I just want to thank liberals this Independence Day

[BULLDOG]

You are a nasty old bat, aren't you?

No....simply meeting the left on their own terms.....for too long conservatives have tried to be polite, to disagree without being disagreeable and all we have had for our efforts are lies and smears of the most vile kind used against us........you wanted this level of debate....now you are going to get it..........

Bullshit.

people fired for not towing the leftist line
small biz sued for refusing service (their right)
companies harassed into not selling product
Americans forced to buy products or else

it's not bullshit, you would have supported the Crown just as you do now

People fired for not meeting the standards their employer required
Small biz sued for refusing service when the law requires a business too provide it equally to all
Companies realizing that they need to satisfy their customers.
Adoption of healthcare that came directly from a right wing think tank.

I would think a person who loved the free market would be thrilled.

 

[Pogo]

And we'd like to thank you for not only not knowing the difference between Liberalism and leftism, but also not knowing the difference between politics and social structures. It's entertaining, in a pathos kinda way. And it's instructive how you like to lay blame on whatever's convenient without thinking it through.

Of course a nation's politics and society are related, and liberals have clearly been working just as hard at our social structure as at our political system. Just trying to include all of your great achievements. I mean, we can hardly have the paternalistic state you're pushing for if we still think of ourselves as autonomous adults.

Hey, feel free to link these pieces of legislation --- Liberal or not -- that somehow produces:

• Personal safety

• A quality public education in a school not infested with gangs and meth

• Personal responsibility

• Adulthood

• Parenthood and a stable family structure

• Positive and mutually beneficial gender relations

• Bourgeois concepts like loyalty, sanctity, or patriotism

• A cohesive and functional society

Wake me when you come up with something.

Might wanna look up what "culture" means while you're at it.

 

[Pogo]

Cool and all but... how about a thank you for this country existing in the first place?

You're welcome. You're an authoritarian leftist, you had nothing to do with it. It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians

"Libertarianism" hadn't even been invented then. And they couldn't be until Liberalism opened the horizon, which like any new concept inevitably brings extremists to push the envelope. So no, you don't get to skip a step. Nice try.

 

[Two Thumbs]

You are a nasty old bat, aren't you?

No....simply meeting the left on their own terms.....for too long conservatives have tried to be polite, to disagree without being disagreeable and all we have had for our efforts are lies and smears of the most vile kind used against us........you wanted this level of debate....now you are going to get it..........

Bullshit.

people fired for not towing the leftist line
small biz sued for refusing service (their right)
companies harassed into not selling product
Americans forced to buy products or else

it's not bullshit, you would have supported the Crown just as you do now

They prove time and again they don't really understand themselves,and yet willing to tell the cons what they are.makes a mess of their credibility.

If they could think for themselves they would stop being dems

 

[Two Thumbs]

You are a nasty old bat, aren't you?

No....simply meeting the left on their own terms.....for too long conservatives have tried to be polite, to disagree without being disagreeable and all we have had for our efforts are lies and smears of the most vile kind used against us........you wanted this level of debate....now you are going to get it..........

Bullshit.

people fired for not towing the leftist line
small biz sued for refusing service (their right)
companies harassed into not selling product
Americans forced to buy products or else

it's not bullshit, you would have supported the Crown just as you do now

People fired for not meeting the standards their employer required
Small biz sued for refusing service when the law requires a business too provide it equally to all
Companies realizing that they need to satisfy their customers.
Adoption of healthcare that came directly from a right wing think tank.

I would think a person who loved the free market would be thrilled.

you can't tell the difference between freedom and tyranny

mostly b/c you can't think freely

 

[BULLDOG]

You are a nasty old bat, aren't you?

No....simply meeting the left on their own terms.....for too long conservatives have tried to be polite, to disagree without being disagreeable and all we have had for our efforts are lies and smears of the most vile kind used against us........you wanted this level of debate....now you are going to get it..........

Bullshit.

people fired for not towing the leftist line
small biz sued for refusing service (their right)
companies harassed into not selling product
Americans forced to buy products or else

it's not bullshit, you would have supported the Crown just as you do now

People fired for not meeting the standards their employer required
Small biz sued for refusing service when the law requires a business too provide it equally to all
Companies realizing that they need to satisfy their customers.
Adoption of healthcare that came directly from a right wing think tank.

I would think a person who loved the free market would be thrilled.

you can't tell the difference between freedom and tyranny

mostly b/c you can't think freely

What ever you say silly boy.

