If you only care about Rights (or content) you agree with, do you really care about them at all?

[depotoo]

Does an employer have rules of conduct? What happens if someone disregards those rules of conduct, let's say at a party, where you are representative of the employer?
Just because we have free speech, we also agree to have that free speech squashed in certain situations in life. When those students were accepted to and agreed to become students of that University, and their frat, they were given rules of conduct. If they felt they were too stringent on their rights to free speech, they could then decide not to go there. Their own decision of remaining a student there, under those rules made them responsible to adhere to them., or suffer the consequences, if they chose not to.

I'm sorry, but they did not live within the code of conduct. When they threw in hanging from a tree, that constitutes a racially hostile environment. It also represents conduct of such a nature a reasonable person would not tolerate it.

If these guys were friends, living off campus and had done this, free speech applies. Representing an organization sanctioned by the university? Not so much. Jmho.

OU has a student code of conduct

21 Mental harassment, being intentional conduct extreme or outrageous, or calculated to cause severe embarrassment, humiliation, shame, fright, grief or intimidation To constitute mental harassment, the conduct must be of such a nature that a reasonable person would not tolerate it.
27 Racial harassment is subjecting any person to differential treatment on the basis of race without legitimate, nondiscriminatory reason When harassment is primarily racial in nature, the provisions of the Racial and Ethnic Harassment Policy shall apply

RACIAL AND ETHNIC HARASSMENT POLICY
I Introduction Diversity is one of the strengths of our society as well as one of the hallmarks of a great university The University of Oklahoma supports diversity and therefore is committed to maintaining employment and educational settings which are multicultural, multiethnic and multiracial Respecting cultural differences and promoting dignity among all members of the University community are responsibilities each of us must share


2 The University shall not subject an individual to different treatment on the basis of race by effectively causing, encouraging, accepting, tolerating or failing to correct a racially hostile environment of which it has notice.

on top of this there are also organization codes of conducts, which are on campus property. (Frat house was on campus property)

No single person was actually harassed. Having your feelings hurt by a video is not being harassed.

That part of the code of conduct is unconstitutional on its face. And I am forgetting the part of the constitution that removes rights from you when you join a fraternity. Care to enlighten me?

 

[NYcarbineer]

All the recent discussion about the OU incident, and the ongoing 2nd amendment discussions has led me to ask this question.

If you say you support the rights of others, does it really count if you only support said rights only when you agree with the expression or content of those rights?

People should believe what they think is right, without regard to what the government may say is currently a right or not a right.

Should a person who believes in the right to bear arms have to believe in the right to an abortion?

 

[martybegan]

All the recent discussion about the OU incident, and the ongoing 2nd amendment discussions has led me to ask this question.

If you say you support the rights of others, does it really count if you only support said rights only when you agree with the expression or content of those rights?

People should believe what they think is right, without regard to what the government may say is currently a right or not a right.

Should a person who believes in the right to bear arms have to believe in the right to an abortion?

That question revolves around what people think IS a right. I don't see the word abortion in the Constitution, however I do see Free Speech in there.

 

[martybegan]

Does an employer have rules of conduct? What happens if someone disregards those rules of conduct, let's say at a party, where you are representative of the employer?
Just because we have free speech, we also agree to have that free speech squashed in certain situations in life. When those students were accepted to and agreed to become students of that University, and their frat, they were given rules of conduct. If they felt they were too stringent on their rights to free speech, they could then decide not to go there. Their own decision of remaining a student there, under those rules made them responsible to adhere to them., or suffer the consequences, if they chose not to.

I'm sorry, but they did not live within the code of conduct. When they threw in hanging from a tree, that constitutes a racially hostile environment. It also represents conduct of such a nature a reasonable person would not tolerate it.

If these guys were friends, living off campus and had done this, free speech applies. Representing an organization sanctioned by the university? Not so much. Jmho.

