Is it time for Israel to re-take Gaza?

[rylah]

I remember reading a post here in the forum suggesting that "Western Gaza has to take over Eastern Gaza"...

 

[admonit]

You the jews made Gaza a humanitarian concern. Don't blame them.

Not blaming anyone. Asking who is going to fix it.

Those who created the problem - "the international community".

 

[Shusha]

I am sick of you jews. I find you pathetic, you screaming anti-Semitism when someone doesn't worship you freaks.

Oh wow. Interesting what comes out of the woodwork.

Let's try this again. Penny, my OP suggests that Israel has the ability to solve what many consider to be a serious humanitarian crisis in Gaza. She can provide clean water, electricity, improved health care, technology, economic trade. As pointed out, she is in no way obliged to provide this. But she can. The question on the table is: Should she? More specifically, the question on the table is: If Israel can provide the tools and necessities to end the humanitarian crises in Gaza BUT at the expense of Gaza's self-determination -- should she?

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Is it time for Israel to re-take Gaza?
※→ Shusha, Penelope, et al,

For the Israelis (I think) they would have to do a Risk Analysis from four aspects:

• Militarily:
• Economically:
• Politically:
• Probability of Success:​

You the jews made Gaza a humanitarian concern. Don't blame them.

Not blaming anyone. Asking who is going to fix it.

You crooks.

So you are agreeing that Israel should take over Gaza. Yes?

(COMMENT)

In very broad (BROAD) brush strokes, this would be the things that Israel, at a minimum, are going to have to study, consider --- have set aside resources for and the military and political will to carry through.

√ Militarily:

• Cost of continued containment and status quo.
• Cost of incursion and new high bellegerent effective control.
• Military Advantage of current position versus a takeover position.​

√ Economically:

• Cost of rebuilding the Gazan Infrastructure. Including the cost of destruction and rebuild of critical facilities.
• Cost to the basic domestic Israeli economy for supporting unproductive Gazans:

■ Retirement/Special Icomefor the poor.
■ Medical costs and medical facility support.
■ Food/Pantry Programs.
■ Education and retraining (hard skill, blue collar, scientific and tecnical).​

• Small and Medium Business start-up Programs.​

√ Politically:

• World International Consequences.
• Regional Consequences.
• Domestic Play.​

√ Probability of Success:

• Short term, Gazans is making steady progress econlically, meeting political milestones,
building democratic institutions, and standing up security forces.
• Medium term, Gazans providing its own security, and a fully on its way to achieving its economic potential.
• Longer term, the Gaza Strip becomes peaceful well integrated into the international community.​

Unless the Israelis want a repeat of the consequences and results of the 2005 unilateral to withdraw, THEN, it is going to have to plan for programs in increments of a decade or more.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Shusha]

I remember reading a post here in the forum suggesting that "Western Gaza has to take over Eastern Gaza"...

Fair point.

 

[Shusha]

You the jews made Gaza a humanitarian concern. Don't blame them.

Not blaming anyone. Asking who is going to fix it.

Those who created the problem - "the international community".

I agree in principle. Not sure how we are going to enforce that.

 

[Shusha]

RE: Is it time for Israel to re-take Gaza?
※→ Shusha, Penelope, et al,

For the Israelis (I think) they would have to do a Risk Analysis from four aspects:

• Militarily:
• Economically:
• Politically:
• Probability of Success:​

You the jews made Gaza a humanitarian concern. Don't blame them.

Not blaming anyone. Asking who is going to fix it.

You crooks.

So you are agreeing that Israel should take over Gaza. Yes?

(COMMENT)

In very broad (BROAD) brush strokes, this would be the things that Israel, at a minimum, are going to have to study, consider --- have set aside resources for and the military and political will to carry through.

