I seem to have forgotten the official story on why we must attack Iran.

[RetiredGySgt]

It worked until we decided against it. My kids are in their thirty and have never been alive during a time we weren't bombing or killing someone. Remember when Trump ran on NO MORE FOREVER WARS IN THE ME?

it doesnt work it is like feeding the alligator some to avoid being eaten, eventually the alligator eats you anyway.

 

[JoeB131]

Jews went where their Homeland was for thousands of years.

Funny, they didn't seem to be in any hurry to get there before 1945

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

Funny, they didn't seem to be in any hurry to get there before 1945

And now they're in no hurry to leave.

 

[Slyhunter]

Funny, they didn't seem to be in any hurry to get there before 1945

palestinians happily sold them their lands.
what do you thhink about third worlders, like Africans or Muslims flocking, unwanted, to America?

 

[Zavulon]

THEY are chanting death to America.

Half of the world (or even more) is chanting "Death to America", and sing even more sophisticated and joyful songs (like, say, "KirgyZ pilots are bombing Washington")

THEY are seeking a nuke.

Israel already has nukes. And in the modern world, nukes is the only thing that possibly can guarantee safety and independence of the state. And, by the way, the USA are not that enthusiastic neither about bombing India, nor about bombing Brazil.

THEY are funding terrorism.

The largest sponsor of terrorism (whatever you mean by this term) is America.

 

[JoeB131]

palestinians happily sold them their lands.
what do you thhink about third worlders, like Africans or Muslims flocking, unwanted, to America?

I think that when you build a country on stolen land, you have no business complaining about who immigrates in.

 

[Correll]

Half of the world (or even more) is chanting "Death to America", and sing even more sophisticated and joyful songs (like, say, "KirgyZ pilots are bombing Washington")

And I think we should consider that, when it comes to who we let into the country adn who we trade with and who we bomb the **** out of.

So.... yeah.

Israel already has nukes. And in the modern world, nukes is the only thing that possibly can guarantee safety and independence of the state. And, by the way, the USA are not that enthusiastic neither about bombing India, nor about bombing Brazil.

YOu know, one of the few things I give credit to the soviets about, is that were pretty good with NOT exporting nuke tech to others.

hell, you guys still have the tech, nothing stopping you from selling to EVERYONE.

So, why aren't you just SHIPPING finished, functional nukes, to Iran, if it is just fine?


That would change shit fast.

Yet, even Putin, with russian men dying from american weapons, hasn't even hinted at that.


Because he knows that Iran is not a reasonable actor, and should not have the bomb.

The largest sponsor of terrorism (whatever you mean by this term) is America.

HAHAHAHAHAA.

Save for your leftard buddies..

 

[Zavulon]

And I think we should consider that, when it comes to who we let into the country adn who we trade with and who we bomb the **** out of.

So.... yeah.




YOu know, one of the few things I give credit to the soviets about, is that were pretty good with NOT exporting nuke tech to others.

hell, you guys still have the tech, nothing stopping you from selling to EVERYONE.

There is basic logic - when little privileged nuclear club becomes larges - every it's member becomes less privileged.

So, why aren't you just SHIPPING finished, functional nukes, to Iran, if it is just fine?


That would change shit fast.

Yet, even Putin, with russian men dying from american weapons, hasn't even hinted at that.

Actually, Medvedev suggested selling (or nuclear sharing) almost a year ago. But previous leadership didn't agree, they thought nuclear weapons (as any WMDs) are sin by the very nature (or, may be, they thought it's too expensive). But now they are dead, and the new government might change their mind. Right now both Russia and Iran are discussing those matters on NPT-conference. May be, Russia will sell nukes to Iran (but the price will be pretty significant, while lower than the price of potential defeat). May be, Russia will make some nuclear-sharing contract with Iran. Or, may be, another solution will be found and America will f#ck off without being actually nuked (not that I really expected it). Even new Iranian government isn't very enthusiastic about buying or renting nukes. It's not just very expensive in buying and maintaining during peace-time, it brings additional risks in the case of a war.

