If President Trump Does Not Pardon Julian Assange, Then Trump Was Deep State After All

surada

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I thought "take guns first, go through due process second'' was prety much the dead giveaway.
Heck yeah, that was one of them. But for me it was his continual praising of the Clintons in numerous interviews, before he became president. I'm sorry, but no true patriot or conservative would ever heap praise on the Clintons, and not just once, or out of politeness, but heaps of praise in multiple interviews. That's when I knew he was bad news. :nono:

ETA: and I don't buy that he changed from a New York Democrat to a conservative Republican... this video shows how sincere he was about things like "lock her up"

Hahahaha.. Great video.. Trump will be going to prison.
As bad as Trump was, Hillary likely would have been worse.
Not only was Hillary responsible for all the use of force in the Mideast, with her fake "Arab Spring" in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., but she is the one who started the health care mandate of private health insurance instead of a public option, and she was involve in the 1994 federal crime bill that included the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes, and things that prevent large portions of Blacks from voting.
It's hilarious how it's thought people talk about Trump too much saying we have him on the brain too much! These same people who think we won't have anything to talk about now because he's exited the stage, I look at those fools and just say one think; "HILLARY!" Her name is invoked every single day in some form; esp. on FNC! It's more than a little sad for that hypocritical reason alone! We already have gone thru a horrendous time with Trump who actually fk'd up BIG TIME, now we're going to assume Hillary would have been worse! Yep, makes all kinds of sense! :smartass:
Proud Boys are calling Trump a failure, a shill and a weakling and they are furious that he didn't pardon their guys that participated in his attack on the Capitol.
If Frump had been crazy enough to pardon any of those demonstrators from Jan. 6th, it would guarantee his conviction in the Senate! It's already on video how he incited those animals who went and attacked the Capitol Building! He has no shame; even when it came out Pence's life was in jeapardy! That's what happens when you make deals with psychos so I have no sympathy for any enabler of Trump! :stir:
That is stupid.
I dislike Trump, but obviously Congress is far worse, with things like the illegal Joint Resolution of the Use of Force in Iraq, the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes laws, gun control, etc.
Congress deserves not just being occupied, but burned down.
The US invasion of Iraq was what Bibi Netanyahu demanded in Clean Break Strategy.. He also demanded the isolation and destabilization of Syria.. .. Of course the Republicans gave him what he wanted.
War is totally under congressional control.
It was democrats in congress that approved and continually funded the illegal war in Iraq.
They pass the Joint Resolution for the Use of Force in Iraq.
Hillary was the main supporter.
That's a lie.. Cheney was cherry picking the intel .... The Brits had set up Operation Mass Appeal in 1997 or early 1998 to sell the war under Sir Derek Pumbly.

The whole plan was based on Clean Break Strategy.
 

Rigby5

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I thought "take guns first, go through due process second'' was prety much the dead giveaway.
Heck yeah, that was one of them. But for me it was his continual praising of the Clintons in numerous interviews, before he became president. I'm sorry, but no true patriot or conservative would ever heap praise on the Clintons, and not just once, or out of politeness, but heaps of praise in multiple interviews. That's when I knew he was bad news. :nono:

ETA: and I don't buy that he changed from a New York Democrat to a conservative Republican... this video shows how sincere he was about things like "lock her up"

Hahahaha.. Great video.. Trump will be going to prison.
As bad as Trump was, Hillary likely would have been worse.
Not only was Hillary responsible for all the use of force in the Mideast, with her fake "Arab Spring" in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., but she is the one who started the health care mandate of private health insurance instead of a public option, and she was involve in the 1994 federal crime bill that included the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes, and things that prevent large portions of Blacks from voting.
It's hilarious how it's thought people talk about Trump too much saying we have him on the brain too much! These same people who think we won't have anything to talk about now because he's exited the stage, I look at those fools and just say one think; "HILLARY!" Her name is invoked every single day in some form; esp. on FNC! It's more than a little sad for that hypocritical reason alone! We already have gone thru a horrendous time with Trump who actually fk'd up BIG TIME, now we're going to assume Hillary would have been worse! Yep, makes all kinds of sense! :smartass:
Proud Boys are calling Trump a failure, a shill and a weakling and they are furious that he didn't pardon their guys that participated in his attack on the Capitol.
If Frump had been crazy enough to pardon any of those demonstrators from Jan. 6th, it would guarantee his conviction in the Senate! It's already on video how he incited those animals to went and attacked the Capitol Building! He has no shame; even when it came out Pence's life was in jeapardy! That's what happens when you make deals with psychos so I have no sympathy for any enabler of Trump! :stir:
I agree. Trump truly is a traitor.. ..He wants to win at any cost..
Compared to whom?
I do not like Trump, but Hillary was the one with the illegal "Arab Spring" lies that lead to the US committing mass murder. Not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc. Even the economic embargo on Iraq and Russia are war crimes, against the 1906 Geneva Conventions that prohibit civilian economic warfare.
In comparison, Trump comes off as pure as the driven snow.
(Not that I would ever vote for him though, as long as I can vote Green Party.)
LOLOL.. The US had NOTHING to do with the Arab Spring.

Bush invaded Afghanistan to try and save ENRON and their 2 billion dollar Dabhol Project.

