why not god if we're made in his image?

The logic doesn't follow ....

Being made in His image doesn't necessarily mean He was made the same way we were ... you give humans WAY too much credit.

I understand. If you have a made up God, there is no reason why you can't just make up a bunch of stuff to describe him.

Actually, you don't understand ... but that comes as no surprise.

I made nothing up --- I merely pointed out the flaw in his logic. The answer is, obviously, unknown. His uneducated guess was just exactly that.

 

[Not2BSubjugated]

I'm pretty sure that there is only me. I can't be altogether certain, particularly in my current state of mind, but I'm pretty sure that I've always been, and there was, is, and always will be, only me. To cope with an eternity of time to myself, I'm often given to long, elaborate daydreams, wherein I envision myself with some random set of fanciful limitations and defining characteristics. I imagine that I am not the only consciousness, that there are other entities like me, and I assign them definitions and limitations similar to the ones that I've dreamed up for myself, and then I hypothesize about how I might interact with these other entities given the circumstances that I've concocted. Sometimes, I'm so taken with these daydreams that I lose myself in the fragmented and finite "me" that is the protagonist of a given reverie, and I forget, for a time, that I am all. But, eventually, the thought exercise reaches the sort of conclusion that would be inevitable for such a finite and definable existence, and I awaken once more to the reality of my omnipresent solitude.

The rest of you are just figments of my imagination. I hope that doesn't make you feel marginalized.

I know it might seem that way to you, but that's just because my computer program that created you, and everything else as a massive simulation of what human life might be designed you to think that.

That's funny. Realistically, I actually find simulation "theory" to be among the more compelling hypotheses regarding the true nature of existence. Been relatively fascinated with the idea for about a year now.

 

[zaangalewa]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

We also don't have a proof that a spirit-being like a "circle" exists or higher dimensions in space exists. Nevertheless physics needs to use such mental, spiritual or intellectual ideas. Looks like we live in a world full of spirit - but we are only able to prove with the methods of physics what's interacting with us in a special way. You could for example stand in the center of the sun - as long as the sun interacts not with you you would not be able to say anything about her.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit.

No. Example: If someone believes in right-left, up-down and forward-backward then he is able to move in three dimensions. But this creates not three different spaces. In all three directions is space. God father, god son and the Holy Spirit are the same god.

Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them.

"God" and "gods" are from my point of view totally different things, which have only a common history of the words but not a common reality.

One God is superior to all the others.

You don't understand what the Christian religion says.

And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why you made so many jokes here.

That's why

That's why?

I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians.

Specially because they are not Indians and the name "America" is an invention of Germans?

The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

Saint Francis spoke with birds for example. All living creatures have spirit.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

Is someone able to get an inspiration and is able to realize this dreams or ideas? Sure everyone is able to do so. Spirit is a fact. Is someone able to create only one microgram energy or matter? No.

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence.

The Catholic priest Georges Lemaître spoke about a primeval atom - and created the big bang theory in this way. A luck for some wonderful US-actors, who make a lot of money with.

Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

No. On the other side existed already about 600 million years after the big bang a black hole in the "size" of about 1 billion masses of our sun. And they found also more heavy atoms than only H or He . This could mean an ET civilization could be about 10 billion years older than we are. How would this human beings think? What could they know? How mighty they are? What if they are scatterbrained?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our
current existence?

Good and bad Karma are the consequence oft he own deeds - this leads to good and bad reincarnations. The best reincarnation is to go in heaven - ah sorry into nirvana.

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

or an angel in heaven?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Atheists believe not to believe. I made the experience it drives some of them crazy that their (spiritual) ideas about a world without spirituality are not very plausible for others. And in case of agnosticism the situation is in my eyes a little crazy. Agnosticism is just simple the philosophy which finds out that atheism as well as its opposite (theism) are both forms of a spiritual belief. But the English speaking world combines the method empiricism as a kind of false god with agnosticism and reduces agnosticism in this way only to a form of atheism too.

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others

Sorry but Philistines and Carthaginians for example sacrificed also their own children. Tolerance is not able to tolerate everything.

or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

I'm a Catholic.

 

[Syriusly]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

Perhaps the best post you have ever written.

My beliefs?

I don't believe in a god or gods, but I respect that others do. And who knows- somebody else might be right- but the 'gods' just don't make any sense to me.

