I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

[ChrisfromDenver]

The Bill of Rights doesn't give anyone the right to kill an innocnet person. If it is reasonable to think a person is not capable of stopping themselves from killing, then their rights can be terminated.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough.

The bill of rights and our laws provide significant protections for the accused. It is normal for these people (like Adam) to never of had a significant issue/run in/threat prior to the event. He might of been crazy, but crazy and a clear danger is a hurdle that is VERY hard to prove and cross. Therefore, it is unlikely to commit people like Adam prior to the event.. . because he is innocent until proven guilty.

 

[Katzndogz]

We allow the criminally insane out on the streets. Mentally ill adults cannot be medicated against their will. They cannot be stigmatized for being mentally ill. They cannot be discriminated against. They and their liberal supporters demand inclusion, tolerance and acceptance.

That damn bill of rights. . .

It is really tough


I don't think there is a clear answer. ..
Even if you were covered by insurance, very few providers will accept the contracted rate (psychiatric).

I haven't seen a lot of evidence. . maybe I just don't know. . .but do those things help? I think medication may be a goal, but we don't have a magic pill yet. Somehow the Adam Lanza's of the world I don't think a "good talk" can help.


So there has always been (and always be) spree killing. I think it comes down to a few core components:

1) Media - I do think they play a role. 24x7 USA Fox/CNN/etc. . . these are copycats.
2) Guns - access to firearms increase the chance of a armed crazy person
3) healthcare - as addressed above. How do other "free" countries take care of people like Lanza?

Armed crazy people don't have to be armed with guns. Do you really think that a class of six year olds could take down a knife wielding maniac?

 

[Mr. Jones]

The mentally ill should be removed and placed somewhere where they cannot harm others. This mother wants someone to step in and fix her son. He can't be fixed. He can't be understood or accommodated. He has to be removed and kept somewhere safe.

There have always been mentally unstable persons within societies, but with the new SSRI's being doled out by the pharma companies and the Drs. it has pushed some of these people over edges that has resulted in the rash of mass shootings and suicides. Data shows that these class of drugs are clearly NOT the answer, and yes the conversations should be about mental heath AND these drugs that are doing more harm then good., and are dispensed as a blanket solution and fix all for individuals, that need to be evaluated and cared for on a case by case analysis.

It is so typical that the solution that is being offered everywhere to this problem is the implementation of stricter gun laws and making the rest of the "normal" society acquiesce to even further restrictions and infringements of THEIR rights. Problem, reaction, solution. It is the goal of the state to rid or to at least start to disarm Americans, and sadly 20 children's lives is of no significance to them.

They want the American public to think the problem is with firearms when the REAL problem is with the mental health of some individuals and the Pharma companies solution to it.

It is not the guns that kill, it is the people that obtain them, and the medications they are given are the triggers, and people should know this by now.

 

[Mr. Jones]

The Bill of Rights doesn't give anyone the right to kill an innocnet person. If it is reasonable to think a person is not capable of stopping themselves from killing, then their rights can be terminated.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough.

The bill of rights and our laws provide significant protections for the accused. It is normal for these people (like Adam) to never of had a significant issue/run in/threat prior to the event. He might of been crazy, but crazy and a clear danger is a hurdle that is VERY hard to prove and cross. Therefore, it is unlikely to commit people like Adam prior to the event.. . because he is innocent until proven guilty.

If a person like this woman's son has a history of psych problems and history of threatening to harm others, and himself, then exceptions and restrictions should be made on THEM instead of taking guns away from those that wish to protect themselves from these people and criminals.

Perhaps these families who have a member with these sort of mental problems and history will have to be the ones who are made to refrain from having the firearms, or be made to severely secure them in a locked safe. Put the gun restrictions where the problem is instead of forcing everyone to pay for the deeds and problems of the few.

It isn't the guns or the magazines or the bullets, the problem is with the mental health and the medications side effects on the mentally unstable and sick.

 

[saveliberty]

The Bill of Rights doesn't give anyone the right to kill an innocnet person. If it is reasonable to think a person is not capable of stopping themselves from killing, then their rights can be terminated.