Trump isn't pure, just stupid.. He knows absolutely nothing about Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq or Afghanistan.
Sorry, but you are wrong.
You are not normally wrong that much, but you need to do more research.
The original Arab Spring concept was not created by Hillary, and it started in Tunisia.
But it was Hillary who took the idea and started funding rebel groups in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Lebanon, etc.
What do you think ambassador Stevens was doing in Benghazi?
The CIA had a warehouse full of weapons and money there, that the US was handing out hand over fist.
We likely were mostly giving the arms and money to al Qaeda and ISIS sympathizers.
That may sound stupid, but al Qaeda and ISIS were fake fronts we wanted, so that we could then have excuses to invade places like Syria, where were wanted to end Russian influence.
The Arab Spring everywhere but Tunisia was all the US.
And in Tunisia it was not known as the Arab Spring, but the Jasmine Spring.
Just look at the damage we did in Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc.
What the US did was horrific.
I used to live across from the US Embassy in Tripoli.. A guy set himself on fire in Tunisia.

The CIA annex was a listening post .. and just about everyone who worked there were translators, communications officers and computer guys. The objective was to try and identify Western tribes who might back a return to the Idris Constitution,, which was positively enlightened.

Libya was awash in arms.. Gadaffi had been on a three year multibillion dollar spending spree buying weapons... and both his military and police were mercenaries (foreign nationals) They threw down their weapons and ran ..

Benghazi was always pretty dangerous.. The Eastern tribes had hated Gadaffi for over 40 years.

It was a situation ripe for ISIS.. a few ISIS had already arrived in Eastern Libya seeking sanctuary from the fray.

Gadaffi was a bad actor.. He was uneducated, grandiose, vain and always threatening to assassinate some Arab leader for slights real and imagines. He threw out their constitution and took credit for the programs developed by Idris. He hired Tariki, nearly killed the Libyan oil business and got rid of Wheelus and Tobruk.

He was a Libyan Donald Trump. Dumb as shit.
We were not talking about the CIA annex in Tripoli, but the one in Benghazi where Stevens was meeting with dissidents.
The people in Benghazi were not mostly Libyan, but instead Iraqi, Palestinian, Syrian, etc., dissidents who were displaced.
The whole point of Stevens being there was to recruit, arm, and fund the fake "Arab Spring" that Hillary created.

And no, Qaddafi was not the worst actor.
He was the puppet picked by the southern Hill People elders.
He was the best anyone could have done there, considering.
We should not have taken him out.
And his foreign mercenaries did not flee.
They were trapped and wiped out by US air power, using air/fuel dispersion bombs in the desert.
These bombs have a kill radius of over half a mile.
We killed tens of thousands, on their way to Benghazi.
 

Rigby5

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I thought "take guns first, go through due process second'' was prety much the dead giveaway.
Heck yeah, that was one of them. But for me it was his continual praising of the Clintons in numerous interviews, before he became president. I'm sorry, but no true patriot or conservative would ever heap praise on the Clintons, and not just once, or out of politeness, but heaps of praise in multiple interviews. That's when I knew he was bad news. :nono:

ETA: and I don't buy that he changed from a New York Democrat to a conservative Republican... this video shows how sincere he was about things like "lock her up"

Hahahaha.. Great video.. Trump will be going to prison.
As bad as Trump was, Hillary likely would have been worse.
Not only was Hillary responsible for all the use of force in the Mideast, with her fake "Arab Spring" in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., but she is the one who started the health care mandate of private health insurance instead of a public option, and she was involve in the 1994 federal crime bill that included the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes, and things that prevent large portions of Blacks from voting.
It's hilarious how it's thought people talk about Trump too much saying we have him on the brain too much! These same people who think we won't have anything to talk about now because he's exited the stage, I look at those fools and just say one think; "HILLARY!" Her name is invoked every single day in some form; esp. on FNC! It's more than a little sad for that hypocritical reason alone! We already have gone thru a horrendous time with Trump who actually fk'd up BIG TIME, now we're going to assume Hillary would have been worse! Yep, makes all kinds of sense! :smartass:
Proud Boys are calling Trump a failure, a shill and a weakling and they are furious that he didn't pardon their guys that participated in his attack on the Capitol.
If Frump had been crazy enough to pardon any of those demonstrators from Jan. 6th, it would guarantee his conviction in the Senate! It's already on video how he incited those animals who went and attacked the Capitol Building! He has no shame; even when it came out Pence's life was in jeapardy! That's what happens when you make deals with psychos so I have no sympathy for any enabler of Trump! :stir:
That is stupid.
I dislike Trump, but obviously Congress is far worse, with things like the illegal Joint Resolution of the Use of Force in Iraq, the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes laws, gun control, etc.
Congress deserves not just being occupied, but burned down.
The US invasion of Iraq was what Bibi Netanyahu demanded in Clean Break Strategy.. He also demanded the isolation and destabilization of Syria.. .. Of course the Republicans gave him what he wanted.
War is totally under congressional control.
It was democrats in congress that approved and continually funded the illegal war in Iraq.
They pass the Joint Resolution for the Use of Force in Iraq.
Hillary was the main supporter.
That's a lie.. Cheney was cherry picking the intel .... The Brits had set up Operation Mass Appeal in 1997 or early 1998 to sell the war under Sir Derek Pumbly.

