I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

[freedombecki]

If she was stopping him from accessing them, he wouldn't have been able to access them. Seems simple enough.

He got her out of the way by killing her. After that, he's free to do as he wishes with no restraint. People with his disorder do not have emotional ties to other people. There's a disconnected plug in the brainworks.

After rereading my post, it didn't sound like what I meant; and I was editing while you were answering. Sorry. The edit version is:

He could have gotten her out of the way by killing her. After that, he's free to do as he wishes with no restraint. People with his disorder do not have emotional ties to other people. There's a disconnected plug in the brainworks. Sociopathic people may have brain chemicals that function improperly. They may have been born with the defect, or they may be vicims of something called "shaken baby syndrome," where a parent threw a kid up in the air, caught him, brain matter is jolted loose from its fittings. Or shaken the kid when correcting him. Or the kid could have fallen on his head, shaken something loose all by his clumsy little self. Climbed up a ladder and fell off a roof? Accident jolted in a car hit by someone? Lots of reasons people get clobbered in their head hard while growing up. Cord wrapped around neck too tightly can cause brain cells whithering--too many possibilities to mention, and no one may ever know what happened to make someone have actions and thoughts going in different directions.

Brain disconnects happen. Sociopaths are definitely people with disconnected neurons somewhere in the path between thinking and acting out.

The point is she was killed with the guns he supposedly didn't have access to, so I think that would mean they were accessible.

You're speculating and so am I. Let's wait for the details to come out, shall we?

 

[bobcollum]

He got her out of the way by killing her. After that, he's free to do as he wishes with no restraint. People with his disorder do not have emotional ties to other people. There's a disconnected plug in the brainworks.

The point is she was killed with the guns he supposedly didn't have access to, so I think that would mean they were accessible.

You're speculating and so am I. Let's wait for the details to come out, shall we?

I thought that was a known fact, maybe it isn't.

 

[AmyNation]

The point is she was killed with the guns he supposedly didn't have access to, so I think that would mean they were accessible.

You're speculating and so am I. Let's wait for the details to come out, shall we?

I thought that was a known fact, maybe it isn't.

Everything I've read says he shot his mother, then went to the school, shot the entrance up to gain access and then made it through 2 classrooms before killing himself.

 

[AmyNation]

"Lanza, 20, killed his mother at the home they shared, shooting her in the face with her own gun, before driving three miles to the school in Newtown, Connecticut."


Connecticut school massacre: Gunman's mother taught him to shoot - Telegraph

"What we know is he shot his way into the building. He was not buzzed in," Malloy said. "He penetrated the building by literally shooting an entrance into the building. That's what an assault weapon can do for you."
Connecticut school shooting: Latest developments - CNN.com

 

[mudwhistle]

metal illness is an illness and should be treated.


you need to have it available to EVERYONE.

BTW the body is attached to the head and does effect mental health.

You have to have comprensive full medical care for everyone even non citizens.

Write a check then.

 

[Jos]

"Lanza, 20, killed his mother at the home they shared, shooting her in the face with her own gun, before driving three miles to the school in Newtown, Connecticut."


Connecticut school massacre: Gunman's mother taught him to shoot - Telegraph

"What we know is he shot his way into the building. He was not buzzed in," Malloy said. "He penetrated the building by literally shooting an entrance into the building. That's what an assault weapon can do for you."
Connecticut school shooting: Latest developments - CNN.com

reports state the rifle was found in the car

 

[Annie]

I did, why?

The post seemed to be about how we are NOT dealing with mental health in the US. There are disturbed people that should be institutionalized before they end up suicides or suicide by cops. Of course some will simply commit assaults, not murders and end up repeatedly jailed.

When these issues become apparent in the adolescent years and treatment, meds aren't doing the job, more drastic measures are needed. Much less drastic though than prison however, with fewer other losses that seem to repeatedly happening without the alternative care.

