I am so f***ing sick of this garbage

[The ClayTaurus]

Oh really? how do you feel about affirmative action. AKA raced based preferences.

Thread-jack :wank:

 

[Gunny]

I do not take back what I said. The Geneva Convention affords POWs due process of law and the same human rights our own soldiers get pure and simple.

What you said is "CIVIL rights." If you look at the post you are responding to, nowhere do I contradict the principle that prisoners should be treated with basic human rights, nor does what i posted concerning the Geneva Convention contradict it.

Arguing with strawmen?

POWs are NOT afforded "due process" as we know it in the US as it applies to civil/criminal law. POWs can be held for no more reason that fighting for our enemy for the duration of hostilities.


To expect adrenalin-driven soldiers trained to kill (not trained to police) in life or death situations to judge each and every potential combatant's worth as a prisoner is a little naive in my opinion. I think it's better to take prisoners and let the judiciary sort them out. GunnyL said it himself:

Wrong answer, Einstein. If in doubt, I'm sending rounds downrange.

 

[Gunny]

Um, as if, whateverrrrrrrrrr. Not all missions are manhunts. They make arrests whenever they encounter someone suspicious. The point I made is that soldiers can't be expected to judge the pros and cons of every person and situation and then decide to arrest them. We can only expect them to arrest everybody they see as a threat to their security. After they make their arrests, the judicial process can decide guilt or innocence.

What do YOU know about what we expect of "soldiers?" I DAMNED_STRAIGHT expected my Marines to use good judgement, and if they did not, they were dishing chow and scrubbing pots back on the ship.

You are naive if you think otherwise. What do you think your tax dollars pay for? You pay for people like me, PEGWINN, CSM, and any other senior enlisted and/or officers to train these people to know when to take prisoners, and when to open fire.

THAT ought to help you sleep better tonight.

 

[Gunny]

What do you mean "what's that prove." It proves I won the argument between him and me. Didn't you read posts 19, 26, 29, 30, & 31?

Why is it always some left-wingnut using "I won" in their posts? As IF .....

 

[Gunny]

But I didn't misunderstand! I quoted his damn post! He said what he said in plain English. How did you guys interpret that post?



...but otherwise KILL EVERYBODY ELSE? Give me a break.

Sounds like a plan to me. Saves the trouble of sorting them out.

 

[Gunny]

Well, the obvious question for me is how many dead Iraqis holding frying pans, screw drivers, kitchen utensils, etc. that our soldiers mistook for weapons does it take to invalidate that kind of policy?

How many of you libs does it take to push that kind of bullshit and tie our troops' hands behind their backs?

You make a hostile movement toward a Marine with your toothbrush and he's going to drop you. Simple as that. If you don't like it, write your Congressman.

 

[Gunny]

A frying pan, screw driver, or kitchen utensil can be used as a weapon, but ignoring that, no number would invalidate it.

If more than half the people being shot were in fact old Iraqi women in their kitchens, holding blenders, than I would suggest a re-evaluation of the types of missions our soldiers were being sent on, not a re-evaluation of their conduct.

See, I don't care about innocent Iraqis anywhere near as much as I care about our troops. That's why I support strategic bombing, and that's why I support a free fire policy for our troops.

I don't think we should second-guess the actions of our troops in the field, nor do I believe we should hand-cuff them with unreasonable expectations of restrait. They are soldiers, they are trained to kill. I say let them do their job.

Nice post. I'd rep you for it, but seems I've done that recently.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

What do YOU know about what we expect of "soldiers?" I DAMNED_STRAIGHT expected my Marines to use good judgement, and if they did not, they were dishing chow and scrubbing pots back on the ship.

You are naive if you think otherwise. What do you think your tax dollars pay for? You pay for people like me, PEGWINN, CSM, and any other senior enlisted and/or officers to train these people to know when to take prisoners, and when to open fire.

THAT ought to help you sleep better tonight.

Here's to tax dollars well spent.

EDIT: DISCLAIMER: That is not sarcastic.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

Here's to tax dollars well spent.

Boy, you're a real smarmy f*ckface, aren't you?

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Boy, you're a real smarmy f*ckface, aren't you?

You're an idiot. I was complimenting him, and I even gave him rep points.

 

[rtwngAvngr]

You're an idiot. I was complimenting him, and I even gave him rep points.

Sounded sarcastic. My bad. And you're really the idiot of the board. Go do your Rush homework.

 

[The ClayTaurus]

Sounded sarcastic. My bad. And you're really the idiot of the board. Go do your Rush homework.

Double thread jack :wank: :wank:

 

[USMCDevilDog]

Oh really? how do you feel about affirmative action. AKA raced based preferences.

...sigh, are you really gonna start the race issue again?

 

[USMCDevilDog]

Here's to tax dollars well spent.

EDIT: DISCLAIMER: That is not sarcastic.

Here Here!

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Originally Posted by GunnyL
What do YOU know about what we expect of "soldiers?" I DAMNED_STRAIGHT expected my Marines to use good judgement, and if they did not, they were dishing chow and scrubbing pots back on the ship.

You are naive if you think otherwise. What do you think your tax dollars pay for? You pay for people like me, PEGWINN, CSM, and any other senior enlisted and/or officers to train these people to know when to take prisoners, and when to open fire.

THAT ought to help you sleep better tonight.

Hey, I don't need a knuckle-dragger like you to pee on my leg for me to know that our soldiers do their jobs well. What I meant in my post is that we can't expect soldiers (or any human beings for that matter) in these adrenalin-filled situations to take a step back and ponder the pros and cons involved in every situation when they sometimes only have seconds to react.