The whole plan was based on Clean Break Strategy.
If the WMD lies were totally under executive control so poor little congress did not know, then how come I knew?
I read ambassador Wilson, Valorie Plame, General Fulford Jr., the Germans, the French, the Russians, etc., all say the WMD claims were totally false.
Congress had to know.
Hillary had to know.

The whole world and all historical sources told everyone that Saddam was actually a loyal US ally who never did anything against us at all.
Only Israel has any beef with Saddam.
The world would be a much better place if Saddam and Qaddafi were still in power, just as Assad is.
 

surada

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I thought "take guns first, go through due process second'' was prety much the dead giveaway.
Heck yeah, that was one of them. But for me it was his continual praising of the Clintons in numerous interviews, before he became president. I'm sorry, but no true patriot or conservative would ever heap praise on the Clintons, and not just once, or out of politeness, but heaps of praise in multiple interviews. That's when I knew he was bad news. :nono:

ETA: and I don't buy that he changed from a New York Democrat to a conservative Republican... this video shows how sincere he was about things like "lock her up"

Hahahaha.. Great video.. Trump will be going to prison.
As bad as Trump was, Hillary likely would have been worse.
Not only was Hillary responsible for all the use of force in the Mideast, with her fake "Arab Spring" in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., but she is the one who started the health care mandate of private health insurance instead of a public option, and she was involve in the 1994 federal crime bill that included the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes, and things that prevent large portions of Blacks from voting.
It's hilarious how it's thought people talk about Trump too much saying we have him on the brain too much! These same people who think we won't have anything to talk about now because he's exited the stage, I look at those fools and just say one think; "HILLARY!" Her name is invoked every single day in some form; esp. on FNC! It's more than a little sad for that hypocritical reason alone! We already have gone thru a horrendous time with Trump who actually fk'd up BIG TIME, now we're going to assume Hillary would have been worse! Yep, makes all kinds of sense! :smartass:
Proud Boys are calling Trump a failure, a shill and a weakling and they are furious that he didn't pardon their guys that participated in his attack on the Capitol.
If Frump had been crazy enough to pardon any of those demonstrators from Jan. 6th, it would guarantee his conviction in the Senate! It's already on video how he incited those animals who went and attacked the Capitol Building! He has no shame; even when it came out Pence's life was in jeapardy! That's what happens when you make deals with psychos so I have no sympathy for any enabler of Trump! :stir:
That is stupid.
I dislike Trump, but obviously Congress is far worse, with things like the illegal Joint Resolution of the Use of Force in Iraq, the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes laws, gun control, etc.
Congress deserves not just being occupied, but burned down.
The US invasion of Iraq was what Bibi Netanyahu demanded in Clean Break Strategy.. He also demanded the isolation and destabilization of Syria.. .. Of course the Republicans gave him what he wanted.
War is totally under congressional control.
It was democrats in congress that approved and continually funded the illegal war in Iraq.
They pass the Joint Resolution for the Use of Force in Iraq.
Hillary was the main supporter.
That's a lie.. Cheney was cherry picking the intel .... The Brits had set up Operation Mass Appeal in 1997 or early 1998 to sell the war under Sir Derek Pumbly.

The whole plan was based on Clean Break Strategy.
If the WMD lies were totally under executive control so poor little congress did not know, then how come I knew?
I read ambassador Wilson, Valorie Plame, General Fulford Jr., the Germans, the French, the Russians, etc., all say the WMD claims were totally false.
Congress had to know.
Hillary had to know.

The whole world and all historical sources told everyone that Saddam was actually a loyal US ally who never did anything against us at all.
Only Israel has any beef with Saddam.
The world would be a much better place if Saddam and Qaddafi were still in power, just as Assad is.
I knew there were no WMDs. Iraq was crippled by two decades of war and sanctions. Saddam didn't want Iran to know just how broken they were. Diplomats, historians, Arabs, oilmen and all US expats in the ME knew is was a FUBAR. Arabia and the Emirates were begging Saddam to come to their countries in exile right up to the invasion.

Yes, Israel was keen to overthrow Saddam.. and destabilize Syria. Look at the dual citizen signatories on the PNAC letter to Bill Clinton in 1998.

Blaming Hillary for the Arab Spring is dumber than dumb. If the US could have kept Gaddafi and Mubarak in power short of a massive occupation force we would have loved to maintain the status quo.
 

surada

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I thought "take guns first, go through due process second'' was prety much the dead giveaway.
Heck yeah, that was one of them. But for me it was his continual praising of the Clintons in numerous interviews, before he became president. I'm sorry, but no true patriot or conservative would ever heap praise on the Clintons, and not just once, or out of politeness, but heaps of praise in multiple interviews. That's when I knew he was bad news. :nono:

ETA: and I don't buy that he changed from a New York Democrat to a conservative Republican... this video shows how sincere he was about things like "lock her up"