 

[AmyNation]

"Lanza, 20, killed his mother at the home they shared, shooting her in the face with her own gun, before driving three miles to the school in Newtown, Connecticut."


Connecticut school massacre: Gunman's mother taught him to shoot - Telegraph

"What we know is he shot his way into the building. He was not buzzed in," Malloy said. "He penetrated the building by literally shooting an entrance into the building. That's what an assault weapon can do for you."
Connecticut school shooting: Latest developments - CNN.com

reports state the rifle was found in the car

According to CNN

"Adam Lanza was found dead next to three guns -- a semiautomatic .223-caliber rifle made by Bushmaster and two handguns made by Glock and Sig Sauer, a law enforcement source told CNN. All belonged to his mother.

Carver, who performed autopsies on seven of the victims, said the wounds he knew about were caused by a "long weapon" and that the rifle was the primary weapon used."

 

[Jos]

[ame=http://youtu.be/OyPuE314SDQ]Can Antidepressants Cause Violence? - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Annie]

I did, why?

The post seemed to be about how we are NOT dealing with mental health in the US. There are disturbed people that should be institutionalized before they end up suicides or suicide by cops. Of course some will simply commit assaults, not murders and end up repeatedly jailed.

When these issues become apparent in the adolescent years and treatment, meds aren't doing the job, more drastic measures are needed. Much less drastic though than prison however, with fewer other losses that seem to repeatedly happening without the alternative care.

Instead it's turned into like the 20th gun control thread.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

'I Am Adam Lanza's Mother': A Mom's Perspective On The Mental Illness Conversation In America

Friday’s horrific national tragedy -- the murder of 20 children and six adults at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Connecticut -- has ignited a new discussion on violence in America. In kitchens and coffee shops across the country, we tearfully debate the many faces of violence in America: gun culture, media violence, lack of mental health services, overt and covert wars abroad, religion, politics and the way we raise our children. Liza Long, a writer based in Boise, says it’s easy to talk about guns. But it’s time to talk about mental illness.

I live with a son who is mentally ill. I love my son. But he terrifies me.

The way we treat our mentally ill, we may as well still be back in the Dark Ages.

In the dark ages they burned them at the stake. Besides, it is mostly the gun control wackos that want to lock up mentally ill people because it is good for them, the rest of us believe that even crazy people deserve dignity and self respect.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

metal illness is an illness and should be treated.


you need to have it available to EVERYONE.

BTW the body is attached to the head and does effect mental health.

You have to have comprensive full medical care for everyone even non citizens.

A lot of things that we call mental illness are actually personality disorders. If we could cure them we could cure homosexuality.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

If this shooting teaches us anything, I hope it to finally opens our eyes to how poorly we treat mental illness.

If you're an adult, there is almost no help out there for you. I know mothers who have given up their rights to their teenagers, in hopes of getting their children help from the state, and I know adults who have reached out for help and been brushed off.

The sad part is that there is actually plenty of help, it is just so mired in red tape only the most desperate can get to it.

 

[Annie]

metal illness is an illness and should be treated.


you need to have it available to EVERYONE.

BTW the body is attached to the head and does effect mental health.

You have to have comprensive full medical care for everyone even non citizens.

A lot of things that we call mental illness are actually personality disorders. If we could cure them we could cure homosexuality.

For the non-violent, I guess one can say, "They want to live that way, not taking their meds, unable to hold a job, have friends, perhaps become homeless." For those that become violent when upset? No, they do not belong amongst the unsuspecting. They should be forced by courts to be in residential centers for the purpose of giving them the care they need, meds to hopefully turn their lives around, and much more freedom than prison, which tends to be the choice of housing for so many today.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The mentally ill should be removed and placed somewhere where they cannot harm others. This mother wants someone to step in and fix her son. He can't be fixed. He can't be understood or accommodated. He has to be removed and kept somewhere safe.

