Is The Key To France Youth?

[Ravi]

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

National Front’s tough stance on terrorism and the long memory of French Jews expelled from Arab lands make for a growing number of Jewish voters for a party once deemed taboo.

BY AMANDA BORSCHEL-DAN December 8, 2015, 4:51 pm 31


A veteran French immigrant to Israel was asked this week for her reaction to the victory of hardliner Marine Le Pen’s National Front party in Sunday’s first round of regional elections.

Nonplussed, she said that while no one she knows would go on record about voting for Le Pen, there are many French Jews who did. And, pointing to the years of low-flame persecution her family and friends have experienced in Paris suburbs, she asked, “Can you blame them?”

The confluence of a decade of attacks on Jews in France, November’s multi-pronged terrorism, and rampant unemployment, has created a growing swath of unexpected but receptive voters for Le Pen’s “France for the French” party — the Jews. ...

....Increasingly, some Jews — after years of being on the frontlines of France’s war on terror — are voting for the party that is seen to be toughest on security. For them, after 10 years of living in big city suburbs facing anti-Semitic insults and even physical attacks from their largely Muslim immigrant neighbors, one could say the party’s strong xenophobic stance has a certain je ne sais quoi...

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

Amazingly this nonplussed person has no name. I think it is safe to conclude BS.

You probably should, no point in thinking about it and having an aneurysm.

You are free to pretend that Jews support Nazis. I'm sure it gladdens Tilly.

 

[Coyote]

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

National Front’s tough stance on terrorism and the long memory of French Jews expelled from Arab lands make for a growing number of Jewish voters for a party once deemed taboo.

BY AMANDA BORSCHEL-DAN December 8, 2015, 4:51 pm 31


A veteran French immigrant to Israel was asked this week for her reaction to the victory of hardliner Marine Le Pen’s National Front party in Sunday’s first round of regional elections.

Nonplussed, she said that while no one she knows would go on record about voting for Le Pen, there are many French Jews who did. And, pointing to the years of low-flame persecution her family and friends have experienced in Paris suburbs, she asked, “Can you blame them?”

The confluence of a decade of attacks on Jews in France, November’s multi-pronged terrorism, and rampant unemployment, has created a growing swath of unexpected but receptive voters for Le Pen’s “France for the French” party — the Jews. ...

....Increasingly, some Jews — after years of being on the frontlines of France’s war on terror — are voting for the party that is seen to be toughest on security. For them, after 10 years of living in big city suburbs facing anti-Semitic insults and even physical attacks from their largely Muslim immigrant neighbors, one could say the party’s strong xenophobic stance has a certain je ne sais quoi...

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

You're still looking at a very small proportion of French Jews supporting NF (I think 14%?).

 

[Coyote]

The National Front Party is not a Nazi Party. The Nazi's represented an ideology far more extreme than the NF's. There is no eugenics, no concentration camps, no horrific human experiments on living human beings, no whole sale slaughter of people deemed "subhuman".

It's kind of like comparing modern poltiical figures with Hitler - it's an insult to the people who were his victims, and it shows a certain lack of historical understanding.

What the NF IS though, is an extreme rightwing party - a party that represents nationalism, populism, is anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, and despite a thin "pro-Jewish" veneer, it's also anti-semitic. Any party that rises on building popular anger, xenophobia, and creating scapegoats is inherently worrisome in my opinion. How would you feel if you were a law abiding French Muslim citizen, listening to this? Would you be afraid for your family, your children, your citizenship? I don't think these are good things.

Khizr Kahn gave a powerful speech yesterday, at the Democrat convention. He lost his son, a captain in the military, who was killed in heroic circumstances. We are all Americans - and what right does anyone have to deem one less than because of his religion or ethnicity?

 

[Tilly]

Things must be bad for Jews in France when some now see the Front National as a 'natural ally'. Pity the EU gvmnts have ridden roughshod over their people in their rush to flood their nations with immigrants who have been raised on antisemtism in many cases.

Strange Bedfellows: New Jewish Group in France Supports the National Front
By Emma Jacobs • 05/04/16 7:33am

...But the National Front’s long history of anti-Semitism has not stopped a new Jewish organization from forging an unlikely alliance with the increasingly anti-immigrant party. The Union of French Jewish Patriots will, in the words of its founder, Michel Thooris, “fight to improve the quality of life of French Jews and to avoid that France becomes nation that is judenrein—without Jews.”