√ Militarily:

• Cost of continued containment and status quo.
• Cost of incursion and new high bellegerent effective control.
• Military Advantage of current position versus a takeover position.​

√ Economically:

• Cost of rebuilding the Gazan Infrastructure. Including the cost of destruction and rebuild of critical facilities.
• Cost to the basic domestic Israeli economy for supporting unproductive Gazans:

■ Retirement/Special Icomefor the poor.
■ Medical costs and medical facility support.
■ Food/Pantry Programs.
■ Education and retraining (hard skill, blue collar, scientific and tecnical).​

• Small and Medium Business start-up Programs.​

√ Politically:

• World International Consequences.
• Regional Consequences.
• Domestic Play.​

√ Probability of Success:

• Short term, Gazans is making steady progress econlically, meeting political milestones,
building democratic institutions, and standing up security forces.
• Medium term, Gazans providing its own security, and a fully on its way to achieving its economic potential.
• Longer term, the Gaza Strip becomes peaceful well integrated into the international community.​

Unless the Israelis want a repeat of the consequences and results of the 2005 unilateral to withdraw, THEN, it is going to have to plan for programs in increments of a decade or more.

Most Respectfully,
R

Thank you for your thoughtful, intelligent reply. Which of those on your list do you think would be the most challenging for Israel? The probability of success seems to me the most difficult to judge. And I think the regional response is most key to success. But I've been known to be somewhat -- ahem -- optimistic.

 

[rylah]

The goal is humanitarian crisis in certain Gazan neighborhoods,
or the Gaza-Israel conflict in whole?

RoccoR posted a list of points to consider, I still don't see any benefit for Israel.
I'm open to read about any suggestions looking long-term.

Here're 3 more suggestions:

1. Let Iran take Gaza over.
2. Egypt police of Gaza.
3. UAE.

1st is to destroy, 2nd to forget about it for a while, 3rd sounds like an "out of this world" idea, but might be a potential uplift for the entire region.

 

[Hossfly]

Yes, I'm being provocative. (I'm bored with all the ridiculous discussion of people trying to demonize Israel for defending her borders from violent rioters talking about marching to Jerusalem ripping the hearts out of Jews. Ugh.)

So let's talk about the future of Gaza.

There are real humanitarian concerns here. There are real security concerns here. Neither are being addressed by Hamas or the citizens of Gaza. Can Israel step in? Should Israel step in?

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that Israel incorporate Gaza into Israel. My thinking is more that if everyone is saying Israel is occupying Gaza anyway -- why doesn't she actually go back to occupying it? Temporarily. Preferrably with the support of the at least some of the Gazan people. Possibly as a Mandate overseeing an economic revival, a re-building of infrastructure, a reduction in violence and a re-education of the next generation.

Is it possible for Israel to offer some carrots here? In the form of clean water, improved medical care, economic trade?

I am sick of you jews. I find you pathetic, you screaming anti-Semitism when someone doesn't worship you freaks. you are either so liberal that you steal and well like Weinstein or you are orthodox and still do the sucking circumcision.

Its well known you orthodox jews are the baby boom and welfare capital of the US.

Is it time to retake Gaza, news flash, you never had Gaza.

Quit bitching and complaining and get it fixed in your head that God is behind it all as it is his purpose, but don't make the mistake of blaming Him for anything.

 

[RoccoR]

RE: Is it time for Israel to re-take Gaza?
※→ Shusha, Penelope, et al,

I think each has a show-stopping consequence that would render any significant investment, into the Gaza Strip, too risky to attempt.

Which of those on your list do you think would be the most challenging for Israel?

(COMMENT)

As we all know, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (in all their various manifestations) are prone to suicide. And so, in any of the supporting initiatives to drag the Gazans into the 21st Century as a productive culture, there is going to be elements that will be willing to spend their own life to disrupt. But that is only part of the equation.

The Regional Political Influences may not even allow such an effort. So paranoid are some of these powers, in the Arab world, that external political pressures and criticisms, the Israelis will not be able to sift the wheat from the chaff. That failure will lead to another, which will lead to yet another, and another, until the entire project is in cascade failure.