Hahahaha.. Great video.. Trump will be going to prison.
As bad as Trump was, Hillary likely would have been worse.
Not only was Hillary responsible for all the use of force in the Mideast, with her fake "Arab Spring" in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., but she is the one who started the health care mandate of private health insurance instead of a public option, and she was involve in the 1994 federal crime bill that included the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes, and things that prevent large portions of Blacks from voting.
It's hilarious how it's thought people talk about Trump too much saying we have him on the brain too much! These same people who think we won't have anything to talk about now because he's exited the stage, I look at those fools and just say one think; "HILLARY!" Her name is invoked every single day in some form; esp. on FNC! It's more than a little sad for that hypocritical reason alone! We already have gone thru a horrendous time with Trump who actually fk'd up BIG TIME, now we're going to assume Hillary would have been worse! Yep, makes all kinds of sense! :smartass:
Proud Boys are calling Trump a failure, a shill and a weakling and they are furious that he didn't pardon their guys that participated in his attack on the Capitol.
If Frump had been crazy enough to pardon any of those demonstrators from Jan. 6th, it would guarantee his conviction in the Senate! It's already on video how he incited those animals to went and attacked the Capitol Building! He has no shame; even when it came out Pence's life was in jeapardy! That's what happens when you make deals with psychos so I have no sympathy for any enabler of Trump! :stir:
I agree. Trump truly is a traitor.. ..He wants to win at any cost..
Compared to whom?
I do not like Trump, but Hillary was the one with the illegal "Arab Spring" lies that lead to the US committing mass murder. Not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc. Even the economic embargo on Iraq and Russia are war crimes, against the 1906 Geneva Conventions that prohibit civilian economic warfare.
In comparison, Trump comes off as pure as the driven snow.
(Not that I would ever vote for him though, as long as I can vote Green Party.)
LOLOL.. The US had NOTHING to do with the Arab Spring.

Bush invaded Afghanistan to try and save ENRON and their 2 billion dollar Dabhol Project.

Trump isn't pure, just stupid.. He knows absolutely nothing about Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq or Afghanistan.
Sorry, but you are wrong.
You are not normally wrong that much, but you need to do more research.
The original Arab Spring concept was not created by Hillary, and it started in Tunisia.
But it was Hillary who took the idea and started funding rebel groups in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Lebanon, etc.
What do you think ambassador Stevens was doing in Benghazi?
The CIA had a warehouse full of weapons and money there, that the US was handing out hand over fist.
We likely were mostly giving the arms and money to al Qaeda and ISIS sympathizers.
That may sound stupid, but al Qaeda and ISIS were fake fronts we wanted, so that we could then have excuses to invade places like Syria, where were wanted to end Russian influence.
The Arab Spring everywhere but Tunisia was all the US.
And in Tunisia it was not known as the Arab Spring, but the Jasmine Spring.
Just look at the damage we did in Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc.
What the US did was horrific.
I used to live across from the US Embassy in Tripoli.. A guy set himself on fire in Tunisia.

The CIA annex was a listening post .. and just about everyone who worked there were translators, communications officers and computer guys. The objective was to try and identify Western tribes who might back a return to the Idris Constitution,, which was positively enlightened.

Libya was awash in arms.. Gadaffi had been on a three year multibillion dollar spending spree buying weapons... and both his military and police were mercenaries (foreign nationals) They threw down their weapons and ran ..

Benghazi was always pretty dangerous.. The Eastern tribes had hated Gadaffi for over 40 years.

It was a situation ripe for ISIS.. a few ISIS had already arrived in Eastern Libya seeking sanctuary from the fray.

Gadaffi was a bad actor.. He was uneducated, grandiose, vain and always threatening to assassinate some Arab leader for slights real and imagines. He threw out their constitution and took credit for the programs developed by Idris. He hired Tariki, nearly killed the Libyan oil business and got rid of Wheelus and Tobruk.

He was a Libyan Donald Trump. Dumb as shit.
We were not talking about the CIA annex in Tripoli, but the one in Benghazi where Stevens was meeting with dissidents.
The people in Benghazi were not mostly Libyan, but instead Iraqi, Palestinian, Syrian, etc., dissidents who were displaced.
The whole point of Stevens being there was to recruit, arm, and fund the fake "Arab Spring" that Hillary created.

And no, Qaddafi was not the worst actor.
He was the puppet picked by the southern Hill People elders.
He was the best anyone could have done there, considering.
We should not have taken him out.
And his foreign mercenaries did not flee.
They were trapped and wiped out by US air power, using air/fuel dispersion bombs in the desert.
These bombs have a kill radius of over half a mile.
We killed tens of thousands, on their way to Benghazi.
Qaddafi came to power in late 1969 when Idris was out of the country.


In August of 1969 King Idris of Libya was in Turkey for medical treatment. On September 1, 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. The coup was launched in Benghazi, mostly by members of the Libyan Signal Corps. The crown prince, Sayyid Hasan ar-Rida al-Mahdi as-Sanussi, Idris' nephew, was placed under house arrest. The Free Officers Movement, as the coup leaders were referred to, declared an end to monarchy in Libya and renamed the country the Libyan Arab Republic.

The Movement quickly evolved into the Revolutionary Command Council which on September 7, 1969, announced that it had formed a cabinet to conduct the business of the government of the new republic. The following day, the RCC promoted Captain Muammar al-Gaddafi to colonel and appointed him commander in chief of the Libyan Armed Forces, making him the new de facto head of state.

