Iraqi Security Forces Prepare for the Imperative Siege of Fallujah

[Bleipriester]

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Well, you are closer to the scene of the crime, and perhaps you are right -- but all of the scholarly propaganda that I have read says that the Russians were completely unprepared for the German invasion and that Stalin went into mental collapse because he was not at all expecting war with Germany -- at least, not at that time.

No doubt we are both subjected to propaganda which, with the best will in the world, we cannot completely protect ourselves from -- yet the fact remains that it was Hitler who made the first move (which he seems to have been planning for a long time) and not the Russkis.
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Yeah I know the story of the angel Stalin. They taught us the same story in school. But this is out of the question.

"While most agree that Stalin made extensive preparations for an eventual war and exploited the military conflict in Europe to his advantage, the assertions that Stalin planned to attack Nazi Germany in the summer of 1941, and that Barbarossa was a preemptive strike by Hitler, are generally discounted according to David M. Glantz."
Soviet offensive plans controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[numan]

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Thank you for your link: the question is clearly fiercely debated.

I am sure Stalin would have engaged in a Drang nach Westen if conditions had permitted, but the standard position still seems more probable to me. The Soviets seem clearly not to have been prepared for war in 1941 -- look at how badly they did when attacked, and how well they did later on.

Also, if der Böhmischer Gefreiter had really been desperately worried about a Soviet attack just then, why did he waste time and energy fooling around in the Balkans and Greece in the critical two months before attacking Russia? If he had stuck to his original plan and attacked earlier, he probably would have made it to Moscow before winter and won the war in the East.

Also, his plans did not just magically appear. The attack on Russia was clearly carefully worked out long before June. Hitler was planning to attack well back in the previous year -- just as he had indicated in Mein Kampf so many years before.

Anyway, it is an interesting question.
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[Bleipriester]

Thank you for your link: the question is clearly fiercely debated.

I am sure Stalin would have engaged in a Drang nach Westen if conditions had permitted, but the standard position still seems more probable to me. The Soviets seem clearly not to have been prepared for war in 1941 -- look at how badly they did when attacked, and how well they did later on.

They did never "well". Their sheer masses granted the victory. Stalin sent wave after wave towards the German defenses. The descriptions are horrible. Over hills of dead Red Army soldiers their reinforcements climbed and attacked again. Arm in arm and Urrah! screaming they approached the German defenses until they reached "bayonet range" or were repelled just to come back later. That is not "well".

The Red Army when the war began:
20.000 armored vehicles
17.000 aircraft
34.000 field guns and artillery guns
5.700.000 soldiers.


When Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941, in Operation Barbarossa, the Red Army's groundforces had 303 divisions and 22 separate brigades (4.8 million soldiers), including 166 divisions and 9 brigades (2.9million soldiers) garrisoned in the western military districts. The Axis deployed on the Eastern Front 181 divisionsand 18 brigades (5.5 million soldiers). Three Fronts, the Northwestern, Western, and Southwestern conducted thedefense of the western borders of the USSR. In the first weeks of the Great Patriotic War the Wehrmacht defeatedmany Red Army units. The Red Army lost millions of men as prisoners and lost much of its pre-war matériel. Stalinincreased mobilization, and by 1 August 1941, despite 46 divisions lost in combat, the Red Army's strength was 401divisions.[38]

The unprepared Soviet forces suffered much damage in the field because of mediocre officers, partial mobilization,an incomplete reorganization and mainly because they were arranged to attack Central Europe, and not to defendSoviet territory.[39] The hasty pre-war forces expansion and the over-promotion of inexperienced officers (owing tothe purging of experienced officers) favored the Wehrmacht in combat.[39] The Axis's numeric superiority renderedthe combatants' divisional strength approximately equal.[40] A generation of Soviet commanders (notably GeorgyZhukov) learned from the defeats,[41] and Soviet victories in the Battle of Moscow, at Stalingrad, Kursk and later inOperation Bagration proved decisive."

Red Army

Note: The figures above were confused: It is 5,5 million Sowjet troops and 3 million German troops. (same source)

"When Germany invaded the Soviet Union in June 1941, in Operation Barbarossa, the Red Army's ground forces had 303 divisions and 22 separate brigades (6.8 million soldiers), including 166 divisions and 9 brigades (3.2 million soldiers) garrisoned in the western military districts. The Axis forces deployed on the Eastern Front consisted of 181 divisions and 18 brigades (3 million soldiers). Three Fronts, the Northwestern, Western, and Southwestern conducted the defense of the western borders of the USSR. In the first weeks of the Great Patriotic War the Wehrmacht defeated many Red Army units. The Red Army lost millions of men as prisoners and lost much of its pre-war matériel. Stalin increased mobilization, and by 1 August 1941, despite 46 divisions lost in combat, the Red Army's strength was 401 divisions."

Red Army - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Also, if der Böhmischer Gefreiter had really been desperately worried about a Soviet attack just then, why did he waste time and energy fooling around in the Balkans and Greece in the critical two months before attacking Russia? If he had stuck to his original plan and attacked earlier, he probably would have made it to Moscow before winter and won the war in the East.

Italy attacked Greece without consulting their German allies. They failed utterly to beat the Greek forces and called for German help.

 

[numan]

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An interesting reference, thank you.

The article uses the phrase, "the unprepared Soviet forces." I gather you disagree with that description.

Had you said, "the Wehrmacht sent wave after wave towards the Russian defenses. The descriptions are horrible. Over hills of dead German soldiers their reinforcements climbed and attacked again. Arm in arm and Urrah! screaming they approached the Russian defenses until they reached "bayonet range" or were repelled just to come back later," I suspect the description would have been a source of pride for some German patriots.
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[Bleipriester]

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An interesting reference, thank you.

The article uses the phrase, "the unprepared Soviet forces." I gather you disagree with that description.
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If you read this sentence to its end...