I reluctantly admit I think my wife is right.

berg80

berg80

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I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
 
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...


Most people, on both side, really on ALL sides, make their decisions based on what they are emotionally committed to.


The science on that is pretty clear.


When you try to say that it is the other side that does that, you are being anti-science.
 
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...

Snopes? LOL

More like Nopes!
 
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...
Never never admit your wife is right never never never
 
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...
1). Snopes is a leftwing site masquerading as an unbiased source. It is financed by leftwing organizations.
2) "highly respected" is a leftwing buzzword that means "partisan leftwing". James Comey was presented as "highly respected". Merrick Garland was presented as "highly respected". Robert Mueller was presented as "highly respected". All turned out to be leftwing hacks.
 
Reflecting on my failed marriage I have to admit that she was a better wife than I was a husband. That said neither of us bonded with each other as we should have.
 
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...

Your wife is always right.
 
OODA_Loop said:
You guys sound like the life of the party.

The Communist Party.
Click to expand...
I guess we could have discussed whether Italian satellites corrupted the 2020 election results but another topic spontaneously took over the conversation.
 
What?!?!?

You sent your friend a cut-an-paste and he still wasn't convinced? An actual cut-and-paste? From the by Gawd New York Times!

You played the trump card, and your friend refused to acknowledge his defeat! (no pun intended, BTW)

End of sarcasm, here is the point:

Real life interactions with friends shouldn't be a message board debate. Interactions at work about politics should be even more avoided, unless it is a specifically political job.

Lefties, you disagreeing with someone is not "correcting" them. It is offering a differing opinion. Given how angry Dems and "not Dems" often get when anyone disagrees with them, but expecting thanks when they "correct" one of the "little people," shows how far from reality they often are.

"Your friend" having lost her husband, should be grateful that she has a man to take care of the house for her. Perhaps instead of trying to recreate another dynamic from her marriage by telling him when he's wrong, she should come out of the shower in a robe, offer him a beer and a sandwich and see if he takes the bait.
 
Correll said:
Most people, on both side, really on ALL sides, make their decisions based on what they are emotionally committed to.


The science on that is pretty clear.
Click to expand...
What science shows people's emotions leads them to believe factual inaccuracies?
 
Correll said:
Most people, on both side, really on ALL sides, make their decisions based on what they are emotionally committed to.


The science on that is pretty clear.


When you try to say that it is the other side that does that, you are being anti-science.
Click to expand...
Fighting confirmation bias is something we all have to do. And in these times, with all the Social Media, all the jackass so called "media" sites, it is pretty damn hard. I don't watch FOX News, but I sure as hell don't watch MSNBC or CNN. I don't subscribe to any You Tube channels. I have no social media accounts.

For the most part, as often as I can, I go straight to the source. This week for instance. The GDP report, the Jobs report, they were up on my computer within ten minutes of their posting. And I am digging, I am deep in the technical notes before the morning bell goes off. And what is amazing, damn media is already posting about the data, as if they had time to intuitively understand, in half an hour?
 
Seymour Flops said:
You sent your friend a cut-an-paste and he still wasn't convinced? An actual cut-and-paste? From the by Gawd New York Times!

You played the trump card, and your friend refused to acknowledge his defeat! (no pun intended, BTW)

End of sarcasm, here is the point:
Click to expand...
Was that sarcasm? It came across as more a way to squirm out from under the factual info provided by the Times in explaining how the BLS data is compiled.

But revisions are a normal part of the statistical process and, in fact, one of its strengths in balancing timeliness and accuracy of data. About one-third of the sampled businesses do not return their survey responses on time, so the initial numbers have to make imputations for the missing data. As more survey responses arrive at the B.L.S., the numbers are revised. In addition, the B.L.S. is constantly using an algorithm to do updated seasonal adjustment of its data (e.g., the normal pattern of hiring a lot of retail workers in November and December and laying them off in January); this algorithm was a major factor in the latest revision.