While working on domestic policy reforms, the RCC made several declarations covering its relationship with other nations. It announced that it would be neutral in the Cold War confrontation between the United States and the Soviet Union. It said it would oppose all forms of colonialism and imperialism. It announced its opposition to the State of Israel. The RCC kept in effect the ban on political parties in Libya instituted in 1952.

In August of 1969 King Idris of Libya was in Turkey for medical treatment. On September 1, 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état.

I thought "take guns first, go through due process second'' was prety much the dead giveaway.
Heck yeah, that was one of them. But for me it was his continual praising of the Clintons in numerous interviews, before he became president. I'm sorry, but no true patriot or conservative would ever heap praise on the Clintons, and not just once, or out of politeness, but heaps of praise in multiple interviews. That's when I knew he was bad news. :nono:

ETA: and I don't buy that he changed from a New York Democrat to a conservative Republican... this video shows how sincere he was about things like "lock her up"

Hahahaha.. Great video.. Trump will be going to prison.
As bad as Trump was, Hillary likely would have been worse.
Not only was Hillary responsible for all the use of force in the Mideast, with her fake "Arab Spring" in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., but she is the one who started the health care mandate of private health insurance instead of a public option, and she was involve in the 1994 federal crime bill that included the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes, and things that prevent large portions of Blacks from voting.
It's hilarious how it's thought people talk about Trump too much saying we have him on the brain too much! These same people who think we won't have anything to talk about now because he's exited the stage, I look at those fools and just say one think; "HILLARY!" Her name is invoked every single day in some form; esp. on FNC! It's more than a little sad for that hypocritical reason alone! We already have gone thru a horrendous time with Trump who actually fk'd up BIG TIME, now we're going to assume Hillary would have been worse! Yep, makes all kinds of sense! :smartass:
Proud Boys are calling Trump a failure, a shill and a weakling and they are furious that he didn't pardon their guys that participated in his attack on the Capitol.
If Frump had been crazy enough to pardon any of those demonstrators from Jan. 6th, it would guarantee his conviction in the Senate! It's already on video how he incited those animals to went and attacked the Capitol Building! He has no shame; even when it came out Pence's life was in jeapardy! That's what happens when you make deals with psychos so I have no sympathy for any enabler of Trump! :stir:
I agree. Trump truly is a traitor.. ..He wants to win at any cost..
Compared to whom?
I do not like Trump, but Hillary was the one with the illegal "Arab Spring" lies that lead to the US committing mass murder. Not just in Iraq and Afghanistan, but Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc. Even the economic embargo on Iraq and Russia are war crimes, against the 1906 Geneva Conventions that prohibit civilian economic warfare.
In comparison, Trump comes off as pure as the driven snow.
(Not that I would ever vote for him though, as long as I can vote Green Party.)
LOLOL.. The US had NOTHING to do with the Arab Spring.

Bush invaded Afghanistan to try and save ENRON and their 2 billion dollar Dabhol Project.

Trump isn't pure, just stupid.. He knows absolutely nothing about Syria, Libya, Egypt, Iraq or Afghanistan.
Sorry, but you are wrong.
You are not normally wrong that much, but you need to do more research.
The original Arab Spring concept was not created by Hillary, and it started in Tunisia.
But it was Hillary who took the idea and started funding rebel groups in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iran, Lebanon, etc.
What do you think ambassador Stevens was doing in Benghazi?
The CIA had a warehouse full of weapons and money there, that the US was handing out hand over fist.
We likely were mostly giving the arms and money to al Qaeda and ISIS sympathizers.
That may sound stupid, but al Qaeda and ISIS were fake fronts we wanted, so that we could then have excuses to invade places like Syria, where were wanted to end Russian influence.
The Arab Spring everywhere but Tunisia was all the US.
And in Tunisia it was not known as the Arab Spring, but the Jasmine Spring.
Just look at the damage we did in Libya, Egypt, Syria, etc.
What the US did was horrific.
I used to live across from the US Embassy in Tripoli.. A guy set himself on fire in Tunisia.

The CIA annex was a listening post .. and just about everyone who worked there were translators, communications officers and computer guys. The objective was to try and identify Western tribes who might back a return to the Idris Constitution,, which was positively enlightened.

Libya was awash in arms.. Gadaffi had been on a three year multibillion dollar spending spree buying weapons... and both his military and police were mercenaries (foreign nationals) They threw down their weapons and ran ..

Benghazi was always pretty dangerous.. The Eastern tribes had hated Gadaffi for over 40 years.

It was a situation ripe for ISIS.. a few ISIS had already arrived in Eastern Libya seeking sanctuary from the fray.

Gadaffi was a bad actor.. He was uneducated, grandiose, vain and always threatening to assassinate some Arab leader for slights real and imagines. He threw out their constitution and took credit for the programs developed by Idris. He hired Tariki, nearly killed the Libyan oil business and got rid of Wheelus and Tobruk.

He was a Libyan Donald Trump. Dumb as shit.
We were not talking about the CIA annex in Tripoli, but the one in Benghazi where Stevens was meeting with dissidents.
The people in Benghazi were not mostly Libyan, but instead Iraqi, Palestinian, Syrian, etc., dissidents who were displaced.
The whole point of Stevens being there was to recruit, arm, and fund the fake "Arab Spring" that Hillary created.