 

[Correll]

There is basic logic - when little privileged nuclear club becomes larges - every it's member becomes less privileged.


Actually, Medvedev suggested selling (or nuclear sharing) almost a year ago. But previous leadership didn't agree, they thought nuclear weapons (as any WMDs) are sin by the very nature (or, may be, they thought it's too expensive). But now they are dead, and the new government might change their mind. Right now both Russia and Iran are discussing those matters on NPT-conference. May be, Russia will sell nukes to Iran (but the price will be pretty significant, while lower than the price of potential defeat). May be, Russia will make some nuclear-sharing contract with Iran. Or, may be, another solution will be found and America will f#ck off without being actually nuked (not that I really expected it). Even new Iranian government isn't very enthusiastic about buying or renting nukes. It's not just very expensive in buying and maintaining during peace-time, it brings additional risks in the case of a war.

oK. We can't stop you. If you think that Iran is a reasonable and sane actor, that you trust with nukes, then stop talking and start shipping.

LEt's roll those dice and see if you are correct.

And if you are wrong, we get to have a regional nuclear exhange, taking a huge portion of the world's energy out of production, for generations.

Probably not MAD MAX ROAD WARRIOR APOCALYPSE, but generations long economic....

Hell, a full on DARK AGE, would be a real possiblity.


Balls in your court russkie. You that confident, do it. Let's see what happens.


Mmm, I wonder if Isreal would nuke you guys out of spite in that scenario?

 

[Zavulon]

oK. We can't stop you. If you think that Iran is a reasonable and sane actor, that you trust with nukes, then stop talking and start shipping.

Of course they are more sane and reasonable guys than France, England and Israel. I'd prefer to see their nukes removed. But even if decision is made, there will be a hell of paperwork to organise it correctly.

LEt's roll those dice and see if you are correct.

And if you are wrong, we get to have a regional nuclear exhange, taking a huge portion of the world's energy out of production, for generations.

C'mon, you can't be serious. Given the disbalance of non-strategic nuclear weapons, if Russia and America decide to play a regional nuclear war (without hitting mainlands of each other) - it will be pretty short and surgical elimination of Israeli nuclear forces (and, may be, sinking SSBN Alaska in Western Mediterranean, if you designate it as a "tactical launcher").
And ASB, as far as I know, significantly underestimated Russian tactical nuclear weapons.

Hell, a full on DARK AGE, would be a real possiblity.

If you don't want it - you should alleviate now.

Mmm, I wonder if Isreal would nuke you guys out of spite in that scenario?

Your decision-makers are too smart for it. They do know, that if they do it, both America and Israel will be virtually annihilated.

 

[Correll]

Of course they are more sane and reasonable guys than France, England and Israel. I'd prefer to see their nukes removed. But even if decision is made, there will be a hell of paperwork to organise it correctly.

Shit talk, cause you know it's not going to happen.

You know, I know, Putin knows, that Iran is run by a bunch of retarded, inbred, lunatics.

So, you, Russia, will talk shit, but NOT ship them nukes. And secretly, you are fine with us bombing the shit out of their nuke program.

C'mon, you can't be serious. Given the disbalance of non-strategic nuclear weapons, if Russia and America decide to play a regional nuclear war (without hitting mainlands of each other) - it will be pretty short and surgical elimination of Israeli nuclear forces (and, may be, sinking SSBN Alaska in Western Mediterranean, if you designate it as a "tactical launcher").
And ASB, as far as I know, significantly underestimated Russian tactical nuclear weapons.
View attachment 1257285

Don't play retard. You aren't shipping the nukes cause you don't want a regional nuke exchange that will destroy the world enonomy.

EVERYTHING you say, is shit talk to hide that.

If you don't want it - you should alleviate now.

I'm not doing shit, becasue I trust that Putin will NOT ship nukes to Iran.

Your decision-makers are too smart for it. They do know, that if they do it, both America and Israel will be virtually annihilated.

If Iran nukes Isreal, Isreal might not have anything or much more to lose. Getting revenge on the idiots that gave nukes to retarded madman, might be worth it from that perspective.