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[IsaacNewton]

Yes, I'm being provocative. (I'm bored with all the ridiculous discussion of people trying to demonize Israel for defending her borders from violent rioters talking about marching to Jerusalem ripping the hearts out of Jews. Ugh.)

So let's talk about the future of Gaza.

There are real humanitarian concerns here. There are real security concerns here. Neither are being addressed by Hamas or the citizens of Gaza. Can Israel step in? Should Israel step in?

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that Israel incorporate Gaza into Israel. My thinking is more that if everyone is saying Israel is occupying Gaza anyway -- why doesn't she actually go back to occupying it? Temporarily. Preferrably with the support of the at least some of the Gazan people. Possibly as a Mandate overseeing an economic revival, a re-building of infrastructure, a reduction in violence and a re-education of the next generation.

Is it possible for Israel to offer some carrots here? In the form of clean water, improved medical care, economic trade?

Is it time for Russia to retake Eastern Europe. Is it time for Iraq to take Kuwait again. Is it time for Argentina to retake the Falklands.

The idiocy of the knuckledraggers.

 

[Hollie]

RE: Is it time for Israel to re-take Gaza?
※→ Shusha, Penelope, et al,

I think each has a show-stopping consequence that would render any significant investment, into the Gaza Strip, too risky to attempt.

Which of those on your list do you think would be the most challenging for Israel?

(COMMENT)

As we all know, the Hostile Arab Palestinians (in all their various manifestations) are prone to suicide. And so, in any of the supporting initiatives to drag the Gazans into the 21st Century as a productive culture, there is going to be elements that will be willing to spend their own life to disrupt. But that is only part of the equation.

The Regional Political Influences may not even allow such an effort. So paranoid are some of these powers, in the Arab world, that external political pressures and criticisms, the Israelis will not be able to sift the wheat from the chaff. That failure will lead to another, which will lead to yet another, and another, until the entire project is in cascade failure.

Most Respectfully,
R

I think a cascading failure is a near certainty. First, If we drill down on societal structure of the Islamic Middle East, we see those societies are subservient to the all-consuming, totalitarian politico-religious ideology of Islam. What strikes me is just how fiercely resistant that politico-religious ideology actually is to any sort of revision or reform. This is its most intractable attribute toward compatibility with the rest of the modern, relevant first world. If we listen to so many of islam's Sheiks, Emirs, Mullocrats and Clerics, they tell us in clear and uncompromising terms that islam cannot be reformed. They also tell us in no uncertain terms that Islamism is to be the only legitimate law for all of mankind, at all times and in all places. By words and actions, Moslems tell us that their war on the part of humanity not Islamic or subservient to Islamism and which began when the barbarians spilled out of Peninsula after the death of the religions inventor is as relevant now as it was in the 7th century.

 

[Hollie]

Yes, I'm being provocative. (I'm bored with all the ridiculous discussion of people trying to demonize Israel for defending her borders from violent rioters talking about marching to Jerusalem ripping the hearts out of Jews. Ugh.)

So let's talk about the future of Gaza.

There are real humanitarian concerns here. There are real security concerns here. Neither are being addressed by Hamas or the citizens of Gaza. Can Israel step in? Should Israel step in?

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that Israel incorporate Gaza into Israel. My thinking is more that if everyone is saying Israel is occupying Gaza anyway -- why doesn't she actually go back to occupying it? Temporarily. Preferrably with the support of the at least some of the Gazan people. Possibly as a Mandate overseeing an economic revival, a re-building of infrastructure, a reduction in violence and a re-education of the next generation.

Is it possible for Israel to offer some carrots here? In the form of clean water, improved medical care, economic trade?

Is it time for Russia to retake Eastern Europe. Is it time for Iraq to take Kuwait again. Is it time for Argentina to retake the Falklands.

The idiocy of the knuckledraggers.