This goal, he says, makes the National Front into a natural ally, given the party’s positions, such as the virtual ban on immigration and an end to open borders with other European Union member-states, which intend to stem an influx from the Middle East. Under the leadership of Mr. Le Pen’s daughter Marine Le Pen, the far-right political party has tried to distance itself from the elder Le Pen’s legacy of anti-semitism—last summer, Ms. Le Pen suspended her controversial father from the National Front.

Mr. Thooris, who criticizes the administration of François Hollande for enabling “the growth in power of radical Islamism and of terrorism,” serves as an advisor to Ms. Le Pen on police issues. He recently helped to organize an unprecedented visit of one of the party’s top brass, Louis Aliot, to Israel....

Strange Bedfellows: New Jewish Group in France Supports the National Front

 

[saveliberty]

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

National Front’s tough stance on terrorism and the long memory of French Jews expelled from Arab lands make for a growing number of Jewish voters for a party once deemed taboo.

BY AMANDA BORSCHEL-DAN December 8, 2015, 4:51 pm 31


A veteran French immigrant to Israel was asked this week for her reaction to the victory of hardliner Marine Le Pen’s National Front party in Sunday’s first round of regional elections.

Nonplussed, she said that while no one she knows would go on record about voting for Le Pen, there are many French Jews who did. And, pointing to the years of low-flame persecution her family and friends have experienced in Paris suburbs, she asked, “Can you blame them?”

The confluence of a decade of attacks on Jews in France, November’s multi-pronged terrorism, and rampant unemployment, has created a growing swath of unexpected but receptive voters for Le Pen’s “France for the French” party — the Jews. ...

....Increasingly, some Jews — after years of being on the frontlines of France’s war on terror — are voting for the party that is seen to be toughest on security. For them, after 10 years of living in big city suburbs facing anti-Semitic insults and even physical attacks from their largely Muslim immigrant neighbors, one could say the party’s strong xenophobic stance has a certain je ne sais quoi...

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

You're still looking at a very small proportion of French Jews supporting NF (I think 14%?).

How does that compare to say Blacks supporting the Republican Party?

Is it not understandable that people look to the person or party that offers the best solution to the biggest problems a voter faces? It certainly doesn't mean they can't change who they support when that issue is solved or mitigated. This thread can't seem to move beyond the terms Jew and Nazi.

 

[Tilly]

...While based in southwest France, the group plans to hold meetings and public forums throughout the country.Mr. Thooris said they also plan to meet with French Jews who have moved to Israel.

French Jews are in an increasingly precarious position. Aside from the hostage crisis at a kosher market last January and the 2012 massacre of three children and a rabbi at a Jewish day school in Toulouse, they suffer many small-scale bias crimes, including street assaults and vandalism of synagogues.

Earlier this year, the Jewish council of Marseille warned Jewish men to refrain from wearing kippot in the street to avoid becoming targets of violence. The number of French Jews emigrating to Israel more than doubled between 2013 and 2015..


Strange Bedfellows: New Jewish Group in France Supports the National Front

 

[Coyote]

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

National Front’s tough stance on terrorism and the long memory of French Jews expelled from Arab lands make for a growing number of Jewish voters for a party once deemed taboo.

BY AMANDA BORSCHEL-DAN December 8, 2015, 4:51 pm 31


A veteran French immigrant to Israel was asked this week for her reaction to the victory of hardliner Marine Le Pen’s National Front party in Sunday’s first round of regional elections.

Nonplussed, she said that while no one she knows would go on record about voting for Le Pen, there are many French Jews who did. And, pointing to the years of low-flame persecution her family and friends have experienced in Paris suburbs, she asked, “Can you blame them?”

The confluence of a decade of attacks on Jews in France, November’s multi-pronged terrorism, and rampant unemployment, has created a growing swath of unexpected but receptive voters for Le Pen’s “France for the French” party — the Jews. ...

....Increasingly, some Jews — after years of being on the frontlines of France’s war on terror — are voting for the party that is seen to be toughest on security. For them, after 10 years of living in big city suburbs facing anti-Semitic insults and even physical attacks from their largely Muslim immigrant neighbors, one could say the party’s strong xenophobic stance has a certain je ne sais quoi...

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

You're still looking at a very small proportion of French Jews supporting NF (I think 14%?).

