If Racial Dominance Were Reversed...

[Meathead]

"That", you, idiot is a relative pronoun referring to something previously mentioned or already specified if you prefer. Wtf would I write "that" and go on to define what it refers to? Go back and read it one more time in context and with your newly found grammatic knowledge then get back to me.

Sheesh!

Choosing your words more carefully to start with would be a lot easier on you than all this spinning and dancing.

There was nothing wrong with my grammar or articulation. Can't you just admit you were wrong and stop making an ass of yourself?!

Never happen..too much ego and the need for validation, acceptance and belonging is involved..They need to try to save face...the internet is pretty funny...

To tell you the truth I am loathe to admit defeat myself, but then I know when I'm licked,...all over.

 

[Rotagilla]

"That", you, idiot is a relative pronoun referring to something previously mentioned or already specified if you prefer. Wtf would I write "that" and go on to define what it refers to? Go back and read it one more time in context and with your newly found grammatic knowledge then get back to me.

Sheesh!

Choosing your words more carefully to start with would be a lot easier on you than all this spinning and dancing.

There was nothing wrong with my grammar or articulation. Can't you just admit you were wrong and stop making an ass of yourself?!

Never happen..too much ego and the need for validation, acceptance and belonging is involved..They need to try to save face...the internet is pretty funny...

To tell you the truth I am loathe to admit defeat myself, but then I know when I'm licked,...all over.

No one likes defeat...but honest, mature people are able to graciously admit it and move on...Not much of that goes on in here, though.
It's more fun for some of these people to grandstand and play to the crowd than to act like polite adults...oh well..the internet...

 

[JimBowie1958]

Not sure skin colour has anything to do with this, surely it's more about culture, education, religion, etc?

So name one country where blacks are the majority that has a thriving white minority?

South Africa is as close as you can get to that, and with the crime rampant all over the country and whites the target of much of it, I wouldn't call that 'thriving'.

And yet almost every white country of a very wide assortment of cultures in Europe guarantees rights to blacks.

I would say that you claim that race has nothing to do with it is obvious bullshit.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I have never seen that anywhere in the world where whites and blacks cohabitate. ...

Yes you have.

Tell me where in the world blacks have equal or higher socioeconomic status where they live with whites, Asians or pretty much any other group. It is not even in Africa, let alone the rest of the world. Without Asc's flights of fantasy please.

Uganda, Zimbabwe, Haiti, Jamaica.

All equal....in poverty.

 

[Tresha91203]

There's no "some would, some wouldn't and some wouldn't care."

The black family unit used to be strong. No matter the intentions, government played a part in their destruction, IMO. Public housing concentrated in too small spaces where there could not be enough job opportunities contributed as well.

I believe it would be no different if the shoe were on the other foot. If poor whites had been clumped together without enough jobs, then got no assistance if an able bodied man lived in that residence, whites would be facing the exact same thing. I don't see how we would haved fared any better.

Bigotry over skin color we could have gotten over as old people died off. The culture may be what's causing the divide at present, but that didn't happen in some black vacuum.

South Africa is a horrible example, BTW.

 

[Rikurzhen]

What I'm saying is that under all our overt physical "differences" we are all Homo Sapiens Sapiens, the same species. "Race" is a relatively modern construct that has been thoroughly debunked and is considered obsolete.

Who fed you that line of garbage, a sociologist or a cultural anthropologist? African blacks are the only homo sapiens sapiens on the earth. Everyone else is a hybrid of homo sapiens sapiens, homo neanderthalensis and homo denisova.

 

[Rikurzhen]

The black family unit used to be strong.

Indeed it did.

No matter the intentions, government played a part in their destruction, IMO. Public housing concentrated in too small spaces where there could not be enough job opportunities contributed as well.

The concentration in public housing did play a part but not for the reason you specify. We do have roads and buses and such here in America. These projects weren't built out on Gilligan's Island. The problem with the projects was the concentration of social dysfunction into one area. Any black who had his wits about him moved away to escape the social dysfunction, so the LCD kept getting shifted lower and lower. That's toxic for the residents. There is however no alternative because if you disperse the social dysfunction you visit upon innocent communities and so shift the harm to others.

I believe it would be no different if the shoe were on the other foot.

I think that you're wrong. Whites have higher human capital levels. Right now, white student who qualify for school lunch subsidy (poor students) from homes where the mother is a high school drop-out perform about as well as black students who do not qualify for school lunch subsidy (not poor) and whose mothers are college graduates.

If poor whites had been clumped together without enough jobs, then got no assistance if an able bodied man lived in that residence, whites would be facing the exact same thing. I don't see how we would haved fared any better.

Let history be your guide. Whites did start out dirt poor in prehistoric Europe and they built Europe. Africans didn't build Africa. White immigrants came to America with nothing and excelled, blacks still can't get it together, even compared to people like the Vietnamese who came to settle in a hostile land where many viewed them as killers of American boys, where they didn't speak the language, where they didn't have special handouts just for them, and they've surpassed the achievements of African Americans who've been born here, know the language, been educated here, have all sorts of special programs aimed at helping them.