Perhaps I didn't make myself clear enough.

The bill of rights and our laws provide significant protections for the accused. It is normal for these people (like Adam) to never of had a significant issue/run in/threat prior to the event. He might of been crazy, but crazy and a clear danger is a hurdle that is VERY hard to prove and cross. Therefore, it is unlikely to commit people like Adam prior to the event.. . because he is innocent until proven guilty.

You were clear, just incorrect.

 

[Jos]

Can Antidepressants Cause Violence? - YouTube

Most of the time these people are prescribed antideppresensants...they DONT take them.
So to blame the medication for the uprise of violence among the mentally ill, is not founded.
How can the medication be to blame if it's not taken as prescribed?

At school we used to try on someones glasses to see how bad they saw things without glasses, take those medications for a week, and then stop, you will have a good idea of what those drugs do after that

 

[Zoom-boing]

I"ve been trying to find some info on all of this. Specifically, it's been reported from Adam's classmates and neighbors who knew him and his mother that he had mental issues ... I"m still not sure what those 'issues' were. Autism? Asperger's? Something else? Autism and Asperger's are mental disorders not diseases yet I see them referred to as a mental disease all the time.

I found this:

Sandy Hook School Officials Go On Record That Adam Lanza Was Once A Student,” reported WFMY on Dec. 18, 2012. “Janet Robinson, superintendent of Newtown Public Schools, said Adam Lanza attended Sandy Hook elementary, although she could not remember the year.”

Learning disabilities, emotional disabilities, social disabilities and academic abilities are usually diagnosed during the elementary school years. Adam Lanza was in the public school system and there should be records available about an academic, social, or emotional diagnosis.

It does not really matter with what Adam Lanza was diagnosed but what happened to the diagnosis that would make a difference in order to prevent future massacres.

When Adam Lanza moved on to middle school and then to high school, his cumulative folder (a student’s records) should have followed him. And so should have information about any special accommodations to which he would have had a legal right under IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Act). If Adam Lanza was a gifted student, it would also have been noted in his cumulative folder and he would have also had the right for “special accommodations” throughout his school career.

One of the acquaintances of Adam Lanza’s mother Nancy Lanza said that Nancy Lanza was trying to do the best that she could as a single mother. What about the public school system that was supposed to help Nancy Lanza “to raise” Adam Lanza.

By the time Nancy Lanza pulled Adam Lanza out of the public school system and homeschooled Adam, it would have already been too late.

Everyone who has spoken publicly about the horrific Sandy Hook Elementary School shooting has made it clear that grief knows no boundaries and that there is no intent of raising questions to blame anyone but to look for answers.

Those answers are needed because it might prevent future massacres and it might save the lives of other children or adults.

The fact that Adam Lanza went back to Sandy Hook Elementary School, a place that he had once been a part of, makes it necessary to raise the question about his elementary school records, his IEP, his school accommodations, and what happened to those during middle school and high school.

It has been too silent by officials about that part of Adam Lanza’s life. There are available answers about Adam Lanza that appear to be hidden from the public. Bringing those available answers to light and into the public eye might prevent future massacres and the unnecessary loss of innocent lives.

Adam Lanza, Nancy Lanza: Questions and answers - San Diego Top News | Examiner.com

I wondered about this. This kid had problems that likely did not just manifest themselves overnight or when he hit puberty, especially if these problems were in the social/emotional areas. He was also noted as being 'gifted' and 'genius' with computers. Kids with problems or gifted kids get IEPs every year, which sets the wheels in motion for them getting the services/assistant/help/therapies they may need, and they follow the kid from grade to grade and school to school. Where are Adam Lanza's IEPs? Did he even have any? Did his parents ignore his problems and refuse to have them done? I know his mother pulled him out of the school system to homeschool but that wasn't until he was in h.s. What about all the previous years?

I also found this:

One can imagine there isn’t a Special Education Director who isn’t wondering if they could do more to identify students with mental health disorders. In fact, there are some who know they can do more – *and the law requires them to do it. However, the administrative apparatus of the public school system is managed in a way that restricts access to the supports and services needed by children with mental illness or disabilities.