Although, you might want to acknowledge that none of your comparisons relate a fascist, virulently hostile politico religious ideology with a written manifesto calling for the annihilation of a competing religious group.

 

[Kondor3]

Is it possible for Israel to offer some carrots here? In the form of clean water, improved medical care, economic trade?

No. That is like buying a purse for a spouse with two black eyes. You are dealing with people (Muslims) who speak about the Crusades like last week's football match.

Well, yeah, that was the pinnacle of their Glory Days... long ago, in a galaxy far, far away.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Yes, I'm being provocative. (I'm bored with all the ridiculous discussion of people trying to demonize Israel for defending her borders from violent rioters talking about marching to Jerusalem ripping the hearts out of Jews. Ugh.)

So let's talk about the future of Gaza.

There are real humanitarian concerns here. There are real security concerns here. Neither are being addressed by Hamas or the citizens of Gaza. Can Israel step in? Should Israel step in?

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that Israel incorporate Gaza into Israel. My thinking is more that if everyone is saying Israel is occupying Gaza anyway -- why doesn't she actually go back to occupying it? Temporarily. Preferrably with the support of the at least some of the Gazan people. Possibly as a Mandate overseeing an economic revival, a re-building of infrastructure, a reduction in violence and a re-education of the next generation.

Is it possible for Israel to offer some carrots here? In the form of clean water, improved medical care, economic trade?

If I remember correctly, after Israel's 2014 turkey shoot in Gaza, there was a ceasefire that was supposed to be followed by a long term truce and billions in reconstruction.

What happened to that?

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yes, I'm being provocative. (I'm bored with all the ridiculous discussion of people trying to demonize Israel for defending her borders from violent rioters talking about marching to Jerusalem ripping the hearts out of Jews. Ugh.)

So let's talk about the future of Gaza.

There are real humanitarian concerns here. There are real security concerns here. Neither are being addressed by Hamas or the citizens of Gaza. Can Israel step in? Should Israel step in?

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that Israel incorporate Gaza into Israel. My thinking is more that if everyone is saying Israel is occupying Gaza anyway -- why doesn't she actually go back to occupying it? Temporarily. Preferrably with the support of the at least some of the Gazan people. Possibly as a Mandate overseeing an economic revival, a re-building of infrastructure, a reduction in violence and a re-education of the next generation.

Is it possible for Israel to offer some carrots here? In the form of clean water, improved medical care, economic trade?

If I remember correctly, after Israel's 2014 turkey shoot in Gaza, there was a ceasefire that was supposed to be followed by a long term truce and billions in reconstruction.

What happened to that?

Ask all the Arab and other countries what happened to the "Billions" they promised.

Next, ask Hamas where the money they did manage to get is stashed.

Next, Look at all the weapons, etc Hamas has been able to buy with Iran's money.

Long term truce is for those who are not out to destroy a sovereign country and kill all of its people.

Muslims do not know the meaning of "Long Term truce"

 

[P F Tinmore]

Yes, I'm being provocative. (I'm bored with all the ridiculous discussion of people trying to demonize Israel for defending her borders from violent rioters talking about marching to Jerusalem ripping the hearts out of Jews. Ugh.)

So let's talk about the future of Gaza.

There are real humanitarian concerns here. There are real security concerns here. Neither are being addressed by Hamas or the citizens of Gaza. Can Israel step in? Should Israel step in?

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that Israel incorporate Gaza into Israel. My thinking is more that if everyone is saying Israel is occupying Gaza anyway -- why doesn't she actually go back to occupying it? Temporarily. Preferrably with the support of the at least some of the Gazan people. Possibly as a Mandate overseeing an economic revival, a re-building of infrastructure, a reduction in violence and a re-education of the next generation.

Is it possible for Israel to offer some carrots here? In the form of clean water, improved medical care, economic trade?

If I remember correctly, after Israel's 2014 turkey shoot in Gaza, there was a ceasefire that was supposed to be followed by a long term truce and billions in reconstruction.

