If it is certain the FBI is setting a "lying" trap, how should one behave?

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

I think this is becoming the most abusive type of activity which an oppressive government can engage, especially when anyone who may have knowledge of relevant facts is treated as a "suspect" for purposes of extracting information:

Reid technique - Wikipedia

The Reid technique's nine steps of interrogation are:

1. Direct confrontation. Advise the suspect that the evidence has led the police to the individual as a suspect. Offer the person an early opportunity to explain why the offense took place.
2. Try to shift the blame away from the suspect to some other person or set of circumstances that prompted the suspect to commit the crime. That is, develop themes containing reasons that will psychologically justify or excuse the crime. Themes may be developed or changed to find one to which the accused is most responsive.
3. Try to minimize the frequency of suspect denials.
4. At this point, the accused will often give a reason why he or she did not or could not commit the crime. Try to use this to move towards the acknowledgement of what they did.
5. Reinforce sincerity to ensure that the suspect is receptive.
6. The suspect will become quieter and listen. Move the theme discussion towards offering alternatives. If the suspect cries at this point, infer guilt.
7. Pose the “alternative question”, giving two choices for what happened; one more socially acceptable than the other. The suspect is expected to choose the easier option but whichever alternative the suspect chooses, guilt is admitted. As stated above, there is always a third option which is to maintain that they did not commit the crime.
8. Lead the suspect to repeat the admission of guilt in front of witnesses and develop corroborating information to establish the validity of the confession.
9. Document the suspect's admission or confession and have him or her prepare a recorded statement (audio, video or written).

There's also the "Volatile Conundrum" technique where the interrogators lie about certain things, forcing the interrogated individual to think fast, usually forcing the individual to lie out of fear of being prosecuted for something they didn't do.

Example:

Q: Where were you on the morning of August 14, 2016? (not telling the interviewee it was a Sunday)

A: I believe I was at the office.

Q: Was your secretary there too?

A: I believe so. She usually was at the office.

Q: If she denies being in the office on August 14, 2016, would she be lying?

A: I don't know. I believe she was there.

Q: We're questioning her more about August 14, but we will get back to that.

(now the interviewee is really worried about August 14)

(Later in the interview)

Q: We just learned that your secretary denies being in the office on August 14. So, was that the day you had a meeting with the Russian lawyers.

A: I never met with Russian lawyers.

Q: But, your secretary, the one person who could have corroborated your statement that you didn't meet with Russian lawyers, was not in the office on August 14, 2016.

(interviewee is now thinking, oh shit. They believe I met with Russians and I have no supporting witness, and the irrelevant lies start to flow for no reason other than fear)

Another Example:

Q: Where did you go the night of the incident?

A: I was at the Carter High School football game.

Q: What time did the game end?

A: I believe about 10:30 p.m.

Q: That's interesting. We got information about that very game where the stadium was evacuated due to a bomb threat. How long was the game delayed ? (all a complete lie) (now the subject is starting to question his own memory and is left with a conundrum. If he doesn't recall the game delay, they think he didn't go to the game.) (nervous about being falsely implicated, the lies start to flow)

A: Umm.. Yeah. I don't know. I guess for about 15 minutes. I can't be sure. (lying to investigators)

 

[g5000]

"I can't recall if I laundered tens of millions of dollars I got from Russia."

"I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

Yeah, that works.

Actually it does if there is no paper trail. And even if there is you can say “yes that’s my account but I don’t remember that transaction”. I’m not saying a jury will believe you but if you tell that to a federal agent you are not creating a perjury trap. The thing that is hard for witnesses is to have the discipline to say “I don’t remember” a hundred times. Witnesses in my experience always want to be helpful.

Well, I can see how a Trump Tard would fall for the line, "I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

But anyone with an IQ above 25 would laugh their asses off.

Hey the question was how to avoid a perjury trap. I answered that question. You somehow think my answer is political. It isn’t. It’s just an answer. So park your righteousness somewhere else, will you?

