Is Ariel Castro a Murderer?

[hoosier88]

On June 7, a Cuyahoga County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment against Castro. It contained 329 counts, including two counts of aggravated murder (under different sections of the Ohio criminal code) for his alleged role in the termination of one of the women's pregnancies. The indictments covered only the period from August 2002 to February 2007. The County Prosecutor, Timothy J. McGinty, stated that the investigation was ongoing and that any further findings would be presented to the grand jury. McGinty said that pursuing a death penalty specification would be considered following completion of indictment proceedings.

Castro is of course a sick twisted oxygen thief. I'm not defending anything he did and he deserves any punishment man and G-d can mete out to him.
But part of his conviction was for doing something abortion doctors do every day. If so, doesn't that make those doctors murderers too?

(My bold)

No.

 

[The Rabbi]

On June 7, a Cuyahoga County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment against Castro. It contained 329 counts, including two counts of aggravated murder (under different sections of the Ohio criminal code) for his alleged role in the termination of one of the women's pregnancies. The indictments covered only the period from August 2002 to February 2007. The County Prosecutor, Timothy J. McGinty, stated that the investigation was ongoing and that any further findings would be presented to the grand jury. McGinty said that pursuing a death penalty specification would be considered following completion of indictment proceedings.

Castro is of course a sick twisted oxygen thief. I'm not defending anything he did and he deserves any punishment man and G-d can mete out to him.
But part of his conviction was for doing something abortion doctors do every day. If so, doesn't that make those doctors murderers too?

yeah the fact you are trying to use this in your fight against abortion is really low. then again look who i am talking about.

Someone smarter than you.

I simply pose the question. If he was charged with murder for killing an unborn child then isn't killing an unborn child murder?
Do you agree or not?

 

[Plasmaball]

Castro is of course a sick twisted oxygen thief. I'm not defending anything he did and he deserves any punishment man and G-d can mete out to him.
But part of his conviction was for doing something abortion doctors do every day. If so, doesn't that make those doctors murderers too?

yeah the fact you are trying to use this in your fight against abortion is really low. then again look who i am talking about.

Someone smarter than you.

I simply pose the question. If he was charged with murder for killing an unborn child then isn't killing an unborn child murder?
Do you agree or not?

well you are not smarter than anyone so there is that.

i seriously don't care about your question. Its childish in thought and stupid.

 

[The T]

On June 7, a Cuyahoga County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment against Castro. It contained 329 counts, including two counts of aggravated murder (under different sections of the Ohio criminal code) for his alleged role in the termination of one of the women's pregnancies. The indictments covered only the period from August 2002 to February 2007. The County Prosecutor, Timothy J. McGinty, stated that the investigation was ongoing and that any further findings would be presented to the grand jury. McGinty said that pursuing a death penalty specification would be considered following completion of indictment proceedings.

Castro is of course a sick twisted oxygen thief. I'm not defending anything he did and he deserves any punishment man and G-d can mete out to him.
But part of his conviction was for doing something abortion doctors do every day. If so, doesn't that make those doctors murderers too?

(My bold)

No.

According to the SCOTUS and ROE? You are correct...Morally and ethically?

Wanna try again?

 

[The Rabbi]

He could be considered a murderer if the mother wanted to keep the child. Its about the womans right to chose. I don't see too many abortions happen without the mothers consent.

I never considered that murder could be OK if there was 3rd party consent.

If the mother wanted an abortion that is 1rst party consent. I would never encourage a woman to get an abortion but at the same time unless I am prepared to carry the baby to term then I mind my own business.

No, it's third party consent. The baby is the first party and the most affected here.

 

[The Rabbi]

yeah the fact you are trying to use this in your fight against abortion is really low. then again look who i am talking about.

Someone smarter than you.

I simply pose the question. If he was charged with murder for killing an unborn child then isn't killing an unborn child murder?
Do you agree or not?

well you are not smarter than anyone so there is that.

i seriously don't care about your question. Its childish in thought and stupid.

If you didnt care about the question then why did you click on the link?
How smart are you again?