OU has a student code of conduct

21 Mental harassment, being intentional conduct extreme or outrageous, or calculated to cause severe embarrassment, humiliation, shame, fright, grief or intimidation To constitute mental harassment, the conduct must be of such a nature that a reasonable person would not tolerate it.
27 Racial harassment is subjecting any person to differential treatment on the basis of race without legitimate, nondiscriminatory reason When harassment is primarily racial in nature, the provisions of the Racial and Ethnic Harassment Policy shall apply

RACIAL AND ETHNIC HARASSMENT POLICY
I Introduction Diversity is one of the strengths of our society as well as one of the hallmarks of a great university The University of Oklahoma supports diversity and therefore is committed to maintaining employment and educational settings which are multicultural, multiethnic and multiracial Respecting cultural differences and promoting dignity among all members of the University community are responsibilities each of us must share


2 The University shall not subject an individual to different treatment on the basis of race by effectively causing, encouraging, accepting, tolerating or failing to correct a racially hostile environment of which it has notice.

on top of this there are also organization codes of conducts, which are on campus property. (Frat house was on campus property)

No single person was actually harassed. Having your feelings hurt by a video is not being harassed.

That part of the code of conduct is unconstitutional on its face. And I am forgetting the part of the constitution that removes rights from you when you join a fraternity. Care to enlighten me?

Free speech rights are only quashed in very strict circumstances. Joining the military is one, fighting words is another, "yelling fire in a crowded building is another" A bunch of drunk kids singling vile racists songs does not elevate to any of those conditions.

 

[bendog]

All the recent discussion about the OU incident, and the ongoing 2nd amendment discussions has led me to ask this question.

If you say you support the rights of others, does it really count if you only support said rights only when you agree with the expression or content of those rights?

Obviously not. Notice how all the liberal turds in this forum are supporting OU. They believe government has the right to silence speech they find offensive.

Free expression is one thing. These kids were given codes of conduct which they must follow. If they didn't like them, go somewhere else.

A government entity cannot enforce a code of conduct that violates constitutional rights. No person was confronted when those idiots sang that song. No person was directly harassed.

FIRE has been fighting codes like this (and winning) for decades now.

Bullshit Marty. It's not exactly rocket science to realize students, even college students, do not have the same first amendment rights in the university context as adults in free society have. And, even then, you put something on social media your boss doesn't like, they can fire you. You may think you're in an alternate universe, immune to realities of law and commerce, but you're not.

 

[Skylar]

Does an employer have rules of conduct? What happens if someone disregards those rules of conduct, let's say at a party, where you are representative of the employer?
Just because we have free speech, we also agree to have that free speech squashed in certain situations in life. When those students were accepted to and agreed to become students of that University, and their frat, they were given rules of conduct. If they felt they were too stringent on their rights to free speech, they could then decide not to go there. Their own decision of remaining a student there, under those rules made them responsible to adhere to them., or suffer the consequences, if they chose not to.

I'm sorry, but they did not live within the code of conduct. When they threw in hanging from a tree, that constitutes a racially hostile environment. It also represents conduct of such a nature a reasonable person would not tolerate it.

If these guys were friends, living off campus and had done this, free speech applies. Representing an organization sanctioned by the university? Not so much. Jmho.

OU has a student code of conduct

21 Mental harassment, being intentional conduct extreme or outrageous, or calculated to cause severe embarrassment, humiliation, shame, fright, grief or intimidation To constitute mental harassment, the conduct must be of such a nature that a reasonable person would not tolerate it.
27 Racial harassment is subjecting any person to differential treatment on the basis of race without legitimate, nondiscriminatory reason When harassment is primarily racial in nature, the provisions of the Racial and Ethnic Harassment Policy shall apply

RACIAL AND ETHNIC HARASSMENT POLICY
I Introduction Diversity is one of the strengths of our society as well as one of the hallmarks of a great university The University of Oklahoma supports diversity and therefore is committed to maintaining employment and educational settings which are multicultural, multiethnic and multiracial Respecting cultural differences and promoting dignity among all members of the University community are responsibilities each of us must share


2 The University shall not subject an individual to different treatment on the basis of race by effectively causing, encouraging, accepting, tolerating or failing to correct a racially hostile environment of which it has notice.

on top of this there are also organization codes of conducts, which are on campus property. (Frat house was on campus property)

No single person was actually harassed. Having your feelings hurt by a video is not being harassed.

That part of the code of conduct is unconstitutional on its face. And I am forgetting the part of the constitution that removes rights from you when you join a fraternity. Care to enlighten me?