The best way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to launder tens of millions of dollars.

Another really good way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to be a secret Russian agent.

You're welcome.

 

[Dim Bulb]

"I can't recall if I laundered tens of millions of dollars I got from Russia."

"I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

Yeah, that works.

Actually it does if there is no paper trail. And even if there is you can say “yes that’s my account but I don’t remember that transaction”. I’m not saying a jury will believe you but if you tell that to a federal agent you are not creating a perjury trap. The thing that is hard for witnesses is to have the discipline to say “I don’t remember” a hundred times. Witnesses in my experience always want to be helpful.

Well, I can see how a Trump Tard would fall for the line, "I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

But anyone with an IQ above 25 would laugh their asses off.

Hey the question was how to avoid a perjury trap. I answered that question. You somehow think my answer is political. It isn’t. It’s just an answer. So park your righteousness somewhere else, will you?

The best way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to launder tens of millions of dollars.

Another really good way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to be a secret Russian agent.

You're welcome.

Dude I would never ever accept a client like you. Clients who think they’re smarter than they are always always always end up in deep kitty litter.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

The best way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to launder tens of millions of dollars.

Another really good way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to be a secret Russian agent.

You're welcome.

Yeah, noted. Thanks, buddy. Appreciate it. We need more Tax Expenditures. Now, can we please stay on topic?

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yeah, getting caught by the investigators in lies is a bitch, is it not

"I can't recall if I laundered tens of millions of dollars I got from Russia."

"I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

Yeah, that works.

Actually it does if there is no paper trail. And even if there is you can say “yes that’s my account but I don’t remember that transaction”. I’m not saying a jury will believe you but if you tell that to a federal agent you are not creating a perjury trap. The thing that is hard for witnesses is to have the discipline to say “I don’t remember” a hundred times. Witnesses in my experience always want to be helpful.

Well, I can see how a Trump Tard would fall for the line, "I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

But anyone with an IQ above 25 would laugh their asses off.

Hey the question was how to avoid a perjury trap. I answered that question. You somehow think my answer is political. It isn’t. It’s just an answer. So park your righteousness somewhere else, will you?

The best way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to launder tens of millions of dollars.

Another really good way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to be a secret Russian agent.

You're welcome.

Dude I would never ever accept a client like you. Clients who think they’re smarter than they are always always always end up in deep kitty litter.

And one should always be careful of those like you who think they are clever.

 

[g5000]

"I can't recall if I laundered tens of millions of dollars I got from Russia."

"I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

Yeah, that works.

Actually it does if there is no paper trail. And even if there is you can say “yes that’s my account but I don’t remember that transaction”. I’m not saying a jury will believe you but if you tell that to a federal agent you are not creating a perjury trap. The thing that is hard for witnesses is to have the discipline to say “I don’t remember” a hundred times. Witnesses in my experience always want to be helpful.

Well, I can see how a Trump Tard would fall for the line, "I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

But anyone with an IQ above 25 would laugh their asses off.

Hey the question was how to avoid a perjury trap. I answered that question. You somehow think my answer is political. It isn’t. It’s just an answer. So park your righteousness somewhere else, will you?

The best way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to launder tens of millions of dollars.

Another really good way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to be a secret Russian agent.

You're welcome.

Dude I would never ever accept a client like you. Clients who think they’re smarter than they are always always always end up in deep kitty litter.

I would not want you for a lawyer, that's for sure!

 

[Dim Bulb]

Actually it does if there is no paper trail. And even if there is you can say “yes that’s my account but I don’t remember that transaction”. I’m not saying a jury will believe you but if you tell that to a federal agent you are not creating a perjury trap. The thing that is hard for witnesses is to have the discipline to say “I don’t remember” a hundred times. Witnesses in my experience always want to be helpful.