 

[The Rabbi]

On June 7, a Cuyahoga County grand jury returned a true bill of indictment against Castro. It contained 329 counts, including two counts of aggravated murder (under different sections of the Ohio criminal code) for his alleged role in the termination of one of the women's pregnancies. The indictments covered only the period from August 2002 to February 2007. The County Prosecutor, Timothy J. McGinty, stated that the investigation was ongoing and that any further findings would be presented to the grand jury. McGinty said that pursuing a death penalty specification would be considered following completion of indictment proceedings.

Castro is of course a sick twisted oxygen thief. I'm not defending anything he did and he deserves any punishment man and G-d can mete out to him.
But part of his conviction was for doing something abortion doctors do every day. If so, doesn't that make those doctors murderers too?

(My bold)

No.

care to explain how that's possible? I realize this might tax your one brain cell but for discussion purposes it will be enlightening.

 

[Asclepias]

I never considered that murder could be OK if there was 3rd party consent.

If the mother wanted an abortion that is 1rst party consent. I would never encourage a woman to get an abortion but at the same time unless I am prepared to carry the baby to term then I mind my own business.

No, it's third party consent. The baby is the first party and the most affected here.

No its first party. The baby cant even think coherently enough to form a decision. Mom has to make that decision.

 

[Katzndogz]

If Castro caused these women to miscarry and they were more than 24 weeks into their pregnancy, than I would consider it murder. As for abortion, while I support the right of a woman to abort a pregnancy, I do not support that right past the second trimester. I actually support a 20 week limit, and I would have been happy standing in support of the Texas legislation except for the fact the idiots tied all kinds of other things to it that forced the closing of many women's health centers.

What other things?

And is "women's heath centers" a euphemism for "abortion clinics"?

Tying the need for doctors to have admitting privileges at local hospitals forced the closing of most of these centers. Yes, they performed abortions, but they performed many other services for women. This bill was put in place to get Texas one step closer to banning abortions completely. In the long run, this will most likely come back to bite conservatives in Texas, because Texas is not going to remain conservative forever. The big problem with right to lifers is that they piss off those of us in the middle who support reasonable limits on abortion by doing everything they can to ban abortion completely. In the end, most of the time, people like me end up standing with those who don't support any limits because it becomes an either/or issue, which it really should not be.

BTW, you knew what I was talking about. Quit playing dumb.

If the abortion clinics in Texas were providing the same kind of "services" they were providing in Delaware, they need to be closed.

Are women really choosing this:

Delaware Planned Parenthood clinic has experienced five botched abortion emergencies in less than five weeks. Since then, one abortionist and two employees have left Planned Parenthood in Wilmington, Delaware, as a result of the scandal.

Former Planned Parenthood staffers Jayne Mitchell-Werbrich and Joyce Vasikonis told WPVI-TV of a “meat-market style of assembly-line abortions where the abortionist refused to wear gloves, surgical instruments were reused without being cleaned, and “bloody drainage” remained on abortion tables between procedures, exposing women to blood-borne diseases.”

“It was just unsafe. I can’t tell you how ridiculously unsafe it was,” said Mitchell-Werbrich. “Planned Parenthood needs to close its doors, it needs to be cleaned up, the staff needs to be trained.”

Werbrich alleges conditions inside the facility were unsanitary. “He didn’t wear gloves,” said Werbrich. She also worried that that women could be at risk of contracting hepatitis or AIDS

To liberals this is what women want.

 

[The T]

Someone smarter than you.

I simply pose the question. If he was charged with murder for killing an unborn child then isn't killing an unborn child murder?
Do you agree or not?

well you are not smarter than anyone so there is that.

i seriously don't care about your question. Its childish in thought and stupid.

If you didnt care about the question then why did you click on the link?
How smart are you again?

 

[Plasmaball]

Someone smarter than you.

I simply pose the question. If he was charged with murder for killing an unborn child then isn't killing an unborn child murder?
Do you agree or not?

well you are not smarter than anyone so there is that.

i seriously don't care about your question. Its childish in thought and stupid.

If you didnt care about the question then why did you click on the link?
How smart are you again?

i enjoy calling you stupid....its a perk for coming here. I like seeing just how stupid you can be and watch people beat you in an argument. Which doesnt really take long.

