I thought GM had paid us back Libs, another Obama lie?

[Care4all]

I thought GM had paid us back Libs, another Obama lie?

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Mr Shaman it is unclear to me what the loss of 40+- billion dollars of tax payers wealth is funny
Thats my money
thats my sons money
thats not BHO nor the UAWs
GM 50 billion
GMAC 18 billion and the best i can tell we have got 23 billion back so far
GM Raises $23 Billion in Stock Sale

didn't they have 3 years in the agreement with Bush to pay back their loans.....so they have until 2012?

(Are the bankers responsible for paying back the 700 billion we gave them and if so, in what time period do they have to pay us back, 3 years as well?)

Did you calculate how much money the us gvt got in income taxes from all of the people working within the auto industry including parts makers that kept their jobs, and how much the gvt would have spent in unemployment benefits if they had been laid off, and taken these amounts out of the 40 billion you claim gm owes us?

I think a thorough analysis should be done instead of shooting from the hip....and I am curious on the Bank Bailouts, if they have to be paid back.....and how well are they doing in paying us back( if they had to)....so we can see and compare the auto bailout with the banking bailout and see who is hurting us worse, or done better with the money we gave them...

 

[8537]

That "equity" is about as valuable as an account with Bernie Madoff's investment firm.

GM: $31.42
52 week range: 29.17-39.48
Market cap: 49.04 Billion dollars.

Let me repeat that:
Market Cap: 49.04 Billion dollars.

 

[JRK]

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Mr Shaman it is unclear to me what the loss of 40+- billion dollars of tax payers wealth is funny
Thats my money
thats my sons money
thats not BHO nor the UAWs
GM 50 billion
GMAC 18 billion and the best i can tell we have got 23 billion back so far
GM Raises $23 Billion in Stock Sale

didn't they have 3 years in the agreement with Bush to pay back their loans.....so they have until 2012?

(Are the bankers responsible for paying back the 700 billion we gave them and if so, in what time period do they have to pay us back, 3 years as well?)

Did you calculate how much money the us gvt got in income taxes from all of the people working within the auto industry including parts makers that kept their jobs, and how much the gvt would have spent in unemployment benefits if they had been laid off, and taken these amounts out of the 40 billion you claim gm owes us?

I think a thorough analysis should be done instead of shooting from the hip....and I am curious on the Bank Bailouts, if they have to be paid back.....and how well are they doing in paying us back( if they had to)....so we can see and compare the auto bailout with the banking bailout and see who is hurting us worse, or done better with the money we gave them...

I cannot find an honest answer as to how much is owed to the american tax payer. I can tell you the 23 billion is the most I can find
GM Raises $23 Billion in Stock Sale
Thats from GM
there is a number of 11.7 billion from the treasury
Treasury gets $11.7 billion from GM stock sale - Yahoo! Finance
As far as GWB agreement?
it was 3 months
After weeks of uncertainty and contentious debate, General Motors and Chrysler will get up to $17.4 billion in federal loans to stave off bankruptcy, but they have until March 31 to come up with restructuring plans or they'll have to repay the money immediately, President Bush said on Friday.
There was some who as usual lied and stated that meant chapter 11
Like hell, that means Chapter 7, liquidate, get the tax payers wealth back and cut them loose
Obama kicked that to the curb and bought 2 car companies with our money

Read more: GM, Chrysler get federal loans to stave off collapse - AutoWeek

 

[JRK]

That "equity" is about as valuable as an account with Bernie Madoff's investment firm.

GM: $31.42
52 week range: 29.17-39.48
Market cap: 49.04 Billion dollars.

Let me repeat that:
Market Cap: 49.04 Billion dollars.

So if the treasury goes out and tries to sale this stock, all of it, today at 31.42 a share we would get 49 billion
let me repeat that
trying to sale every share of GM that the tax payer paid for at once will not effect the stock price?
let me add to that
thats still short, the first payment was from tarp

AS we inch closer to a clearer understanding of the products and practices that unleashed the credit crisis of 2008, it’s becoming apparent that those seeking the whole truth are still outnumbered by those aiming to obscure it. This is the case not only on Wall Street but also in Washington.

Truth seekers the nation over, therefore, are indebted to Senator Charles E. Grassley, Republican of Iowa, who in recent days uncovered what he called a government-enabled “TARP money shuffle.” It relates to General Motors, which on April 21 paid the balance of its $6.7 billion loan under the Troubled Asset Relief Program.

G.M. trumpeted its escape from the program as evidence that it had turned the corner in its operations. “G.M. is able to repay the taxpayers in full, with interest, ahead of schedule, because more customers are buying vehicles like the Chevrolet Malibu and Buick LaCrosse,” boasted Edward E. Whitacre Jr., its chief executive.

G.M. also crowed about its loan repayment in a national television ad and the United States Treasury also marked the moment with a press release: “We are encouraged that G.M. has repaid its debt well ahead of schedule and confident that the company is on a strong path to viability,” said Timothy F. Geithner, the Treasury secretary.