I would certainly want to take you with me. If I was an isreali making that call.


So, either shit or get off the pot. ie SHIP THE NUKES, or stop your whining.

 

[Zavulon]

Shit talk, cause you know it's not going to happen.

You know, I know, Putin knows, that Iran is run by a bunch of retarded, inbred, lunatics.

We both know, that it's all bullshit and delusional propaganda. Iranian government is quite competent to survive all those years under all those sanctions, fight one direct war with Iraq plus a number of proxy wars and even develop their nuclear program and a lot of modern weapons (including some, to be copied by Russia and America later). They are quite smart and tolerant to make business with all countries who want to make business with them. And they are smart enough to calculate possible consequences of both acquisition and usage of nukes. They are cautious guys, may be too cautious.
We both know, that it's not about mythical Iranian nuclear program. It, in the best for American people case, is about oil, and in more realistic case - about personal Trump's ambitions about starting hos own money laundering forever war on the Middle East.

So, you, Russia, will talk shit, but NOT ship them nukes. And secretly, you are fine with us bombing the shit out of their nuke program.

We both know, there is no military nuclear program. You are bombing civilian infrastructure and it creates more threats to Non Prolifiration Treaty, than any hypothetical nuke program would create.

Don't play retard. You aren't shipping the nukes cause you don't want a regional nuke exchange that will destroy the world enonomy.

You see, destruction of Middle East as result of a regional nuclear war, however bad it could be, is lesser evil, comparing with destruction of Middle East as result of "American leadership and democratisation" as we observed in Iraq, Libya and Syria.
And no, this hypothetical war would "destroy" world economy lesser than western sanctions had "destroyed" Russian economy. And we simply don't give a fig about it.

I'm not doing shit, becasue I trust that Putin will NOT ship nukes to Iran.

About fourteen months ago you were sure that Russian Ukrainian war would end in few weeks, weren't you? You should have spend a hundred dollars to remember it.

If Iran nukes Isreal, Isreal might not have anything or much more to lose.

It simply not true. In the case of the surgical Iranian strike on Israeli nuclear bases Israel will still have ten millions of civilians to lose on the case of retaliation strike.

I would certainly want to take you with me. If I was an isreali making that call.

That's why you are not a Jew. If they have a choice - to beg Russians to defend them from Iranian nukes (especially if they know, that it were Russians who gave Iranians those nukes) or to make a useless jesture, kill some Russians but die out after - they won't commit suicide.

So, either shit or get off the pot. ie SHIP THE NUKES, or stop your whining.

You are the one who is whining. We can either keep conflict on this level or can escalate.

 

[Correll]

We both know, that it's all bullshit and delusional propaganda. Iranian government is quite competent to survive all those years under all those sanctions, fight one direct war with Iraq plus a number of proxy wars and even develop their nuclear program and a lot of modern weapons (including some, to be copied by Russia and America later). They are quite smart and tolerant to make business with all countries who want to make business with them. And they are smart enough to calculate possible consequences of both acquisition and usage of nukes. They are cautious guys, may be too cautious.
We both know, that it's not about mythical Iranian nuclear program. It, in the best for American people case, is about oil, and in more realistic case - about personal Trump's ambitions about starting hos own money laundering forever war on the Middle East.

We both know, there is no military nuclear program. You are bombing civilian infrastructure and it creates more threats to Non Prolifiration Treaty, than any hypothetical nuke program would create.

Why would there NOT be a iranian nuke program? As you point out, having nukes is a great way to deter aggression against you. It would certainly make future bombing by AMERICA much less likely. Assuming no first use by the iranians.

You see, destruction of Middle East as result of a regional nuclear war, however bad it could be, is lesser evil, comparing with destruction of Middle East as result of "American leadership and democratisation" as we observed in Iraq, Libya and Syria.
And no, this hypothetical war would "destroy" world economy lesser than western sanctions had "destroyed" Russian economy. And we simply don't give a fig about it.

Mmm, interesting claim. And I don't buy it. Sure you have been badly fucked by this current conflict. BUT, you know, PUTIN knows, that once it is over, either way, that in a few years, sanctions will relax and eventually go away.