How does that compare to say Blacks supporting the Republican Party?

Is it not understandable that people look to the person or party that offers the best solution to the biggest problems a voter faces? It certainly doesn't mean they can't change who they support when that issue is solved or mitigated. This thread can't seem to move beyond the terms Jew and Nazi.

I think it means (as one of the article I posted said) - there isn't exactly a monolithic "French Jewish Vote" - and that is not a bad thing. People vote issues rather than identity. NPR interviewed some Jews in a French village on why they supported NF, and it wasn't because of their anti-immigrant stance, or anti-Islamic stance - but more to do with protectionist trade policies and economy - issues that were important enough they overode the other things.

 

[Tilly]

He seems convinced.

....Mr. Thooris dismissed the idea that the party’s own longstanding reputation for antisemitism could prove a problem in attracting Jewish votes in next year’s presidential election, which Ms. Le Pen announced she will compete in. “When anti-Semites are detected within the National Front,” he said. “They are excluded by Marine Le Pen so things are clear and don’t present any particular difficulty...

... recent polling numbers suggest Jews, like other French voters, have become more receptive to the National Front’s message....


Strange Bedfellows: New Jewish Group in France Supports the National Front

 

[Coyote]

French National Front plagued by anti-Semitism

A recent study published by the Foundation for Political Innovation has dealt a blow to the legitimacy of France’s National Front, establishing a strong relationship between the NF and anti-Semitism in France. EurActiv France reports.

The study of anti-Semitism in French public opinion, published by the Foundation for Political Innovation (Fondapol) threatens to undermine attempts by the National Front to enter the French political mainstream. Anti-Semitism has little foothold in French society as a whole, but the study found a strong undercurrent of anti-Semitic feeling among the NF electorate.

“We can say that French society as a whole is relatively unaffected by anti-Semitic prejudice, with four major areas of exception: the National Front electorate, French Muslims, supporters of the Left Front and videos on the sites YouTube and Dailymotion, where anti-Semitism is more visible than in other media,” the director of Fondapol, Dominique Reynié, explained.

No integration for the NF

A sample of 1005 French citizens over the age of 16, and a further 575 people born into Muslim families, were surveyed for the study by the organisation IFOP.

The study was based on the observation that anti-Semitism accounts for over half the acts of racially motivated violence in France, while people of Jewish descent make up only around 1% of the French population. The authors arrived at the opposite conclusion to a 2004 study carried out by Jean-Christophe Rufin, which identified an inverse correlation between the extreme right and anti-Semitic feeling.

While 84% of those questioned thought that a French Jew was just as French as any other French citizen, the figure is 61% among NF supporters, and 91% among French Muslims. 53% of National Front voters would not be happy to vote for a Jewish President, compared to 21% of the overall population, and 22% would actively avoid having Jewish neighbours, compared to 6% of all French citizens.​

 

[saveliberty]

So...some of France's youth is seeing a benefit to para-military or military service to defend their country. Instead of letting Tommy the Troll Tool get you sidetracked with the Nazi/Jew thing, maybe address how the youth movement is helpful or what might be a better outlet.

 

[StLucieBengal]

Well, you might have a point. Things change. Boom, bust. Civilizations end. New one shine one and take us to a better place. I don't see how a authoritarian theocratic hate group like Islam leading us anywhere but to a new dark age or self extinguishment. How is Islam naming your life better, Tommy? Will it make you better with beheadings and fear and sharia law?

Its not Islam is it ? These monsters kill more Muslims than Christians. They are an enemy of civilisation.

Please don't be cloying or condescending. Exactly why defend Muslims? An ideology that destroys its own, like Jupiter eating it's own children, why make them seem victims and give them an aura of victimhood ? They would destroy THEMSELVES. They should destroy themselves, it's hubris. Leave the west out of it. Don't enable them and their broken mentality.

Muslims are good people.There is a tiny minority that is sick. The majority should not be oppressed for the actions of a few. You are not responsible for the actions of other christians so why should muslims be responsible for the actions of other muslims ?

I am sure there where a few good Nazis too, but they didn't stop the bad Nazis from bombing Coventry. After awhile, good muslims and the bad ones, does it matter? Evil is when good men do NOTHING to stop the bad ones. And Islam is rife with "good" people.