What happened to that?

Ask all the Arab and other countries what happened to the "Billions" they promised.

Next, ask Hamas where the money they did manage to get is stashed.

Next, Look at all the weapons, etc Hamas has been able to buy with Iran's money.

Long term truce is for those who are not out to destroy a sovereign country and kill all of its people.

Muslims do not know the meaning of "Long Term truce"

Hogwash, Hamas always honored ceasefires. It was Israel who always violated them.

 

[Sixties Fan]

Yes, I'm being provocative. (I'm bored with all the ridiculous discussion of people trying to demonize Israel for defending her borders from violent rioters talking about marching to Jerusalem ripping the hearts out of Jews. Ugh.)

So let's talk about the future of Gaza.

There are real humanitarian concerns here. There are real security concerns here. Neither are being addressed by Hamas or the citizens of Gaza. Can Israel step in? Should Israel step in?

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that Israel incorporate Gaza into Israel. My thinking is more that if everyone is saying Israel is occupying Gaza anyway -- why doesn't she actually go back to occupying it? Temporarily. Preferrably with the support of the at least some of the Gazan people. Possibly as a Mandate overseeing an economic revival, a re-building of infrastructure, a reduction in violence and a re-education of the next generation.

Is it possible for Israel to offer some carrots here? In the form of clean water, improved medical care, economic trade?

If I remember correctly, after Israel's 2014 turkey shoot in Gaza, there was a ceasefire that was supposed to be followed by a long term truce and billions in reconstruction.

What happened to that?

Ask all the Arab and other countries what happened to the "Billions" they promised.

Next, ask Hamas where the money they did manage to get is stashed.

Next, Look at all the weapons, etc Hamas has been able to buy with Iran's money.

Long term truce is for those who are not out to destroy a sovereign country and kill all of its people.

Muslims do not know the meaning of "Long Term truce"

Hogwash, Hamas always honored ceasefires. It was Israel who always violated them.

Sure, Hamas honored the ceasefires just as their Warlord in the 7th century did.

And we all know how that history went.

Time to put an end to Hamas and all the terrorists in Gaza.

Free Gaza from Terrorism and let the people be free!!!!

 

[RoccoR]

RE Is it time for Israel to re-take Gaza?
※→ Sixties Fan, et al,

As for how very much I would like to say this posting is a , I know that Israel (nor any or Israels advocates or allies) is really going to put that crutch away.

1) Get rid of UNWRA. The "refugee" issue must be put to rest.

(COMMENT)

In order for the Arab Palestinian to keep and perpetuate the status of "Refugee," the two foundational principles that must remain intact are:

• The Inheritance Rule.
• The Citizenship Rule.​

Both of these rules are so fundamental to the capture of Middle East Peace, that any reform would undermine the ability for mediators and peace brokers, and erode confidence between the all the complaints and Israel (the principle parties to the negotiations for peace).

Most Respectfully,
R

 

[Coyote]

Yes, I'm being provocative. (I'm bored with all the ridiculous discussion of people trying to demonize Israel for defending her borders from violent rioters talking about marching to Jerusalem ripping the hearts out of Jews. Ugh.)

So let's talk about the future of Gaza.

There are real humanitarian concerns here. There are real security concerns here. Neither are being addressed by Hamas or the citizens of Gaza. Can Israel step in? Should Israel step in?

Now, I'm not necessarily suggesting that Israel incorporate Gaza into Israel. My thinking is more that if everyone is saying Israel is occupying Gaza anyway -- why doesn't she actually go back to occupying it? Temporarily. Preferrably with the support of the at least some of the Gazan people. Possibly as a Mandate overseeing an economic revival, a re-building of infrastructure, a reduction in violence and a re-education of the next generation.

Is it possible for Israel to offer some carrots here? In the form of clean water, improved medical care, economic trade?

Nothing else is working...they would need to offer a long term plan...with a goal at the end. And get rid of Hamas.