Too often, pressure from school Superintendents require Special Education Directors to reduce their budgets, thus leaving Directors no choice but to purposely deny eligibility, interventions, appropriate services and/or supports to children who need them. In essence, school districts claim these children are fine or they’re “cured” because they really don’t need interventions or services despite clear warning signs that something’s very wrong.

Adam Lanza was no exception. Educational professionals report they saw Adam Lanza’s problems as early as 9th grade. At Newtown High School, he was often having episodes and the protocol used by the school was to call his mother, Nancy Lanza, and have her come in to diffuse each crisis.

They saw his problems as early as 9th grade? This is off, I don't buy this. If he was on the autistic spectrum his problems would have shown waaaaay before then. The protocol was to call his mother to come and calm him down when he had an episode? That was their solution? What did his 'episodes' consist of?

The Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) includes a legal mandate requiring school districts, under the “Child Find” provision, to seek out and find children who exhibit significant problems at school, to include developmental and functional problems; not just academic problems. Most parents aren’t aware of this and the media and politicians won’t tell you about it, but all school districts know.

Under IDEA, anyone concerned about an individual can refer the student, confidentially, to the school district for assessment.

Usually, it is a teacher who refers a student for assessment. Unfortunately, due to the nationwide “budget constraint” mantra from the educational system, we are told that teachers are discouraged by their districts in the referral of students with suspected disorders and that “it’s a big waste of time as districts take no forward motion” according to one teacher who has asked to remain anonymous.

Did Lanza’s school district follow the Child Find law? Did they refer him for a psycho-educational assessment and provide the interventions and services needed? As we now know, they did not.

This is where school districts misinterpret the law. Clearly, IDEA legislation requires that students who demonstrate issues of functional, social, and/or emotional development are to be assessed and the needed interventions, supports and services must be provided.
If Adam Lanza’s school district had followed the law, they would have requested Nancy Lanza’s consent to conduct a psycho-educational assessment in all areas of suspected disability, which includes mental health, in order to get to the bottom of his mental illness, thus enabling them to determine the interventions and services he needed (to include institutionalization if necessary). In addition, he would have been closely monitored via an Individualized Education Plan (IEP).

Adam Lanza’s problems were no secret; his brother told reporters that Adam suffered from a “personality disorder” (the clinical term is usually “sociopath” or “psychopath&#8221. Adam Lanza’s mental illness was evident and Nancy Lanza’s problems with the school district have been reported.

Was Mrs. Lanza even aware of all of this? Did she request help for Adam but didn't get it or get too little? Did they recommend a different facility for him other than public school and she rejected it and that's why she pulled him out of school?

There is just so much we don't know.

Being the parent of a special needs kid is difficult and it can be damn near paralyzing for some. It's very easy for those who have never raised a kid like this to sit and judge or throw out well-meaning but impossible advice. Everyone thinks they have the answer ... if only the Lanza's had done this or done that; meds aren't the answer, meds are the answer; he was insane lock him away, keep him at home and get the help he needs. You know, it's hard to get help when you don't know where to turn and don't know what you don't know. It's hard to ask the right questions (because no one will offer you information if you don't ask first) when you don't know what questions to ask.

From what I've read it sounds like Mrs. Lanza was pretty much on her own with Adam. He was her responsibility 24/7/365. Was she a bit off herself -- she taught her mentally unstable kid to shoot for God's sake. wtf? There are some who post as if they know the deal, that she berated him until he snapped. You may be right but you may very well be wrong. We simply do not know yet, hopefully the information will be brought to light. But one thing that is certain? From the article:

Often, when a parent is struggling at home with a child who has a mental illness or disability, they are completely overwhelmed and very few can understand this unless they walk in the parent’s shoes.

I can not begin to tell you how true this is. You can 'know for sure' what you'd do if it was your kid ... at least that's what you think. You do not know anything if you have never walked in these shoes. You just don't.

