In Support Of A Palestinian State

[Hollie]

It follows that even a Palestinian state that would fail to meet codified Montevideo expectations could simply declare otherwise, and then act accordingly, "to defend its integrity and independence...."

More than likely, any such "defending" would subsequently involve incessant war and terror against "Occupied Palestine," also known as Israel. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"

Whenever the PA finally decides it is time openly to declare statehood, certain explicit Montevideo standards and corollary criteria of statehood will need to be invoked.

Gatestoneinstitute

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"​

1948 occupied Palestine.

A monumental event, don't you agree?

In 1948 a little sliver of the Islamist Middle East was liberated from the disease of retrograde Islamism.

 

[P F Tinmore]

It follows that even a Palestinian state that would fail to meet codified Montevideo expectations could simply declare otherwise, and then act accordingly, "to defend its integrity and independence...."

More than likely, any such "defending" would subsequently involve incessant war and terror against "Occupied Palestine," also known as Israel. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"

Whenever the PA finally decides it is time openly to declare statehood, certain explicit Montevideo standards and corollary criteria of statehood will need to be invoked.

Gatestoneinstitute

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"​

1948 occupied Palestine.

The PLO was nothing more than just another franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc. ™

It doesn't any stretch of imagination or intellect to understand that Islamic terrorist franchises never liberate anyone from anything. All of them have the same habit of imposing their own peculiar version of retrograde theocratic totalitarianism.

You are just shoveling Israeli shit. The PLO was a multi religious, secular organization. They consistently called for a secular, democratic state with equal rights for all specifically the Jews.

 

[MJB12741]

It follows that even a Palestinian state that would fail to meet codified Montevideo expectations could simply declare otherwise, and then act accordingly, "to defend its integrity and independence...."

More than likely, any such "defending" would subsequently involve incessant war and terror against "Occupied Palestine," also known as Israel. The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"

Whenever the PA finally decides it is time openly to declare statehood, certain explicit Montevideo standards and corollary criteria of statehood will need to be invoked.

Gatestoneinstitute

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"​

1948 occupied Palestine.

The PLO was nothing more than just another franchise of Islamic Terrorism Intl., Inc. ™

It doesn't any stretch of imagination or intellect to understand that Islamic terrorist franchises never liberate anyone from anything. All of them have the same habit of imposing their own peculiar version of retrograde theocratic totalitarianism.

Most hurt by Palestinian leadership are the Palestinians. But hey, who wanted the Palestinian leadership of the PLO & now elected Hamas?

 

[docmauser1]

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"​

1948 occupied Palestine.

Our honorably clueless P F Tinmore is invited to provide us with the names of that sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, prime-minister, president of that "palestine" that got "occupied".

 

[MJB12741]

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"​

1948 occupied Palestine.

Our honorably clueless P F Tinmore is invited to provide us with the names of that sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, prime-minister, president of that "palestine" that got "occupied".

I agree with Tinmore the Palestinians need & well deserve a Palestinian State with self determination void of any control by Israel. Question is where to put it as no surroundingh Arab country wants Palestinians back.

 

[Coyote]

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"​

1948 occupied Palestine.

Our honorably clueless P F Tinmore is invited to provide us with the names of that sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, prime-minister, president of that "palestine" that got "occupied".

I agree with Tinmore the Palestinians need & well deserve a Palestinian State with self determination void of any control by Israel. Question is where to put it as no surroundingh Arab country wants Palestinians back.

Of course they don't since the Palestinian did not originate from those countries.

 

[MJB12741]

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"​

1948 occupied Palestine.

Our honorably clueless P F Tinmore is invited to provide us with the names of that sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, prime-minister, president of that "palestine" that got "occupied".

I agree with Tinmore the Palestinians need & well deserve a Palestinian State with self determination void of any control by Israel. Question is where to put it as no surroundingh Arab country wants Palestinians back.

Of course they don't since the Palestinian did not originate from those countries.

What if anything is not true here?

The Ten Commandments of Arab Lies

 

[Coyote]

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"​

1948 occupied Palestine.

Our honorably clueless P F Tinmore is invited to provide us with the names of that sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, prime-minister, president of that "palestine" that got "occupied".

I agree with Tinmore the Palestinians need & well deserve a Palestinian State with self determination void of any control by Israel. Question is where to put it as no surroundingh Arab country wants Palestinians back.

Of course they don't since the Palestinian did not originate from those countries.

What if anything is not true here?