Ok, so what did you personally do about the Charleston church massacre ? Or Oklahoma ? Or Orlando ?

Made our feelings known at the mosque that radicalized him. His mosque was not far from where I live.

We don't need that poison in our county.

 

[Tilly]

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

National Front’s tough stance on terrorism and the long memory of French Jews expelled from Arab lands make for a growing number of Jewish voters for a party once deemed taboo.

BY AMANDA BORSCHEL-DAN December 8, 2015, 4:51 pm 31


A veteran French immigrant to Israel was asked this week for her reaction to the victory of hardliner Marine Le Pen’s National Front party in Sunday’s first round of regional elections.

Nonplussed, she said that while no one she knows would go on record about voting for Le Pen, there are many French Jews who did. And, pointing to the years of low-flame persecution her family and friends have experienced in Paris suburbs, she asked, “Can you blame them?”

The confluence of a decade of attacks on Jews in France, November’s multi-pronged terrorism, and rampant unemployment, has created a growing swath of unexpected but receptive voters for Le Pen’s “France for the French” party — the Jews. ...

....Increasingly, some Jews — after years of being on the frontlines of France’s war on terror — are voting for the party that is seen to be toughest on security. For them, after 10 years of living in big city suburbs facing anti-Semitic insults and even physical attacks from their largely Muslim immigrant neighbors, one could say the party’s strong xenophobic stance has a certain je ne sais quoi...

As French Jews vote for Le Pen, a case of the enemy of my enemy?

You're still looking at a very small proportion of French Jews supporting NF (I think 14%?).

How does that compare to say Blacks supporting the Republican Party?

Is it not understandable that people look to the person or party that offers the best solution to the biggest problems a voter faces? It certainly doesn't mean they can't change who they support when that issue is solved or mitigated. This thread can't seem to move beyond the terms Jew and Nazi.

Well the tainted one was the first to go Godwin, stating the Le Pens are Nazis - and Coyote 'agreed' that comment, and raised the antisemitism and holocaust denial associated with them.
Anyway, - so I followed up with how it has been dreadful for Jews in France and Europe for some time now, how many are leaving for Israel, and how some have decided the bigger threat to them right now is not the allegedly Nazi Le Pens or Front National - but migrants brought in from countries where antisemitism and holocaust denial even features in their regular tv viewing - programmes' incidentally, that they watch in Europe too.
Oh, and that some French Jews, and a French Jewish organisation are now voting for the Front National. I agree, we seem to have wandered from the OP somewhat, but that's what seems to happen when people go Godwin.

 

[StLucieBengal]

Europe has lost religion period. Interesting how their general decline follows.

Everyone loses religion until they need it .... This is how revivals happen.

 

[Coyote]

Another "you're either with us or against us" polarity as the reason for joining paramilitaries?

Marine Le Pen’s niece enrols in the ARMY as she calls on France to 'kill Islamism'
"You are with us and against Islamism, or you are against us and for Islamism

 

[Coyote]

Its not Islam is it ? These monsters kill more Muslims than Christians. They are an enemy of civilisation.

Please don't be cloying or condescending. Exactly why defend Muslims? An ideology that destroys its own, like Jupiter eating it's own children, why make them seem victims and give them an aura of victimhood ? They would destroy THEMSELVES. They should destroy themselves, it's hubris. Leave the west out of it. Don't enable them and their broken mentality.

Muslims are good people.There is a tiny minority that is sick. The majority should not be oppressed for the actions of a few. You are not responsible for the actions of other christians so why should muslims be responsible for the actions of other muslims ?

I am sure there where a few good Nazis too, but they didn't stop the bad Nazis from bombing Coventry. After awhile, good muslims and the bad ones, does it matter? Evil is when good men do NOTHING to stop the bad ones. And Islam is rife with "good" people.

Ok, so what did you personally do about the Charleston church massacre ? Or Oklahoma ? Or Orlando ?

Made our feelings known at the mosque that radicalized him. His mosque was not far from where I live.

We don't need that poison in our county.

He wasn't radicalized at that mosque.

 

[StLucieBengal]

Marine LaPen and the National Front Party....lots of disturbing stuff in this article.