 

[rightwinger]

 

[kaz]

Cool and all but... how about a thank you for this country existing in the first place?

You're welcome. You're an authoritarian leftist, you had nothing to do with it. It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians

Lol it's funny that you think fighting for rights is authoritarian

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders their progressive ideas were Godless and anti-American

Lol, it's funny that you think fighting for government power is liberal

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders who wanted to limit government that your desire for ever larger government was what they were fighting for

 

[kaz]

Cool and all but... how about a thank you for this country existing in the first place?

You're welcome. You're an authoritarian leftist, you had nothing to do with it. It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians

"Libertarianism" hadn't even been invented then. And they couldn't be until Liberalism opened the horizon, which like any new concept inevitably brings extremists to push the envelope. So no, you don't get to skip a step. Nice try.

A rose by any other name. And I addressed that point, I said "today" we are referred to as libertarians, I didn't say that was the term for it then.

 

[Pogo]

Cool and all but... how about a thank you for this country existing in the first place?

You're welcome. You're an authoritarian leftist, you had nothing to do with it. It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians

"Libertarianism" hadn't even been invented then. And they couldn't be until Liberalism opened the horizon, which like any new concept inevitably brings extremists to push the envelope. So no, you don't get to skip a step. Nice try.

A rose by any other name. And I addressed that point, I said "today" we are referred to as libertarians, I didn't say that was the term for it then.

Uh -- yeah you did exactly that. And I quote, "It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians". Which is bullshit.

 

[kaz]

Cool and all but... how about a thank you for this country existing in the first place?

You're welcome. You're an authoritarian leftist, you had nothing to do with it. It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians

"Libertarianism" hadn't even been invented then. And they couldn't be until Liberalism opened the horizon, which like any new concept inevitably brings extremists to push the envelope. So no, you don't get to skip a step. Nice try.

A rose by any other name. And I addressed that point, I said "today" we are referred to as libertarians, I didn't say that was the term for it then.

Uh -- yeah you did exactly that. And I quote, "It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians". Which is bullshit.

Your typical contentless reply. No it isn't! That's all you've got? How are libertarians different from the founding fathers? We're pretty spot on. No coincidence that, it starts with the small government philosophy

 

[Flopper]

Thank you for all of your hard work fundamentally transforming American society to become independent from:

• A positive national budget
• Financial stability and a healthy economy
  
• National security
• Personal safety
  
• A quality public education in a school not infested with gangs and meth
• Voting, at least outside of large cities or in the military
• Personal responsibility
• Adulthood
  
• Parenthood and a stable family structure
• Positive and mutually beneficial gender relations
  
• Private property
  
• Bourgeois concepts like loyalty, sanctity, or patriotism
• The Constitution, government, rights, and responsibilities that the Framers left us with*
• A cohesive and functional society

*Your tireless work reforging it into a "living Constitution" which says whatever you need it to say at any given time, and can stop saying that and immediately support a radically different interpretation should the need arise, has been especially noteworthy. There's no way a tradcon centrist would have even thought of that. Thank you for your clever and unique contribution.

Then there's the accomplishments of Liberals that Conservatives Seek to Destroy.

