CDZ How would YOU deal with this Business Situation?....

[Sonny Clark]

Once you learn and realize what unions are, and what they do, you'll walk out the door and never look back. Good luck.

Actually, I'm one of the Techs who doesn't want the Senior position. I'm also the Union Steward for the Department. None of us want the responsibilities, headaches, etc... that come with that Senior job. Hell, the remaining Senior is trying to figure our how to get out of the job.

I'm reasonably pleased with the job I have now and for $2.71 an hour, the additional headaches and responsibilities aren't worth it.

Then drop back ten and punt the ball. There's nothing else you can do. It's out of your hands.

 

[Skull Pilot]

Sorry but of a 100 a week raise plus a promotion that will likely make you a better candidate for another promotion is a good trade off for a little more work.

There is no other position to qualify for in the Union. The only place to go from there is to a Management position, where the Union experience would not be of any help.

But like I said if none of those lazy union slobs want to advance and you cannot hire from outside then you either get rid of the position or leave it unfilled and spread the work out over everyone else with no pay raises.

They can get rid of the second (vacant) Senior position but they cannot re-asssign the other Senior Tech back to Tech status; nor can they take Senior work and give it to Techs without "upgrading" them to Senior. Even then, that's considered a Temp Assignment and the Techs can choose not to take it.

All experience is helpful.

There is nothing that tough about moving from a non management position to a management position.

I hear you people an quite frankly I don't get it.

I took every chance a promotion I could when I was working for other people.

My goal was to always be my boss's boss. People who want to be stagnant mystify me.

 

[Anathema]

All experience is helpful. There is nothing that tough about moving from a non management position to a management position.

Having been a Management employee with this company, there isn't enough money out there to ever make me go back to it. The lack of respect, honor, and decency shown to Management employees by this Company is disgustingly high.

I hear you people an quite frankly I don't get it. I took every chance a promotion I could when I was working for other people. My goal was to always be my boss's boss. People who want to be stagnant mystify me.

Why? So I can do more work (of a type I have no interest in), add more stress to my life (which already has plenty), and get payed about $65 a week more? I don't think so. I have never wanted to be a Boss. Definitely not in this company.

 

[JoeMoma]

I wouldn't deal with it. I would leave dealing with it to management. I don't get paid enough to justify the stress of dealing with it.

 

[WinterBorn]

Sorry but of a 100 a week raise plus a promotion that will likely make you a better candidate for another promotion is a good trade off for a little more work.

There is no other position to qualify for in the Union. The only place to go from there is to a Management position, where the Union experience would not be of any help.

But like I said if none of those lazy union slobs want to advance and you cannot hire from outside then you either get rid of the position or leave it unfilled and spread the work out over everyone else with no pay raises.

They can get rid of the second (vacant) Senior position but they cannot re-asssign the other Senior Tech back to Tech status; nor can they take Senior work and give it to Techs without "upgrading" them to Senior. Even then, that's considered a Temp Assignment and the Techs can choose not to take it.

All experience is helpful.

There is nothing that tough about moving from a non management position to a management position.

I hear you people an quite frankly I don't get it.

I took every chance a promotion I could when I was working for other people.

My goal was to always be my boss's boss. People who want to be stagnant mystify me.

Not all promotions are improvements.

 

[LoneLaugher]

If I cannot rewrite the job descriptions for the 3 techs, then I would hire a senior tech with union qualifications from another business. I may have to pay relocating expenses to do so, but it would fill the position without an increase in pay. It would only require a one time expenditure of money for relocating the new employee.

Nope. Cannot rewrite the job descriptions without negotiating them. The Senior Tech description requires multiple years of experience at the lower classifications in the roster.... hiring from outside is not a realistic option without incuring an Unfair Labor Practices charge.

Who is going to levy that charge? On why grounds?

 

[Shrimpbox]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Promote from within. Take someone without a "tech" rating, train them, help them, encourage them, give them the benefit of your experience, and show a lot of confidence in them. Sometimes the best employees are the ones you would least expect. Good management can bring someone along that others look past. I have done it several times, back in my working days. Sometimes it took awhile, but in the end, they turned out to be the best employees anyone could ask for. Many lack the self esteem required until someone shows confidence and trust in them. Once they realize that they can do the job, they do a GREAT job.

Great observations Sonny and from personal experience all so true. It is hard to believe in this age of attitude but low self esteem and a lack of confidence in ones own ability are serious hurdles for many young people who aspire to succeed. They need role models, mentors, and teachers and a nation that values success and opportunity instead of dependency.

 

[Sonny Clark]

I'm especially interested in hearing from business owners, managers, and supervisory personnel on this issue, but wonder if others may have run into something similar before, themselves.....

You are the Manager of a Union Department that has four classifications (in ascending order..... Tech B, Tech A, Tech, Sr Tech). One of your two Senior Techs is retiring. You have three Techs who are all qualified to move up to the Senior Tech position, but none of them want it. This is largely due to the significant change in the type of work the Senior Tech position requires, the increased stress of the job, and the minimal increase (about $5500 a year) in pay rate. You have two Tech A's and one Tech B; none of whom can qualify to take the Senior Tech position.

How do you proceed/what do you do?

Here are the stipulations........

1. You cannot de-unionize the department
2. There are no other qualified Union candidates in the Company
2. You cannot bring in a candidate off the street due to Union rules

I'll answer any pertinent questions you may have.

Promote from within. Take someone without a "tech" rating, train them, help them, encourage them, give them the benefit of your experience, and show a lot of confidence in them. Sometimes the best employees are the ones you would least expect. Good management can bring someone along that others look past. I have done it several times, back in my working days. Sometimes it took awhile, but in the end, they turned out to be the best employees anyone could ask for. Many lack the self esteem required until someone shows confidence and trust in them. Once they realize that they can do the job, they do a GREAT job.