In his post, Trump accused the B.L.S. of having “manipulated for political purposes” the numbers. Not only is that claim far-fetched; it is also internally contradictory. The B.L.S. produced some large downward revisions of jobs numbers under President Joe Biden, too. The revisions were slightly different from these, because the Biden ones were part of an annual revision process using more reliable tax data. But Trump argued then that Biden helped himself by cooking the books by initially reporting high numbers, which were revised downward in August 2024.
 
berg80 said:
Was that sarcasm? It was more a way to squirm out from under the factual info provided by the Times in explaining how the BLS data is compiled.

But revisions are a normal part of the statistical process and, in fact, one of its strengths in balancing timeliness and accuracy of data. About one-third of the sampled businesses do not return their survey responses on time, so the initial numbers have to make imputations for the missing data. As more survey responses arrive at the B.L.S., the numbers are revised. In addition, the B.L.S. is constantly using an algorithm to do updated seasonal adjustment of its data (e.g., the normal pattern of hiring a lot of retail workers in November and December and laying them off in January); this algorithm was a major factor in the latest revision.

In his post, Trump accused the B.L.S. of having “manipulated for political purposes” the numbers. Not only is that claim far-fetched; it is also internally contradictory. The B.L.S. produced some large downward revisions of jobs numbers under President Joe Biden, too. The revisions were slightly different from these, because the Biden ones were part of an annual revision process using more reliable tax data. But Trump argued then that Biden helped himself by cooking the books by initially reporting high numbers, which were revised downward in August 2024.
Click to expand...
So, is this thread about whether Libs should "correct" their hired help about politics, or is it about whether the leaders of the Bureau of Labor Statistics are capable of using statistics to promote a political viewpoint, or is it just another "TRUMP SUX" thread?
 
15th post
berg80 said:
I threw a birthday party for my wife the other day. One of the attendees began speaking about a man she employees to work around the house (her husband died 5 years ago) to do odd jobs. Nice guy, I know him, he is a trump fan. She told us about how she had corrected him on a factual matter concerning politics. Referring him to the Snopes website for future reference. A debate ensued among the party attendees as to the efficacy of doing so. IOW, would being proven wrong change his mind about anything? Changing Beliefs - The Science PT

I said it is a worthwhile endeavor to confront someone with a misinformed belief. Most of the other folks there agreed with me. My wife dissented. After giving it further thought, and reflecting on my experience here, I'm coming around to her way of thinking. Why?

I just got in to a debate (by way of emails) with a friend of over 60 years about trump firing McEntarfer (he is a huge trump guy). The BLS lady. I sent him this cut and paste.......

Erika McEntarfer, the fired B.L.S. commissioner, is a highly respected economist with extensive experience in the production and analysis of government data. But she does not make policy in the way that someone like Powell does. Nor does the commissioner traditionally even make the particular numbers that the B.L.S. releases. Instead those numbers are produced by the 2,000 nonpartisan career staff members who work in the agency, in this case compiling the survey responses from the more than 100,000 businesses that report their employment to the B.L.S. every month. The numbers are finalized before they get to the commissioner, a political appointee but one who often serves across administrations. The role is much more about managing and overseeing the agency and making long-term decisions.

.........explaining why the firing was misguided. He responded by sending an article about Hillary Clinton, written by Matt Tiabbi, about why she should be in jail.

My takeaway is none of the evidence provided about how the labor stats are compiled has changed his mind about whether McEntarfer deserved to be fired. It's not something he is willing to consider. I suspect my friend's around the house worker reacted the same way when his belief was challenged. He will use the sources of info he relies on to reinforce his false belief and disregard the factual info on Snopes. And so it goes.
Click to expand...
That's the way it is with cult members. Their faith tRumps all facts to the contrary.
 
berg80 said:
What science shows people's emotions leads them to believe factual inaccuracies?
Click to expand...

Well, that was an interesting spin on my post.


But here you go. There are better, more concise studies, but I couldn't find them in the clutter of the interent. Sorry.

law.temple.edu

Emotional Decision Making: Hardwired and Helpful - Advocacy and Evidence Resources

By Kate Donoghue “Just take emotion out of it.” We have all probably been given, or have given, this advice when faced with a tough decision. But while we may try, doing so is not actually possible when it comes to how we make decisions. We all grew up in different households, under different
law.temple.edu
 
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