1. The 40-hour work week.
2. Weekends
3. Vacations
4. Women’s Voting Rights
5. The Civil Rights Act of 1964
6. The right of people of all colors to use schools and facilities.
7. Public schools.
8. Child-labor laws.
9. The right to unionize
10. Health care benefits
11. National Parks
12. National Forests
13. Interstate Highway System
14. GI Bill
15. Labor Laws/Worker’s Rights
16. Marshall Plan
17. FDA
18. Direct election of Senators by the people.
19. Occupational Safety and Health Administration, Workplace safety laws
20. Social Security
21. NASA
22. The Office of Congressional Ethics. Created in 2008.
23. The Internet
24. National Weather Service
25. Product Labeling/Truth in Advertising Laws
26. Rural Electrification/Tennessee Valley Authority
27. Morrill Land Grant Act
28. Public Universities
29. Bank Deposit Insurance
30. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
31. Consumer Product Safety Commission
32. Public Broadcasting/Educational Television
33. Americans With Disabilities Act
34. Family and Medical Leave Act
35. Environmental Protection Agency
36. Clean Air Act
37. Clean Water Act
38. USDA
39. Public Libraries
40. Transcontinental Railroad and the rail system in general
41. Civilian Conservation Corps
42. Panama Canal
43. Hoover Dam
44. The Federal Reserve
45. Medicare
46. The United States Military
47. FBI
48. CIA
49. Local and state police departments
50. Fire Departments
51. Veterans Medical Care
52. Food Stamps
53. Federal Housing Administration
54. Extending Voting Rights to 18 year olds
55. Freedom of Speech
56. Freedom of Religion/Separation of Church and State
57. Right to Due Process
58. Freedom of The Press
59. Right to Organize and Protest
60. Pell Grants and other financial aid to students
61. Federal Aviation Administration/Airline safety regulations
62. The 13th Amendment
63. The 14th Amendment
64. The 15th Amendment
65. Unemployment benefits
66. Women’s Health Services
67. Smithsonian Institute
68. Head Start
69. Americorps
70. Mine Safety And Health Administration (This has been weakened by conservatives, resulting in recent mining disasters.)
71. Food Labeling
72. WIC
73. Peace Corps
74. United Nations
75. World Health Organization
76. Nuclear Treaties
77. Lincoln Tunnel
78. Sulfur emissions cap and trade to eliminate acid rain
79. Earned Income Tax Credit
80. The banning of lead in consumer products
81. National Institute of Health
82. Garbage pickup/clean streets
83. Banning of CFCs.
84. Erie Canal
85. Medicaid
86. TARP
87. Bail Out of the American Auto Industry
88. Lily Ledbetter Fair Pay Act
89. Wildlife Protection
90. End of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell
91. Established the basis for Universal Human Rights by writing the Declaration of Independence
92. Miranda Rights
93. Banning of torture
94. The right to a proper defense in court
95. An independent judiciary
96. The right to vote
97. Fair, open, and honest elections
98. The right to bear arms (Do you really think extreme right wingers would allow anybody besides themselves to have firearms if in power?)
99. Health care for children and pregnant women
100. A stable and strong government established by a Constitution
101. The founding of The United States of America
102. The defeat of the Nazis and victory in World War II
103. Paramedics
104. The Brady Handgun Act
105. The Glass-Steagall Act (It has since been repealed and we’ve been paying the price for it.)
106. Oil industry regulations (The Gulf paid the price after conservatives tore many of these regulations down.)
107. The Affordable Care Act which makes insurance companies more honest and fair.
108. Woman’s Right to Choose
109. Title IX
110. Affirmative Action
111. A National Currency
112. National Science Foundation
113. Weights and measures standards
114. Vehicle Safety Standards
115. NATO
116. The income tax and power to tax in general, which have been used to pay for much of this list.
117. 911 Emergency system
118. Tsunami, hurricane, tornado, and earthquake warning systems
119. Public Transportation
120. The Freedom of Information Act
121. Emancipation Proclamation, which ended slavery
122. Antitrust legislation which prevents corporate monopolies (These laws have been savaged by conservatives, which is why corporations are getting huger and competition is disappearing leading to less jobs and high prices.)
123. Water Treatment Centers and sewage systems
124. The Meat Inspection Act
125. The Pure Food And Drug Act
126. The Bretton Woods system
127. International Monetary Fund
128. SEC, which regulates Wall Street. (Conservatives have weakened this regulatory body, resulting in the current recession.)
129. National Endowment for the Arts
130. Campaign finance laws (Conservatives have gutted these laws, leading to corporate takeovers of elections.)
131. Federal Crop Insurance
132. United States Housing Authority
133. Soil Conservation
134. School Lunch Act
135. Mental Retardation Facilities and Community Mental Health Centers Construction Act
136. Vaccination Assistance Act
137. Over the course of nearly 50 years, liberals contributed greatly to the eventual end of the Cold War.
138. The creation of counterinsurgency forces such as the Navy Seals and Green Berets.
139. Voting Rights Act, which ended poll taxes, literacy tests, and other voter qualification tests.
140. Civil Rights Act of 1968
141. Job Corps
142. Elementary and Secondary Education Act of 1965
143. Teacher Corps
144. National Endowment for the Humanities
145. Endangered Species Preservation Act of 1966
146. National Trails System Act of 1968
147. U.S. Postal Service
148. Title X
149. Kept the Union together through Civil War and rebuilt the South afterwards.
150. Modern Civilization

 

[BULLDOG]

Cool and all but... how about a thank you for this country existing in the first place?