Well, I can see how a Trump Tard would fall for the line, "I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

But anyone with an IQ above 25 would laugh their asses off.

Hey the question was how to avoid a perjury trap. I answered that question. You somehow think my answer is political. It isn’t. It’s just an answer. So park your righteousness somewhere else, will you?

The best way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to launder tens of millions of dollars.

Another really good way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to be a secret Russian agent.

You're welcome.

Dude I would never ever accept a client like you. Clients who think they’re smarter than they are always always always end up in deep kitty litter.

I would not want you for a lawyer, that's for sure!

Great. It’s mutual!

 

[Dim Bulb]

Yeah, getting caught by the investigators in lies is a bitch, is it not

Actually it does if there is no paper trail. And even if there is you can say “yes that’s my account but I don’t remember that transaction”. I’m not saying a jury will believe you but if you tell that to a federal agent you are not creating a perjury trap. The thing that is hard for witnesses is to have the discipline to say “I don’t remember” a hundred times. Witnesses in my experience always want to be helpful.

Well, I can see how a Trump Tard would fall for the line, "I can't remember if I set up offshore accounts to buy multi-million dollar properties in the US."

But anyone with an IQ above 25 would laugh their asses off.

Hey the question was how to avoid a perjury trap. I answered that question. You somehow think my answer is political. It isn’t. It’s just an answer. So park your righteousness somewhere else, will you?

The best way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to launder tens of millions of dollars.

Another really good way to avoid a perjury "trap" is not to be a secret Russian agent.

You're welcome.

Dude I would never ever accept a client like you. Clients who think they’re smarter than they are always always always end up in deep kitty litter.

And one should always be careful of those like you who think they are clever.

Agree. I answered a legal question with a tried and true response. That isn’t clever. It’s just an answer.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Maybe I am too cynical and mistrusting, but I believe that investigators deliberately try to set up a "material misrepresentation" charge solely to get them to roll over on the real target and accuse the real target of criminal activity.

But, how reliable is the testimony of one given solely because they are a liar facing "material misrepresentation" charges? We're literally forced to believe the testimony of someone who is a liar trying to save his/her lying ass from going to prison.

It calls for unreliable testimony, in my opinion, not to mention the abusiveness of government power.

 

[Dim Bulb]

Maybe I am too cynical and mistrusting, but I believe that investigators deliberately try to set up a "material misrepresentation" charge solely to get them to roll over on the real target and accuse the real target of criminal activity.

But, how reliable is the testimony of one given solely because they are a liar facing "material misrepresentation" charges? We're literally forced to believe the testimony of someone who is a liar trying to save his/her lying ass from going to prison.

It calls for unreliable testimony, in my opinion, not to mention the abusiveness of government power.

Yeah that’s generally true with any supporting witness who is cooperating. Easy to impeach at trial. But pre trial it gives the USAIC good leverage because clients are generally skittish or think they are smarter than they are. See above.

 

[danielpalos]

Anyone questioned by the FBI is facing a "making a material misrepresentation" charge. How should one proceed if one legitimately cannot remember details or events?

Will "I don't remember" be sufficient?

they need to ask better questions.

 

[KatieK]

Anyone questioned by the FBI is facing a "making a material misrepresentation" charge. How should one proceed if one legitimately cannot remember details or events?

Will "I don't remember" be sufficient?

Bring a lawyer, say nothing, nothing at all.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

Yeah that’s generally true with any supporting witness who is cooperating. Easy to impeach at trial. But pre trial it gives the USAIC good leverage because clients are generally skittish or think they are smarter than they are. See above.

Hearsay is excluded because it is unreliable (I know. Find an exception). Why is such testimony considered reliable?

Is it not just like a forced confession?

I know. Let the trier of fact judge credibility. Still, it has the feel of being unreliable and abusive.

If you refuse to answer questions out of fear that they will find a way to catch you misrepresenting, you are charged with obstruction, right?

