Is the Russian army holding back ??

[Unkotare]

I've wondered that myself.
I've always thought Russia had a pretty good military but after watching then in the Ukraine I'm not so sure.

Drunks, glue addicts, hopelessly depressed cannon fodder. Dying stupidly in droves in WWII was anything but "heroic" no matter what they want to tell themselves.

 

[HereWeGoAgain]

Drunks, glue addicts, hopelessly depressed cannon fodder. Dying stupidly in droves in WWII was anything but "heroic" no matter what they want to tell themselves.

I wasn't referring to WW2 or their weapons in those days.

 

[ESay]

It’s already well on the way. Let’s start with the one nobody thinks about. Airlines.

Turbulence batters Russia’s air sector

Russia’s aviation industry was hit hard by sanctions. Moscow’s officials want to play that down.

www.politico.eu

The planes can’t fly internationally. They defaulted on ten billion in loans. What that means is even if Russia issued a Mea Culpa right now those leasing companies would hang up as soon as the Russian Airlines called to arrange a new deal.

So no new modern planes for what? A generation or two?

The planes are not getting regular service. That means they are getting more and more dangerous to fly. The places they can fly to are going to start saying Nyet after a few fall out of the sky.

The work of decades to build up Russian airlines was undone in a year. Decades shot to hell.

Europe made it through the first winter with restricted Russian Oil and gas. That means they’ll have the new sources coming online. That means Russian Oil will be even more restricted and less profitable. Russian threats to turn off the tap will have less of an impact going forward.

What Europe showed the world about renewable energy

It’s possible to do hard things for the climate — and the US isn’t that far behind.

www.vox.com

Russia has never been self sufficient. And as time goes by their workarounds will become even more extreme.

They have to pay for the munitions they are expending while the world finances the munitions being fired back. Nobody is helping them afford the war. For now the Russian Economy is being held up by strict government control but that can’t last forever. Russia is liable to be begging for food this winter.

Russia having difficulty making new weapons, but might have enough older ones, report says | CNN

Battlefield losses and Western sanctions have left the Russian military in a state of decline, but Moscow will still have enough firepower to extend the war in Ukraine, according to a new independent analysis.

amp.cnn.com

Earlier I explained about the ratio. As the weapons and munitions become even more scarce the effect will be a greater death ratio of Russian troops. More young men dead mean more widows and women who will not be able to find husbands. That means lower population in the future. Fewer people does that.

It also erodes Russian morale at home. And then more money and people have to be spent keeping the people at home in line.

It is a downward spiral. And the worse it gets the worse it is going to get. As I said above. Decades of work has already been destroyed. And it is only going to get worse.

There are no doubts that the sanctions have impact on the Russian economy. Their infrastructure, energy sector and the economy as a whole will be degrading in the future.

But will this lead to the regime change or Russia's fragmentation? I have some doubts about that. Countries adapt to restrictive measures; yes, at the cost of common population, but nevertheless.

Venezuela and Iran are prime examples of that. They live under economic sanctions for years or even decades. Russia is rich on natural resources and there are plenty of countries around the world that want to get them, especially at affordable price.

Except of that, China will do their best to not to allow Russia to get 'defeated'.

 

[skye]

The Russian Army was holding back in the beginning....when they thought there was an opportunity for peace.

Not anymore.....they know the Collective West does not want peace.

Still, they are not going with 100%.

 

[SavannahMann]

There are no doubts that the sanctions have impact on the Russian economy. Their infrastructure, energy sector and the economy as a whole will be degrading in the future.

But will this lead to the regime change or Russia's fragmentation? I have some doubts about that. Countries adapt to restrictive measures; yes, at the cost of common population, but nevertheless.

Venezuela and Iran are prime examples of that. They live under economic sanctions for years or even decades. Russia is rich on natural resources and there are plenty of countries around the world that want to get them, especially at affordable price.

Except of that, China will do their best to not to allow Russia to get 'defeated'.

I’m sorry if I gave the impression of Regime Change. I didn’t intend that. I was speaking to the fact that Putin is old, and getting older. As well as the curious coincidence of Russians falling out of windows with some regularity.



Russia is cracking down on dissent. And that isn’t going to change. But it takes more resources and people all the time. If one person gets away with opposing Putin or the War, then others will be emboldened. So Russia needs a large and relentless police force to keep the authoritarian regime in place. The more they spend and expend at home, the less they have in the war. The more deaths that result.



They need this to be the reality for those who oppose Putin. They need this rapid of a response. Putin is former KGB. He knows this.