And no, Qaddafi was not the worst actor.
He was the puppet picked by the southern Hill People elders.
He was the best anyone could have done there, considering.
We should not have taken him out.
And his foreign mercenaries did not flee.
They were trapped and wiped out by US air power, using air/fuel dispersion bombs in the desert.
These bombs have a kill radius of over half a mile.
We killed tens of thousands, on their way to Benghazi.
I am talking about the annex in Benghazi.. It was a listening post. All that crap about weapons and the gold dinar is just crap.. and Libya had a Central Bankand since 1953.. They had the gold dinar far longer than that. The CIA didn't get much right in 1970 Libya.


The coup was launched in Benghazi, mostly by members of the Libyan Signal Corps. The crown prince, Sayyid Hasan ar-Rida al-Mahdi as-Sanussi, Idris' nephew, was placed under house arrest. The Free Officers Movement, as the coup leaders were referred to, declared an end to monarchy in Libya and renamed the country the Libyan Arab Republic.

The Movement quickly evolved into the Revolutionary Command Council which on September 7, 1969, announced that it had formed a cabinet to conduct the business of the government of the new republic.

The following day, the RCC promoted Captain Muammar al-Gaddafi to colonel and appointed him commander in chief of the Libyan Armed Forces, making him the new de facto head of state.

While working on domestic policy reforms, the RCC made several declarations covering its relationship with other nations. It announced that it would be neutral in the Cold War confrontation between the United States and the Soviet Union. It said it would oppose all forms of colonialism and imperialism. It announced its opposition to the State of Israel. The RCC kept in effect the ban on political parties in Libya instituted in 1952.
 

Rigby5

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I thought "take guns first, go through due process second'' was prety much the dead giveaway.
Heck yeah, that was one of them. But for me it was his continual praising of the Clintons in numerous interviews, before he became president. I'm sorry, but no true patriot or conservative would ever heap praise on the Clintons, and not just once, or out of politeness, but heaps of praise in multiple interviews. That's when I knew he was bad news. :nono:

ETA: and I don't buy that he changed from a New York Democrat to a conservative Republican... this video shows how sincere he was about things like "lock her up"

Hahahaha.. Great video.. Trump will be going to prison.
As bad as Trump was, Hillary likely would have been worse.
Not only was Hillary responsible for all the use of force in the Mideast, with her fake "Arab Spring" in Libya, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., but she is the one who started the health care mandate of private health insurance instead of a public option, and she was involve in the 1994 federal crime bill that included the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes, and things that prevent large portions of Blacks from voting.
It's hilarious how it's thought people talk about Trump too much saying we have him on the brain too much! These same people who think we won't have anything to talk about now because he's exited the stage, I look at those fools and just say one think; "HILLARY!" Her name is invoked every single day in some form; esp. on FNC! It's more than a little sad for that hypocritical reason alone! We already have gone thru a horrendous time with Trump who actually fk'd up BIG TIME, now we're going to assume Hillary would have been worse! Yep, makes all kinds of sense! :smartass:
Proud Boys are calling Trump a failure, a shill and a weakling and they are furious that he didn't pardon their guys that participated in his attack on the Capitol.
If Frump had been crazy enough to pardon any of those demonstrators from Jan. 6th, it would guarantee his conviction in the Senate! It's already on video how he incited those animals who went and attacked the Capitol Building! He has no shame; even when it came out Pence's life was in jeapardy! That's what happens when you make deals with psychos so I have no sympathy for any enabler of Trump! :stir:
That is stupid.
I dislike Trump, but obviously Congress is far worse, with things like the illegal Joint Resolution of the Use of Force in Iraq, the War on Drugs, 3 Strikes laws, gun control, etc.
Congress deserves not just being occupied, but burned down.
The US invasion of Iraq was what Bibi Netanyahu demanded in Clean Break Strategy.. He also demanded the isolation and destabilization of Syria.. .. Of course the Republicans gave him what he wanted.
War is totally under congressional control.
It was democrats in congress that approved and continually funded the illegal war in Iraq.
They pass the Joint Resolution for the Use of Force in Iraq.
Hillary was the main supporter.
That's a lie.. Cheney was cherry picking the intel .... The Brits had set up Operation Mass Appeal in 1997 or early 1998 to sell the war under Sir Derek Pumbly.

The whole plan was based on Clean Break Strategy.
If the WMD lies were totally under executive control so poor little congress did not know, then how come I knew?
I read ambassador Wilson, Valorie Plame, General Fulford Jr., the Germans, the French, the Russians, etc., all say the WMD claims were totally false.
Congress had to know.
Hillary had to know.

The whole world and all historical sources told everyone that Saddam was actually a loyal US ally who never did anything against us at all.
Only Israel has any beef with Saddam.
The world would be a much better place if Saddam and Qaddafi were still in power, just as Assad is.
I knew there were no WMDs. Iraq was crippled by two decades of war and sanctions. Saddam didn't want Iran to know just how broken they were. Diplomats, historians, Arabs, oilmen and all US expats in the ME knew is was a FUBAR. Arabia and the Emirates were begging Saddam to come to their countries in exile right up to the invasion.

