Tell us what the peasant are going to get when Kamala takes office. Tell us a huge tax cut for all of the working class/ fixed income/social security people. That ain't happening. They lie to your face...the backstabbers. She is terrible. She won't say what she will do because another screwing is coming.
Is it time for a legitimate third party?
- Thread starter LibertyKid
- Start date
jc456
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2013
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cyber ego, I will use that now, thanks,
jc456
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2013
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I'd really like to hear this tax cut she keeps proposing, what is it? Hey, do you demofks in here know the Trump tax cut cut every tax bracket so everyone actually did get a tax cut including middle class? Can any of you explain fair share since everyone already did get one?
Do you think having more than two parties caused the dysfunction? How?
Curried Goats
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2021
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What even makes it yours house though? The force of law? That appears to be a circular argument. The force of law gives you the right to use force against others for resisting your initial act of force.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
It's not an overgeneralization. Back in the bad old days when I voted for Reagan, we used to laugh at the Libertardians as being a bit silly with their delusion that we could get along fine without government.
So instead, the Koch Brothers took their Ayn Rand clown show into the GOP, and unfortunately, the GOP Has been worse for it.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
That's easy.
Just look at Israel. I mean, besides being an apartheid state, the fact that they have to cobble together governments of fringe parties to get a majority in the Knessett makes the country largely ungovernable.
H
Harpy Eagle
Guest
Any more so than the US? Has there been much governing going on the last couple of years?
jc456
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2013
- 150,683
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what makes your car yours then?
I didn't ask you.
Curried Goats
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2021
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The force of law. Ownership is a legal concept.
jc456
Diamond Member
- Dec 18, 2013
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Why do you supposed that is?
Curried Goats
Diamond Member
- Aug 28, 2021
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I just told you. Force.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Last couple of years, one of our major parties turned into a cult.
Hopefully, it will come to its senses when Trump is gone.
H
Harpy Eagle
Guest
From where I stand both have.
JoeB131
Diamond Member
Well, then you are an idiot, with no observational skills.
LibertyKid
Platinum Member
- May 26, 2021
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- Thread starter
- #437
Libertarians don't believe in "no government'. They believe that the constitution provides the rights and liberties that define the role in the government which is very limited.
Point out one thing in the following platform you're against: I know it's a long read. Pick one out and focus on that one topic.
Platform Committee Application - Libertarian Party
The Libertarian National Committee (LNC) is seeking applicants to serve on the Platform Committee for the May 21-25, 2020 national convention in Austin, Texas. The LNC expects to make these appointments at its November meeting. The LNC appoints 5 out of the 20 Platform Committee members as well...
www.lp.org
1.0 Personal Liberty
Individuals are inherently free to make choices for themselves and must accept responsibility for the consequences of the choices they make. Our support of an individual’s right to make choices in life does not mean that we necessarily approve or disapprove of those choices. No individual, group, or government may rightly initiate force against any other individual, group, or government. Libertarians reject the notion that groups have inherent rights. We support the rights of the smallest minority, the individual.1.1 Self-Ownership
Individuals own their bodies and have rights over them that other individuals, groups, and governments may not violate. Individuals have the freedom and responsibility to decide what they knowingly and voluntarily consume, and what risks they accept to their own health, finances, safety, or life.
1.2 Expression and Communication
We support full freedom of expression and oppose government censorship, regulation, or control of communications media and technology. Language that is perceived to be offensive to certain groups or individuals is not a cause for any legal action. Speech that is not literally a threat of aggression or violence is not in itself aggression or violence and can never be used to justify aggression or violence. Individuals are responsible for their own reactions to speech. We favor the freedom to engage in or abstain from any religious activities that do not violate the rights of others. We oppose government actions that either aid or attack any religion.
1.3 Privacy
Libertarians advocate individual privacy and government transparency. We are committed to ending government’s practice of spying on everyone. We support the rights recognized by the Fourth Amendment to be secure in our persons, homes, property, and communications. Protection from unreasonable search and seizure should include records held by third parties, such as email, medical, and library records.
