How much should health care cost? Should it cost anything?

[RDD_1210]

I know what they're for. They let his special buddies opt out of his special health care cause it's too damn expensive.. Next?

Incorrect

S'not

Let me check again......


...yup still wrong.

 

[Big Fitz]

You - Don't care if other people (working or not) can get access to healthcare. The solution to the problem is work harder.

Have the money? You can access health care. Don't have the money, there are private charities to help. Think Shriners Hospitals, Catholic Charities, Ronald McDonald House. All help people with medical issues and their associated crap becomes If government is administrating, it won't matter if you have money or not. They say no... you get nothing.

And currently, there are HUNDREDS of state and federal government programs you can use to help with health care costs. Pharmacies offer nurse practitioners to do basic medical care.

Don't hand me the poor can't access healthcare. I'm poor and I can get it any time I want.

And lastly, if a crisis happens, you cannot be REFUSED health care till you are out of harm's way. It is called an M-TALA violation and hospitals and doctors can be charged with a crime if they do them.

Another cry baby who only cares about "how does it affect me", yet doesn't realize that healthcare reform is actually helping you, you're just not smart enough to realize it.

Really? How?

By collapsing competition and destroying the health care industry thanks to circumventing the market?

By putting politicians and bureaucrats between me and my doctor just like the almost extinct HMOs did?

By causing doctors to quit the profession, because of the new regulations and lawsuits and decreased pay and restrictions on billing?

By increasing spending to unsustainable levels destroying the nation's economy for deadbeats?

By overloading the system forcing rationing sooner?

By ignoring the lack of constitutional authority to do ANY of this?

How is this helping me? I'd rather be able to get cheap health insurance for catastrophic care from a company that has to compete nationally and covers only what I want. I'd rather get a 'membership' to a medical network where I can use basic services and tests to a rationed level like dental or vision care, while paying for extra needs. I'd rather be able to shop the prices of any hospital, clinic or doctor's office with publically listed prices instead of having to call a secret number, give a code and THEN be given the price on the procedure that I have no ability to compare or get a second opinion.

National healthcare ruins nations. England and Canada prove that... and our proposed system is even worse.

 

[Big Fitz]

Obama Care is so good that SEIU has asked for and was granted a waiver. They are now one of the over 700 applicants granted a waiver from Obama Care. So believe what you may, SEIU raised 23 million for Obama's election but don't want anything to do with Obama's flagship program - health care.

Closing in on 800 companies and nearly every union. Yeah, that's going to fix the problems of healthcare. Pass draconian laws to wreck the industry then exempt your friends. ******* peachy.

 

[RDD_1210]

You - Don't care if other people (working or not) can get access to healthcare. The solution to the problem is work harder.

Have the money? You can access health care. Don't have the money, there are private charities to help. Think Shriners Hospitals, Catholic Charities, Ronald McDonald House. All help people with medical issues and their associated crap becomes If government is administrating, it won't matter if you have money or not. They say no... you get nothing.

And currently, there are HUNDREDS of state and federal government programs you can use to help with health care costs. Pharmacies offer nurse practitioners to do basic medical care.

Don't hand me the poor can't access healthcare. I'm poor and I can get it any time I want.

And lastly, if a crisis happens, you cannot be REFUSED health care till you are out of harm's way. It is called an M-TALA violation and hospitals and doctors can be charged with a crime if they do them.

Another cry baby who only cares about "how does it affect me", yet doesn't realize that healthcare reform is actually helping you, you're just not smart enough to realize it.

Really? How?

By collapsing competition and destroying the health care industry thanks to circumventing the market?

By putting politicians and bureaucrats between me and my doctor just like the almost extinct HMOs did?

By causing doctors to quit the profession, because of the new regulations and lawsuits and decreased pay and restrictions on billing?

By increasing spending to unsustainable levels destroying the nation's economy for deadbeats?

By overloading the system forcing rationing sooner?

By ignoring the lack of constitutional authority to do ANY of this?