Luissa already settled this topic in this thread. There is nothing more to do.

 

[hoosier88]

Castro is of course a sick twisted oxygen thief. I'm not defending anything he did and he deserves any punishment man and G-d can mete out to him.
But part of his conviction was for doing something abortion doctors do every day. If so, doesn't that make those doctors murderers too?

You are a sick ****.


"told police she was pregnant multiple times while being held captive and that Ariel Castro would starve her, feed her rotten food, punch her and kick her down stairs, which resulted in the termination of her pregnancies.”
Ariel Castro Forced Abortions ? Kidnapping Victim Reveals Pregnancies Were Terminated - Hollywood Life

Do you know a lot abortion doctors that starve their patients and kick them down stairs?

I realize I have blown what is left of your mind by posting a simple question.
Castro is guilty of assault and battery in treating the mother that way. He was charged and confessed to that crime. I have no issue there.
But he was also charged with murder for killing the unborn baby. Doesn't that imply that killing unborn babies is wrong?

(My bold)

The plea deal he took was to avoid the death penalty. I believe he gets life + 1K years, just to preclude his ever getting released. The penalties for death of a zef are just to raise the heinousness (if that's a word) of the crime. It's usually an add-on - that is, the perp is charged with assault, battery, rape, etc. & the zef death is added on, to underline society's disgust with the perp. The zef death is never - TMK - prosecuted by itself.

& no, the death of the zef isn't murder - the SC has found a right to abortion, & if the court finds a right to do something, then by definition, it isn't a crime. & of course, the zef isn't a baby - it's a baby post-partum - that is, upon birth. There's room to argue about the point of viability of the zef, but that's going to be a moving goalpost, especially as embryology advances.

 

[The Rabbi]

If the mother wanted an abortion that is 1rst party consent. I would never encourage a woman to get an abortion but at the same time unless I am prepared to carry the baby to term then I mind my own business.

No, it's third party consent. The baby is the first party and the most affected here.

No its first party. The baby cant even think coherently enough to form a decision. Mom has to make that decision.

So if we execute people who are comatose is that OK because they can't think coherently?
Hell, some of the posters on this thread probably qualify under that standard.

 

[The Rabbi]

well you are not smarter than anyone so there is that.

i seriously don't care about your question. Its childish in thought and stupid.

If you didnt care about the question then why did you click on the link?
How smart are you again?

i enjoy calling you stupid....its a perk for coming here. I like seeing just how stupid you can be and watch people beat you in an argument. Which doesnt really take long.

Luissa already settled this topic in this thread. There is nothing more to do.

Calling me stupid is about all you can do. You can't express a coherent thought. You can't frame an argument. You can't defend a proposition. You're a waste of DNA. You merely have laugh value for the idiotic crap you throw around.

And i shut down the pothead trailer tramp Luissa with my first post.

 

[auditor0007]

What other things?

And is "women's heath centers" a euphemism for "abortion clinics"?

Tying the need for doctors to have admitting privileges at local hospitals forced the closing of most of these centers. Yes, they performed abortions, but they performed many other services for women. This bill was put in place to get Texas one step closer to banning abortions completely. In the long run, this will most likely come back to bite conservatives in Texas, because Texas is not going to remain conservative forever. The big problem with right to lifers is that they piss off those of us in the middle who support reasonable limits on abortion by doing everything they can to ban abortion completely. In the end, most of the time, people like me end up standing with those who don't support any limits because it becomes an either/or issue, which it really should not be.

BTW, you knew what I was talking about. Quit playing dumb.

If the abortion clinics in Texas were providing the same kind of "services" they were providing in Delaware, they need to be closed.

Are women really choosing this:

Delaware Planned Parenthood clinic has experienced five botched abortion emergencies in less than five weeks. Since then, one abortionist and two employees have left Planned Parenthood in Wilmington, Delaware, as a result of the scandal.

Former Planned Parenthood staffers Jayne Mitchell-Werbrich and Joyce Vasikonis told WPVI-TV of a “meat-market style of assembly-line abortions where the abortionist refused to wear gloves, surgical instruments were reused without being cleaned, and “bloody drainage” remained on abortion tables between procedures, exposing women to blood-borne diseases.”