The Ten Commandments of Arab Lies

All of it. But given the source not surprising.

 

[MJB12741]

The Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) was formed in 1964, three years before there supposedly were any "Israeli Occupied Territories." What, then, exactly, was the PLO trying to "liberate?"​

1948 occupied Palestine.

Our honorably clueless P F Tinmore is invited to provide us with the names of that sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, prime-minister, president of that "palestine" that got "occupied".

I agree with Tinmore the Palestinians need & well deserve a Palestinian State with self determination void of any control by Israel. Question is where to put it as no surroundingh Arab country wants Palestinians back.

Of course they don't since the Palestinian did not originate from those countries.

What if anything is not true here?

The Ten Commandments of Arab Lies

All of it. But given the source not surprising.

Please provide your source of evidence to suppoort your claim here that none of what I presented is valid.

 

[Coyote]

Our honorably clueless P F Tinmore is invited to provide us with the names of that sultan, emir, pasha, effendi, prime-minister, president of that "palestine" that got "occupied".

I agree with Tinmore the Palestinians need & well deserve a Palestinian State with self determination void of any control by Israel. Question is where to put it as no surroundingh Arab country wants Palestinians back.

Of course they don't since the Palestinian did not originate from those countries.

What if anything is not true here?

The Ten Commandments of Arab Lies

All of it. But given the source not surprising.

Please provide your source of evidence to suppoort your claim here that none of what I presented is valid.

1. The “Palestinian people” have an historic connection to the
land.
This is very interesting since there is no such thing as a
“Palestinian people.” When the Romans changed the name of Israel to Palestine,
the people living there at the time were Jews, not Arabs. If there had been a
Palestinian people, which there never was, it would have been Jews.

Palestinians are descendents of the people who lived in the region historically including Jews, mixed with peoples who have come through in successive immigrations and conquests. They are very closely related to the Jews. Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots

Palestinians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Nebel proposed that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD".


2.
The Palestinian people have been in the land from time
immemorial.
For centuries pre-Israel Palestine was a forgotten,
desolate wasteland inhabited by a remnant of Jews, along with some Christians
and wandering Bedouins who certainly had no thought of a national identity of
any kind.

See answer to #1. The idea that it was a desolate wasteland is a myth confirmed by such accounts as the Ottoman census.


3.There were no Jews in Palestine until Israel became a
state in 1948.
The Romans officially banished the Jews from Israel
(Palestine) in 135 CE. However, historical records show there was always a
Jewish presence in the land. While many were scattered, other Jews simply moved
out of “harm’s way” until a less hostile power ruled the land.

This one I don't dispute.


4.
Arabs and Jews lived in harmony before Israel became a
state.
Throughout the centuries, Jews as well as Christians, living
under Islamic rule suffered persecution and humiliation, the intensity of which
was determined by the character of a particular Moslem ruler. As second class
citizens, there was never a “good time” for non-Moslems living under Islamic
rule.

Partially false. Jews did relatively well under Muslim rulers, per the standards of the time which recognized none of the rights and freedoms we take for granted now. Tolerance was not considered a virtue by monotheistic religions They were less persecuted than under Christian rulers and allowed to pursue far more professions and freedoms.



5.The returning Jews displaced the Palestinian
Arabs
The ancestors of most of the present-day Arab population
migrated to the land after Jewish pioneers began to reclaim the land. They came
from many different countries and were not original inhabitants of the
land.

Both true and false.

The Jews did not displace the Palestinian Arabs.
While there was some Arab immigration, it was far less than is claimed.
MidEast Web - Population of Palestine


6. The Jews stole Arab land
Jews returning to the
land settled on unclaimed, unoccupied land or bought land from absentee Arab
landowners at outrageously high prices.

Also partially true, partially false. Land was bought in some cases, stolen in other cases. Absentee land owner laws allowed Israel to confiscate land because the legal owners were not allowed to return. In fact laws made it very difficult for Palestinian owners to reclaim property and much easier for Jews to. No indication there were "outrageously high prices".

7. The Jews forced Arabs to
flee Palestine
When Israel was declared a state in 1948, leaders
from the surrounding Arab countries declared war on Israel and instructed the
Arabs living in the land to flee until the Jews were annihilated. Israeli
leaders, to no avail, urged the Arabs to stay.

This one is not a myth. In fact, the claim that Arabs instructed them to flee is more of a myth, since it's one of the lesser factors.

Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A document produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948" was dated 30 June 1948 and became widely known around 1985.