You're welcome. You're an authoritarian leftist, you had nothing to do with it. It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians

Lol it's funny that you think fighting for rights is authoritarian

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders their progressive ideas were Godless and anti-American

Lol, it's funny that you think fighting for government power is liberal

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders who wanted to limit government that your desire for ever larger government was what they were fighting for

The founding fathers weren't anti-government. They were pro-fair government.

 

[kaz]

Cool and all but... how about a thank you for this country existing in the first place?

You're welcome. You're an authoritarian leftist, you had nothing to do with it. It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians

Lol it's funny that you think fighting for rights is authoritarian

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders their progressive ideas were Godless and anti-American

Lol, it's funny that you think fighting for government power is liberal

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders who wanted to limit government that your desire for ever larger government was what they were fighting for

The founding fathers weren't anti-government. They were pro-fair government.

Wow, not many people are willing to look that ignorant and uninformed. But you stepped up right to it with no hesitation.

You may want to read some quotes from them on government before sticking your foot that deep in your mouth again. Here are a few to whet your appetite:

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
—Thomas Jefferson

Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
—George Washington

"The means of defense against a foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
—James Madison

"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
—Benjamin Franklin

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect its country from its government."
—Thomas Paine

 

[BULLDOG]

Cool and all but... how about a thank you for this country existing in the first place?

You're welcome. You're an authoritarian leftist, you had nothing to do with it. It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians

Lol it's funny that you think fighting for rights is authoritarian

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders their progressive ideas were Godless and anti-American

Lol, it's funny that you think fighting for government power is liberal

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders who wanted to limit government that your desire for ever larger government was what they were fighting for

The founding fathers weren't anti-government. They were pro-fair government.

Wow, not many people are willing to look that ignorant and uninformed. But you stepped up right to it with no hesitation.

You may want to read some quotes from them on government before sticking your foot that deep in your mouth again. Here are a few to whet your appetite:

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
—Thomas Jefferson

Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
—George Washington

"The means of defense against a foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
—James Madison

"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
—Benjamin Franklin

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect its country from its government."
—Thomas Paine

And yet, they went to all the trouble to set up our government and run it. Imagine that.

 

[kaz]

You're welcome. You're an authoritarian leftist, you had nothing to do with it. It was classic liberals who did that, today referred to as libertarians

Lol it's funny that you think fighting for rights is authoritarian

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders their progressive ideas were Godless and anti-American

Lol, it's funny that you think fighting for government power is liberal

I wonder how you would have tried to convince the founders who wanted to limit government that your desire for ever larger government was what they were fighting for

The founding fathers weren't anti-government. They were pro-fair government.

Wow, not many people are willing to look that ignorant and uninformed. But you stepped up right to it with no hesitation.

You may want to read some quotes from them on government before sticking your foot that deep in your mouth again. Here are a few to whet your appetite:

"When the people fear the government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."
—Thomas Jefferson

Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action."
—George Washington

"The means of defense against a foreign danger historically have become the instruments of tyranny at home."
—James Madison

"It is the first responsibility of every citizen to question authority."
—Benjamin Franklin

"It is the duty of the patriot to protect its country from its government."
—Thomas Paine

And yet, they went to all the trouble to set up our government and run it. Imagine that.

You've really never read any history, have you? Maybe you'll read some when you get to high school

 

[regent]

The size of government is not part of any political ideology; what government does, however, can be. When government did for royalty and the noble class, government could be small in size, but then when we the people discovered government can be used for the benefit of the common-folk, as royalty used if for theirs, it began to rankle conservatives.
It is not the size of government but what government does that is the key to political ideology.

 

[Flopper]

The size of government is not part of any political ideology; what government does, however, can be. When government did for royalty and the noble class, government could be small in size, but then when we the people discovered government can be used for the benefit of the common-folk, as royalty used if for theirs, it began to rankle conservatives.
It is not the size of government but what government does that is the key to political ideology.

Of course everyone wants a small low cost federal government that is non-intrusive into their lives. However, just about everyone also wants a government that does much more than just provides for national defense and basic freedoms to individuals to pursue their goals.

IMHO, people today place a much higher value on both human life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness and they expect government to do more to insure these ideals are met. This is not just some crackpot liberal American philosophy, but it's a trend that exist in every nation on earth. People want more out of their government, not less which is why modern conservatives will never accomplish their small government goals. People will always agree they want a less costly government but will never agree on how that should be accomplished because you can't have a small government and provides what people want.