A new dark age, will be a matter of generations.

About fourteen months ago you were sure that Russian Ukrainian war would end in few weeks, weren't you? You should have spend a hundred dollars to remember it.

A valid point. My judgement is not perfect. But, unfortunately, it is the only judgement I have. I am certainly not trusting YOURS, you come across as compeletely not credible.

If some source I trust, or find credible, starts saying that Russia is going to ship nukes to Iran, I will reexamine the issue.

But until then, sorry, i just don't buy it.

It simply not true. In the case of the surgical Iranian strike on Israeli nuclear bases Israel will still have ten millions of civilians to lose on the case of retaliation strike.


That's why you are not a Jew. If they have a choice - to beg Russians to defend them from Iranian nukes (especially if they know, that it were Russians who gave Iranians those nukes) or to make a useless jesture, kill some Russians but die out after - they won't commit suicide.

You are the one who is whining. We can either keep conflict on this level or can escalate.

I didn't post this thread, someone else did, and I responded.

I would prefer PEACE, but, this conflict, as you say, we can keep on at this level or escalate.

Escalation would be your choice to make. You are the ones losing at this level. Though I am not sure why you think escalation would make it better for you.

 

[Zavulon]

Why would there NOT be a iranian nuke program? As you point out, having nukes is a great way to deter aggression against you. It would certainly make future bombing by AMERICA much less likely. Assuming no first use by the iranians.

It's quite simple. First of all, having nuclear forces may change balance of power inside Iranian society. If the government is more interested in making their own nukes than in "soft power" (like supporting national liberation movements in other countries) it might cause tensions with changing financial streams inside country. Second, it decrease risks of being conventionally bombed, but it might increase risks of being nuked. And this is a thing a responsible government might want to avoid.

Mmm, interesting claim. And I don't buy it. Sure you have been badly fucked by this current conflict. BUT, you know, PUTIN knows, that once it is over, either way, that in a few years, sanctions will relax and eventually go away.

I very doubt that Ukrainian conflict will be ended in few years. Actually, given the nature of European regimes, it seems much more likely that even when Ukrainians are finished, they will send Poles and Baltic nazies in the meatgrinder. Say nothing about possibility of a limited nuclear war in Europe.

A new dark age, will be a matter of generations.

Yep. May be, even a matter of centuries, like it was after collapse of Western Roman Empire and the Catastrophe of the End of Bronze Age. But if alternatives are even worse - it is likely to happen.

A valid point. My judgement is not perfect. But, unfortunately, it is the only judgement I have. I am certainly not trusting YOURS, you come across as compeletely not credible.

If you'd actually lost one hundred dollars, it might make you to be more cautious about making optimistic predictions.

If some source I trust, or find credible, starts saying that Russia is going to ship nukes to Iran, I will reexamine the issue.

Ok. Let's wait for the end of NPT conference.

I would prefer PEACE, but, this conflict, as you say, we can keep on at this level or escalate.

Yes. And in both cases you certainly will be defeated. Or you can alleviate now, lose some weight, but earn some decades of peace to make necessary reforms, melt some of your fat in muscles and brains and take a better position for the further fights.

Escalation would be your choice to make.

May be. May be not.

You are the ones losing at this level.

Actually, no. Current situation is quite profitable for Russia, both economically and militarily.

Though I am not sure why you think escalation would make it better for you.

It's simple. Russia has much better ground both for conventional operation and/or for a limited nuclear war now.

 

[Correll]

It's quite simple. First of all, having nuclear forces may change balance of power inside Iranian society. If the government is more interested in making their own nukes than in "soft power" (like supporting national liberation movements in other countries) it might cause tensions with changing financial streams inside country. Second, it decrease risks of being conventionally bombed, but it might increase risks of being nuked. And this is a thing a responsible government might want to avoid.

You assume a responsible government. I see no evidence of that. I see the exact opposite in fact.

See the closing of the straits. Very irresponsible.

