Ideas for fixing minimum wage.

[Toronado3800]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

 

[DGS49]

Dear Tornado Person:

No intelligent person wants to significantly increase the minimum wage. Notice that when the Democrats had control of both house and the White House in Obama's first term, NOTHING was done on the minimum wage.

The minimum wage ITSELF is an economic abomination. The price of EVERYTHING should be determined by the marketplace and everyone's right of contract. If I am willing to sweep floors for $5/hr, and there is an employer who desires to employ me at that rate to sweep his floors, WHAT RIGHT DOES GOVERNMENT HAVE TO STEP IN AND SAY WE CANNOT ENTER INTO THIS CONTRACT?

Seriously. How does Government get the right to do this?

There is a natural minimum wage in every place at all times. If I tried to hire a fast food worker in NYC for $8/hr, I would get no takers. $10, probably not. But there is a wage at which I could get the workers I want, and they would be willing to work for that wage. The numbers would be less in Keokuk, Iowa.

Democrats like to point to local Minimum Wage laws that are. harmless, to "prove" that increasing the minimum wage doesn't harm anyone. But they choose locations where the natural minimum wage is already far above the legal minimum wage, so that the local law is actually irrelevant. But look at what's happening in Seattle. Hours are being cut, business near the city limits are closing due to competition, people are losing their jobs.

And remember that the people who are hurt by this are the people at the bottom of the economic totem pole - the ones who can least afford the hit. People with no HS diploma, single parents working part time to make ends meet. And so on.

Any time the Government (or any supervening force) steps in and imposes a price (wage) that is higher than the natural minimum, three things occur: (1) the consumers of that commodity use less of it (i.e., hours and headcount are cut), (b) the consumers seek alternatives (automation, self-service), and (3) a black market is formed by people who will skirt the law for their own benefit.

Every minimum wage increase will reduce the chances of high school kids getting part time and summer jobs. At $15/hr, there are a LOT of retired people, working mothers, and others who had given up work, who will come out of the woodwork. And what employer would prefer a pimply high school kid to a retired grandmother?

 

[rightwinger]

Congress has proven that minimum wage is too controversial to handle fairly

Raise it to $10 with a dollar increase every year until it reaches $15
Then tie it to the CPI

 

[rightwinger]

Dear Tornado Person:

No intelligent person wants to significantly increase the minimum wage. Notice that when the Democrats had control of both house and the White House in Obama's first term, NOTHING was done on the minimum wage.

The minimum wage ITSELF is an economic abomination. The price of EVERYTHING should be determined by the marketplace and everyone's right of contract. If I am willing to sweep floors for $5/hr, and there is an employer who desires to employ me at that rate to sweep his floors, WHAT RIGHT DOES GOVERNMENT HAVE TO STEP IN AND SAY WE CANNOT ENTER INTO THIS CONTRACT?

Seriously. How does Government get the right to do this?

There is a natural minimum wage in every place at all times. If I tried to hire a fast food worker in NYC for $8/hr, I would get no takers. $10, probably not. But there is a wage at which I could get the workers I want, and they would be willing to work for that wage. The numbers would be less in Keokuk, Iowa.

Democrats like to point to local Minimum Wage laws that are. harmless, to "prove" that increasing the minimum wage doesn't harm anyone. But they choose locations where the natural minimum wage is already far above the legal minimum wage, so that the local law is actually irrelevant. But look at what's happening in Seattle. Hours are being cut, business near the city limits are closing due to competition, people are losing their jobs.

And remember that the people who are hurt by this are the people at the bottom of the economic totem pole - the ones who can least afford the hit. People with no HS diploma, single parents working part time to make ends meet. And so on.

Any time the Government (or any supervening force) steps in and imposes a price (wage) that is higher than the natural minimum, three things occur: (1) the consumers of that commodity use less of it (i.e., hours and headcount are cut), (b) the consumers seek alternatives (automation, self-service), and (3) a black market is formed by people who will skirt the law for their own benefit.

Every minimum wage increase will reduce the chances of high school kids getting part time and summer jobs. At $15/hr, there are a LOT of retired people, working mothers, and others who had given up work, who will come out of the woodwork. And what employer would prefer a pimply high school kid to a retired grandmother?