Free speech rights are only quashed in very strict circumstances. Joining the military is one, fighting words is another, "yelling fire in a crowded building is another" A bunch of drunk kids singling vile racists songs does not elevate to any of those conditions.

I agree it doesn't elevate to the level of those conditions. But that kind of speech isn't outlawed. But depending on the circumstances, it can come with consequences.

You have no right to *consequence* free speech. If such were the case, you could tell your boss to gargle your sack in front of important client and he couldn't fire you for it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You have no right to *consequence* free speech. If such were the case, you could tell your boss to gargle your sack in front of important client and he couldn't fire you for it.

Exactly. The speech is free but that doesn't mean you won't pay a price for shooting your mouth off.

 

[depotoo]

So, the University having rules of conduct are totally unenforceable? Why even spend the money to go to the trouble of developing them?
Someone found it offensive within their group, otherwise it would not have made the light of day.

Does an employer have rules of conduct? What happens if someone disregards those rules of conduct, let's say at a party, where you are representative of the employer?
Just because we have free speech, we also agree to have that free speech squashed in certain situations in life. When those students were accepted to and agreed to become students of that University, and their frat, they were given rules of conduct. If they felt they were too stringent on their rights to free speech, they could then decide not to go there. Their own decision of remaining a student there, under those rules made them responsible to adhere to them., or suffer the consequences, if they chose not to.

I'm sorry, but they did not live within the code of conduct. When they threw in hanging from a tree, that constitutes a racially hostile environment. It also represents conduct of such a nature a reasonable person would not tolerate it.

If these guys were friends, living off campus and had done this, free speech applies. Representing an organization sanctioned by the university? Not so much. Jmho.

OU has a student code of conduct

21 Mental harassment, being intentional conduct extreme or outrageous, or calculated to cause severe embarrassment, humiliation, shame, fright, grief or intimidation To constitute mental harassment, the conduct must be of such a nature that a reasonable person would not tolerate it.
27 Racial harassment is subjecting any person to differential treatment on the basis of race without legitimate, nondiscriminatory reason When harassment is primarily racial in nature, the provisions of the Racial and Ethnic Harassment Policy shall apply

RACIAL AND ETHNIC HARASSMENT POLICY
I Introduction Diversity is one of the strengths of our society as well as one of the hallmarks of a great university The University of Oklahoma supports diversity and therefore is committed to maintaining employment and educational settings which are multicultural, multiethnic and multiracial Respecting cultural differences and promoting dignity among all members of the University community are responsibilities each of us must share


2 The University shall not subject an individual to different treatment on the basis of race by effectively causing, encouraging, accepting, tolerating or failing to correct a racially hostile environment of which it has notice.

on top of this there are also organization codes of conducts, which are on campus property. (Frat house was on campus property)

No single person was actually harassed. Having your feelings hurt by a video is not being harassed.

That part of the code of conduct is unconstitutional on its face. And I am forgetting the part of the constitution that removes rights from you when you join a fraternity. Care to enlighten me?

Free speech rights are only quashed in very strict circumstances. Joining the military is one, fighting words is another, "yelling fire in a crowded building is another" A bunch of drunk kids singling vile racists songs does not elevate to any of those conditions.

 

[martybegan]

Does an employer have rules of conduct? What happens if someone disregards those rules of conduct, let's say at a party, where you are representative of the employer?
Just because we have free speech, we also agree to have that free speech squashed in certain situations in life. When those students were accepted to and agreed to become students of that University, and their frat, they were given rules of conduct. If they felt they were too stringent on their rights to free speech, they could then decide not to go there. Their own decision of remaining a student there, under those rules made them responsible to adhere to them., or suffer the consequences, if they chose not to.

I'm sorry, but they did not live within the code of conduct. When they threw in hanging from a tree, that constitutes a racially hostile environment. It also represents conduct of such a nature a reasonable person would not tolerate it.

If these guys were friends, living off campus and had done this, free speech applies. Representing an organization sanctioned by the university? Not so much. Jmho.

No single person was actually harassed. Having your feelings hurt by a video is not being harassed.