Bigotry over skin color we could have gotten over as old people died off. The culture may be what's causing the divide at present, but that didn't happen in some black vacuum.

Bigotry exists for a reason, it's not just some random set of beliefs.

South Africa is a horrible example, BTW.

Why is it a horrible example? Just saying something isn't an argument.

 

[Challenger]

I have never seen that anywhere in the world where whites and blacks cohabitate. ...

Yes you have.

Tell me where in the world blacks have equal or higher socioeconomic status where they live with whites, Asians or pretty much any other group. It is not even in Africa, let alone the rest of the world. Without Asc's flights of fantasy please.

Uganda, Zimbabwe, Haiti, Jamaica.

All equal....in poverty.

But equal, nevertheless.

 

[Unkotare]

White immigrants came to America with nothing and excelled,...

Immigrants of every color and from every corner of the globe have come here and excelled, you stupid douche.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I have never seen that anywhere in the world where whites and blacks cohabitate. ...

Yes you have.

Tell me where in the world blacks have equal or higher socioeconomic status where they live with whites, Asians or pretty much any other group. It is not even in Africa, let alone the rest of the world. Without Asc's flights of fantasy please.

Uganda, Zimbabwe, Haiti, Jamaica.

All equal....in poverty.

But equal, nevertheless.

Corpses are all equal too.

You like that idea?

lol

 

[Meathead]

I have never seen that anywhere in the world where whites and blacks cohabitate. ...

Yes you have.

Tell me where in the world blacks have equal or higher socioeconomic status where they live with whites, Asians or pretty much any other group. It is not even in Africa, let alone the rest of the world. Without Asc's flights of fantasy please.

Uganda, Zimbabwe, Haiti, Jamaica.

All equal....in poverty.

No, even there the few non-blacks are much better off. In fact, Haiti, Zimbabwe and Uganda pretty much impoverished themselves by chasing them out in earlier examples of what we now call ethnic cleansing.

 

[Tresha91203]

Indeed it did.



The concentration in public housing did play a part but not for the reason you specify. We do have roads and buses and such here in America. These projects weren't built out on Gilligan's Island. The problem with the projects was the concentration of social dysfunction into one area. Any black who had his wits about him moved away to escape the social dysfunction, so the LCD kept getting shifted lower and lower. That's toxic for the residents. There is however no alternative because if you disperse the social dysfunction you visit upon innocent communities and so shift the harm to others.



I think that you're wrong. Whites have higher human capital levels. Right now, white student who qualify for school lunch subsidy (poor students) from homes where the mother is a high school drop-out perform about as well as black students who do not qualify for school lunch subsidy (not poor) and whose mothers are college graduates.

<snipped chart for brevity>

Let history be your guide. Whites did start out dirt poor in prehistoric Europe and they built Europe. Africans didn't build Africa. White immigrants came to America with nothing and excelled, blacks still can't get it together, even compared to people like the Vietnamese who came to settle in a hostile land where many viewed them as killers of American boys, where they didn't speak the language, where they didn't have special handouts just for them, and they've surpassed the achievements of African Americans who've been born here, know the language, been educated here, have all sorts of special programs aimed at helping them.



Bigotry exists for a reason, it's not just some random set of beliefs.



Why is it a horrible example? Just saying something isn't an argument.

Because of apartheid. Anger and bitterness do not disappear in a generation.

I understand anectodal evidence means squat on the internet, but my life experiences shape my views. I live around and work with a lot of black people. I also live around and work with a lot of coonasses (our version of rednecks). I don't see much difference in aggression rates.

I tend to hang with educated, family oriented people. Educated, family oriented black people are generally nice to be around, much like educated, family oriented white people. Thugs are often aggressive, but then so are Bubbas.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[Godboy]

The black community isn't capable of handling the responsibility of being the majority. Not at this time anyway. There is too much racism in that community, and they simply wouldn't care enough about the rights of anyone who isn't black. Its much easier for a black student in an all white school than it is for a white student in an all black school. You can expect that white kid to be faced with racism multiple times per day.

 

[Rikurzhen]

Because of apartheid. Anger and bitterness do not disappear in a generation.

I'm losing sight of exactly that point we're talking about here. I don't see what anger and bitterness which may result from apartheid have to do with the topic. Can you expand your thoughts on this.

Here's what I see happening in South Africa after blacks took control of society:

At first, the power blackouts seemed a mere nuisance, the electricity suddenly dead for two or three hours at a time, two or three times a day. Radio announcers jocularly advised listeners to make their morning toast by vigorously rubbing two pieces of bread together and wisecracked about amorous uses for the extra darkness.

But after three weeks of chronic failures —after regularly irregular vexations with lifeless computers, stove tops and stoplights — public forbearance has given way to outrage. This nation, long a reliable repository of cheap, plentiful electricity, finds itself pitifully short of juice.

The government has confessed to an “electricity emergency” and has begun a program of rationing for industrial users. This is a mortifying turn for a country that considers itself the powerhouse of Africa and resists comparisons to its underdeveloped, famine-plagued neighbors.