The minimum wage was increased in 2009 when Dems had control of the House and Senate

Hasn’t been raised since

 

[SobieskiSavedEurope]

Small businesses shouldn't have a minimum wage, but government should pump it up to 15, while corporations should have a 15 hour wage because they can afford it.

 

[boedicca]

The obvious fix is to get rid of the minimum wage altogether. Individuals should be free to set the the price for their labor.

 

[Skull Pilot]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

So you want to make it harder and more expensive for employers to hire people right?

There are some jobs that do not merit high pay just like there are some employees that don't merit a raise every year

The idea that a job must pay enough for anyone to live a defined lifestyle is ridiculous.

A job picking up piles of dog crap pays what it's worth to the market if you want to earn more then better yourself so that your skill set includes more than the minimum required to pick up dog crap.

 

[Toronado3800]

The obvious fix is to get rid of the minimum wage altogether. Individuals should be free to set the the price for their labor.

Ideally yes.

But we don't live in that ideal world where socialism or capitalism really work in their pure form. Too much of a minimum wage and people get lazy. None and you have this race to the bottom and the power of money takes over.

So I argue about things in the middle.

This seems to be the history of how "high" the minimum wage is. Them peaks and valleys are stupid and just make busy work for politicians.

Minimum wage in the United States - Wikipedia

 

[Toronado3800]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

So you want to make it harder and more expensive for employers to hire people right?

There are some jobs that do not merit high pay just like there are some employees that don't merit a raise every year

The idea that a job must pay enough for anyone to live a defined lifestyle is ridiculous.

A job picking up piles of dog crap pays what it's worth to the market if you want to earn more then better yourself so that your skill set includes more than the minimum required to pick up dog crap.

Unemployment isn't a problem.

I also didn't say much about increasing minimum wage, just tying it to inflation. If anything that saves some time in congress.

FWIW, now that you mention it, tying minimum wage to CEO pay just might help companies stay more profitable.

 

[Skull Pilot]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

So you want to make it harder and more expensive for employers to hire people right?

There are some jobs that do not merit high pay just like there are some employees that don't merit a raise every year

The idea that a job must pay enough for anyone to live a defined lifestyle is ridiculous.

A job picking up piles of dog crap pays what it's worth to the market if you want to earn more then better yourself so that your skill set includes more than the minimum required to pick up dog crap.

Unemployment isn't a problem.

I also didn't say much about increasing minimum wage, just tying it to inflation. If anything that saves some time in congress.

FWIW, now that you mention it, tying minimum wage to CEO pay just might help companies stay more profitable.

I never mentioned unemployment but the ever increasing labor costs that you want will certainly make employers hire less as well as making them increase prices at a higher than the inflation rate pace so as to keep up with rising costs of doing business

And FWIW most people don't work for big corporations with high paid CEOS so why would their pay be related to what a CEO of a company they don't work for makes?

 

[Toro]

Easy.

Get rid of it.

 

[boedicca]

The obvious fix is to get rid of the minimum wage altogether. Individuals should be free to set the the price for their labor.

Ideally yes.

But we don't live in that ideal world where socialism or capitalism really work in their pure form. Too much of a minimum wage and people get lazy. None and you have this race to the bottom and the power of money takes over.

So I argue about things in the middle.

This seems to be the history of how "high" the minimum wage is. Them peaks and valleys are stupid and just make busy work for politicians.

Minimum wage in the United States - Wikipedia

So what you are promoting is a corrupt distortion of natural market forces.

Capitalism and Socialism are not morally equivalent systems. The former is based on Freedom. The Latter is based on Authoritarian Slavery. Compromising by mixing the two doesn't improve natural markets. In reality, it just makes more poor people.

The last three centuries are what you get from Capitalism; the prior periods are what you get under authoritarian regimes.

 

[Oddball]

You cannot fix what is inherently morally wrong and economically foolhardy.

The State has shown, innumerable times, that it is entirely incapable of setting prices for anything, let alone labor.

The entire premise of the minimum wage should be abandoned altogether, as an irrelevant and useless tool of central planner halfwits.

 

[danielpalos]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

seems like a good measure. the minimum wage should be indexed to something so it is more automatic than the whim of Congress.

And, we could be raising more tax revenue with a higher minimum wage.

And, higher paid labor creates more in demand.

Unemployment compensation for simply being unemployed solves Labor's problem.

Means tested welfare can cover the rest.