That part of the code of conduct is unconstitutional on its face. And I am forgetting the part of the constitution that removes rights from you when you join a fraternity. Care to enlighten me?

Free speech rights are only quashed in very strict circumstances. Joining the military is one, fighting words is another, "yelling fire in a crowded building is another" A bunch of drunk kids singling vile racists songs does not elevate to any of those conditions.

I agree it doesn't elevate to the level of those conditions. But that kind of speech isn't outlawed. But depending on the circumstances, it can come with consequences.

You have no right to *consequence* free speech. If such were the case, you could tell your boss to gargle your sack in front of important client and he couldn't fire you for it.

Please separate private and public functions.

 

[martybegan]

So, the University having rules of conduct are totally unenforceable? Why even spend the money to go to the trouble of developing them?
Someone found it offensive within their group, otherwise it would not have made the light of day.

Does an employer have rules of conduct? What happens if someone disregards those rules of conduct, let's say at a party, where you are representative of the employer?
Just because we have free speech, we also agree to have that free speech squashed in certain situations in life. When those students were accepted to and agreed to become students of that University, and their frat, they were given rules of conduct. If they felt they were too stringent on their rights to free speech, they could then decide not to go there. Their own decision of remaining a student there, under those rules made them responsible to adhere to them., or suffer the consequences, if they chose not to.

I'm sorry, but they did not live within the code of conduct. When they threw in hanging from a tree, that constitutes a racially hostile environment. It also represents conduct of such a nature a reasonable person would not tolerate it.

If these guys were friends, living off campus and had done this, free speech applies. Representing an organization sanctioned by the university? Not so much. Jmho.

No single person was actually harassed. Having your feelings hurt by a video is not being harassed.

That part of the code of conduct is unconstitutional on its face. And I am forgetting the part of the constitution that removes rights from you when you join a fraternity. Care to enlighten me?

Free speech rights are only quashed in very strict circumstances. Joining the military is one, fighting words is another, "yelling fire in a crowded building is another" A bunch of drunk kids singling vile racists songs does not elevate to any of those conditions.

Why do localities like NYC continue to surpress 2nd amendment rights? This is the same thing. Just because someone tries it doesn't mean it is constitutional. F.I.R.E has been getting numerous codes gutted when they suppress rights.

 

[Skylar]

Please separate private and public functions.

Why?

These students were charged with no crimes. The University isn't a law enforcement agency. These kids are free to say whatever they wish. Just not as students of that university.

 

[martybegan]

All the recent discussion about the OU incident, and the ongoing 2nd amendment discussions has led me to ask this question.

If you say you support the rights of others, does it really count if you only support said rights only when you agree with the expression or content of those rights?

Obviously not. Notice how all the liberal turds in this forum are supporting OU. They believe government has the right to silence speech they find offensive.

Free expression is one thing. These kids were given codes of conduct which they must follow. If they didn't like them, go somewhere else.

A government entity cannot enforce a code of conduct that violates constitutional rights. No person was confronted when those idiots sang that song. No person was directly harassed.

FIRE has been fighting codes like this (and winning) for decades now.

Bullshit Marty. It's not exactly rocket science to realize students, even college students, do not have the same first amendment rights in the university context as adults in free society have. And, even then, you put something on social media your boss doesn't like, they can fire you. You may think you're in an alternate universe, immune to realities of law and commerce, but you're not.

They actually have MORE rights than adults do, because they are not employees. And these ARE adults, not minors. You people keep bringing up the worker/employer relationship, where clearly this is not a case of that.

 

[martybegan]

Please separate private and public functions.

Why?

These students were charged with no crimes. The University isn't a law enforcement agency. These kids are free to say whatever they wish. Just not as students of that university.

Public institutions are held to the governmental standards of allowing speech. and just saying "they have not been charged with a crime"
is a cop out. They are being punished for what they said, plain and simple, and government cannot do that unless certain very limited situations apply.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Please separate private and public functions.

Good luck with that.

Example, let's say that I work for Obama and do my job well during the week but on weekends I call him, publicly, a stupid ****** who shouldn't be President, which is my right to say. I have the right alright, I just don't have an income come Monday. See how that works?

 

[Skylar]

Please separate private and public functions.