I have no issue with those who find peace and comfort with their religious beliefs- I don't even mind if they want to share them with me, as long as they stop when I ask them to stop.

I do object when people want to argue their beliefs with me- and because we are in the United States- that essentially is always one brand or another of Christian- literally no Jew, Muslim or Buddhist has ever tried to tell me that I should believe what they believe- but that may well be because I know and encounter soooooo many more Christians.

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

 

[longknife]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

We also don't have a proof that a spirit-being like a "circle" exists or higher dimensions in space exists. Nevertheless physics needs to use such mental, spiritual or intellectual ideas. Looks like we live in a world full of spirit - but we are only able to prove with the methods of physics what's interacting with us in a special way. You could for example stand in the center of the sun - as long as the sun interacts not with you you would not be able to say anything about her.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit.

No. Example: If someone believes in right-left, up-down and forward-backward then he is able to move in three dimensions. But this creates not three different spaces. In all three directions is space. God father, god son and the Holy Spirit are the same god.

Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them.

"God" and "gods" are from my point of view totally different things, which have only a common history of the words but not a common reality.

One God is superior to all the others.

You don't understand what the Christian religion says.

And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why you made so many jokes here.

That's why

That's why?

I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians.

Specially because they are not Indians and the name "America" is an invention of Germans?

The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

Saint Francis spoke with birds for example. All living creatures have spirit.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

Is someone able to get an inspiration and is able to realize this dreams or ideas? Sure everyone is able to do so. Spirit is a fact. Is someone able to create only one microgram energy or matter? No.

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence.

The Catholic priest Georges Lemaître spoke about a primeval atom - and created the big bang theory in this way. A luck for some wonderful US-actors, who make a lot of money with.

Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

No. On the other side existed already about 600 million years after the big bang a black hole in the "size" of about 1 billion masses of our sun. And they found also more heavy atoms than only H or He . This could mean an ET civilization could be about 10 billion years older than we are. How would this human beings think? What could they know? How mighty they are? What if they are scatterbrained?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our
current existence?

Good and bad Karma are the consequence oft he own deeds - this leads to good and bad reincarnations. The best reincarnation is to go in heaven - ah sorry into nirvana.

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

or an angel in heaven?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Atheists believe not to believe. I made the experience it drives some of them crazy that their (spiritual) ideas about a world without spirituality are not very plausible for others. And in case of agnosticism the situation is in my eyes a little crazy. Agnosticism is just simple the philosophy which finds out that atheism as well as its opposite (theism) are both forms of a spiritual belief. But the English speaking world combines the method empiricism as a kind of false god with agnosticism and reduces agnosticism in this way only to a form of atheism too.

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others

Sorry but Philistines and Carthaginians for example sacrificed also their own children. Tolerance is not able to tolerate everything.

or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

I'm a Catholic.

Thank you for a reasoned, logical response. Even though I disagree with most of it.

 

[zaangalewa]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit. Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them. One God is superior to all the others. And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians. The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence. Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our current existence?

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

Perhaps the best post you have ever written.

My beliefs?

I don't believe in a god or gods, but I respect that others do. And who knows- somebody else might be right- but the 'gods' just don't make any sense to me.

I have no issue with those who find peace and comfort with their religious beliefs- I don't even mind if they want to share them with me, as long as they stop when I ask them to stop.

And if you say "start" then others have to save your ass with weapons because they are nice US-American Christians?

I do object when people want to argue their beliefs with me- and because we are in the United States- that essentially is always one brand or another of Christian- literally no Jew, Muslim or Buddhist has ever tried to tell me that I should believe what they believe- but that may well be because I know and encounter soooooo many more Christians.

If you would be a Rohingya, whose parents or grandparent fought for a Muslim state, and are now a misrespected minority then you would perhaps see the world in a another spectrum of problems.

So believe what you will-

Who asks you for your allowance?

belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

You are not fine with. You live in fear. The fear your own ideas about others could be true. The strange thing: You would not live in fear if everyone would be a Satanist, isn't it? This would near your illusion the USA is the most tolerant country in the world - as long as the Satanists let you say "do so as long as you stay non-violent".

 

[zaangalewa]

We have no scientific proof whatsoever that a deity exists. Or angels or demons.