 

[Toronado3800]

The obvious fix is to get rid of the minimum wage altogether. Individuals should be free to set the the price for their labor.

Ideally yes.

But we don't live in that ideal world where socialism or capitalism really work in their pure form. Too much of a minimum wage and people get lazy. None and you have this race to the bottom and the power of money takes over.

So I argue about things in the middle.

This seems to be the history of how "high" the minimum wage is. Them peaks and valleys are stupid and just make busy work for politicians.

Minimum wage in the United States - Wikipedia

So what you are promoting is a corrupt distortion of natural market forces.

Capitalism and Socialism are not morally equivalent systems. The former is based on Freedom. The Latter is based on Authoritarian Slavery. Compromising by mixing the two doesn't improve natural markets. In reality, it just makes more poor people.

The last three centuries are what you get from Capitalism; the prior periods are what you get under authoritarian regimes.

View attachment 228352

Sometimes I think on here we find battles where they are not necessary. I'm not advocating we return to a system where some king's whim makes right or whatever.

Are you arguing for lawless capitalism where the ability to pay folks makes might?

 

[Oddball]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

For the life of me, I can't explain why The State should be setting any price for anything.

The moment you fix the foolish minimum wage to GDP, some do-gooder will come along and say that it's not good enough and want to change it again.

The annals of history are littered with the corpses of central economic planners everywhere. What sort of vanity is it that makes anyone think that they can make centralized price fixing work this time around?

 

[Oddball]

Sometimes I think on here we find battles where they are not necessary. I'm not advocating we return to a system where some king's whim makes right or whatever.

Are you arguing for lawless capitalism where the ability to pay folks makes might?

"Lawless capitalism" is a throwaway political talking point.

 

[Toronado3800]

For the life of me I can't figure out why we don't just tie minimum wage to the Consumer Price Index or something. Have it adjust yearly and leave it alone.

We COULD attach it to Gross Domestic Product, give everyone "skin in the game" so to say.

We COULD attach it to some measurement of Board of Directors pay/reimbursement packages for humorous effect.

Where would my first idea about the Consumer Price Index go wrong or is there a better measure?

For the life of me, I can't explain why The State should be setting any price for anything.

The moment you fix the foolish minimum wage to GDP, some do-gooder will come along and say that it's not good enough and want to change it again.

The annals of history are littered with the corpses of central economic planners everywhere. What sort of vanity is it that makes anyone think that they can make price fixing work this time around?

Of course someone will. Its a fallacy though that we should not try. Certainly something on my 98 Lincoln is going to go and break in the near future. Doesn't mean I shouldn't do a little maintenance today.

Also I would argue by tying it to CPI (or whatever) we would be making it LESS necessary for folks to have to go in and readjust it every so often.

 

[boedicca]

The obvious fix is to get rid of the minimum wage altogether. Individuals should be free to set the the price for their labor.

Ideally yes.

But we don't live in that ideal world where socialism or capitalism really work in their pure form. Too much of a minimum wage and people get lazy. None and you have this race to the bottom and the power of money takes over.

So I argue about things in the middle.

This seems to be the history of how "high" the minimum wage is. Them peaks and valleys are stupid and just make busy work for politicians.

Minimum wage in the United States - Wikipedia

So what you are promoting is a corrupt distortion of natural market forces.

Capitalism and Socialism are not morally equivalent systems. The former is based on Freedom. The Latter is based on Authoritarian Slavery. Compromising by mixing the two doesn't improve natural markets. In reality, it just makes more poor people.

The last three centuries are what you get from Capitalism; the prior periods are what you get under authoritarian regimes.

View attachment 228352

Sometimes I think on here we find battles where they are not necessary. I'm not advocating we return to a system where some king's whim makes right or whatever.

Are you arguing for lawless capitalism where the ability to pay folks makes might?

What you are advocating for is the socialist bureaucrat's whim, which is even worse than the king's. At least with a King, there is one throat to cut. Anonymous bureaucrats are never held accountable and do a great deal of damage.

 

[Toronado3800]

Sometimes I think on here we find battles where they are not necessary. I'm not advocating we return to a system where some king's whim makes right or whatever.

Are you arguing for lawless capitalism where the ability to pay folks makes might?

"Lawless capitalism" is a throwaway political talking point.

Because you don't want lawless capitalism? You want regulated capitalism and we are just disagreeing on particulars of those regulations?