1.4 Personal Relationships
Sexual orientation, preference, gender, or gender identity should have no impact on the government’s treatment of individuals, such as in current marriage, child custody, adoption, immigration, or military service laws. Government does not have the authority to define, promote, license, or restrict personal relationships, regardless of the number of participants. Consenting adults should be free to choose their own sexual practices and personal relationships. Until such time as the government stops its illegitimate practice of marriage licensing, such licenses must be granted to all consenting adults who apply.
1.5 Parental Rights
Parents, or other guardians, have the right to raise their children according to their own standards and beliefs, provided that the rights of children to be free from abuse and neglect are also protected.
1.6 Adult Rights and Responsibilities
Once individuals are presumed to have adequate judgment to vote and serve on a jury or in the military, they should also be presumed to have sufficient judgment to decide their own purchase and use of alcohol, tobacco, firearms, cannabis, and engage in other activities currently restricted by government due to age.
1.7 Crime and Justice
Government force must be limited to the protection of the rights of individuals to life, liberty, and property, and governments must never be permitted to violate these rights. Laws should be limited in their application to violations of the rights of others through force or fraud, or to deliberate actions that place others involuntarily at significant risk of harm. Therefore, we favor the repeal of all laws creating “crimes” without victims, such as gambling, the use of drugs for medicinal or recreational purposes, and consensual transactions involving sexual services. We support restitution to the victim to the fullest degree possible at the expense of the criminal or the negligent wrongdoer. The constitutional rights of the criminally accused, including due process, a speedy trial, legal counsel, trial by jury, and the legal presumption of innocence until proven guilty, must be preserved. We assert the common-law right of juries to judge not only the facts but also the justice of the law. We oppose the prosecutorial practice of “over-charging” in criminal prosecutions so as to avoid jury trials by intimidating defendants into accepting plea bargains. Additionally, we support the abolition of qualified immunity so that law enforcement and prosecutors would be held legally accountable for misconduct that leads to wrongful convictions or other acts of injustice.
1.8 Death Penalty
We oppose the administration of the death penalty by the state.
1.9 Self-Defense
The only legitimate use of force is in defense of individual rights — life, liberty, and justly acquired property — against aggression. This right inheres in the individual, who may agree to be aided by any other individual or group. We affirm the individual right recognized by the Second Amendment to keep and bear arms, and oppose the prosecution of individuals for exercising their rights of self-defense. Private property owners should be free to establish their own conditions regarding the presence of personal defense weapons on their own property. We oppose all laws at any level of government restricting, registering, or monitoring the ownership, manufacture, or transfer of firearms, ammunition, or firearm accessories.
2.0 Economic Liberty
Libertarians want all members of society to have abundant opportunities to achieve economic success. A free and competitive market allocates resources in the most efficient manner. Each person has the right to offer goods and services to others on the free market. The only proper role of government in the economic realm is to protect property rights, adjudicate disputes, and provide a legal framework in which voluntary trade is protected. All efforts by government to redistribute wealth, or to control or manage trade, are improper in a free society.2.1 Aggression, Property, and Contract
Aggression is the use, trespass against, or invasion of the borders of another person’s owned resource (property) without the owner’s consent; or the threat thereof. We oppose all acts of aggression as illegitimate and unjust, whether committed by private actors or the state.
Each person is the presumptive owner of his or her own body (self-ownership), which right may be forfeited only as a consequence of committing an act of aggression. Property rights in external, scarce resources are determined in accordance with the principles of original appropriation or homesteading (whereby a person becomes an owner of an unowned resource by first use and transformation), contract (whereby the owner consensually transfers ownership to another person), and rectification (whereby an owner’s property rights in certain resources are transferred to a victim of the owner’s tort, trespass, or aggression to compensate the victim).
As respect for property rights is fundamental to maintaining a free and prosperous society, it follows that the freedom to contract to obtain, retain, profit from, manage, or dispose of one’s property must also be upheld. Libertarians would free property owners from government restrictions on their rights to control and enjoy their property, as long as their choices do not harm or infringe on the rights of others. Eminent domain, civil asset forfeiture, governmental limits on profits, governmental production mandates, and governmental controls on prices of goods and services (including wages, rents, and interest) are abridgements of such fundamental rights. For voluntary dealings among private entities, parties should be free to choose with whom they trade and set whatever trade terms are mutually agreeable.