Yes, Israel was keen to overthrow Saddam.. and destabilize Syria. Look at the dual citizen signatories on the PNAC letter to Bill Clinton in 1998.

Blaming Hillary for the Arab Spring is dumber than dumb. If the US could have kept Gaddafi and Mubarak in power short of a massive occupation force we would have loved to maintain the status quo.

Massive amounts of US money and weapons were funneled into toppling the Arab regimes.
It was not a popular "Arab Spring" like Hillary was claiming.

General Sisi in Egypt was a US trained puppet.
Qaddifi could easily have wiped out the rebels in Benghazi if his mercenaries has not be totally wiped out in desert by US planes.

Even the rebels in Syria now admit it was a bad idea to rebel, and that they were just overwhelmed by US bribes.
 

Rigby5

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... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...
You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.
 

Circe

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Assange allowed his platform to be used in an espionage operation against the US. He can rot in jail for all I care. I used to support him when it seemed he was devoted to transparency and justice and the republicans wanted him dead. Turns out he just wanted to hurt the us. He wanted to hurt us so much that he attacked the only people in America who would have gone to bat for him.
Yeah. . . . I'm for "information wants to be free" but Assange is an idiot if he thought he could he could take on the U.S. and not have to spend the next ten years in the Ecuadorian Embassy. He's being made an example of, and I don't care. He's a show-off, and a stupid one.
 

surada

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... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...
You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.
What you believe is wrong.. My family was there to monitor Gaddafi for Esso Libya. He wasn't a puppet. He was horribly anti American that's why he hired Abdullah Tariki who had been the oil minister in KSA .. He was fired by the King for being anti American and demanding that ARAMCO be nationalized..

Libya did nationalize their oil business prematurely and damn near killed their oil business.. They were a pariah state for the next 20 years.
 

surada

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... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...
You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.
He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.
 

Rigby5

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Assange allowed his platform to be used in an espionage operation against the US. He can rot in jail for all I care. I used to support him when it seemed he was devoted to transparency and justice and the republicans wanted him dead. Turns out he just wanted to hurt the us. He wanted to hurt us so much that he attacked the only people in America who would have gone to bat for him.
Yeah. . . . I'm for "information wants to be free" but Assange is an idiot if he thought he could he could take on the U.S. and not have to spend the next ten years in the Ecuadorian Embassy. He's being made an example of, and I don't care. He's a show-off, and a stupid one.
Sure Assange is a stupid show-off, but he is the best we have and closest to the truth.
We need him badly.
The US military/government is committing too many secret crimes.
The US no longer is remotely a democratic republic.
Like when the military/government lied about Iraqi WMD.
Then you only have a fascist dictatorship.
 

Rigby5

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... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...
You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.
What you believe is wrong.. My family was there to monitor Gaddafi for Esso Libya. He wasn't a puppet. He was horribly anti American that's why he hired Abdullah Tariki who had been the oil minister in KSA .. He was fired by the King for being anti American and demanding that ARAMCO be nationalized..

Libya did nationalize their oil business prematurely and damn near killed their oil business.. They were a pariah state for the next 20 years.
But even though I am born and live in the US, I also hate the US government.
Anyone with any ethics should be anti-American.
So being anti-American does not mean he was not a puppet, just not a US puppet.
My opinion is he was picked by the southern hill tribal elders.
I think nationalizing oil interest is always a good idea, because I think the multi national oil companies are very harmful.
 

surada

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Assange allowed his platform to be used in an espionage operation against the US. He can rot in jail for all I care. I used to support him when it seemed he was devoted to transparency and justice and the republicans wanted him dead. Turns out he just wanted to hurt the us. He wanted to hurt us so much that he attacked the only people in America who would have gone to bat for him.
Yeah. . . . I'm for "information wants to be free" but Assange is an idiot if he thought he could he could take on the U.S. and not have to spend the next ten years in the Ecuadorian Embassy. He's being made an example of, and I don't care. He's a show-off, and a stupid one.
Sure Assange is a stupid show-off, but he is the best we have and closest to the truth.
We need him badly.
The US military/government is committing too many secret crimes.
The US no longer is remotely a democratic republic.
Like when the military/government lied about Iraqi WMD.
Then you only have a fascist dictatorship.
Bush and Cheney lied about Iraq's WMDs.. Not the government.
 

Rigby5

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... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...
You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.
He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.
True, but Qaddafi still was better than the alternatives.
I think he was getting pretty strung out on drugs however.
So he was capable of some weird things.
 

surada

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... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...
You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.
What you believe is wrong.. My family was there to monitor Gaddafi for Esso Libya. He wasn't a puppet. He was horribly anti American that's why he hired Abdullah Tariki who had been the oil minister in KSA .. He was fired by the King for being anti American and demanding that ARAMCO be nationalized..

Libya did nationalize their oil business prematurely and damn near killed their oil business.. They were a pariah state for the next 20 years.
But even though I am born and live in the US, I also hate the US government.
Anyone with any ethics should be anti-American.
So being anti-American does not mean he was not a puppet, just not a US puppet.
My opinion is he was picked by the southern hill tribal elders.
I think nationalizing oil interest is always a good idea, because I think the multi national oil companies are very harmful.
Then you don't know anything about the oil business.. You need time to train up a labor pool to take over.. Gaddafi wrecked their oil business because he nationalized prematurely.