Actually it sounds like there isn't anywhere safe for her to send him. He's a danger to himself, his brothers, and himself. Not to mention the others at school. She had the sense to move him from 'gifted' classes to self-contained behavior disordered classes, though little teaching goes on in those classes, thus she referred to babysitting.

Institutions that existed prior to the 1960's certainly left much to be desired, rather than improving, they were closed. When that meant mentally ill children, particularly violent children, the problem was dumped on the home. At 18 or even earlier, many stopped taking their meds, eventually leaving home and many our now the homeless.

Sending a 13 year old, mentally ill boy to a juvenile detention complex doesn't seem the right choice for most. If though he managed to carry through with his threats in 2 or 3 years, he'll be treated as an 'adult.' That is certainly wrong.

If the problem had been dumped on the home we might actually have a solution by now, instead it was dumped on the schools when the feds declared that everyone had a right to get the exact same education. This dumped all those kids into the public school system, and put teachers that were trained to deal with normal children in charge of kids who are not normal. They cannot do this, and it is expensive to hire qualified teachers that are also qualified in psychiatric care, so schools resort to medicating children that cause problems.

And, no, i do not believe that medication causes violence. I do, however, believe that medication is not always the best solution, which is why these children should not be shoved into schools that are not equipped to handle them.

The best thing to do is stop treating everyone the same and give parents options for treatment that work for their children. We also have to be harsh and recognize that it is not the responsibility of society to make sure everyone is healthy and sane. While laudable, it is impossible to pretend people like this do not exist and assume that more federal government oversight is the answer. Everyone needs to be treated on an individual basis, and anyone that cares about mentally ill should care about making sure the government does not set out a one size fits all policy that shoves everyone into the same box based on a label.

 

[freedombecki]

metal illness is an illness and should be treated.

you need to have it available to EVERYONE.

BTW the body is attached to the head and does effect mental health.

You have to have comprensive full medical care for everyone even non citizens.

Honey, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink it.

 

[Annie]

The mentally ill should be removed and placed somewhere where they cannot harm others. This mother wants someone to step in and fix her son. He can't be fixed. He can't be understood or accommodated. He has to be removed and kept somewhere safe.

Actually it sounds like there isn't anywhere safe for her to send him. He's a danger to himself, his brothers, and himself. Not to mention the others at school. She had the sense to move him from 'gifted' classes to self-contained behavior disordered classes, though little teaching goes on in those classes, thus she referred to babysitting.

Institutions that existed prior to the 1960's certainly left much to be desired, rather than improving, they were closed. When that meant mentally ill children, particularly violent children, the problem was dumped on the home. At 18 or even earlier, many stopped taking their meds, eventually leaving home and many our now the homeless.

Sending a 13 year old, mentally ill boy to a juvenile detention complex doesn't seem the right choice for most. If though he managed to carry through with his threats in 2 or 3 years, he'll be treated as an 'adult.' That is certainly wrong.

If the problem had been dumped on the home we might actually have a solution by now, instead it was dumped on the schools when the feds declared that everyone had a right to get the exact same education. This dumped all those kids into the public school system, and put teachers that were trained to deal with normal children in charge of kids who are not normal. They cannot do this, and it is expensive to hire qualified teachers that are also qualified in psychiatric care, so schools resort to medicating children that cause problems.

And, no, i do not believe that medication causes violence. I do, however, believe that medication is not always the best solution, which is why these children should not be shoved into schools that are not equipped to handle them.

The best thing to do is stop treating everyone the same and give parents options for treatment that work for their children. We also have to be harsh and recognize that it is not the responsibility of society to make sure everyone is healthy and sane. While laudable, it is impossible to pretend people like this do not exist and assume that more federal government oversight is the answer. Everyone needs to be treated on an individual basis, and anyone that cares about mentally ill should care about making sure the government does not set out a one size fits all policy that shoves everyone into the same box based on a label.