The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them "in order of importance":

1. Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.
2. The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements... (... especially the fall of large neighbouring centers).
3. Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]
4. Orders and decrees by Arab institutions and gangs [irregulars].
5. Jewish whispering operations [psychological warfare], aimed at frightening away Arab inhabitants.
6. Ultimate expulsion orders [by Jewish forces]
7. Fear of Jewish [retaliatory] response [following] major Arab attack on Jews.
8. The appearance of gangs [irregular Arab forces] and non-local fighters in the vicinity of a village.
9. Fear of Arab invasion and its consequences [mainly near the borders].
10. Isolated Arab villages in purely [predominantly] Jewish areas.
11. Various local factors and general fear of the future.[6

8. The Jews caused the
Arab refugee problem
If Arab countries would assimilate and care
for the “Palestinian” refugees, as Israel did for their Jewish refugees, there
would be no refugee problem. Instead they use them as political pawns in their
struggle against Israel.

Also only partly true - they were used as pawns. However - the refugees that had been forced to flee should have been allowed to return to their homes. Arab countries, such as Jordan, absorbed some but they were under no requirement to absorb all.


9. Israel is the aggressor against
defenseless Palestinians
In its brief history, Israel has had one
war after another and each time they are blamed as the aggressor. The Arabs do
not recognize the right of Israel to exist and are in a constant state of
hostility against Israel. Their aim is to destroy Israel.

Again - partially true/partially false. Israel has also instigated actions such as settlement building in Occupied Territories that are construed as "aggression". There are no angels here.



10.
Jerusalem is holy to Moslems
While Jerusalem is mentioned over
eight hundred times in the Bible, it is not mentioned one time in the Koran.
Moslems have had little or no interest in Jerusalem until the Jewish presence in modern times.

False. Whether or not something is holy has nothing to do with how often it is mentioned. Islam's third holiest site is located in Jerusalem and that is nothing new.

 

[MJB12741]

I agree with Tinmore the Palestinians need & well deserve a Palestinian State with self determination void of any control by Israel. Question is where to put it as no surroundingh Arab country wants Palestinians back.

Of course they don't since the Palestinian did not originate from those countries.

What if anything is not true here?

The Ten Commandments of Arab Lies

All of it. But given the source not surprising.

Please provide your source of evidence to suppoort your claim here that none of what I presented is valid.

1. The “Palestinian people” have an historic connection to the
land.
This is very interesting since there is no such thing as a
“Palestinian people.” When the Romans changed the name of Israel to Palestine,
the people living there at the time were Jews, not Arabs. If there had been a
Palestinian people, which there never was, it would have been Jews.

Palestinians are descendents of the people who lived in the region historically including Jews, mixed with peoples who have come through in successive immigrations and conquests. They are very closely related to the Jews. Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots

Palestinians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Nebel proposed that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD".


2.
The Palestinian people have been in the land from time
immemorial.
For centuries pre-Israel Palestine was a forgotten,
desolate wasteland inhabited by a remnant of Jews, along with some Christians
and wandering Bedouins who certainly had no thought of a national identity of
any kind.

See answer to #1. The idea that it was a desolate wasteland is a myth confirmed by such accounts as the Ottoman census.


3.There were no Jews in Palestine until Israel became a
state in 1948.
The Romans officially banished the Jews from Israel
(Palestine) in 135 CE. However, historical records show there was always a
Jewish presence in the land. While many were scattered, other Jews simply moved
out of “harm’s way” until a less hostile power ruled the land.

This one I don't dispute.


4.
Arabs and Jews lived in harmony before Israel became a
state.
Throughout the centuries, Jews as well as Christians, living
under Islamic rule suffered persecution and humiliation, the intensity of which
was determined by the character of a particular Moslem ruler. As second class
citizens, there was never a “good time” for non-Moslems living under Islamic
rule.

Partially false. Jews did relatively well under Muslim rulers, per the standards of the time which recognized none of the rights and freedoms we take for granted now. Tolerance was not considered a virtue by monotheistic religions They were less persecuted than under Christian rulers and allowed to pursue far more professions and freedoms.



5.The returning Jews displaced the Palestinian
Arabs
The ancestors of most of the present-day Arab population
migrated to the land after Jewish pioneers began to reclaim the land. They came
from many different countries and were not original inhabitants of the
land.

Both true and false.

The Jews did not displace the Palestinian Arabs.
While there was some Arab immigration, it was far less than is claimed.
MidEast Web - Population of Palestine


6. The Jews stole Arab land
Jews returning to the
land settled on unclaimed, unoccupied land or bought land from absentee Arab
landowners at outrageously high prices.

