If 0+0=0 and 0-0=0, 0x0=0, Why is 0/0 indeterminate?

[SixFoot]

Try not to get too technical, but can anyone explain this in common English?
I went home and thought about it last night, but for the life of me, I can't understand why if it applies to division, it doesn't apply to the rest. What is different about division that doesn't allow that?

This was the explanation I was taught on the matter.

Sal is my hero. Thanks.

Agreed. I donate every month to these people and I give them much credit for my scores lately.

 

[PK1]

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

And complex imaginary numbers help one travel to multiple dimensions.

 

[SixFoot]

Try not to get too technical, but can anyone explain this in common English?
I went home and thought about it last night, but for the life of me, I can't understand why if it applies to division, it doesn't apply to the rest. What is different about division that doesn't allow that?

We can do it by example, how about this, cut up a bread to infinitely thin slices. Then you will need to take away infinitely many slices to consume your original loaf of bread so the result of your division is negative infinity.

Now take many infinitely thin slices to make up your original loaf of bread. You wil need all the infinitely many slices to reconstruct your loaf of bread so your result is positive infinity.

But what if your slices are not infinitely thin but zero thin. Since 0+0=0, not even infinitely many slices will give you back your bread. This is why the division by zero is a special case, breaks every number even infinity itself.

So it is axiomatically defined as error. It's effect is to cause a discontinuity in everything it touches, a singularity if you like. The division by zero is frequently used in mathematics in many calculations for example the estimation of system stability in the general sense, where the locations of such divisions are called the poles of the system.

Dividing by zero? It's common to multiply two sides of an equation by zero, but divide? Can't think of when that would be legitimate.

You can think of it as two polynomials, one dividing the other. The ratio of the two polynomials is the system output. The numerator polynomial is the forward behavior of the system, and the denomerator polynomial is the feedback behavior of the system, a memory, if you like. Each of the polynomials are linear combinations of the system input raised to various powers. This model describes every system in the universe generally. To calculate the physical poles of the system, you equate the enumerated result of the denominator polynomial to zero, i.e. you assume that you are inside a singularity of the system. You work backwards from this zero equation to find out what sort of system inputs could be capable to produce the singularity. So to answer your question in short, you don't do the division by zero but assume it then work backwards from that assumption to find the input values that can cause it.

Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

 

[anotherlife]

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

And complex imaginary numbers help one travel to multiple dimensions.

Here is a real big challenge then. The complex plain's imaginary dimension turns linear processes into cyclical events or destabilizes them as "explosion". Now try to represent time itself as the complex plain. Will the probabilistic nature of quantum mechanics remain probabilistic after you have done that? A new research field in theoretical mathematics.

 

[OldLady]

We can do it by example, how about this, cut up a bread to infinitely thin slices. Then you will need to take away infinitely many slices to consume your original loaf of bread so the result of your division is negative infinity.

Now take many infinitely thin slices to make up your original loaf of bread. You wil need all the infinitely many slices to reconstruct your loaf of bread so your result is positive infinity.

But what if your slices are not infinitely thin but zero thin. Since 0+0=0, not even infinitely many slices will give you back your bread. This is why the division by zero is a special case, breaks every number even infinity itself.

So it is axiomatically defined as error. It's effect is to cause a discontinuity in everything it touches, a singularity if you like. The division by zero is frequently used in mathematics in many calculations for example the estimation of system stability in the general sense, where the locations of such divisions are called the poles of the system.

Dividing by zero? It's common to multiply two sides of an equation by zero, but divide? Can't think of when that would be legitimate.

You can think of it as two polynomials, one dividing the other. The ratio of the two polynomials is the system output. The numerator polynomial is the forward behavior of the system, and the denomerator polynomial is the feedback behavior of the system, a memory, if you like. Each of the polynomials are linear combinations of the system input raised to various powers. This model describes every system in the universe generally. To calculate the physical poles of the system, you equate the enumerated result of the denominator polynomial to zero, i.e. you assume that you are inside a singularity of the system. You work backwards from this zero equation to find out what sort of system inputs could be capable to produce the singularity. So to answer your question in short, you don't do the division by zero but assume it then work backwards from that assumption to find the input values that can cause it.

Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

 

[anotherlife]

We can do it by example, how about this, cut up a bread to infinitely thin slices. Then you will need to take away infinitely many slices to consume your original loaf of bread so the result of your division is negative infinity.

Now take many infinitely thin slices to make up your original loaf of bread. You wil need all the infinitely many slices to reconstruct your loaf of bread so your result is positive infinity.

But what if your slices are not infinitely thin but zero thin. Since 0+0=0, not even infinitely many slices will give you back your bread. This is why the division by zero is a special case, breaks every number even infinity itself.

So it is axiomatically defined as error. It's effect is to cause a discontinuity in everything it touches, a singularity if you like. The division by zero is frequently used in mathematics in many calculations for example the estimation of system stability in the general sense, where the locations of such divisions are called the poles of the system.

Dividing by zero? It's common to multiply two sides of an equation by zero, but divide? Can't think of when that would be legitimate.

You can think of it as two polynomials, one dividing the other. The ratio of the two polynomials is the system output. The numerator polynomial is the forward behavior of the system, and the denomerator polynomial is the feedback behavior of the system, a memory, if you like. Each of the polynomials are linear combinations of the system input raised to various powers. This model describes every system in the universe generally. To calculate the physical poles of the system, you equate the enumerated result of the denominator polynomial to zero, i.e. you assume that you are inside a singularity of the system. You work backwards from this zero equation to find out what sort of system inputs could be capable to produce the singularity. So to answer your question in short, you don't do the division by zero but assume it then work backwards from that assumption to find the input values that can cause it.

Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Likewise here.

 

[Moonglow]

Try not to get too technical, but can anyone explain this in common English?
I went home and thought about it last night, but for the life of me, I can't understand why if it applies to division, it doesn't apply to the rest. What is different about division that doesn't allow that?

Nothing shall come of nothing. I speak anon.~King Lear

 

[Moonglow]

Dividing by zero? It's common to multiply two sides of an equation by zero, but divide? Can't think of when that would be legitimate.

You can think of it as two polynomials, one dividing the other. The ratio of the two polynomials is the system output. The numerator polynomial is the forward behavior of the system, and the denomerator polynomial is the feedback behavior of the system, a memory, if you like. Each of the polynomials are linear combinations of the system input raised to various powers. This model describes every system in the universe generally. To calculate the physical poles of the system, you equate the enumerated result of the denominator polynomial to zero, i.e. you assume that you are inside a singularity of the system. You work backwards from this zero equation to find out what sort of system inputs could be capable to produce the singularity. So to answer your question in short, you don't do the division by zero but assume it then work backwards from that assumption to find the input values that can cause it.

Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

So does electrical and electronics...

 

[SixFoot]

Dividing by zero? It's common to multiply two sides of an equation by zero, but divide? Can't think of when that would be legitimate.

You can think of it as two polynomials, one dividing the other. The ratio of the two polynomials is the system output. The numerator polynomial is the forward behavior of the system, and the denomerator polynomial is the feedback behavior of the system, a memory, if you like. Each of the polynomials are linear combinations of the system input raised to various powers. This model describes every system in the universe generally. To calculate the physical poles of the system, you equate the enumerated result of the denominator polynomial to zero, i.e. you assume that you are inside a singularity of the system. You work backwards from this zero equation to find out what sort of system inputs could be capable to produce the singularity. So to answer your question in short, you don't do the division by zero but assume it then work backwards from that assumption to find the input values that can cause it.

Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

I dropped out of Junior High when I was 16. I had all the answers and everyone else in the world was stupid. Something about my understanding of Existence has been pulling on me for a long time now, never satisfied with anything I've learned.

After my last deployment in 2011, the insomnia drove me to try watching nerdy science documentaries to help me sleep. My dumbass started with How the Universe Works, and my insomnia has never gotten better. Now I stay up all night watching them for entertainment.

Then, last year, after maybe two or three years of stewing on the idea, I decided that the only way I was going to understand anything (without simply repeating what educated people already know), was to learn the fundamentals of the very small, so I could one day perhaps comprehend the very large.

In spite of my general stupidity, I've always been somewhat of a natural at math. So, here I am, in my third semester, majoring in Mathematics, waiting to minor in Physics this winter when I finish my Associates. I never once expected to be carrying a steady 4.0 GPA, but my motivation hasn't been this strong since I first felt the call to arms.