Taxpayers are naturally eager for news about bailout repayments. But what neither G.M. nor the Treasury disclosed was that the company simply used other funds held by the Treasury to pay off its original loan.
NYT: GM, Treasury lied about bailout repayment « Hot Air
GMAC got 17.2 billion
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/11/business/11tarp.html
and all I can find that the tax payer really ever got back was the 11. 7 billion
Treasury gets $11.7b in GM stock sale - Boston.com
so lets see
thats 11.7 billion we have got back from a total cost of 72 billion
Not even close
Can GM repay our $50 billion loan? - DailyFinance
it is simple math
50+17+6.7= 73.7
subtract 11.7
leaves 62 billion
let me repeat
62 billion

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, that would have been better. Bankruptcy is the way capitalism clears away mistakes and bad management.

Huh?! Bankruptcy is just the plan to let equity holders off the hook for mistakes.

There are several forms of bankruptcy. The kind being discussed here is where the company assets are liquidated. If not, then why where you whining about how all those jobs would be lost? Of course, all you really care about is whether the UAW union thugs will maintain their stranglehold on the company. You don't give a hoot about jobs, per se.

The main mistake GM made was agreeing to the terms imposed on them by union thugs.

 

[bripat9643]

Is there anything at all you're basing that assertion on?

Yes, unloading 27% of GM all at once is likely to lower the stock price, but what does that have to do with making a profit or not? (worth mentioning that it's unlikely to happen like that, but irrelevant to the question)

It's based on basic economics. I'm not some turd who has to site some government economist to support my claims. As we've ben discussing through this entire thread, whether the government makes a profit depends on the price of the shares when they are sold. What's unlikely to happen is that the share price will ever be high enough for the government to make a profit, especially with Obama in the Whitehouse.

 

[JRK]

Yes, that would have been better. Bankruptcy is the way capitalism clears away mistakes and bad management.

Huh?! Bankruptcy is just the plan to let equity holders off the hook for mistakes.

There are several forms of bankruptcy. The kind being discussed here is where the company assets are liquidated. If not, then why where you whining about how all those jobs would be lost? Of course, all you really care about is whether the UAW union thugs will maintain their stranglehold on the company. You don't give a hoot about jobs, per se.

The main mistake GM made was agreeing to the terms imposed on them by union thugs.

It also will fail again in time
I dis agree with the jobs lost
GM gets there parts as much from over seas as any-one
the jobs lost would have been replace by non union people in the south
There lies the issue

 

[8537]

Yes, that would have been better. Bankruptcy is the way capitalism clears away mistakes and bad management.

Huh?! Bankruptcy is just the plan to let equity holders off the hook for mistakes.

There are several forms of bankruptcy. The kind being discussed here is where the company assets are liquidated. If not, then why where you whining about how all those jobs would be lost? Of course, all you really care about is whether the UAW union thugs will maintain their stranglehold on the company. You don't give a hoot about jobs, per se.

The main mistake GM made was agreeing to the terms imposed on them by union thugs.

It doesn't matter what type of bankruptcy is used - in the end, it's a way to protect owners personal wealth from the creditors to whom they owe money.

 

[bripat9643]

Yes, that would have been better. Bankruptcy is the way capitalism clears away mistakes and bad management.

Huh?! Bankruptcy is just the plan to let equity holders off the hook for mistakes.

there are several forms of bankruptcy. The kind we are discussing here is where all the company assets are liquidated. If we aren't discussing that, then why would libtards whine about jobs being lost? Simple: they don't care about jobs. They only care about the UAW thugs maintaining control.

 

[CountofTuscany]

GM's Profits are Still a Huge Net Loss For Taxpayers - Megan McArdle - Business - The Atlantic
This is a good story and a very bad event.
The GOP is going to have a field day with this stuff in 2012

What they paid us back was with even more borrowed money. So yes, it is anaother lie.

 

[bripat9643]

That "equity" is about as valuable as an account with Bernie Madoff's investment firm.

GM: $31.42
52 week range: 29.17-39.48
Market cap: 49.04 Billion dollars.

Let me repeat that:
Market Cap: 49.04 Billion dollars.

Until the stocks are sold, they so-called "value" is a fiction.

 

[8537]

For those keeping score at home, I was actually hoping the government would sponsor an organized wind-down of GM an Chrysler over a long period of time - an orderly selling of assets etc...

 

[Meister]

Huh?! Bankruptcy is just the plan to let equity holders off the hook for mistakes.

There are several forms of bankruptcy. The kind being discussed here is where the company assets are liquidated. If not, then why where you whining about how all those jobs would be lost? Of course, all you really care about is whether the UAW union thugs will maintain their stranglehold on the company. You don't give a hoot about jobs, per se.

The main mistake GM made was agreeing to the terms imposed on them by union thugs.

It doesn't matter what type of bankruptcy is used - in the end, it's a way to protect owners personal wealth from the creditors to whom they owe money.