2.2 Environment
Competitive free markets and property rights stimulate the technological innovations and behavioral changes required to protect our environment and ecosystems. Private landowners and conservation groups have a vested interest in maintaining natural resources. Governments are unaccountable for damage done to our environment and have a terrible track record when it comes to environmental protection. Protecting the environment requires a clear definition and enforcement of individual rights and responsibilities regarding resources like land, water, air, and wildlife. Where damages can be proven and quantified in a court of law, restitution to the injured parties must be required.
2.3 Energy and Resources
While energy is needed to fuel a modern society, government should not be subsidizing any particular form of energy. We oppose all government control of energy pricing, allocation, and production.
2.4 Government Finance and Spending
Since all persons are entitled to keep the fruits of their labor, we oppose all government activity that consists of the forcible collection of money or goods from individuals in violation of their individual rights and strive for the eventual repeal of all taxation. To further that end, we call for the repeal of the income tax, the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service and all federal programs and services not required under the U.S. Constitution. We oppose forcing employers to serve as tax collectors. We support any initiative to reduce or abolish any tax, and oppose any increase on any tax for any reason. To the extent possible, we advocate that all public services be funded or allowed to be provided in a voluntary manner.
2.5 Government Debt
Government should not incur debt, which burdens future generations without their consent. We support the passage of a “Balanced Budget Amendment” to the U.S. Constitution, provided that the budget is balanced exclusively by cutting expenditures, and not by raising taxes.
2.6 Government Employees
We favor repealing any requirement that one must join or pay dues to a union as a condition of government employment. We advocate replacing defined-benefit pensions with defined-contribution plans, as are commonly offered in the private sector, so as not to impose debt on future generations without their consent.
2.7 Money and Financial Markets
We favor free-market banking, with unrestricted competition among banks and depository institutions of all types. Markets are not actually free unless fraud is vigorously combated. Those who enjoy the possibility of profits must not impose risks of losses upon others, such as through government guarantees or bailouts. We support ending federal student loan guarantees and special treatment of student loan debt in bankruptcy proceedings. Individuals engaged in voluntary exchange should be free to use as money any mutually agreeable commodity or item. We support a halt to inflationary monetary policies and unconstitutional legal tender laws.
2.8 Marketplace Freedom
Libertarians support free markets. We defend the right of individuals to form commercial enterprises based on voluntary association. We oppose all forms of government subsidies and bailouts to business, labor, or any other special interest. Government should not compete with private enterprise. We reject government charter of corporations. We call for a separation of business and state.
2.9 Licensing
Libertarians support the right of every person to earn an honest and peaceful living through the free and voluntary exchange of goods and services. Accordingly, we oppose occupational and other licensing laws that infringe on this right or treat it as a state-granted privilege. We encourage certifications by voluntary associations of professionals.
2.10 Sex Work
The Libertarian Party supports the decriminalization of prostitution. We assert the right of consenting adults to provide sexual services to clients for compensation, and the right of clients to purchase sexual services from consenting sex workers.
2.11 Labor Markets
Employment and compensation agreements between private employers and employees are outside the scope of government, and these contracts should not be encumbered by government-mandated benefits or social engineering. We support the right of private employers and employees to choose whether or not to bargain with each other through a labor union. Bargaining should be free of government interference, such as compulsory arbitration or imposing an obligation to bargain.
2.12 Education
Education is best provided by the free market, achieving greater quality, accountability, and efficiency with more diversity of choice. Recognizing that the education of children is a parental responsibility, we would restore authority to parents to determine the education of their children, without interference from government. Parents should have control of and responsibility for all funds expended for their children’s education.
2.13 Health Care
We favor a free market health care system. Medical facilities, medical providers, and medical products (including drugs) must be freely available in the marketplace without government restrictions or licenses. We recognize the freedom of individuals to determine the level of health insurance they want (if any), the level of health care they want, the care providers they want, the medicines and treatments they will use and all other aspects of their medical care, including end-of-life decisions. People should be free to purchase health insurance across state lines. We oppose governments either mandating, or restricting voluntary access to, medical treatments or procedures including vaccines.