 

[OldLady]

You can think of it as two polynomials, one dividing the other. The ratio of the two polynomials is the system output. The numerator polynomial is the forward behavior of the system, and the denomerator polynomial is the feedback behavior of the system, a memory, if you like. Each of the polynomials are linear combinations of the system input raised to various powers. This model describes every system in the universe generally. To calculate the physical poles of the system, you equate the enumerated result of the denominator polynomial to zero, i.e. you assume that you are inside a singularity of the system. You work backwards from this zero equation to find out what sort of system inputs could be capable to produce the singularity. So to answer your question in short, you don't do the division by zero but assume it then work backwards from that assumption to find the input values that can cause it.

Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

So does electrical and electronics...

Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.

 

[Moonglow]

Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

So does electrical and electronics...

Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.

Math also has a subroot of the art of argument called logic...Music..It's a great source of base information...While a hair dryer may give you split ends...

 

[SixFoot]

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

So does electrical and electronics...

Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.

Math also has a subroot of the art of argument called logic...Music..It's a great source of base information...While a hair dryer may give you split ends...

The probability of getting split ends while using a hair dryer after properly utilizing basic hair care products is less than 0.5.

 

[OldLady]

You can think of it as two polynomials, one dividing the other. The ratio of the two polynomials is the system output. The numerator polynomial is the forward behavior of the system, and the denomerator polynomial is the feedback behavior of the system, a memory, if you like. Each of the polynomials are linear combinations of the system input raised to various powers. This model describes every system in the universe generally. To calculate the physical poles of the system, you equate the enumerated result of the denominator polynomial to zero, i.e. you assume that you are inside a singularity of the system. You work backwards from this zero equation to find out what sort of system inputs could be capable to produce the singularity. So to answer your question in short, you don't do the division by zero but assume it then work backwards from that assumption to find the input values that can cause it.

Are you an engineer? Quite awesome how the rules of math get more involved than James Joyce.

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

I dropped out of Junior High when I was 16. I had all the answers and everyone else in the world was stupid. Something about my understanding of Existence has been pulling on me for a long time now, never satisfied with anything I've learned.

After my last deployment in 2011, the insomnia drove me to try watching nerdy science documentaries to help me sleep. My dumbass started with How the Universe Works, and my insomnia has never gotten better. Now I stay up all night watching them for entertainment.

Then, last year, after maybe two or three years of stewing on the idea, I decided that the only way I was going to understand anything (without simply repeating what educated people already know), was to learn the fundamentals of the very small, so I could one day perhaps comprehend the very large.

In spite of my general stupidity, I've always been somewhat of a natural at math. So, here I am, in my third semester, majoring in Mathematics, waiting to minor in Physics this winter when I finish my Associates. I never once expected to be carrying a steady 4.0 GPA, but my motivation hasn't been this strong since I first felt the call to arms.

Welcome aboard, Six Foot! You are fortunate to have discovered another of your natural gifts and smart to be using it. Have a wonderful time.

 

[OldLady]

Well I wrote it from the scientific point of view, but yes you would do the same in an engineering problem too only there your goal would be to figure out your best system parameters instead of diagnosing for the inputs.

And I agree that it is maths where you can travel beyond the limits of human imagination.

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

So does electrical and electronics...

Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.

Math also has a subroot of the art of argument called logic...Music..It's a great source of base information...While a hair dryer may give you split ends...

So I hear. A lot of folks on my mom's side were born musical--could pick up an instrument and play without reading a note of music. Could transpose instantly to key to a singer's voice. And they were all puzzled at my complete idiocy with math. My mother soundly trounced me at chess the second time we played, as soon as I showed her how the pieces move. Logic, numbers, I was not so endowed.

 

[Moonglow]

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

So does electrical and electronics...

Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.

Math also has a subroot of the art of argument called logic...Music..It's a great source of base information...While a hair dryer may give you split ends...

The probability of getting split ends while using a hair dryer after properly utilizing basic hair care products is less than 0.5.

Last time I used one I got dry skin..

 

[Moonglow]

This budding Mathematician is super glad he logged on today.