Also partially true, partially false. Land was bought in some cases, stolen in other cases. Absentee land owner laws allowed Israel to confiscate land because the legal owners were not allowed to return. In fact laws made it very difficult for Palestinian owners to reclaim property and much easier for Jews to. No indication there were "outrageously high prices".

7. The Jews forced Arabs to
flee Palestine
When Israel was declared a state in 1948, leaders
from the surrounding Arab countries declared war on Israel and instructed the
Arabs living in the land to flee until the Jews were annihilated. Israeli
leaders, to no avail, urged the Arabs to stay.

This one is not a myth. In fact, the claim that Arabs instructed them to flee is more of a myth, since it's one of the lesser factors.

Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A document produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948" was dated 30 June 1948 and became widely known around 1985.

The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them "in order of importance":

1. Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.
2. The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements... (... especially the fall of large neighbouring centers).
3. Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]
4. Orders and decrees by Arab institutions and gangs [irregulars].
5. Jewish whispering operations [psychological warfare], aimed at frightening away Arab inhabitants.
6. Ultimate expulsion orders [by Jewish forces]
7. Fear of Jewish [retaliatory] response [following] major Arab attack on Jews.
8. The appearance of gangs [irregular Arab forces] and non-local fighters in the vicinity of a village.
9. Fear of Arab invasion and its consequences [mainly near the borders].
10. Isolated Arab villages in purely [predominantly] Jewish areas.
11. Various local factors and general fear of the future.[6

8. The Jews caused the
Arab refugee problem
If Arab countries would assimilate and care
for the “Palestinian” refugees, as Israel did for their Jewish refugees, there
would be no refugee problem. Instead they use them as political pawns in their
struggle against Israel.

Also only partly true - they were used as pawns. However - the refugees that had been forced to flee should have been allowed to return to their homes. Arab countries, such as Jordan, absorbed some but they were under requirement to absorb all.


9. Israel is the aggressor against
defenseless Palestinians
In its brief history, Israel has had one
war after another and each time they are blamed as the aggressor. The Arabs do
not recognize the right of Israel to exist and are in a constant state of
hostility against Israel. Their aim is to destroy Israel.

Again - partially true/partially false. Israel has also instigated actions such as settlement building in Occupied Territories that are construed as "aggression". There are no angels here.



10.
Jerusalem is holy to Moslems
While Jerusalem is mentioned over
eight hundred times in the Bible, it is not mentioned one time in the Koran.
Moslems have had little or no interest in Jerusalem until the Jewish presence in modern times.

False. Whether or not something is holy has nothing to do with how often it is mentioned. Islam's third holiest site is located in Jerusalem and that is nothing new.

While I don't agree with most of your responce, I do appreciate your respomding. The one point I do agree with you on is building settlements in occupied territories. But let us not forget what promped this.

 

[MJB12741]

Of course they don't since the Palestinian did not originate from those countries.

What if anything is not true here?

The Ten Commandments of Arab Lies

All of it. But given the source not surprising.

Please provide your source of evidence to suppoort your claim here that none of what I presented is valid.

1. The “Palestinian people” have an historic connection to the
land.
This is very interesting since there is no such thing as a
“Palestinian people.” When the Romans changed the name of Israel to Palestine,
the people living there at the time were Jews, not Arabs. If there had been a
Palestinian people, which there never was, it would have been Jews.

Palestinians are descendents of the people who lived in the region historically including Jews, mixed with peoples who have come through in successive immigrations and conquests. They are very closely related to the Jews. Blood brothers: Palestinians and Jews share genetic roots

Palestinians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia: Nebel proposed that "part, or perhaps the majority" of Muslim Palestinians descend from "local inhabitants, mainly Christians and Jews, who had converted after the Islamic conquest in the seventh century AD".


2.
The Palestinian people have been in the land from time
immemorial.
For centuries pre-Israel Palestine was a forgotten,
desolate wasteland inhabited by a remnant of Jews, along with some Christians
and wandering Bedouins who certainly had no thought of a national identity of
any kind.

See answer to #1. The idea that it was a desolate wasteland is a myth confirmed by such accounts as the Ottoman census.


3.There were no Jews in Palestine until Israel became a
state in 1948.
The Romans officially banished the Jews from Israel
(Palestine) in 135 CE. However, historical records show there was always a
Jewish presence in the land. While many were scattered, other Jews simply moved
out of “harm’s way” until a less hostile power ruled the land.