But electricity shortages, now expected to be a fact of life for the next five years, are more than an embarrassment. They threaten continued strong growth here in a nation that accounts for a third of sub-Saharan Africa’s economic output and ranks among the world’s top 25 countries in gross domestic product. . . .

One of this nation’s largest employers, the mining industry, virtually halted production for four days last week because Eskom, the dominant, government-controlled utility, could not guarantee enough power to ventilate and cool the deep underground shafts. Companies that mine gold and platinum restarted production only on Tuesday after emergency negotiations with Eskom, South Africa’s Chamber of Mines said.

“The shutdown of the mining industry is an extraordinary, unprecedented event,” said Anton Eberhard, a business school professor at the University of Cape Town and an energy expert. “That’s a powerful message, massively damaging to South Africa’s reputation for new investment. Our country was built on the mines.”

The current crisis stems from Eskom’s lack of capacity to generate enough power, and its inability to keep many of its plants working. . .

“The warnings were well-known, but the government was too aloof and arrogant to act,” said William Mervin Gumede, the author of “Thabo Mbeki and the Battle for the Soul of the A.N.C.” (Zebra Press, 2005, with a revised edition in 2007). “This is simply disastrous for the economy. You can throw out all the goals of 6 percent economic growth.”

South Africans are appalled by the daily interruptions to their lives. Workers sit idle, televisions flick into darkness and silence, elevators stall between floors, gas stations cannot pump, cakes remain forever half-baked. Every intersection with disabled traffic lights becomes a four-way stop, with drivers in each direction maddeningly delayed as the endless lines of cars inch forward.​

Whites built a powerhouse of a nation in South Africa. Blacks took over and a.) they can't do regular maintenance on the generating equipment and so now they can't keep what they have working, and b.) they can't plan adequately for future increased production. An "electricity emergency" doesn't just pop up, it is an event that takes years to develop.

Moreover, this isn't just one bad apple at the top, plant managers don't need the OK of Mbeki to do regular maintenance. What we're seeing in South Africa is rapid degradation. They start from on high but are now sliding. They're definitely bouyed by their mining industry and this is producing economic growth but that's more a gift of nature than the result of good management.

 

[Swagger]

Don't forget the fate of Rhodesia after it became Zimbabwe, Rikurzhen.

 

[Tresha91203]

I don't assume that has to do with race. I'd chalk that up to inexperience and growing pains. The black chemical engineers, board operators and field operators at our numerous chemical plants in Louisiana do as well as the whites. Our plant in Trinidad does just as well as the ones in the US and Canada, and it is about a third African, a third Indian and a third mixed race of the two.

There are a lot of factors that contribute to success vs failure. Education, experience and opportunity would be the big 3, IMO. There is no way to remove all variables but race. If there were, I believe there would be little difference in outcomes. Like I said, your mileage may vary. I deal mostly with educated, family oriented people of 3 races, and that is what has formed my world view. My opinion of thugs and (what I call) Bubbas is pretty low, but similar to each other.

 

[Rikurzhen]

I don't assume that has to do with race. I'd chalk that up to inexperience and growing pains. The black chemical engineers, board operators and field operators at our numerous chemical plants in Louisiana do as well as the whites. Our plant in Trinidad does just as well as the ones in the US and Canada, and it is about a third African, a third Indian and a third mixed race of the two.

There are a lot of factors that contribute to success vs failure. Education, experience and opportunity would be the big 3, IMO. There is no way to remove all variables but race. If there were, I believe there would be little difference in outcomes. Like I said, your mileage may vary. I deal mostly with educated, family oriented people of 3 races, and that is what has formed my world view. My opinion of thugs and (what I call) Bubbas is pretty low, but similar to each other.

In your initial response to me you snipped this chart for brevity, but why not take a moment and address these national results because they, to me at least, undercut your position that there would be little difference in outcomes. How can it be that a poor white student who is getting a school lunch subsidy and who is being raised in a family of high school dropouts matches the performance of middle class and higher black students whose parents went to college. What's going on here?

 

[Tresha91203]

There may be many factors. Perhaps those poor, white mothers value education and the poor, black children are mocked when they "act white." Perhaps standardized tests are geared towards white people. Perhaps those black children have not had generations of successful role models. I really don't know.

You believe blacks are biologically less intelligent or maybe less evolved or enlightened. I don't believe so but it really doesn't matter to me. They are no less American, they are not less deserving of strong families, education, opportunity and experience.

The thugs and Bubbas are equally distasteful to me. If blacks were somehow less than whites, the Bubbas are an inexcusable disgrace while thugs are to be expected, and successful blacks are stellar while successful whites are to be expected. I just don't believe it. I am 46, live in the deep south, and it just has not been my experience.

 

[Rikurzhen]

There may be many factors. Perhaps those poor, white mothers value education and the poor, black children are mocked when they "act white." Perhaps standardized tests are geared towards white people. Perhaps those black children have not had generations of successful role models. I really don't know.

So back to the topic of the debate, if any of what you wrote holds true, then wouldn't that seriously disrupt the trajectories in a world where blacks were the upper class and the whites were the lower class?

 

[Tresha91203]

I thought the debate was if they were the dominant race from the beginning, not if they became the dominant race. Did I misunderstand?