 

[Dim Bulb]

Yeah that’s generally true with any supporting witness who is cooperating. Easy to impeach at trial. But pre trial it gives the USAIC good leverage because clients are generally skittish or think they are smarter than they are. See above.

Hearsay is excluded because it is unreliable (I know. Find an exception). Why is such testimony considered reliable?

Is it not just like a forced confession?

I know. Let the trier of fact judge credibility. Still, it has the feel of being unreliable and abusive.

If you refuse to answer questions out of fear that they will find a way to catch you misrepresenting, you are charged with obstruction, right?

No that’s not enough for an obstruction charge. If I were the President s lawyer I’d be worried about obstruction because of his public admissions against interest. You’ve answered your own questions otherwise.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

No that’s not enough for an obstruction charge.

So, why would anyone ever cooperate? I would never answer a single question out of fear of the trap.

If I were the President s lawyer I’d be worried about obstruction because of his public admissions against interest.

What do you mean?

 

[Ted Frazier]

Anyone questioned by the FBI is facing a "making a material misrepresentation" charge. How should one proceed if one legitimately cannot remember details or events?

Will "I don't remember" be sufficient?

1) Most charges today were not false statement charges
2) Do you want lying to the FBI to be legal?

 

[Dim Bulb]

No that’s not enough for an obstruction charge.

So, why would anyone ever cooperate? I would never answer a single question out of fear of the trap.

If I were the President s lawyer I’d be worried about obstruction because of his public admissions against interest.

What do you mean?

People have different motivations for cooperating but it usually comes down to self interest — less time. When they flip, prosecutors know they have ended the guts life as he knew it. You always feel a little bad for them.

With respect to the obstruction charge against the president, let’s assume there was no constitutional hurdle to prosecuting him and also assume he wouldn’t pardon himself. In fact let’s assume he’s Joe Schmoe. I would prosecute him by showing the jury every tweet he made on this subject one by one. I’d put them on the screen and have him read them himself (if he testified) without asking for explanation. I would use his endless statements on Comey Mueller and the investigation to show a clear intent to halt or hinder the investigation. I think if it was Joe Schmoe he’s dead to rights guilty.

 

[Bootney Lee Farnsworth]

George Papadopoulos apparently lied about his contacts with a certain Russian individual referred to as "The Professor" who allegedly had dirt on Hillary.

The dates are really fuzzy on when this guy actually became an advisor, but seems to indicate that March 24, 2016 was the official date.

He was being asked in January, 2017 about contacts with The Professor that occurred between March 5, 2016 and April 26, 2016.

If he was going off memory, that is some bullshit to hold him to that standard or recollection. Total bullshit.

Also:
"Defendant PAPADOPOULOS further told the investigating agents that the professor was "a nothing" and "just a guy talk[ing] up connections or something." In truth and in fact, however, defendant PAPADOPOULOS understood that the professor had substantial connections to Russian government officials (and had met with some of those officials in Moscow immediately prior to telling defendant PAPADOPOULOS about the "thousands of emails") and, over a period of months,"

Just a guy talking up connections could very well be plausible. He "understood" that the professor had substantial connections? How did he "understand" those connections, other than the guy talking up his connections?

Now, this guy may have been lying all over the place, but this shows how the FBI can bullshit and manipulate ANYONE into a "misrepresentation" plea.

Here's the Plea Doc:
https://www.justice.gov/file/1007346/download

 

[OKTexas]

Anyone questioned by the FBI is facing a "making a material misrepresentation" charge. How should one proceed if one legitimately cannot remember details or events?

Will "I don't remember" be sufficient?

You can chose not to make any statement. Give them the ole silent treatment.


.

 

[Zander]

Here are the magic words:

"On counsel’s advice, I invoke my right under the Fifth Amendment not to answer any questions, on the grounds I may incriminate myself."

There is no law that says you must cooperate in an investigation.

Only dummies talk.