When Russia pulled back from one of the cities at the end of last summer. A broadcaster reported it and then said he had no comments about it. By law if he said he agreed with the decision he could be labeled as a dissenter and a defeatist and thrown in jail. If he said he disagreed with the decision he could be labeled as not supporting the army and be thrown in jail. So he would say nothing.

That alone was a powerful message. One the Russian people got loud and clear. The older generation remember the Soviet days.

And another thing the younger generations are learning. An old Russian saying from those bad old days. The piss poor work the average Russian did. They had a saying. As long as they pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work.

Those lies I mentioned in an earlier reply. They infected the Soviet system once. They are still infecting the military. They will spread to other segments rapidly.

 

[ESay]

I’m sorry if I gave the impression of Regime Change. I didn’t intend that. I was speaking to the fact that Putin is old, and getting older. As well as the curious coincidence of Russians falling out of windows with some regularity.



Russia is cracking down on dissent. And that isn’t going to change. But it takes more resources and people all the time. If one person gets away with opposing Putin or the War, then others will be emboldened. So Russia needs a large and relentless police force to keep the authoritarian regime in place. The more they spend and expend at home, the less they have in the war. The more deaths that result.



They need this to be the reality for those who oppose Putin. They need this rapid of a response. Putin is former KGB. He knows this.

When Russia pulled back from one of the cities at the end of last summer. A broadcaster reported it and then said he had no comments about it. By law if he said he agreed with the decision he could be labeled as a dissenter and a defeatist and thrown in jail. If he said he disagreed with the decision he could be labeled as not supporting the army and be thrown in jail. So he would say nothing.

That alone was a powerful message. One the Russian people got loud and clear. The older generation remember the Soviet days.

And another thing the younger generations are learning. An old Russian saying from those bad old days. The piss poor work the average Russian did. They had a saying. As long as they pretend to pay us, we will pretend to work.

Those lies I mentioned in an earlier reply. They infected the Soviet system once. They are still infecting the military. They will spread to other segments rapidly.

The main fault of your thinking is limiting your views only to the Soviet era, as if there was nothing before. Russia, in one or another form, existed from many centuries ago and their national mentality and the principles of ruling elites were coined much earlier than 1917. The Soviet system was just a reincarnation of the Russian empire under some new and utopian ideas.

The Czar the Father (or in some cases the Czarina the Mother) is the main pillar of the power construct of the Russian state. He personifies, unites and leads all branches of power - government, State counselors, judicial system, church etc. The Western idea of division of power is meaningless for them.

Also, their idea of their grandeur, exceptionalism and 'protectionism'. Gathering of 'Russian' lands, protection of the Slavic people, the Orthodox church, their frontiers etc are all included in their ideology all over the years and are the main basis for their expansionist policy.

What I want to say. The Putin regime was inevitable after Yeltsin's weakness. And have no doubts that after another Yeltsin there will be another Putin.

 

[SavannahMann]

The main fault of your thinking is limiting your views only to the Soviet era, as if there was nothing before. Russia, in one or another form, existed from many centuries ago and their national mentality and the principles of ruling elites were coined much earlier than 1917. The Soviet system was just a reincarnation of the Russian empire under some new and utopian ideas.

The Czar the Father (or in some cases the Czarina the Mother) is the main pillar of the power construct of the Russian state. He personifies, unites and leads all branches of power - government, State counselors, judicial system, church etc. The Western idea of division of power is meaningless for them.

Also, their idea of their grandeur, exceptionalism and 'protectionism'. Gathering of 'Russian' lands, protection of the Slavic people, the Orthodox church, their frontiers etc are all included in their ideology all over the years and are the main basis for their expansionist policy.

What I want to say. The Putin regime was inevitable after Yeltsin's weakness. And have no doubts that after another Yeltsin there will be another Putin.

I’m not forgetting it at all. The lies and corruption of the Czarist regime is what fertilized the ground for the revolution. The problem is that the new rulers were just as corrupt and lied even more than the old regime.

The problem isn’t just in the Soviet. However it is worth noting the rulers of today at the top were all KGB types. Those guys were true believers in Marxism. They had to have perfect political reliability to even be considered for those jobs.

Worse, they were all indoctrinated to believe that real power comes through strength and control.

The Russian Army of today still uses the same Officer Centric command structure. Yes. The American Army has Officers in charge. But NCO’s are the serious professionals that guide those officers. Especially the younger ones.

Look at it this way. The Platoon Leader. The young Lieutenant in his first assignment. He has a NCO with fifteen years of experience at his elbow guiding the youngster. In our Army anyway. The Company Commander has a twenty year veteran to guide him. And every command on up has a senior NCO to advise the Officer.

The Russians still don’t have the professional NCO core that the Western Armies have.