“It was just unsafe. I can’t tell you how ridiculously unsafe it was,” said Mitchell-Werbrich. “Planned Parenthood needs to close its doors, it needs to be cleaned up, the staff needs to be trained.”

Werbrich alleges conditions inside the facility were unsanitary. “He didn’t wear gloves,” said Werbrich. She also worried that that women could be at risk of contracting hepatitis or AIDS

To liberals this is what women want.

Your last sentence just made anything you say pointless. If this is what was going on in one clinic, then there should be an investigation into that clinic and appropriate action taken. Nobody wants that, but of course you have to insist that is what "liberals want". Unfortunately, you don't see how silly that makes you look.

 

[Asclepias]

No, it's third party consent. The baby is the first party and the most affected here.

No its first party. The baby cant even think coherently enough to form a decision. Mom has to make that decision.

So if we execute people who are comatose is that OK because they can't think coherently?
Hell, some of the posters on this thread probably qualify under that standard.

I assume you mean pull the plug? If the person making the decision was granted that right via a signed medical directive then yes.

 

[Missourian]

If Castro caused these women to miscarry and they were more than 24 weeks into their pregnancy, than I would consider it murder. As for abortion, while I support the right of a woman to abort a pregnancy, I do not support that right past the second trimester. I actually support a 20 week limit, and I would have been happy standing in support of the Texas legislation except for the fact the idiots tied all kinds of other things to it that forced the closing of many women's health centers.

What other things?

And is "women's heath centers" a euphemism for "abortion clinics"?

Tying the need for doctors to have admitting privileges at local hospitals forced the closing of most of these centers. Yes, they performed abortions, but they performed many other services for women. This bill was put in place to get Texas one step closer to banning abortions completely. In the long run, this will most likely come back to bite conservatives in Texas, because Texas is not going to remain conservative forever. The big problem with right to lifers is that they piss off those of us in the middle who support reasonable limits on abortion by doing everything they can to ban abortion completely. In the end, most of the time, people like me end up standing with those who don't support any limits because it becomes an either/or issue, which it really should not be.

BTW, you knew what I was talking about. Quit playing dumb.

Absolutely, I knew exactly what you meant.

Here is the fact. Those "Women's Health Centers" could have stayed open and "performed many other services for women" without admitting privileges at local hospitals , as long as they didn't provide abortions.

The truth is the "many other services" was a facade.

If it wasn't, why didn't they stay open to perform those services even if they couldn't perform abortions?

 

[Plasmaball]

If you didnt care about the question then why did you click on the link?
How smart are you again?

i enjoy calling you stupid....its a perk for coming here. I like seeing just how stupid you can be and watch people beat you in an argument. Which doesnt really take long.

Luissa already settled this topic in this thread. There is nothing more to do.

Calling me stupid is about all you can do. You can't express a coherent thought. You can't frame an argument. You can't defend a proposition. You're a waste of DNA. You merely have laugh value for the idiotic crap you throw around.

And i shut down the pothead trailer tramp Luissa with my first post.

lol shut down...only in your head loser.....Oh man this is why i enjoy you, so full of shit. Your ego isnt big enough for the internets.

 

[novasteve]

Libs should be outraged he was charged with killing a clump of cells

 

[The T]

If the mother wanted an abortion that is 1rst party consent. I would never encourage a woman to get an abortion but at the same time unless I am prepared to carry the baby to term then I mind my own business.

No, it's third party consent. The baby is the first party and the most affected here.

No its first party. The baby cant even think coherently enough to form a decision. Mom has to make that decision.

However YOU disregard that it is a VIABLE human being that deserves protection BY the mother, and the doctors that have the ability to preserve it's life.

By the way? A co-worker of mine recently was told by his son he was going to be a grandfather...He was presented with a photo of the sonogram. The fetus was a few weeks old, no bigger than a grain of rice, and had a Heartbeat.

Just disregard life because it can't make a decision on it's own without help?

Really?

RECONSIDER YOUR STANCE.