It depends.. The British model was very negative and exploited the people and their resources.. The American model did not... and nationalization was built in on a timeline agreed upon with the original concession.. Their revenue share was 50-50 whereas the Brits paid Iran 7 cents on the dollar.. After Operation Ajax in 1952-3.. they did increase it to 13 cents. .
 

Rigby5

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Assange allowed his platform to be used in an espionage operation against the US. He can rot in jail for all I care. I used to support him when it seemed he was devoted to transparency and justice and the republicans wanted him dead. Turns out he just wanted to hurt the us. He wanted to hurt us so much that he attacked the only people in America who would have gone to bat for him.
Yeah. . . . I'm for "information wants to be free" but Assange is an idiot if he thought he could he could take on the U.S. and not have to spend the next ten years in the Ecuadorian Embassy. He's being made an example of, and I don't care. He's a show-off, and a stupid one.
Sure Assange is a stupid show-off, but he is the best we have and closest to the truth.
We need him badly.
The US military/government is committing too many secret crimes.
The US no longer is remotely a democratic republic.
Like when the military/government lied about Iraqi WMD.
Then you only have a fascist dictatorship.
Bush and Cheney lied about Iraq's WMDs.. Not the government.
Wrong.
I listened to the speeches by Hillary, Kerry, etc.
They were all equally guilty.
And there is on doubt at all that it was Congress who authorized the invasion of Iraq, with the Joint Resolution for the Use of Force in Iraq.
.
Hillary, Kerry, and all the democrats who had to know Bush was lying, went along with it.
That means they not only were guilty, but that they were intentionally setting up Bush as the patsy, knowing the truth would have to come out after the invasion was over.
 

surada

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... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...
You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.
He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.
True, but Qaddafi still was better than the alternatives.
I think he was getting pretty strung out on drugs however.
So he was capable of some weird things.
Absolutely, but short of putting a huge occupation force in place tokeep Gaddafiin power there was NOTHING the US could do.. By the end .. Gaddafi hadn't friend in the world.. not even Mugabe would touch him.
 

Rigby5

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... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...
You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.
What you believe is wrong.. My family was there to monitor Gaddafi for Esso Libya. He wasn't a puppet. He was horribly anti American that's why he hired Abdullah Tariki who had been the oil minister in KSA .. He was fired by the King for being anti American and demanding that ARAMCO be nationalized..

Libya did nationalize their oil business prematurely and damn near killed their oil business.. They were a pariah state for the next 20 years.
But even though I am born and live in the US, I also hate the US government.
Anyone with any ethics should be anti-American.
So being anti-American does not mean he was not a puppet, just not a US puppet.
My opinion is he was picked by the southern hill tribal elders.
I think nationalizing oil interest is always a good idea, because I think the multi national oil companies are very harmful.
Then you don't know anything about the oil business.. You need time to train up a labor pool to take over.. Gaddafi wrecked their oil business because he nationalized prematurely.

It depends.. The British model was very negative and exploited the people and their resources.. The American model did not... and nationalization was built in on a timeline agreed upon with the original concession.. Their revenue share was 50-50 whereas the Brits paid Iran 7 cents on the dollar.. After Operation Ajax in 1952-3.. they did increase it to 13 cents. .
There are lots of independents who could have helped in a transition.
Russians if nothing else.
The harm British or US oil companies would do is to pump too quickly, and deplete the resources when oil is too low in price.
Any country should always nationalize oil so they can conserve it so it last longer.
Eventually when world supplies run low, THAT is when you want to still have oil, and sell it for the highest possible price.
 

Rigby5

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... 1969 a group of about 70 junior Libyan military officers lead by Muammar Gaddafi took the opportunity to stage a bloodless coup d'état. ...
You can't implement a "bloodless coup d'etat" unless you have the support of the majority of the power holders.
Which in the case of Libya, means the southern hill tribal elders.

So I believe Qaddafi was just a puppet, and he really was not doing any significant harm.
The US was falsely making him look bad because the Israelis did not like him.
He was always threatening an assassination.

My favorite was he drank rose water out of finger bowl at a state dinner and other Arab leaders chuckled.... so he ordered the assassination of the king of KSA.
He was a grandiose asshole who funded every terrorist group in Africa and declared himself emperor of Africa.
True, but Qaddafi still was better than the alternatives.
I think he was getting pretty strung out on drugs however.
So he was capable of some weird things.
Absolutely, but short of putting a huge occupation force in place tokeep Gaddafiin power there was NOTHING the US could do.. By the end .. Gaddafi hadn't friend in the world.. not even Mugabe would touch him.
I disagree.
I do not think the rebel force in Benghazi was more than a paper tiger.
And the rebels were NOT actually Libyan.
They were entirely mercenary as well, funded and armed totally by the CIA.
Qaddafi was actually somewhat popular with the real population of Libya.
The proof of that is how screwed up Libya is now.
There now are more ISIS and al Qaeda than anything else.
 

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