This one I don't dispute.


4.
Arabs and Jews lived in harmony before Israel became a
state.
Throughout the centuries, Jews as well as Christians, living
under Islamic rule suffered persecution and humiliation, the intensity of which
was determined by the character of a particular Moslem ruler. As second class
citizens, there was never a “good time” for non-Moslems living under Islamic
rule.

Partially false. Jews did relatively well under Muslim rulers, per the standards of the time which recognized none of the rights and freedoms we take for granted now. Tolerance was not considered a virtue by monotheistic religions They were less persecuted than under Christian rulers and allowed to pursue far more professions and freedoms.



5.The returning Jews displaced the Palestinian
Arabs
The ancestors of most of the present-day Arab population
migrated to the land after Jewish pioneers began to reclaim the land. They came
from many different countries and were not original inhabitants of the
land.

Both true and false.

The Jews did not displace the Palestinian Arabs.
While there was some Arab immigration, it was far less than is claimed.
MidEast Web - Population of Palestine


6. The Jews stole Arab land
Jews returning to the
land settled on unclaimed, unoccupied land or bought land from absentee Arab
landowners at outrageously high prices.

Also partially true, partially false. Land was bought in some cases, stolen in other cases. Absentee land owner laws allowed Israel to confiscate land because the legal owners were not allowed to return. In fact laws made it very difficult for Palestinian owners to reclaim property and much easier for Jews to. No indication there were "outrageously high prices".

7. The Jews forced Arabs to
flee Palestine
When Israel was declared a state in 1948, leaders
from the surrounding Arab countries declared war on Israel and instructed the
Arabs living in the land to flee until the Jews were annihilated. Israeli
leaders, to no avail, urged the Arabs to stay.

This one is not a myth. In fact, the claim that Arabs instructed them to flee is more of a myth, since it's one of the lesser factors.

Causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A document produced by the Israeli Defence Forces Intelligence Service entitled "The Emigration of the Arabs of Palestine in the Period 1/12/1947 – 1/6/1948" was dated 30 June 1948 and became widely known around 1985.

The document details 11 factors which caused the exodus, and lists them "in order of importance":

1. Direct, hostile Jewish [ Haganah/IDF ] operations against Arab settlements.
2. The effect of our [Haganah/IDF] hostile operations against nearby [Arab] settlements... (... especially the fall of large neighbouring centers).
3. Operation of [Jewish] dissidents [ Irgun Tzvai Leumi and Lohamei Herut Yisrael]
4. Orders and decrees by Arab institutions and gangs [irregulars].
5. Jewish whispering operations [psychological warfare], aimed at frightening away Arab inhabitants.
6. Ultimate expulsion orders [by Jewish forces]
7. Fear of Jewish [retaliatory] response [following] major Arab attack on Jews.
8. The appearance of gangs [irregular Arab forces] and non-local fighters in the vicinity of a village.
9. Fear of Arab invasion and its consequences [mainly near the borders].
10. Isolated Arab villages in purely [predominantly] Jewish areas.
11. Various local factors and general fear of the future.[6

8. The Jews caused the
Arab refugee problem
If Arab countries would assimilate and care
for the “Palestinian” refugees, as Israel did for their Jewish refugees, there
would be no refugee problem. Instead they use them as political pawns in their
struggle against Israel.

Also only partly true - they were used as pawns. However - the refugees that had been forced to flee should have been allowed to return to their homes. Arab countries, such as Jordan, absorbed some but they were under requirement to absorb all.


9. Israel is the aggressor against
defenseless Palestinians
In its brief history, Israel has had one
war after another and each time they are blamed as the aggressor. The Arabs do
not recognize the right of Israel to exist and are in a constant state of
hostility against Israel. Their aim is to destroy Israel.

Again - partially true/partially false. Israel has also instigated actions such as settlement building in Occupied Territories that are construed as "aggression". There are no angels here.



10.
Jerusalem is holy to Moslems
While Jerusalem is mentioned over
eight hundred times in the Bible, it is not mentioned one time in the Koran.
Moslems have had little or no interest in Jerusalem until the Jewish presence in modern times.

False. Whether or not something is holy has nothing to do with how often it is mentioned. Islam's third holiest site is located in Jerusalem and that is nothing new.

While I don't agree with most of your responce, I do appreciate your respomding. The one point I do agree with you on is building settlements in occupied territories. But let us not forget what promped this.