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

So does electrical and electronics...

Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.

Math also has a subroot of the art of argument called logic...Music..It's a great source of base information...While a hair dryer may give you split ends...

So I hear. A lot of folks on my mom's side were born musical--could pick up an instrument and play without reading a note of music. Could transpose instantly to key to a singer's voice. And they were all puzzled at my complete idiocy with math. My mother soundly trounced me at chess the second time we played, as soon as I showed her how the pieces move. Logic, numbers, I was not so endowed.

I actually had always tried to stay away from math after basic algebra in 8th grade, and work on artsy fartsy and sports...Yet, I always found myself doing technical work...

 

[OldLady]

Math is its own language with its own grammatical, spelling and punctuation rules and various levels of vocabulary. Once you master it, it sounds as if takes you on a Magical Mystery Tour as fascinating as some of the poets and the story tellers do for me.
English language --- math
Two different ways to explore the same world. Cool beans folks. I never really thought of it that way before.

So does electrical and electronics...

Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.

Math also has a subroot of the art of argument called logic...Music..It's a great source of base information...While a hair dryer may give you split ends...

So I hear. A lot of folks on my mom's side were born musical--could pick up an instrument and play without reading a note of music. Could transpose instantly to key to a singer's voice. And they were all puzzled at my complete idiocy with math. My mother soundly trounced me at chess the second time we played, as soon as I showed her how the pieces move. Logic, numbers, I was not so endowed.

I actually had always tried to stay away from math after basic algebra in 8th grade, and work on artsy fartsy and sports...Yet, I always found myself doing technical work...

So does all the talk of something from nothing make sense to you, based on your technical understanding? A couple people have indicated the mystery is in the nature of energy itself, which is electricity, yes?

 

[Moonglow]

So does electrical and electronics...

Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.

Math also has a subroot of the art of argument called logic...Music..It's a great source of base information...While a hair dryer may give you split ends...

So I hear. A lot of folks on my mom's side were born musical--could pick up an instrument and play without reading a note of music. Could transpose instantly to key to a singer's voice. And they were all puzzled at my complete idiocy with math. My mother soundly trounced me at chess the second time we played, as soon as I showed her how the pieces move. Logic, numbers, I was not so endowed.

I actually had always tried to stay away from math after basic algebra in 8th grade, and work on artsy fartsy and sports...Yet, I always found myself doing technical work...

So does all the talk of something from nothing make sense to you, based on your technical understanding? A couple people have indicated the mystery is in the nature of energy itself, which is electricity, yes?

Since I was in the play in college, and heard it 5 nights a week for 6 weeks,,,yes,, it means that if you invest nothing , you will get nothing in return..Invest being that one must spend money, or time to make something flourish kinda thingy-mabob..

 

[TyroneSlothrop]

Try not to get too technical, but can anyone explain this in common English?
I went home and thought about it last night, but for the life of me, I can't understand why if it applies to division, it doesn't apply to the rest. What is different about division that doesn't allow that?

nothing that is divided into nothing is God...in the Calculator it comes up as "E" which stands for "emmanuel" which means God is with us...my calculator then plays this ...its startling

 

[OldLady]

Math is the language of science, no? All I know is not to grab a plugged in hair dryer while in the tub.

Math also has a subroot of the art of argument called logic...Music..It's a great source of base information...While a hair dryer may give you split ends...

So I hear. A lot of folks on my mom's side were born musical--could pick up an instrument and play without reading a note of music. Could transpose instantly to key to a singer's voice. And they were all puzzled at my complete idiocy with math. My mother soundly trounced me at chess the second time we played, as soon as I showed her how the pieces move. Logic, numbers, I was not so endowed.

I actually had always tried to stay away from math after basic algebra in 8th grade, and work on artsy fartsy and sports...Yet, I always found myself doing technical work...

So does all the talk of something from nothing make sense to you, based on your technical understanding? A couple people have indicated the mystery is in the nature of energy itself, which is electricity, yes?

Since I was in the play in college, and heard it 5 nights a week for 6 weeks,,,yes,, it means that if you invest nothing , you will get nothing in return..Invest being that one must spend money, or time to make something flourish kinda thingy-mabob..

Were you Caius? You would make a good Caius.