2.14 Retirement and Income Security
Retirement planning is the responsibility of the individual, not the government. Libertarians would phase out the current government-sponsored Social Security system and transition to a private voluntary system. The proper and most effective source of help for the poor is the voluntary efforts of private groups and individuals. We believe members of society will become even more charitable and civil society will be strengthened as government reduces its activity in this realm.
3.0 Securing Liberty
In the United States, constitutional limits on government were intended to prevent the infringement of individual rights by those in power. The only proper purpose of government, should it exist, is the protection of individual rights. The principle of non-initiation of force should guide relationships between governments.3.1 National Defense
We support the maintenance of a sufficient military to defend the United States against aggression. The United States should both avoid entangling alliances and abandon its attempts to act as policeman for the world. We oppose any form of compulsory national service.
3.2 Internal Security and Individual Rights
Individual rights shall not be curtailed, whether based on circumstances of war, epidemic, natural disaster or emergency, or any other pretense. Intelligence agencies that legitimately seek to preserve the security of the nation must be subject to oversight and transparency. We oppose the government’s use of secret classifications to keep from the public information that it should have, especially that which shows that the government has violated the law. We oppose the use of torture and other cruel and unusual punishments, without exception.
3.3 International Affairs
American foreign policy should emphasize peace with all nations, entangling alliances with none. We would end the current U.S. government policies of foreign intervention including military and economic aid; tariffs; economic sanctions; and regime change. We recognize the right of all people to resist tyranny and defend themselves and their rights. We condemn the use of force, and especially the use of terrorism, against the innocent, regardless of whether such acts are committed by governments or by political or revolutionary groups.
3.4 Free Trade and Migration
We support the removal of governmental impediments to free trade. Political freedom and escape from tyranny demand that individuals not be unreasonably constrained by government in the crossing of political boundaries. Economic freedom demands the unrestricted movement of human as well as financial capital across national borders.
3.5 Rights and Discrimination
Libertarians embrace the concept that all people are born with certain inherent rights. We reject the idea that a natural right can ever impose an obligation upon others to fulfill that “right.” We uphold and defend the rights of every person, regardless of their race, ethnicity, or any other aspect of their identity. Government should neither deny nor abridge any individual’s human right based upon sex, wealth, ethnicity, creed, age, national origin, personal habits, political preference, or sexual orientation. Members of private organizations retain their rights to set whatever standards of association they deem appropriate, and individuals are free to respond with ostracism, boycotts, and other free market solutions.
3.6 Representative Government
We staunchly defend the rights to petition the government for redress of grievances and to express dissent. These rights are thwarted when government acts behind closed doors. We support election systems that are more representative of the electorate at the federal, state, and local levels, such as proportional representation, alternative voting systems, and explicit inclusion of “none of the above” on all ballots. As private voluntary groups, political parties should be free to establish their own rules for nomination procedures, primaries and conventions. We call for an end to any tax-financed subsidies to candidates or parties and the repeal of all laws that restrict voluntary financing of election campaigns. We oppose laws that effectively exclude alternative candidates and parties, deny ballot access, gerrymander districts, or deny the voters their right to consider all alternatives. We advocate initiative, referendum, recall, repeal, and oppose any effort to deny these options when used as popular checks on government.
3.7 Self-Determination
Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of individual liberty, it is the right of the people to alter, abolish, or withdraw from it, and to agree to such new governance, or none, as to them shall seem most likely to protect their liberty. We recognize the right to political self-determination, including secession. Exercise of this right does not require permission from others.
4.0 Omissions
In every matter, we advocate the consistent application of the principle of the non-initiation of coercion, physical force, or fraud. Our silence about any other particular government law, regulation, ordinance, directive, edict, control, regulatory agency, activity, or machination should not be construed to imply approval.LibertyKid
Platinum Member
- May 26, 2021
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- Thread starter
- #438
This is true. Some will say, there is no cult on the left, which is denial.
Carl in Michigan
Diamond Member
- Aug 15, 2016
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That would be a mistake.
The Constitution enumerates your basic rights. Rights are from God, not a document
H
Harpy Eagle
Guest
Yeah, that is what the other cult tells me as well
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