CDZ How poor a lot of Americans are

[Figaro]

No, there's not "starving in the street" type poverty like India or Africa generally speaking but I think many people, including a lot of Americans don't realize just how little a lot of people in this country have.

A third of Americans make less than $15,000 a year. You might argue "that's still millions compared to people in the Third World". Well not really and here's why.

In this country healthcare is largely paid out of pocket and a car is a necessity to 80-90 percent of people and maintaining one is not cheap. A typical one bedroom apartment will cost you $8,000 a year on its own and that's in a relatively affordable city. $15,000 isn't even enough to support a bachelor honestly and some people raise kids on little more than this amount! You're essentially forced to borrow and go into debt when you're making that little, so many actually have negative income.

My only wealth is my decent health and my youth. I think this country is increasingly being divided into those who get lucky by having rich supportive parents or their ventures and ideas making them rich, and everyone else who lives off welfare or works jokes of jobs that pay less than peanuts

 

[Luddly Neddite]

Actually, there is "starving in the streets" in America.

Was it Donald Trump? Mitt Romney? Some dumb Repub said you should just borrow money from your family to start a business. Most can't do that though. Instead, you must rely on your own wits and the fact is, the system is designed to keep you poor.

Do everything you can to avoid consumer debt. Its a trap that will follow you throughout your life. If you possibly can, get an education. If you don't have wealthy parents, go to a country that offers free education for Americans.

Work hard. Don't settle.

 

[Derideo_Te]

Everyone who works a full 8 hour day should be paid a living wage with benefits. That means that they should be able to afford a place to stay, food, clothing and transportation.

Anything beyond that is up to the individual to aspire to but the minimum level means that taxpayers won't be supporting them, they will be supporting themselves.

 

[squeeze berry]

read an article a couple years ago that the average "poor" family in this country
had
adequate food, housing, clothing and medical care
telephone
microwave
appliances such as washer, dryer, range fridge
internet access
cable tv
Gameboy
air conditioning
2 cars

hell, some of those things we didn't have when I was a kid

found the linky

What is Poverty in the United States Air Conditioning Cable TV and an Xbox

 

[pismoe]

awww , whats a living wage ?? Lots of people live on meager wages or retirement funds , social security . Free or subsidized housing , food stamps , free care in the emergency room , subsidized bus transport , obamaphones , etc , etc are all available [plus subsidized utilities] . At 15 thou a year just don't have kids , do get married , work to stay healthy and try to get a better job if you can work and if you want more material things .

 

[pismoe]

thanks Squeeze Berry !!

 

[pismoe]

and mostly , even if living on the street as a drunkard you won't starve to death in the USA if you wanna eat . Course a lotta hardcore drunks and druggies don't want to eat anyway so they are not an example of starvation on the streets of America .

 

[BlackSand]

Since 2.6% of Americans earn minimum wage ... And 33.3% make less than $15500 annually ... The where are the other 30.7% of Americans making their money?

The percent of Americans earning minimum wage has actually dropped from 7.9% in 1979 ... To 2.6% in 2013. If the percent of minimum wage earners is dropping ... And the percent of American workers earning below minimum wage is rising ... Then minimum wage is not the problem.

Add the fact that the Poverty Line in America is set at $16 an hour ... Or $33280 annually ... And it might be worthwhile to determine how minimum wage is expected to support a family above the Poverty Line.

Maybe we shouldn't encourage and support the minimum as a sustainable goal that exceeds anything other than poverty. Who came up with the idea the minimum should be rewarded or provide anything other than the minimum in return?

.

 

[PratchettFan]

No, there's not "starving in the street" type poverty like India or Africa generally speaking but I think many people, including a lot of Americans don't realize just how little a lot of people in this country have.

A third of Americans make less than $15,000 a year. You might argue "that's still millions compared to people in the Third World". Well not really and here's why.

In this country healthcare is largely paid out of pocket and a car is a necessity to 80-90 percent of people and maintaining one is not cheap. A typical one bedroom apartment will cost you $8,000 a year on its own and that's in a relatively affordable city. $15,000 isn't even enough to support a bachelor honestly and some people raise kids on little more than this amount! You're essentially forced to borrow and go into debt when you're making that little, so many actually have negative income.

My only wealth is my decent health and my youth. I think this country is increasingly being divided into those who get lucky by having rich supportive parents or their ventures and ideas making them rich, and everyone else who lives off welfare or works jokes of jobs that pay less than peanuts

No one said life was fair. Take advantage of your health and youth, come up with a plan of action and follow through with it.

 

[peach174]

Actually, there is "starving in the streets" in America.

Was it Donald Trump? Mitt Romney? Some dumb Repub said you should just borrow money from your family to start a business. Most can't do that though. Instead, you must rely on your own wits and the fact is, the system is designed to keep you poor.

Do everything you can to avoid consumer debt. Its a trap that will follow you throughout your life. If you possibly can, get an education. If you don't have wealthy parents, go to a country that offers free education for Americans.

Work hard. Don't settle.

I agree with you about don't get your self into consumer debt.
There is no country that offers Americans free education except Germany who just started that in Oct. of this year.
Where will they get 1,400 to 1,500 for the ticket to go there?
You would still have to find a job in order to pay for your food and a place to stay in Germany and that is not cheep.
Best bet, stay here in America get a job and go to a community night college. Then get a better job with that degree and then go to another college to get an even better job with that degree. Hard work yes, but you won't be in debt with a student loan.

Also it's the Democrat polices that designed the system that keeps them poor.