 

[wavingrl]

I"ve been trying to find some info on all of this. Specifically, it's been reported from Adam's classmates and neighbors who knew him and his mother that he had mental issues ... I"m still not sure what those 'issues' were. Autism? Asperger's? Something else? Autism and Asperger's are mental disorders not diseases yet I see them referred to as a mental disease all the time.

Often, when a parent is struggling at home with a child who has a mental illness or disability, they are completely overwhelmed and very few can understand this unless they walk in the parent’s shoes.

I can not begin to tell you how true this is. You can 'know for sure' what you'd do if it was your kid ... at least that's what you think. You do not know anything if you have never walked in these shoes. You just don't.

Excellent post. I have reached the same conclusions--'there is much that we do not know, may never know and even if we did --are powerless to change'.

I think the general consensus is now that it was 'not just Asperger's' and what other problems may have been involved--unknown at this point. They are analyzing DNA to try to determine if there were genetic factors.

Certainly, much more needs to be done with mental health and so many other things.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I"ve been trying to find some info on all of this. Specifically, it's been reported from Adam's classmates and neighbors who knew him and his mother that he had mental issues ... I"m still not sure what those 'issues' were. Autism? Asperger's? Something else? Autism and Asperger's are mental disorders not diseases yet I see them referred to as a mental disease all the time.

Often, when a parent is struggling at home with a child who has a mental illness or disability, they are completely overwhelmed and very few can understand this unless they walk in the parent’s shoes.

I can not begin to tell you how true this is. You can 'know for sure' what you'd do if it was your kid ... at least that's what you think. You do not know anything if you have never walked in these shoes. You just don't.

Excellent post. I have reached the same conclusions--'there is much that we do not know, may never know and even if we did --are powerless to change'.

I think the general consensus is now that it was 'not just Asperger's' and what other problems may have been involved--unknown at this point. They are analyzing DNA to try to determine if there were genetic factors.

Certainly, much more needs to be done with mental health and so many other things.

Unless his parents refused them I find it impossible to believe that this kid didn't have IEPs when he was in school. The information in them would certainly give insight into him, give us clues as to what his problems were. Perhaps give things to look for in other individuals with similar problems.

While we will likely never know exactly what happened, what made him snap ... my last comments, above, are more of a general comment to anyone who has never raised a special needs kid. You may think 'if he were my kid I know exactly what I'd do or what I wouldn't do', etc. Well, no you don't. You can't. You may think you know but having never walked in those shoes I can assure you, you just don't know what you don't know.

 

[saveliberty]

I know that before I bought guns to protect myself from a family member there would be a lot of calls for help to mental health professionasls and law enforcement. I also know those guns would be the last thing this person had any access to.

 

[Zoom-boing]

I know that before I bought guns to protect myself from a family member there would be a lot of calls for help to mental health professionasls and law enforcement. I also know those guns would be the last thing this person had any access to.

I can not wrap my head around the mother teaching him to shoot.

 

[wavingrl]

I"ve been trying to find some info on all of this. Specifically, it's been reported from Adam's classmates and neighbors who knew him and his mother that he had mental issues ... I"m still not sure what those 'issues' were. Autism? Asperger's? Something else? Autism and Asperger's are mental disorders not diseases yet I see them referred to as a mental disease all the time.




I can not begin to tell you how true this is. You can 'know for sure' what you'd do if it was your kid ... at least that's what you think. You do not know anything if you have never walked in these shoes. You just don't.

Excellent post. I have reached the same conclusions--'there is much that we do not know, may never know and even if we did --are powerless to change'.

I think the general consensus is now that it was 'not just Asperger's' and what other problems may have been involved--unknown at this point. They are analyzing DNA to try to determine if there were genetic factors.

Certainly, much more needs to be done with mental health and so many other things.

Unless his parents refused them I find it impossible to believe that this kid didn't have IEPs when he was in school. The information in them would certainly give insight into him, give us clues as to what his problems were. Perhaps give things to look for in other individuals with similar problems.