That has some merit for some issues. Not like that of this kid from OP or the one that shot up the school on Friday. She shooter's mom pulled him out of school and homeschooled-in high school. The kid was from accounts, easily found by honor roll publications, yet some 'school plan,' the mother disagreed with enough to stay home with a 17 year old. That sure sounds like there was a severe behavior issue, leading to IEP, something the school was going to insist upon probably via court, caused her to pull him out. He graduated, but I'll be that was via the homeschooling and individual testing. So far, we know nothing of his being on meds or any psychiatric care he may or may not have received.

The boy in the article? On meds, with psychiatrists, been hospitalized it sounds repeatedly, police have been involved, has own social worker. School recommended pulling him from gifted program to self-contained BD, mother agreed. He's getting treatment and it's been ongoing, he's still pulling knives, punching, threatening murder and suicide, when he's upset. Can't guess what will upset him. He's brilliant, mostly under control, but when not under control? He could kill.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

The mentally ill should be removed and placed somewhere where they cannot harm others. This mother wants someone to step in and fix her son. He can't be fixed. He can't be understood or accommodated. He has to be removed and kept somewhere safe.

Actually it sounds like there isn't anywhere safe for her to send him. He's a danger to himself, his brothers, and himself. Not to mention the others at school. She had the sense to move him from 'gifted' classes to self-contained behavior disordered classes, though little teaching goes on in those classes, thus she referred to babysitting.

Institutions that existed prior to the 1960's certainly left much to be desired, rather than improving, they were closed. When that meant mentally ill children, particularly violent children, the problem was dumped on the home. At 18 or even earlier, many stopped taking their meds, eventually leaving home and many our now the homeless.

Sending a 13 year old, mentally ill boy to a juvenile detention complex doesn't seem the right choice for most. If though he managed to carry through with his threats in 2 or 3 years, he'll be treated as an 'adult.' That is certainly wrong.

There were places that the insane went. I'm sorry that no one can see a causal relationship to closing insane asylums and a rise in attacks by the insane. As well as a rise related to treating mental illness as if it was a broken leg. Instead of helping, all the efforts to "treat" the insane as if they were normal have made things worse. Putting them in regular classes to mainstream them made things worse. Punishing those who indentify the insane has made things worse. Look at this mother. She wants help to maintain her son as if he wasn't insane. What he needs to be is removed to someplace where the cannot hurt anyone. He can't be treated, or medicated unless he's sedated into being comatose. No matter what is done, it's not enough accommodation, not enough understanding, enough of something.

More than that, we provide excuses for the insane to be even more insane than they are. Everything is an excuse. Everything is reasoned away into being someone else's fault. Can't keep guns away from the crazies? Take them away from everyone. It's insane as it is. The same kind of sick society that has courts allowing serial child molesters to live close to where children are apt to congregate is the same kind of sick society that refuses to protect the normal from the criminally insane.

Insane asylums were not built for people like Adam Lanzer, they were built for people who are mostly harmless and no danger to anyone, it was just easier to stuff them in a hole and pretend they don't exist than see them everyday.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Really, she went wrong when she allowed her son, who had obvious mental issues, easy access to said guns.

and trained him at the gun range how to shoot

Quite so. She refused to accept his insanity. No doubt when he was a child she went to fight for him if the school tried to remove him from association with normal children. No one is gonna call MY kid different! Lanza's mother was going to teach him how to shoot, make sure he was on the basketball team and kept a close eye on whether or not he was excluded from anything.

Lanza's father and brother both had stopped having anything to do with Adam once he got too bad off. It would be interesting to know whether Mother's devotion to her insane son was a reason for the divorce a few years ago. There is a special crime of those who hang on too long pretending that nothing is wrong.

Maybe she just was grateful to have a normal kid after dealing with his older brother.

 

[saveliberty]

Violent people need to be removed from society, mental illness is not a fitting excuse to allow someone to stay in society.