Great observations Sonny and from personal experience all so true. It is hard to believe in this age of attitude but low self esteem and a lack of confidence in ones own ability are serious hurdles for many young people who aspire to succeed. They need role models, mentors, and teachers and a nation that values success and opportunity instead of dependency.

Yes, I agree 110%. Times sure have changed since I use to do all of those things with young employees. No one wants to take the time with young people anymore. The work place is all about egos now. When I was working, workers helped workers. Everyone realized that the more the others knew, the easier their own jobs became. A win - win situation. Thanks for your comment, much appreciated.

 

[HenryBHough]

Since nobody qualified in the union wants the job then the employer should be able to hire off the street with the provision that the successful candidate join the union.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Since nobody qualified in the union wants the job then the employer should be able to hire off the street with the provision that the successful candidate join the union.

I was with you until you mentioned they had to join the union.

 

[HenryBHough]

Apparently it's a union shop. That would make the new employee forced to join the union. But on the plus side, since the union would be raking off part of his pay in dues their chances of their objecting is reduced.

 

[Anathema]

Great observations Sonny and from personal experience all so true. It is hard to believe in this age of attitude but low self esteem and a lack of confidence in ones own ability are serious hurdles for many young people who aspire to succeed. They need role models, mentors, and teachers and a nation that values success and opportunity instead of dependency.

Let's take a look at the three individuals who don't want this job....

#1. 55 years old. 18 years with the company, all in this department
#2. 45 years old. 17 years with the company, all in this department. Is trying to get out of the department entirely.
#3. 40 years old. 14 years with the company. all in this department.

These are not wet behind the ears children. They are experienced employees who can see that the job is something they have no interest in doing. Especially considering the rate of pay increase from their current position is nominal (roughly $65 per week).

 

[Anathema]

Since nobody qualified in the union wants the job then the employer should be able to hire off the street with the provision that the successful candidate join the union.

I had several extended conversations with the Union officers last night. In fact, if nobody wants the position the Company WOULD be able to take someone from off the street. However, they would have to join the Union and they would start at the absolute BOTTOM of the Seniority list. Top Classification, zero Seniority. That means they'd be the first forced to stay for OT and the last to get a choice of Storm Assignments if/when there is Storm Work.

 

[Sonny Clark]

Since nobody qualified in the union wants the job then the employer should be able to hire off the street with the provision that the successful candidate join the union.

I had several extended conversations with the Union officers last night. In fact, if nobody wants the position the Company WOULD be able to take someone from off the street. However, they would have to join the Union and they would start at the absolute BOTTOM of the Seniority list. Top Classification, zero Seniority. That means they'd be the first forced to stay for OT and the last to get a choice of Storm Assignments if/when there is Storm Work.

It's the price for working for a union. One day people will wake up and smell the coffee where unions are concerned. But, unions are losing numbers as the years go by.

 

[Anathema]

It's the price for working for a union. One day people will wake up and smell the coffee where unions are concerned. But, unions are losing numbers as the years go by.

Honestly, without the Union, this entire department would have been disolved three years ago, much to the detriment of the Company's ability to get work done, but to the advantage of their bottom line. When one works for a Company where the ONLY consideration is dollar bills (not customers, employees, or even the service they provide), NOT being in the Union can be unhalethy to your career and your steady employment.

 

[Sonny Clark]

It's the price for working for a union. One day people will wake up and smell the coffee where unions are concerned. But, unions are losing numbers as the years go by.

Honestly, without the Union, this entire department would have been disolved three years ago, much to the detriment of the Company's ability to get work done, but to the advantage of their bottom line. When one works for a Company where the ONLY consideration is dollar bills (not customers, employees, or even the service they provide), NOT being in the Union can be unhalethy to your career and your steady employment.

Oh, I fully understand. I know all about greedy unions and members. I understand the selfish greed factor. I'm well aware of the unions intent, their control over businesses and union members, and their ill affect on our economy.

 

[Anathema]

Oh, I fully understand. I know all about greedy unions and members. I understand the selfish greed factor. I'm well aware of the unions intent, their control over businesses and union members, and their ill affect on our economy.

So let me get this straight..... YOU are saying that it would have been better off for the 90+ of us (between 2 departments) who Unionized in 2009 ti have lost our jobs in that economy rather than joining the Union? IS that REALLY what you're suggesting?

 

[Moonglow]

I don't understand how a union man can be doing a non union man's job. If the manager position is non-union then he can't have union members doing the prescribed job duties....

 

[Anathema]

I don't understand how a union man can be doing a non union man's job. If the manager position is non-union then he can't have union members doing the prescribed job duties....

It goes back to mid-2010 when then Department was Centralized. 7 individuals from 6 locations, all doing different things in different ways. Up to that point, your job title really meant nothing other than your wage rate. Once we all came to a common location, the Manager started asking the Senior Techs to take on additional responsibilities and started taking other responsibilities away from them to open up the time necessary for the new work. Despite numerous protests from the Steward, the Senior Techs AGREED to take on these new tasks (which have been constantly added to over the last 4 1/2 years); thereby tacitly accepting the new work as part of their job role. This came about largely because those two individuals were used to working in a non-Union environment, where you simply did what you were told/asked to do. They didn't understand the implications of the changes, and the one who is still here has since agreed that they ****ed up, big time.

 

[Desperado]

Have the Union Rep supply the replacement from either the people in house or from another union shop.
Stinks to be union.