I'm very skeptical of claims that Putin is having pain inflicted on him and being sanctioned strongly enough to hurt him

[daveman]

I see what trump says. First I see him say Putin is brilliant then I see him say the next day that’s fake news. I didn’t see him praising Putin.

We also see the white evangelical Americans love Putin too.

You see what you're told to see. That's it.

 

[daveman]

NATO has been expanding eastward since Clinton came to DC, and the threat to Russia continued during Trump's reign:

Enlargement of NATO - Wikipedia

"In 1999, Poland, Hungary, and the Czech Republic joined NATO, amid much debate within the organization and Russian opposition.

"Another expansion came with the accession of seven Central and Eastern European countries: Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia.

"These nations were invited to begin membership talks during the 2002 Prague summit, and joined NATO shortly before the 2004 Istanbul summit. Albania and Croatia joined on 1 April 2009, prior to the 2009 Strasbourg–Kehl summit.

"The most recent member states to be added to NATO are Montenegro on 5 June 2017 and North Macedonia on 27 March 2020."

That disproves nothing of my post at which you aimed this mindless shrieking.

Being a straight-up Communist, I know YOU support Putin and hopes he puts the band back together.

 

[sealybobo]

You see what you're told to see. That's it.

So do you. Only you're told not to see what you see, and you choose not to see it for political reasons.

 

[daveman]

So do you. Only you're told not to see what you see, and you choose not to see it for political reasons.

LOL! "NO U". But it's good and righteous and holy when you do it.

 

[georgephillip]

Being a straight-up Communist, I know YOU support Putin and hopes he puts the band back together.

Are you MAGA-mindless enough to consider Putin a communist?

 

[sealybobo]

Are you MAGA-mindless enough to consider Putin a communist?

Is this proof Capitalism is no better an ISM than any of the other isms? It can be corrupted too.

The only reason our ISM is the best ISM in the world is because of our liberal democracy. One that is for We the People. When the rich start taking it over, that's when it becomes just another ISM.

Russia is making Capitalism look bad right? Now you see the importance of a good government. One that has power but not too much power.

 

[georgephillip]

Is this proof Capitalism is no better an ISM than any of the other isms? It can be corrupted too.

The only reason our ISM is the best ISM in the world is because of our liberal democracy. One that is for We the People. When the rich start taking it over, that's when it becomes just another ISM.

When I look at the last five hundred years of capitalism I see slavery, genocide, endless debt, and eternal war.

Over the 74 years I've been alive, America has been at war or threatening war in almost every one.

Over the past forty years, three distinct oligarchies have assumed control over our government:

MARCH 1, 2022

America Defeats Germany for the Third Time in a Century​

BY MICHAEL HUDSON

"It is more realistic to view U.S. economic and foreign policy in terms of the military-industrial complex, the oil and gas (and mining) complex, and the banking and real estate complex than in terms of the political policy of Republicans and Democrats.

"The key senators and congressional representatives do not represent their states and districts as much as the economic and financial interests of their major political campaign contributors."

Imho, the long-term plan for US capitalists is to break up Russia or at least restore its Yeltsin/Harvard Boys kleptocracy that created Putin and the current crop of Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.

If that means thousands of Ukrainians have to die or become refugees, so much the better.

 

[daveman]

Are you MAGA-mindless enough to consider Putin a communist?

Putin's not a Communist; he's a Soviet. He wants to re-establish the Soviet Union so he can have virtually unlimited power.

 

[The Purge]

 

[georgephillip]

Putin's not a Communist; he's a Soviet. He wants to re-establish the Soviet Union so he can have virtually unlimited power.

Yet it is NATO that has expanded towards Putin's borders since the end of the Cold War. Putin was pushed into a corner, and now he's pushing back.

MintPress Study: NY Times, Washington Post Driving U.S. to War with Russia Over Ukraine

 

[daveman]

Yet it is NATO that has expanded towards Putin's borders since the end of the Cold War. Putin was pushed into a corner, and now he's pushing back.

MintPress Study: NY Times, Washington Post Driving U.S. to War with Russia Over Ukraine

See? You support Putin, just like I said.

 

[georgephillip]

See? You support Putin, just like I said.

I don't support Putin, Biden, or Trump.
Who do you support?

 

[daveman]

I don't support Putin, Biden, or Trump.
Who do you support?

You don't support Putin, but you're damn sure trying to excuse his invasion.

 

[Roudy]

They still have an economy

An economy that is crippled if they don’t have access to global markets.
The USSR collapsed from the burden of occupying Afghanistan
Can a crippled Russia afford to occupy Ukraine?

The USSR collapsed because of a man like Reagan, not the incompetent dumbass corrupt invalid we have in the Oval Office that hasn't been right in the last 40 years.

 

[georgephillip]

You don't support Putin, but you're damn sure trying to excuse his invasion.