I very doubt that Ukrainian conflict will be ended in few years. Actually, given the nature of European regimes, it seems much more likely that even when Ukrainians are finished, they will send Poles and Baltic nazies in the meatgrinder. Say nothing about possibility of a limited nuclear war in Europe.

Very, very unlikely.

Yep. May be, even a matter of centuries, like it was after collapse of Western Roman Empire and the Catastrophe of the End of Bronze Age. But if alternatives are even worse - it is likely to happen.

But the alternative is not worse. Just hard to swallow.

If you'd actually lost one hundred dollars, it might make you to be more cautious about making optimistic predictions.


Ok. Let's wait for the end of NPT conference.

Hahahaha. why would I care about those losers?

Yes. And in both cases you certainly will be defeated. Or you can alleviate now, lose some weight, but earn some decades of peace to make necessary reforms, melt some of your fat in muscles and brains and take a better position for the further fights.


May be. May be not.


Actually, no. Current situation is quite profitable for Russia, both economically and militarily.

It's simple. Russia has much better ground both for conventional operation and/or for a limited nuclear war now.

THen DO IT.

BUt you won't. Because the reality is the opposite of what you are claiming.

 

[Zavulon]

You assume a responsible government. I see no evidence of that. I see the exact opposite in fact.

In fact, Iran has more allies than the USA nowadays. And it basically means that the world see Iran more responsible than the USA.

See the closing of the straits. Very irresponsible.

It's quite responsible. Something like soft power and coercion in peace.

But the alternative is not worse. Just hard to swallow.

Of course it worse.

Hahahaha. why would I care about those losers?

Because if there is the end of NPT, many countries, including some in America will acquire nukes. First of all, it means the start of the new nuclear race, second - more missiles, more buttons and more fingers on the buttons means less safer world for the USA. F#ck off from Middle East and Europe - and you'll have decades of peace to solve your inner problems. Continue you vain aggression - and you'll face at least limited nuclear war in few years.

THen DO IT.

BUt you won't. Because the reality is the opposite of what you are claiming.

We'll see. If you post here video with people toasting Zavulon, while drinking $150 worth alcohol drinks, may be, we'll make another betting about nuclearisation of Iran.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

In fact, Iran has more allies than the USA nowadays. And it basically means that the world see Iran more responsible than the USA.


It's quite responsible. Something like soft power and coercion in peace.


Of course it worse.


Because if there is the end of NPT, many countries, including some in America will acquire nukes. First of all, it means the start of the new nuclear race, second - more missiles, more buttons and more fingers on the buttons means less safer world for the USA. F#ck off from Middle East and Europe - and you'll have decades of peace to solve your inner problems. Continue you vain aggression - and you'll face at least limited nuclear war in few years.


We'll see. If you post here video with people toasting Zavulon, while drinking $150 worth alcohol drinks, may be, we'll make another betting about nuclearisation of Iran.

In fact, Iran has more allies than the USA nowadays.

You have a list?

 

[Zavulon]

In fact, Iran has more allies than the USA nowadays.

You have a list?

It would be too long, starting with minor regional players like Hezbollah in Lebanon, and ending with nuclear powers like Pakistan, Russia, China and North Korea.
It's much simpler to show the list of US "allies" in this conflict. It's Israel and, a bit lesser, UAE. That's all. And in both those countries there are significant inner problems caused by this war, for it's really unpopular among their people.

 

[Toddsterpatriot]

It would be too long, starting with minor regional players like Hezbollah in Lebanon, and ending with nuclear powers like Pakistan, Russia, China and North Korea.
It's much simpler to show the list of US "allies" in this conflict. It's Israel and, a bit lesser, UAE. That's all. And in both those countries there are significant inner problems caused by this war, for it's really unpopular among their people.

A terrorist group and four countries? Wow!

That's a lot!

 

[Zavulon]

A terrorist group and four countries? Wow!

That's a lot!

It's more than you have in this conflict. Even Kurds said "It's not our war", and Israel is playing games in Southern Levanon.

Actually, even majority in the USA do understand that Trump is wrong, and they don't need this war.