NCOs: America Has Them, China Wants Them, Russia is Struggling Without Them

Non-commissioned officers, long the “backbone” of the U.S. military, are proving even more crucial on modern battlefields.

www.defenseone.com

So if the young officer doesn’t know what should be done from his books, there just isn’t a professional there to advise him.

This is the way the Soviet Army operated. We were briefed on their military when I was in the Army training to fight them. The advantages of our system. The professional experience our people had. The years of experience the newest officer had at his fingertips to help him learn and avoids costly mistakes.

The Russians don’t. The reason is that to have a professional NCO corps in your army means you trust the Enlisted. Trusting the peasants is not a Russian trait.

There really is no difference between the Russian Army of today and the Soviet Army of Yesterday.

In Soviet echo, Putin gives Russian army a political wing

Vladimir Putin has created a new directorate inside the Russian army to promote patriotism, evoking memories of a Soviet practice that once saw soldiers taught the precepts of Marxism and Leninism by political commissars.

www.reuters.com

Putin recreated the old Political Officers. The Zampolit who insured the loyalty of the troops and the officers. This is proof of the lack of trust they have for the average soldier. And NCO’s come from the average soldiers. So trusting them is not possible.

While it is true that most Soviet military practices were drawn from the experience of the Czars. It is also true that those things never worked. The Russians were shown the Western Way. And they would not adapt.

 

[ESay]

I’m not forgetting it at all. The lies and corruption of the Czarist regime is what fertilized the ground for the revolution. The problem is that the new rulers were just as corrupt and lied even more than the old regime.

The problem isn’t just in the Soviet. However it is worth noting the rulers of today at the top were all KGB types. Those guys were true believers in Marxism. They had to have perfect political reliability to even be considered for those jobs.

Worse, they were all indoctrinated to believe that real power comes through strength and control.

The Russian Army of today still uses the same Officer Centric command structure. Yes. The American Army has Officers in charge. But NCO’s are the serious professionals that guide those officers. Especially the younger ones.

Look at it this way. The Platoon Leader. The young Lieutenant in his first assignment. He has a NCO with fifteen years of experience at his elbow guiding the youngster. In our Army anyway. The Company Commander has a twenty year veteran to guide him. And every command on up has a senior NCO to advise the Officer.

The Russians still don’t have the professional NCO core that the Western Armies have.

NCOs: America Has Them, China Wants Them, Russia is Struggling Without Them

Non-commissioned officers, long the “backbone” of the U.S. military, are proving even more crucial on modern battlefields.

www.defenseone.com

So if the young officer doesn’t know what should be done from his books, there just isn’t a professional there to advise him.

This is the way the Soviet Army operated. We were briefed on their military when I was in the Army training to fight them. The advantages of our system. The professional experience our people had. The years of experience the newest officer had at his fingertips to help him learn and avoids costly mistakes.

The Russians don’t. The reason is that to have a professional NCO corps in your army means you trust the Enlisted. Trusting the peasants is not a Russian trait.

There really is no difference between the Russian Army of today and the Soviet Army of Yesterday.

In Soviet echo, Putin gives Russian army a political wing

Vladimir Putin has created a new directorate inside the Russian army to promote patriotism, evoking memories of a Soviet practice that once saw soldiers taught the precepts of Marxism and Leninism by political commissars.

www.reuters.com

Putin recreated the old Political Officers. The Zampolit who insured the loyalty of the troops and the officers. This is proof of the lack of trust they have for the average soldier. And NCO’s come from the average soldiers. So trusting them is not possible.

While it is true that most Soviet military practices were drawn from the experience of the Czars. It is also true that those things never worked. The Russians were shown the Western Way. And they would not adapt

I agree with all that. The only thing I don't get is why you think the Putin regime will achieve their military goals in Ukraine.

This silly SMO has shown in what bad shape the Russian army really is, how their military command is inept and far from reality. Though, I can assume that even they can learn from their mistakes.

But reshaping and reforming the army and military complex will take maybe years. Without that, they can't make any significant advances in Ukraine.

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Is the Russian military showing restraint or are they just garbage ?

Holding back to not destroy their territory


I know the American woke trash army stinks but Russia ??

Having the daily plans and movements of all German units in WWII thanks to Ultra code breaking helped the USSR win the Eastern Front.

Today Russia face a Ukraine armed with state of the art US Intel capabilities. The only reason Ukraine has not won is that the WEF, Zelen$ky, Biden, US Military contractors and Congress are, once again, making fortunes from war.

 

[gipper]

I agree with all that. The only thing I don't get is why you think the Putin regime will achieve their military goals in Ukraine.