No one in Americas is starving in the streets like other countries who really are starving.
Some Americans have low food security but they are not starving.

 

[gipper]

When a nation is governed by an oligarchy that insures the wealthy benefit the most, the consequences for everyone else are clearly visible.

 

[pismoe]

thought that Starvation was the topic Gipper . Rich people are the people that have given me all my jobs and I pretty much like the system .

 

[PratchettFan]

When a nation is governed by an oligarchy that insures the wealthy benefit the most, the consequences for everyone else are clearly visible.

Why, you little socialist you.

 

[Silent Warrior]

What the whole minimum wage and living wage issue ignores is the real question that must be asked. What is the job worth. Trying to keep an example absurdly simple, if you can make one widget an hour and a widget sells for $6 you can't pay $7 an hour to make them. If mandated to do so you have to raise prices, increase individuals productivity, replace workers with machines or stop making widgets.

 

[gipper]

When a nation is governed by an oligarchy that insures the wealthy benefit the most, the consequences for everyone else are clearly visible.

Why, you little socialist you.

Never been a socialist, but I am a realist...socialism is the problem.

 

[PratchettFan]

What the whole minimum wage and living wage issue ignores is the real question that must be asked. What is the job worth. Trying to keep an example absurdly simple, if you can make one widget an hour and a widget sells for $6 you can't pay $7 an hour to make them. If mandated to do so you have to raise prices, increase individuals productivity, replace workers with machines or stop making widgets.

Perhaps the solution there is fire the manger who thinks making one widget an hour is a job at all.

 

[Silent Warrior]

What the whole minimum wage and living wage issue ignores is the real question that must be asked. What is the job worth. Trying to keep an example absurdly simple, if you can make one widget an hour and a widget sells for $6 you can't pay $7 an hour to make them. If mandated to do so you have to raise prices, increase individuals productivity, replace workers with machines or stop making widgets.

Perhaps the solution there is fire the manger who thinks making one widget an hour is a job at all.

As I said I tried to keep the example absurdly simple. Our problem is that too many people in a discussion give such a glib answer and the discussion goes nowhere.

 

[PratchettFan]

What the whole minimum wage and living wage issue ignores is the real question that must be asked. What is the job worth. Trying to keep an example absurdly simple, if you can make one widget an hour and a widget sells for $6 you can't pay $7 an hour to make them. If mandated to do so you have to raise prices, increase individuals productivity, replace workers with machines or stop making widgets.

Perhaps the solution there is fire the manger who thinks making one widget an hour is a job at all.

As I said I tried to keep the example absurdly simple. Our problem is that too many people in a discussion give such a glib answer and the discussion goes nowhere.

Not glib at all. The worker is not the only factor in this. The management has to make sure the operation is structured to make a profit. If a given position does not produce a profit, then the position should not exist. If it does, that is the fault of management. If the community determines there will be a minimum wage, then the company has to exist within that environment. If it can't, then it shouldn't exist at all. But again, that is the fault of management.

 

[Silent Warrior]

What the whole minimum wage and living wage issue ignores is the real question that must be asked. What is the job worth. Trying to keep an example absurdly simple, if you can make one widget an hour and a widget sells for $6 you can't pay $7 an hour to make them. If mandated to do so you have to raise prices, increase individuals productivity, replace workers with machines or stop making widgets.

Perhaps the solution there is fire the manger who thinks making one widget an hour is a job at all.

As I said I tried to keep the example absurdly simple. Our problem is that too many people in a discussion give such a glib answer and the discussion goes nowhere.

Not glib at all. The worker is not the only factor in this. The management has to make sure the operation is structured to make a profit. If a given position does not produce a profit, then the position should not exist. If it does, that is the fault of management. If the community determines there will be a minimum wage, then the company has to exist within that environment. If it can't, then it shouldn't exist at all. But again, that is the fault of management.

You seem to be ignoring the main point of job worth to concentrate on management ills. I suppose it is my fault for using such a limited example. I thought it would get the idea across without using a whole page to explain the cost of manufacturing an item breaking it down to wages, benefits, production, marketing, storage of unsold inventory, research and development, other overhead and profit.

Of course it is managements responsibility. The community shouldn't set a pay scale. Management should. If they then can't hire people to do the job they will need to determine what action to take. The community already sets the value by what they are willing to pay for the item. Having the community also set the wage is what causes the part of problem.

 

[squeeze berry]

there are two men I know that fit the "working poor" description.
Neither one will accept a job on a regular payroll opting instead to work as free lance handyman or under the table construction.

They chuckle about getting more money by not paying taxes or social security. When I ask them how they are ever going to retire without social security quarters they stare at me and for once in their arrogant lives don't have an answer. They usually have an answer for everything, but it's always based on ignorance of reality and sarcastic.

When they are short on funds they will pester their relatives or friends for help.The people in their lives owe them that much after all!

When they get sick or hurt themselves in a drunken fall or accident they run to the emergency room and get free care. Then they can't work their under the table job or get unemployment so they go back to begging again.


Never mind that both always have money to buy beer, weed and cigs and are high most of their waking hours.

The thought of working in a McDonalds or walmart is repugnant to them. It is beneath their dignity. They likely can't get a real job anyway as they have no employment history at the age of 40 something.

I know of others like this. Some people deserve to be poor and raising the minimum wage will not make a difference. Somehow they will just blow their money on drugs or gambling and repeat the cycle of their indifference to anything but their immediate gratification.

sorry for the rant