While we will likely never know exactly what happened, what made him snap ... my last comments, above, are more of a general comment to anyone who has never raised a special needs kid. You may think 'if he were my kid I know exactly what I'd do or what I wouldn't do', etc. Well, no you don't. You can't. You may think you know but having never walked in those shoes I can assure you, you just don't know what you don't know.

agreed. Families face many challenges for which there are only 'difficult choices'. In my family it was substance abuse and, imo, dysfunction related to rigid thinking. Drugs can certainly destroy minds. fwiw.

here is another article--again, I can only conclude he had some combination of issues that were difficult to diagnose. How he was able to meet academic requirements--that is worth some research, I would think.

'there but for the Grace of God, go I'--just about all I know to say.

A week after school massacre, new details emerge | www.ajc.com

 

[Noomi]

I know that before I bought guns to protect myself from a family member there would be a lot of calls for help to mental health professionasls and law enforcement. I also know those guns would be the last thing this person had any access to.

I can not wrap my head around the mother teaching him to shoot.

His mother was apparently a gun freak and one of those weird survivalists.

 

[eots]

I"ve been trying to find some info on all of this. Specifically, it's been reported from Adam's classmates and neighbors who knew him and his mother that he had mental issues ... I"m still not sure what those 'issues' were. Autism? Asperger's? Something else? Autism and Asperger's are mental disorders not diseases yet I see them referred to as a mental disease all the time.




I can not begin to tell you how true this is. You can 'know for sure' what you'd do if it was your kid ... at least that's what you think. You do not know anything if you have never walked in these shoes. You just don't.

Excellent post. I have reached the same conclusions--'there is much that we do not know, may never know and even if we did --are powerless to change'.

I think the general consensus is now that it was 'not just Asperger's' and what other problems may have been involved--unknown at this point. They are analyzing DNA to try to determine if there were genetic factors.

Certainly, much more needs to be done with mental health and so many other things.

Unless his parents refused them I find it impossible to believe that this kid didn't have IEPs when he was in school. The information in them would certainly give insight into him, give us clues as to what his problems were. Perhaps give things to look for in other individuals with similar problems.

While we will likely never know exactly what happened, what made him snap ... my last comments, above, are more of a general comment to anyone who has never raised a special needs kid. You may think 'if he were my kid I know exactly what I'd do or what I wouldn't do', etc. Well, no you don't. You can't. You may think you know but having never walked in those shoes I can assure you, you just don't know what you don't know.

there are countless kids with way more red flags than this kid going on that never harm anyone ..he had no history violence

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I know that before I bought guns to protect myself from a family member there would be a lot of calls for help to mental health professionasls and law enforcement. I also know those guns would be the last thing this person had any access to.

I can not wrap my head around the mother teaching him to shoot.

His mother was apparently a gun freak and one of those weird survivalists.

Gun freak? How does one rifle, one shotgun, and two pistols add up to a gun freak? What makes a person that wants to live weird?

 

[wavingrl]

I know that before I bought guns to protect myself from a family member there would be a lot of calls for help to mental health professionasls and law enforcement. I also know those guns would be the last thing this person had any access to.

I can not wrap my head around the mother teaching him to shoot.

His mother was apparently a gun freak and one of those weird survivalists.

I don't know.

Somewhere--maybe in the last article I linked--it said she shared the 'Live Free or Die' philosophy of New Hampshire. What that means, I cannot say--how extreme, I suppose.

Until someone can thoroughly research this family I can't draw many conclusions.

'Some kind of serious problem'.

Those that I know that own guns are ethical and responsible people.

That's about as far as I can go with any of this.

New Englanders, some at least, are often described as self-sufficient?/survivalists, I don't know. Henry David Thoreau is one example. Maybe she shared such beliefs. Some would say that is quintessentially American/Yankee?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_David_Thoreau

'I should not obtrude my affairs so much on the notice of my readers if very particular inquiries had not been made by my townsmen concerning my mode of life, which some would call impertinent, though they do not appear to me at all impertinent, but, considering the circumstances, very natural and pertinent. Some have asked what I got to eat; if I did not feel lonesome; if I was not afraid; and the like. Others have been curious to learn what portion of my income I devoted to charitable purposes; and some, who have large families, how many poor children I maintained. [...] Unfortunately, I am confined to this theme by the narrowness of my experience. Moreover, I, on my side, require of every writer, first or last, a simple and sincere account of his own life, and not merely what he has heard of other men's lives; [...] I trust that none will stretch the seams in putting on the coat, for it may do good service to him whom it fits.'