This silly SMO has shown in what bad shape the Russian army really is, how their military command is inept and far from reality. Though, I can assume that even they can learn from their mistakes.

But reshaping and reforming the army and military complex will take maybe years. Without that, they can't make any significant advances in Ukraine.

Good points made here. Will this be a forever war or will peace be found?

Arguably there may be some similarities between Russia-NATO now and Turkiye-Russia before March 2020: both sides are betting on some crucial military breakthrough on the battlefield before sitting at the negotiating table. The US is desperate for it: even the 20th century ‘Oracle’ Henry Kissinger is now saying that with China involved, there will be negotiations before the end of 2023.

Despite the urgency of the situation, Moscow does not appear to be in a hurry. Its key military strategy, as seen in Bakhmut and Artemyovsk, is to use a combination of the snail technique and the mincing machine. The ultimate goal is to demilitarize NATO as a whole rather than just Ukraine, and so far, it appears to be working brilliantly.

Russia is in it for the long haul, anticipating that one day the collective west will have an “Eureka!” moment and realize it is time to abandon the race.

Now let’s assume, by some divine intervention, that negotiations would start in a few months, with China involved. Moscow – and Beijing – both know they simply cannot trust anything the Hegemon says or signs.

Moreover, the crucial US tactical victory has already been conclusive: Russia sanctioned, demonized and separated from Europe, and the EU cemented as a de-industrialized, inconsequential lowly vassal.

Presupposing there is a negotiated peace, it will arguably resemble a Syria 2.0, with a massive “Idlib” equivalent right on Russia’s door, which is something entirely unacceptable to Moscow.

In practice, we will have Banderista terror outfits – the Slav version of ISIS – free to roam across the Russian Federation in car bombing and kamikaze drone sprees. The Hegemon will be able to switch the proxy war on and off at will, just as it continues to do in Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan with its terror cells.

The Security Council in Moscow knows very well, based on the Minsk farce acknowledged even by former German Chancellor Angela Merkel, that this will be Minsk on steroids: the Kiev regime, or rather the post-Zelensky regime will continue to be weaponized to death with brand new NATO gimmicks.

But then the other option – where there is nothing to negotiate – is equally ominous: a Forever War.
Bold gambits on the West Asian chessboard

 

[SavannahMann]

The Russian Army was holding back in the beginning....when they thought there was an opportunity for peace.

Not anymore.....they know the Collective West does not want peace.

Still, they are not going with 100%.

About the only thing the Russians haven’t used is WMD’s. Nukes and Chemical or Biological Weapons.

 

[braalian]

The Russian Army was holding back in the beginning....when they thought there was an opportunity for peace.

Not anymore.....they know the Collective West does not want peace.

Still, they are not going with 100%.

“When they thought there was an opportunity for peace”???

What the holy fuck are you talking about? They started the war. They’re the ones who invaded.

I think you’re about as smart as your avatar looks…..

 

[gipper]

“When they thought there was an opportunity for peace”???

What the holy fuck are you talking about? They started the war. They’re the ones who invaded.

I think you’re about as smart as your avatar looks…..

The war started in 2014.

 

[braalian]

The war started in 2014.

And Russia was the instigator and aggressor there, too.

 

[gipper]

And Russia was the instigator and aggressor there, too.

I suspect both sides were. You can’t shell the Donbass for years killing 14,000 people and expect no response.

 

[SavannahMann]

I suspect both sides were. You can’t shell the Donbass for years killing 14,000 people and expect no response.

Help me out. Let’s say Trump is elected in 2024. California declared independence. Would Trump be the aggressor if he sent the military in to restore control?

 

[gipper]

Help me out. Let’s say Trump is elected in 2024. California declared independence. Would Trump be the aggressor if he sent the military in to restore control?

Yes he would.

Do you think I’m a Trumper?

Now to answer your next question, yes Putin is an aggressor. However do you understand why he did what he did? It’s rather evident and he was certainly provoked. No? Yes?

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Help me out. Let’s say Trump is elected in 2024. California declared independence. Would Trump be the aggressor if he sent the military in to restore control?

He'd build a wall around CA and let Mexico annex it; win -win - win!!

 

[gipper]

I see dumb teach is at again. He’s so dumb he is incapable of debate using words, so he just pussies out with his pussy thumbs down. Words are too big for him.
Unkotare

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes he would.

Do you think I’m a Trumper?

Now to answer your next question, yes Putin is an aggressor. However do you understand why he did what he did? It’s rather evident and he was certainly provoked. No? Yes?

Whether or not you are a Trumper, you are clearly a Putinhead, with every post either urging Ukraine to surrender to Putin or trying to justify Putin's imperialist aggression against Ukraine.