I thought incorporating a company was the means to protect the owners personal wealth.

 

[Meister]

For those keeping score at home, I was actually hoping the government would sponsor an organized wind-down of GM an Chrysler over a long period of time - an orderly selling of assets etc...

That IS dangerous, our government was never set up to do this type of governing, and gives them waaaaayyyyy tooooo much power if they went down that road.

 

[8537]

There are several forms of bankruptcy. The kind being discussed here is where the company assets are liquidated. If not, then why where you whining about how all those jobs would be lost? Of course, all you really care about is whether the UAW union thugs will maintain their stranglehold on the company. You don't give a hoot about jobs, per se.

The main mistake GM made was agreeing to the terms imposed on them by union thugs.

It doesn't matter what type of bankruptcy is used - in the end, it's a way to protect owners personal wealth from the creditors to whom they owe money.

I thought incorporating a company was the means to protect the owners personal wealth.

Yes, indeed. It creates a situation where an owner is not held responsible for the debt he creates under the name of his company.

It's why Donald Trump isn't lining up at the TANF office each month.

 

[8537]

For those keeping score at home, I was actually hoping the government would sponsor an organized wind-down of GM an Chrysler over a long period of time - an orderly selling of assets etc...

That IS dangerous, our government was never set up to do this type of governing, and gives them waaaaayyyyy tooooo much power if they went down that road.

In a sea of really bad choices, imho it's the least bad.

 

[Care4all]

Mr Shaman it is unclear to me what the loss of 40+- billion dollars of tax payers wealth is funny
Thats my money
thats my sons money
thats not BHO nor the UAWs
GM 50 billion
GMAC 18 billion and the best i can tell we have got 23 billion back so far
GM Raises $23 Billion in Stock Sale

didn't they have 3 years in the agreement with Bush to pay back their loans.....so they have until 2012?

(Are the bankers responsible for paying back the 700 billion we gave them and if so, in what time period do they have to pay us back, 3 years as well?)

Did you calculate how much money the us gvt got in income taxes from all of the people working within the auto industry including parts makers that kept their jobs, and how much the gvt would have spent in unemployment benefits if they had been laid off, and taken these amounts out of the 40 billion you claim gm owes us?

I think a thorough analysis should be done instead of shooting from the hip....and I am curious on the Bank Bailouts, if they have to be paid back.....and how well are they doing in paying us back( if they had to)....so we can see and compare the auto bailout with the banking bailout and see who is hurting us worse, or done better with the money we gave them...

I cannot find an honest answer as to how much is owed to the american tax payer. I can tell you the 23 billion is the most I can find
GM Raises $23 Billion in Stock Sale
Thats from GM
there is a number of 11.7 billion from the treasury
Treasury gets $11.7 billion from GM stock sale - Yahoo! Finance
As far as GWB agreement?
it was 3 months
After weeks of uncertainty and contentious debate, General Motors and Chrysler will get up to $17.4 billion in federal loans to stave off bankruptcy, but they have until March 31 to come up with restructuring plans or they'll have to repay the money immediately, President Bush said on Friday.
There was some who as usual lied and stated that meant chapter 11
Like hell, that means Chapter 7, liquidate, get the tax payers wealth back and cut them loose
Obama kicked that to the curb and bought 2 car companies with our money

Read more: GM, Chrysler get federal loans to stave off collapse - AutoWeek

JRK
fyi....I am not certain they lied by saying this was chapter 11 vs chapter 7, BECAUSE the term "RESTRUCTURING PLAN" was used by President Bush(see the comment you posted above by President Bush)....and Chapter 11 IS restructuring bankruptcy, and chapter 7 is liquidation bankruptcy....at least if memory serves me.....

 

[Uncensored2008]

For those keeping score at home, I was actually hoping the government would sponsor an organized wind-down of GM an Chrysler over a long period of time - an orderly selling of assets etc...

That would have been the most advantageous course for the market and for the American people.

 

[TheBrain]

For those keeping score at home, I was actually hoping the government would sponsor an organized wind-down of GM an Chrysler over a long period of time - an orderly selling of assets etc...

That would have been the most advantageous course for the market and for the American people.

No, the most advantageous would have been for the government to stay out of it altogether. if Chrysler had folded, or GM, another company would have purchased any assets of value and employees who were worth having. That's how a free market works. Ford, or Toyota, or whomever would have stepped in to fill the production void left by either of these companies death.

And that's if they would have died anyway. Chance are that either, and especially GM , would have survived bankruptcy intact.

 

[Sallow]

So Ford and all the rest Survived how without the handout's?

They didn't survive without handouts.

If GM collapsed, Ford would have gone too.

It's amazing how little some people know how these things work.

Good for me..by the way..I invested in Ford and made a killing..

As did I. So let me get this right you're saying that by giving GM an unfair advantage of Billions in operating capital it helped Ford Survive? Is that really what you're trying to suggest?

Suggest?

That's exactly what happened.

The executive board at Ford would tell you the very same thing.