We also don't have a proof that a spirit-being like a "circle" exists or higher dimensions in space exists. Nevertheless physics needs to use such mental, spiritual or intellectual ideas. Looks like we live in a world full of spirit - but we are only able to prove with the methods of physics what's interacting with us in a special way. You could for example stand in the center of the sun - as long as the sun interacts not with you you would not be able to say anything about her.

Yet, from time immemorial, humans have displayed a belief in such beings. Everywhere human beings tread the sod, they have some form of belief. Some, like Christians, Jews, and Muslims are Monotheists who believe in one Supreme Being. And even among Christians, there is a belief in two other Gods, Jesus and The Holy Spirit.

No. Example: If someone believes in right-left, up-down and forward-backward then he is able to move in three dimensions. But this creates not three different spaces. In all three directions is space. God father, god son and the Holy Spirit are the same god.

Many others, especially older societies are Polytheists who believe in many Gods. There is one thing in common with all of them.

"God" and "gods" are from my point of view totally different things, which have only a common history of the words but not a common reality.

One God is superior to all the others.

You don't understand what the Christian religion says.

And those with multiple gods, each has an area of concern and many of them have faults similar to humans. But, almost all of them are humorless.

That's why you made so many jokes here.

That's why

That's why?

I thoroughly enjoy the myths and beliefs of American Indians.

Specially because they are not Indians and the name "America" is an invention of Germans?

The vast majority of them have deities who make jokes or even fall on their faces. Brother Coyote who continually gets in trouble but always gets out of it and never dies. And there is brave Brother Rabbit who fears nothing and always fights for the others. And, far before the arrival of Europeans had tales of a great flood and coming from The Land of Ice. And many have stories of the creation of the lands where they live.

Saint Francis spoke with birds for example. All living creatures have spirit.

So, what causes this? Why do humans need to turn to mythical beings outside of their physical realm who somehow are responsible for all their ills? Or miracles?

Could it be that such beings truly exist?

Is someone able to get an inspiration and is able to realize this dreams or ideas? Sure everyone is able to do so. Spirit is a fact. Is someone able to create only one microgram energy or matter? No.

I'm an avid fan of science fiction having started reading it about the time I entered kindergarten. One of the thesis I remember was our solar system or universe being but one atom of a large molecule in another existence.

The Catholic priest Georges Lemaître spoke about a primeval atom - and created the big bang theory in this way. A luck for some wonderful US-actors, who make a lot of money with.

Another was about highly advanced civilizations existing in which beings terraformed our planet and guided the creation of everything upon it, watching over it to view the course of their creation.

Could these beings be the Gods we have come to believe in?

No. On the other side existed already about 600 million years after the big bang a black hole in the "size" of about 1 billion masses of our sun. And they found also more heavy atoms than only H or He . This could mean an ET civilization could be about 10 billion years older than we are. How would this human beings think? What could they know? How mighty they are? What if they are scatterbrained?

And, what about the belief in Karma and the Resurrection? Why do so many believe in an existence beyond our
current existence?

Good and bad Karma are the consequence oft he own deeds - this leads to good and bad reincarnations. The best reincarnation is to go in heaven - ah sorry into nirvana.

Another theme that has always interested me is that we were created like some insects that go through changes; a pupa changing into a chrysalis into a beautiful butterfly. Are we simply in the pupa stage? And how we act on this plane of existence determines whether we become a butterfly - or a moth?

or an angel in heaven?

So, are gods and angels and demons simply beings who have progressed beyond our plane of existence to a higher one? Or, could we be a breeding ground for advanced civilizations that no longer recreate physically?

Or a whole lot of other things?

And finally, there are those who believe in none of the above and are ready to support their beliefs by any means - to include denying all beliefs but their own. Atheists and agnostics who want to removal or destruction of all mythical beliefs. Why are they so virulent in their disbelief?

Atheists believe not to believe. I made the experience it drives some of them crazy that their (spiritual) ideas about a world without spirituality are not very plausible for others. And in case of agnosticism the situation is in my eyes a little crazy. Agnosticism is just simple the philosophy which finds out that atheism as well as its opposite (theism) are both forms of a spiritual belief. But the English speaking world combines the method empiricism as a kind of false god with agnosticism and reduces agnosticism in this way only to a form of atheism too.