Why?

These students were charged with no crimes. The University isn't a law enforcement agency. These kids are free to say whatever they wish. Just not as students of that university.

Public institutions are held to the governmental standards of allowing speech. and just saying "they have not been charged with a crime".

Describe these 'government standards of allowing speech'. Specifically.

And preferably with something official backing both the standard and their applicability to a public university.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

All the recent discussion about the OU incident, and the ongoing 2nd amendment discussions has led me to ask this question.

If you say you support the rights of others, does it really count if you only support said rights only when you agree with the expression or content of those rights?

Obviously not. Notice how all the liberal turds in this forum are supporting OU. They believe government has the right to silence speech they find offensive.

Free expression is one thing. These kids were given codes of conduct which they must follow. If they didn't like them, go somewhere else.

A government entity cannot enforce a code of conduct that violates constitutional rights. No person was confronted when those idiots sang that song. No person was directly harassed.

FIRE has been fighting codes like this (and winning) for decades now.

Bullshit Marty. It's not exactly rocket science to realize students, even college students, do not have the same first amendment rights in the university context as adults in free society have. And, even then, you put something on social media your boss doesn't like, they can fire you. You may think you're in an alternate universe, immune to realities of law and commerce, but you're not.

They actually have MORE rights than adults do, because they are not employees. And these ARE adults, not minors. You people keep bringing up the worker/employer relationship, where clearly this is not a case of that.

The limitation placed upon the right of Free Speech is the same. Work for the man, or study under him, and you follow his rules or you go your own way. It's not complicated, it's the real world.

 

[martybegan]

Please separate private and public functions.

Why?

These students were charged with no crimes. The University isn't a law enforcement agency. These kids are free to say whatever they wish. Just not as students of that university.

Public institutions are held to the governmental standards of allowing speech. and just saying "they have not been charged with a crime".

Describe these 'government standards of allowing speech'. Specifically.

Read the linked from the ACLU.

Hate Speech on Campus American Civil Liberties Union

 

[martybegan]

Obviously not. Notice how all the liberal turds in this forum are supporting OU. They believe government has the right to silence speech they find offensive.

Free expression is one thing. These kids were given codes of conduct which they must follow. If they didn't like them, go somewhere else.

A government entity cannot enforce a code of conduct that violates constitutional rights. No person was confronted when those idiots sang that song. No person was directly harassed.

FIRE has been fighting codes like this (and winning) for decades now.

Bullshit Marty. It's not exactly rocket science to realize students, even college students, do not have the same first amendment rights in the university context as adults in free society have. And, even then, you put something on social media your boss doesn't like, they can fire you. You may think you're in an alternate universe, immune to realities of law and commerce, but you're not.

They actually have MORE rights than adults do, because they are not employees. And these ARE adults, not minors. You people keep bringing up the worker/employer relationship, where clearly this is not a case of that.

The limitation placed upon the right of Free Speech is the same. Work for the man, or study under him, and you follow his rules or you go your own way. It's not complicated, it's the real world.

No it isn't. Again, this is not an employer-employee relationship.

 

[martybegan]

Please separate private and public functions.

Good luck with that.

Example, let's say that I work for Obama and do my job well during the week but on weekends I call him, publicly, a stupid ****** who shouldn't be President, which is my right to say. I have the right alright, I just don't have an income come Monday. See how that works?

You serve at the sufferance of Obama, you are not a student at a public university. If you are a civil servant however, you actually would have protections.

 

[Skylar]

Please separate private and public functions.

Why?

These students were charged with no crimes. The University isn't a law enforcement agency. These kids are free to say whatever they wish. Just not as students of that university.

Public institutions are held to the governmental standards of allowing speech. and just saying "they have not been charged with a crime".

Describe these 'government standards of allowing speech'. Specifically.

Read the linked from the ACLU.

Hate Speech on Campus American Civil Liberties Union

That establishes the ACLU's position on the matter. And frankly, I agree with them on their approach. "Verbal purity is not social change' is quite true.

But on the matter of what the public universities are ALLOWED to do related to rights, that's not an 'government standards of allowing free speech'. That's the ACLU's standards of allowing free speech.

And the ACLU isn't the government.