What I said was this:

Not all missions are manhunts. They make arrests whenever they encounter someone suspicious. The point I made is that soldiers can't be expected to judge the pros and cons of every person and situation and then decide to arrest them [edit: or leave them be]. We can only expect them to arrest everybody they see as a threat to their security. After they make their arrests, the judicial process can decide guilt or innocence.

Now you tell me what's wrong with that other than the fact that it was me who wrote it. I think you're just being a d*ck because you were a Marine and I'm not so you think I'm incapable of having an opinion on military matters.

 

[Gunny]

Hey, I don't need a knuckle-dragger like you to pee on my leg for me to know that our soldiers do their jobs well. What I meant in my post is that we can't expect soldiers (or any human beings for that matter) in these adrenalin-filled situations to take a step back and ponder the pros and cons involved in every situation when they sometimes only have seconds to react.

Knuckledragger, huh? Why? Because I'm not some smarmy-ass, PC liberal smackass like you?

Typical liberal BS ... since I don't agree, I must not understand. Nothing difficult about what you posted, and again, you are wrong. Military personnel are trained to act in EXACTLY the circumstance you described. What you basically are saying is that we cannot be trusted to do exactly that which we train endlessly to be able to do.
What I said was this:



Now you tell me what's wrong with that other than the fact that it was me who wrote it. I think you're just being a d*ck because you were a Marine and I'm not so you think I'm incapable of having an opinion on military matters.

I do not think civilians are incapable of having opinions on militay matters. I even go so far as to think that those who bother to educated themselves on the topic they choose to comment on are usually correct, or close to it.

You on the other hand have proven with your own words you are ignorant on the subject.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Look GunnyL, I'm not saying anything about the trustworthiness of the troops. That's just more of your "You're against the war so you must hate the troops" bullsh*t. And believe me when I tell you that I understand how much training soldiers go through (By the way, thanks for letting me in on that one. I might've gone through my whole life thinking that soldiers were just plucked out of suburbia and put into Iraq with no training whatsoever! THANKS BUD!!!!)

What I'm saying, in the simplest possible language, is that it's hard to think when you're being shot at. Instinct takes over at this point so we can't expect soldiers to philosophize about whether or not every person they come into contact with is or isn't worth arresting and/or killing. They're either going to kill people who try to kill them or arrest them. One or the other. (just so you know, we're talking about situations outside of those in which a certain person is targeted for arrest and questioning.)

I don't like the idea of a bloodbath on either side, so I'm for more arrests than casualties. Of course casualties can't always be avoided because sometimes it's you or them, but before you post more bullsh*t about how much more patriotic than me you are, assume for a moment that I also care about the lives of our troops.

 

[Gunny]

Look GunnyL, I'm not saying anything about the trustworthiness of the troops. That's just more of your "You're against the war so you must hate the troops" bullsh*t. And believe me when I tell you that I understand how much training soldiers go through (By the way, thanks for letting me in on that one. I might've gone through my whole life thinking that soldiers were just plucked out of suburbia and put into Iraq with no training whatsoever! THANKS BUD!!!!)

This is the second time you have tried to dismiss the fact that you are incorrect by attempting to accuse me of one-dimensional stereotyping.

I assume you can back up your comment by quoting exactly where I said to ANYONE "you're against war so you must hate the troops." I can save you some time. I have NEVER said that.

It is obvious by your statement you do NOT understand. But feel free to enlighten the masses on your miltiary experience and/or education on the topic. You're 0 for 1 so far.

What I'm saying, in the simplest possible language, is that it's hard to think when you're being shot at. Instinct takes over at this point so we can't expect soldiers to philosophize about whether or not every person they come into contact with is or isn't worth arresting and/or killing. They're either going to kill people who try to kill them or arrest them. One or the other. (just so you know, we're talking about situations outside of those in which a certain person is targeted for arrest and questioning.)

I understood you the first two times you said it, and you're STILL wrong. Get over your psuedo-intellectual elitist self.

To clarify it for you since you decided to impose a scenario, ANY troop I know is going to kill someone trying to kill them unless or until that person is rendered incapable of inflicting harm on anyone.


I don't like the idea of a bloodbath on either side, so I'm for more arrests than casualties. Of course casualties can't always be avoided because sometimes it's you or them, but before you post more bullsh*t about how much more patriotic than me you are, assume for a moment that I also care about the lives of our troops.

I have said I was more patriotic than you? Link please.

The objective of any military force is to render the enemy incable of waging war by any means necessary and only that force which IS necessary. If that means killing them to the man, so be it. If it means arresting them all, so be it.

In the case of Islamic terrorist in Iraq, THEY are dictating the response. They had a clean slate after Saddam was deposed. There wouldn't still be any hostilities but for them. When you have snakes in the yard you kill them.

 

[Hagbard Celine]

Fine GunnyL. You've proven my point beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not even going to post on this subject any more because you deem everything I say worthless because you believe I'm incapable of having a decent opinion on anything military related.

You are irrational and incapable of debating in a reasonable manner.

To clarify it for you since you decided to impose a scenario, ANY troop I know is going to kill someone trying to kill them unless or until that person is rendered incapable of inflicting harm on anyone.

No shit, I said this already.

 

[manu1959]

America taking a cue from Isreal:

http://www.armytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-1134350.php



Oh well THAT just eases my fears. I mean, Muslims NEVER just...you know, LIE.

How about we just sign a Memoranda of Understanding or two with the terrorists? That would make it aaaaaaaaalllllllllll better.

this will work out just fine.....get some good will chips by letting "the least bad" go......follow them and then arrest them and who the hook up with.....fishing trip.....