Okay, so what are my personal beliefs? First, I do not believe that man-made beliefs and structures are the final say in our existence and possible future. I think everyone has a right to believe what they wish without the interference of others

Sorry but Philistines and Carthaginians for example sacrificed also their own children. Tolerance is not able to tolerate everything.

or that their belief does not require them to belittle or even destroy anyone who does not agree with them. If sitting in a special building to listen to someone explain what you should believe is what turns you on - good for you. Go for it. The few times in my life when I felt close to something above and beyond myself were in the midst of places of such calm and beauty that my spirit felt beyond my existence. Muir Woods. Overlooking a spot on the rugged California Coast. A few others I'm not going to dig too deep for.

So, back to my original question. Is there a God? Or Gods?

To me, that's up to each individual to believe or disbelieve. I hope whatever that is, it gives you peace and a desire to live a better life to include respect for all of Creation and the creatures in it.

In other words, have a good life.

What do you believe? Without flaming please.

I'm a Catholic.

Thank you for a reasoned, logical response. Even though I disagree with most of it.

Also a way to say "You wasted your time"

 

[ding]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

 

[longknife]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

That's exactly what the Left demands.

 

[Syriusly]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

That's exactly what the Left demands.

Of course what the Right demands is that everyone must believe- and agree with- the Christian faith- but some on the right will also accept the Jewish faith.

 

[ding]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

That's exactly what the Left demands.

I understand that fully. My signature says it all.

 

[ding]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

That's exactly what the Left demands.

Of course what the Right demands is that everyone must believe- and agree with- the Christian faith- but some on the right will also accept the Jewish faith.

No. I don't think so. I've never attacked the faith of others. I'm happy enough for them to see their Creator any way they see fit.

 

[Syriusly]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

I have no idea why you would think I would ever want to 'suspend your secular rights'- once again here is what I said- and no where did I indicate any such thing.

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it

 

[ding]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

I have no idea why you would think I would ever want to 'suspend your secular rights'- once again here is what I said- and no where did I indicate any such thing.

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it

It was a question. Not a statement.

 

[Syriusly]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

I have no idea why you would think I would ever want to 'suspend your secular rights'- once again here is what I said- and no where did I indicate any such thing.

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it

It was a question. Not a statement.

Okay I will just ask this question. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. Are you planning on killing anyone who disagrees with you?

Just a question- not a statement.

 

[ding]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

I have no idea why you would think I would ever want to 'suspend your secular rights'- once again here is what I said- and no where did I indicate any such thing.

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it

It was a question. Not a statement.

Okay I will just ask this question. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. Are you planning on killing anyone who disagrees with you?

Just a question- not a statement.

No. Not at the moment anyway.

Does anyone ever plan on doing that?

 

[Syriusly]

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it.

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

I have no idea why you would think I would ever want to 'suspend your secular rights'- once again here is what I said- and no where did I indicate any such thing.

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it

It was a question. Not a statement.

Okay I will just ask this question. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. Are you planning on killing anyone who disagrees with you?

Just a question- not a statement.

No. Not at the moment anyway.

Does anyone ever plan on doing that?

Clearly some people do.

Does anyone ever plan on suspending your secular rights?

 

[ding]

We live in a shared society with shared consequences. My faith informs my values. Would you have me suspend my secular rights because I have different values than you?

I have no idea why you would think I would ever want to 'suspend your secular rights'- once again here is what I said- and no where did I indicate any such thing.

So believe what you will- belong to any religion you want to- or don't, just so long as you stay non-violent, don't advocate violence and don't try to push your religious morality on everyone else- I am fine with it

It was a question. Not a statement.

Okay I will just ask this question. We live in a shared society with shared consequences. Are you planning on killing anyone who disagrees with you?

Just a question- not a statement.

No. Not at the moment anyway.

Does anyone ever plan on doing that?

Clearly some people do.

Does anyone ever plan on suspending your secular rights?

No. I don't think it is clear that some do. Not unless they first had the disagreement and went home and stewed about it and then killed them. And in that case they still didn't plan on doing it before they had the disagreement.

As for my original question, I wasn't addressing that part anyway. I was addressing the part where you said as long as they don't try to push [their] religious morality on everyone else.

My values are informed by my faith and inform my vote. So insofar as our Republic allows my vote is an attempt to force my values upon society, just as you do with yours. Right?