 

[midcan5]

I am half way through Dave Cullen's 'Columbine,' read it. What you thought you knew will change and it may take years for the information from the recent murders to come forward. Humans tend to hide their mistakes.

"Late in 1997, Eric took notice of school shooters. "Every day news broadcasts stories of students shooting students, or going on killing sprees," he wrote. He researched the possibilities for an English paper. Guns were cheap and readily available. Gun Digest said you could get a Saturday night special for $69. And schools were easy targets. "It is just as easy to bring a loaded handgun to school as it is to bring a calculator," Eric wrote... "Ouch!" his teacher responded in the margin. Overall, he rated it "thorough & logical. Nice job."' Dave Cullen, 'Columbine' p199

 

[Zoom-boing]

Excellent post. I have reached the same conclusions--'there is much that we do not know, may never know and even if we did --are powerless to change'.

I think the general consensus is now that it was 'not just Asperger's' and what other problems may have been involved--unknown at this point. They are analyzing DNA to try to determine if there were genetic factors.

Certainly, much more needs to be done with mental health and so many other things.

Unless his parents refused them I find it impossible to believe that this kid didn't have IEPs when he was in school. The information in them would certainly give insight into him, give us clues as to what his problems were. Perhaps give things to look for in other individuals with similar problems.

While we will likely never know exactly what happened, what made him snap ... my last comments, above, are more of a general comment to anyone who has never raised a special needs kid. You may think 'if he were my kid I know exactly what I'd do or what I wouldn't do', etc. Well, no you don't. You can't. You may think you know but having never walked in those shoes I can assure you, you just don't know what you don't know.

there are countless kids with way more red flags than this kid going on that never harm anyone ..he had no history violence

I know, but he had a history of problems. Where are his IEPs? Especially in light of the fact that he didn't have a history of violence ... whatever his IEPs contain may be helpful in looking at others who display the same behaviors/problems Adam did ... to keep a closer eye on them. Then again, hindsight is always 20/20.

There is so much we don't and may never know about all of this.

 

[wavingrl]

Unless his parents refused them I find it impossible to believe that this kid didn't have IEPs when he was in school. The information in them would certainly give insight into him, give us clues as to what his problems were. Perhaps give things to look for in other individuals with similar problems.

While we will likely never know exactly what happened, what made him snap ... my last comments, above, are more of a general comment to anyone who has never raised a special needs kid. You may think 'if he were my kid I know exactly what I'd do or what I wouldn't do', etc. Well, no you don't. You can't. You may think you know but having never walked in those shoes I can assure you, you just don't know what you don't know.

there are countless kids with way more red flags than this kid going on that never harm anyone ..he had no history violence

I know, but he had a history of problems. Where are his IEPs? Especially in light of the fact that he didn't have a history of violence ... whatever his IEPs contain may be helpful in looking at others who display the same behaviors/problems Adam did ... to keep a closer eye on them. Then again, hindsight is always 20/20.

There is so much we don't and may never know about all of this.

I don't think IEP's will be found. I am only assuming--this is a well-educated community--it is possible that they worked with his mother in some alternative way. Academically he achieved.

I would be willing to wager that anyone connected to the school system will not discuss this matter.

 

[Noomi]

I can not wrap my head around the mother teaching him to shoot.

His mother was apparently a gun freak and one of those weird survivalists.

Gun freak? How does one rifle, one shotgun, and two pistols add up to a gun freak? What makes a person that wants to live weird?

She's been reported in the media as being a very pro gun person, teaching Adam how to shoot a a gun, and stocking up on food because she was one of those who believed the world would end three days ago.

She's a nutcase.