Occupied territory? Blame Jordan. Let us not forget that Jordan rejected Israel's offer to return the West Bank after the 67 war. Gosh I wonder why. Boy, that's a tough question, huh?

Why does Israel want the occupied territories? - Quora

 

[montelatici]

Israel never offered to return the West Bank after the 1967 war. Where do you come up with these fantasies?

 

[MJB12741]

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[MJB12741]

When Israel granted the Palestinians a Jew free Gaza, why did Egypt suddenly close the border? Are the Egyptians not in support of an Arab brotherly Palestinian State in Gaza? Gosh, I wonder why not?

 

[montelatici]

Six-Day War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wiki?

 

[montelatici]

When Israel granted the Palestinians a Jew free Gaza, why did Egypt suddenly close the border? Are the Egyptians not in support of an Arab brotherly Palestinian State in Gaza? Gosh, I wonder why not?

Egypt was forced to close the border or lose U.S. aid.

 

[Hollie]

When Israel granted the Palestinians a Jew free Gaza, why did Egypt suddenly close the border? Are the Egyptians not in support of an Arab brotherly Palestinian State in Gaza? Gosh, I wonder why not?

Egypt was forced to close the border or lose U.S. aid.

Egypt had its own problems with the Hamas terrorists (the bastard children of the Muslim brotherhood).

 

[flacaltenn]

Hey.. I've got an idea. Let's discuss the OP topic !!!!

Doesn't involve Canaanites or the 1800s.. It's about solutions based on current REALITIES..
It's about blasting away at the NEGATIVITY and PESSIMISM in that Daniel Greenfield piece that this
thread is about..

Is Gaza a template for any realization of a larger Palestinian State? Will forcing a national government on the Palis lead to more infighting? Is there anyway around a struggle for power and a desire for resistance?

That sort of thing. There is NOT another 1000 years to resolve this issue. Clock is ticking. Figure it out..

• 
  
  
  • "Zone 2": Political Forum / Israel and Palestine Forum / Race Relations/Racism Forum / Religion & Ethics Forum / Environment Forum: Baiting and polarizing OP's (Opening Posts), and thread titles risk the thread either being moved or trashed. Keep it relevant, choose wisely. Each post must contain content relevant to the thread subject, in addition to any flame. No trolling. No hit and run flames. No hijacking or derailing threads.

I do not see the OP as negative & pessimistic. I see that as the reality. Any Palestinian State within Israel's reach can only result in two states at endless conflict.

What the author doesn't account for is the divisions within the Palestinians themselves. That's what has delayed the organization required for a National Identity. And it shouldn't be Israels problem to restrain the fractions that want perpetual resistance and violence. The only viable solution is to have Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon and others ASSIST in restraining the violence towards Israel.

Lately I'm thinking that the historical organization of the Palis have been a very weak confederation of City States. Much like the Emirates. And perhaps the available choice is to "autonomize" very small regions of the Green Zone with land swaps provided by Jordan/Lebanon/Egypt/Israel to remove the ugly Pali camps currently under their control. THEN -- a Palestine only requires a very weak and limited central government to do the very basic functions of census, passports, currency, central banking, etc..

I think a LARGER picture of a deal needs to be put out there. One that UNITES Gaza with WB and establishes secure transport routes that connect Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria thru the Sinai and Jordan Valley. Putting these Pali city states on MAJOR commerce routes connecting all those economies would be VERY attractive for the Pali cities and surroundings that lie on those routes... Amman to Cairo to Beirut with an Airport in Sinai and a Seaport in Gaza becomes a very livable solution. Lot less money involved in doing that then having the Palis be a welfare case for the next 100 years.

 

[flacaltenn]

Also from the Gatestoneinstitute:


Under relevant international law, a true state must always possess the following specific qualifications: (1) a permanent population; (2) a defined territory; (3) a government; and (4) the capacity to enter into relations with other states.

While this contingent condition of prior demilitarization of a Palestinian state may at first sound reassuring, it represents little more than a impotent legal expectation.

For one thing, no new state is ever under any obligation to remain "demilitarized," whatever else it may have actually agreed to during its particular pre-state incarnation.

You cannot exist in the Mid East today as a "demilitarized" entity. ISIS would take you for a snack. Too easy for proxy armies to setup within the borders. What's required is a defense pact involving ALL the neighbors. And that means Israel as well.. Not so far fetched as Israel has already been talking with MANY Arab states about mutual defense issues.