To understand why Putin committed his war crimes in Ukraine is not to condone them.

Russia was baited by the US and its European puppets for thirty years by NATO expansion, and Putin finally took the bait.

I can condemn Putin's war of aggression in Ukraine as completely as I condemned the US invasion of Iraq; do you?

"In a classified diplomatic cable obtained and released by WikiLeaks dated February 1, 2008, written from Moscow, and addressed to the Joint Chiefs of Staff, NATO-European Union Cooperative, National Security Council, Russia Moscow Political Collective, Secretary of Defense, and Secretary of State, there was an unequivocal understanding that expanding NATO risked an eventual conflict with Russia, especially over Ukraine.

Hedges: Chronicle of a War Foretold

"'Not only does Russia perceive encirclement [by NATO], and efforts to undermine Russia’s influence in the region, but it also fears unpredictable and uncontrolled consequences which would seriously affect Russian security interests,' the cable reads.

"'Experts tell us that Russia is particularly worried that the strong divisions in Ukraine over NATO membership, with much of the ethnic-Russian community against membership, could lead to a major split, involving violence or at worst, civil war.'

"'In that eventuality Russia would have to decide whether to intervene; a decision Russia does not want to have to face. . . . Dmitri Trenin, Deputy Director of the Carnegie Moscow Center, expressed concern that Ukraine was, in the long-term, the most potentially destabilizing factor in U.S.-Russian relations, given the level of emotion and neuralgia triggered by its quest for NATO membership . . . Because membership remained divisive in Ukrainian domestic politics, it created an opening for Russian intervention. Trenin expressed concern that elements within the Russian establishment would be encouraged to meddle, stimulating U.S. overt encouragement of opposing political forces, and leaving the U.S. and Russia in a classic confrontational posture.'"

 

[rightwinger]

The USSR collapsed because of a man like Reagan, not the incompetent dumbass corrupt invalid we have in the Oval Office that hasn't been right in the last 40 years.

USSR collapsed because of a long, expensive occupation of Afghanistan

Same thing that will happen in Ukraine

 

[sealybobo]

When I look at the last five hundred years of capitalism I see slavery, genocide, endless debt, and eternal war.

Over the 74 years I've been alive, America has been at war or threatening war in almost every one.

Over the past forty years, three distinct oligarchies have assumed control over our government:

MARCH 1, 2022

America Defeats Germany for the Third Time in a Century​

BY MICHAEL HUDSON

"It is more realistic to view U.S. economic and foreign policy in terms of the military-industrial complex, the oil and gas (and mining) complex, and the banking and real estate complex than in terms of the political policy of Republicans and Democrats.

"The key senators and congressional representatives do not represent their states and districts as much as the economic and financial interests of their major political campaign contributors."

Imho, the long-term plan for US capitalists is to break up Russia or at least restore its Yeltsin/Harvard Boys kleptocracy that created Putin and the current crop of Russian and Ukrainian oligarchs.

If that means thousands of Ukrainians have to die or become refugees, so much the better.

We need to break up the US Oligarchs too. I believe breaking up Microsoft led to Google.

 

[rightwinger]

We need to break up the US Oligarchs too. I believe breaking up Microsoft led to Google.

Break up USMB

 

[sealybobo]

Break up USMB

What's sad is 60% of America agrees with us but 75% of USMB members are republicans. They love Rush and Fox more than we love MSNBC. And a lot of us are dupable. Trump conned a lot of us. He used wedge issues perfectly. Well, not perfectly because he lost.

Can you imagine if he would have played it moderately? Not divided us? Not stoked the flames? If he was sincere and his justices were moderates? OMG even I would have loved him. Why didn't he go that route?

Same reason Putin doesn't go that route. Makes me appreciate George Washington. They wanted to make him king he said no. He wasn't a meglomaniac.

 

[Godboy]

Biden is making that claim right now, but he is by no means the only one.

Putin will be a wealthy oligarch until he either dies of old age, or gets the traditional Russian bullet in the back of the head. If that bullet comes in the middle of the night, tonight, Putin is still winners for having survived almost seventy years as an old school KGB torture/murder thug.

Putin is not harmed by the Russian stock market declining, nor his energy sales losing customers. He's not harmed by the Ruble declining in value. He's still wealthier and more powerful than any king of the old world and any U.S. billionaire. He is surrounded by yes men. Those yes men do not even have to lie. The truth - that his armies are raping Ukraine and no one is lifting a finger to help them - is good enough for him.

The French and their fellow surrender monkeys will never help Ukraine. They will happily allow "NATO" to do it, because that would only mean the U.S. spending its blood and treasure to once again save Europe from itself. Then the French et al will tell their grandchildren stories of how the resistance defeated the tyrants. I see no reason to accept that role again.

Globalism is a failure. The Ukraine disaster is only the latest proof of that.

You hurt the oligarchs so they hurt Putin.