My third note concerns Chauprade, who is said by “Marine” to be a very possible Minister of Foreign Affairs. “The official version given by the U.S. authorities on Sept. 11 is not satisfying,” he said to me. “I believe that Islamic fundamentalism is used or even created by a secret force, a deep state hidden inside of the American state.” Chauprade never goes as far as naming this secret force as Jewish. But, when criticized in France for defending his conspiracy theory (after the release of a book on the subject and losing a teaching job at the prestigious Ecole Militaire as a consequence), he did mention “the Zionists” among the mysterious people who were trying to weaken him...

That article is a bunch about her dad. Please find anything where marine Le pen is advocating for anything scary....

Leave the EU isn't scary.

Leave the Euro isn't scary

Limit immigration isn't scary

All she advocates for is French citizens. Why should any of us care if she loves America? I hope she loves France over America.

 

[StLucieBengal]

Please don't be cloying or condescending. Exactly why defend Muslims? An ideology that destroys its own, like Jupiter eating it's own children, why make them seem victims and give them an aura of victimhood ? They would destroy THEMSELVES. They should destroy themselves, it's hubris. Leave the west out of it. Don't enable them and their broken mentality.

Muslims are good people.There is a tiny minority that is sick. The majority should not be oppressed for the actions of a few. You are not responsible for the actions of other christians so why should muslims be responsible for the actions of other muslims ?

I am sure there where a few good Nazis too, but they didn't stop the bad Nazis from bombing Coventry. After awhile, good muslims and the bad ones, does it matter? Evil is when good men do NOTHING to stop the bad ones. And Islam is rife with "good" people.

Ok, so what did you personally do about the Charleston church massacre ? Or Oklahoma ? Or Orlando ?

Made our feelings known at the mosque that radicalized him. His mosque was not far from where I live.

We don't need that poison in our county.

He wasn't radicalized at that mosque.

Yeah keep telling yourself that....

 

[Tilly]

Marion Le Pen:

"You are with us and against Islamism, or you are against us and for Islamism."

Fairy nuff:

Islamism
ˈɪzləmɪz(ə)m,ˈɪs-/
noun
noun: Islamism; noun: Islamicism

Islamic militancy or fundamentalism.

It will be interesting to see if this encourages others to sign up.

 

[Ravi]

The National Front Party is not a Nazi Party. The Nazi's represented an ideology far more extreme than the NF's. There is no eugenics, no concentration camps, no horrific human experiments on living human beings, no whole sale slaughter of people deemed "subhuman".

It's kind of like comparing modern poltiical figures with Hitler - it's an insult to the people who were his victims, and it shows a certain lack of historical understanding.

What the NF IS though, is an extreme rightwing party - a party that represents nationalism, populism, is anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, and despite a thin "pro-Jewish" veneer, it's also anti-semitic. Any party that rises on building popular anger, xenophobia, and creating scapegoats is inherently worrisome in my opinion. How would you feel if you were a law abiding French Muslim citizen, listening to this? Would you be afraid for your family, your children, your citizenship? I don't think these are good things.

Khizr Kahn gave a powerful speech yesterday, at the Democrat convention. He lost his son, a captain in the military, who was killed in heroic circumstances. We are all Americans - and what right does anyone have to deem one less than because of his religion or ethnicity?

You can say that but in reality they are no different than the Nazis. They just don't happen to be in power.

 

[StLucieBengal]

The National Front Party is not a Nazi Party. The Nazi's represented an ideology far more extreme than the NF's. There is no eugenics, no concentration camps, no horrific human experiments on living human beings, no whole sale slaughter of people deemed "subhuman".

It's kind of like comparing modern poltiical figures with Hitler - it's an insult to the people who were his victims, and it shows a certain lack of historical understanding.

What the NF IS though, is an extreme rightwing party - a party that represents nationalism, populism, is anti-immigrant, anti-Muslim, and despite a thin "pro-Jewish" veneer, it's also anti-semitic. Any party that rises on building popular anger, xenophobia, and creating scapegoats is inherently worrisome in my opinion. How would you feel if you were a law abiding French Muslim citizen, listening to this? Would you be afraid for your family, your children, your citizenship? I don't think these are good things.

Khizr Kahn gave a powerful speech yesterday, at the Democrat convention. He lost his son, a captain in the military, who was killed in heroic circumstances. We are all Americans - and what right does anyone have to deem one less than because of his religion or ethnicity?

You can say that but in reality they are no different than the Nazis. They just don't happen to be in power.

Please demonstrate the similarities in the nazi party platform back in the day and National Front today?