How is this helping me? I'd rather be able to get cheap health insurance for catastrophic care from a company that has to compete nationally and covers only what I want. I'd rather get a 'membership' to a medical network where I can use basic services and tests to a rationed level like dental or vision care, while paying for extra needs. I'd rather be able to shop the prices of any hospital, clinic or doctor's office with publically listed prices instead of having to call a secret number, give a code and THEN be given the price on the procedure that I have no ability to compare or get a second opinion.

National healthcare ruins nations. England and Canada prove that... and our proposed system is even worse.

Soooooooooooo much wrong with so much of what you said.

Not sure even where to start...The fact that you think that this healthcare reform is nationalized healthcare and that a real world solution to getting people the care they need is relying on charities is proof enough that you are clueless to the situation in this country.

 

[Big Fitz]

Do you even understand what the waivers are for? Who gets them? Why they get them? Or how long they are for. Doesn't look like it.

I know what they're for. They let his special buddies opt out of his special health care cause it's too damn expensive.. Next?

Incorrect

Got any proof? Seems like all the unions and those who financially supported P-BO are getting these waivers by a very large margin over anyone else.

And what's the effect of these waivers going to be, now that it's protecting hundreds of thousands of those supposed to pay into a 'fair and equitable system that spreads the costs over all citizens'?

 

[RDD_1210]

I know what they're for. They let his special buddies opt out of his special health care cause it's too damn expensive.. Next?

Incorrect

Got any proof? Seems like all the unions and those who financially supported P-BO are getting these waivers by a very large margin over anyone else.

And what's the effect of these waivers going to be, now that it's protecting hundreds of thousands of those supposed to pay into a 'fair and equitable system that spreads the costs over all citizens'?

"Mini-med plans have lower limits than allowed under the Affordable Care Act. While mini-med plans do not provide security in the event of serious illness or accident, they are unfortunately the only option that some employers offer. In order to protect coverage for these workers, the Affordable Care Act allows these plans to apply for temporary waivers from rules restricting the size of annual limits to some group health plans and health insurance issuers.

Waivers only last for one year and are only available if the plan certifies that a waiver is necessary to prevent either a large increase in premiums or a significant decrease in access to coverage. In addition, enrollees must be informed that their plan does not meet the requirements of the Affordable Care Act. No other provision of the Affordable Care Act is affected by these waivers: they only apply to the annual limit policy."

Helping Americans Keep the Coverage They Have and Promoting Transparency | HHS.gov

 

[Big Fitz]

So... a waiver for a year, which will probably be renewed if Obamacare cannot be repealed as it should be. I have to laugh at this then.

In 2014, the Affordable Care Act will end mini-med plans when Americans will have better access to affordable, comprehensive health insurance plans that cannot use high deductibles or annual limits to limit benefits.

This makes me wonder why a waiver was even granted in the first place since these plans will be BANNED in 2014. Yes that is the appropriate term because they will ended by force of law.

You do also realize that most people do not partake in the mini med plans because they are too expensive for what they offer in service off the paycheck right? So, really, is this a help? Probably not. It allows employers to pretend they are paying their employees more by offering this benefit of health insurance that nobody can afford to take. Better to be honest, end employer based healthcare and put the cash back in employees hands so they can purchase their own health insurance policy that can't be taken from them when they change jobs. Less government power, control and interference, so I suppose that's why you'd not like it.

Waivers only last for one year and are only available if the plan certifies that a waiver is necessary to prevent either a large increase in premiums or a significant decrease in access to coverage.

I thought Obamacare lowered costs? How could this increase in costs exist? Or are all these businesses, unions cities, and counties lying?

So really... this does us any good how?

 

[RDD_1210]

So... a waiver for a year, which will probably be renewed if Obamacare cannot be repealed as it should be. I have to laugh at this then.

In 2014, the Affordable Care Act will end mini-med plans when Americans will have better access to affordable, comprehensive health insurance plans that cannot use high deductibles or annual limits to limit benefits.

This makes me wonder why a waiver was even granted in the first place since these plans will be BANNED in 2014. Yes that is the appropriate term because they will ended by force of law.

You do also realize that most people do not partake in the mini med plans because they are too expensive for what they offer in service off the paycheck right? So, really, is this a help? Probably not. It allows employers to pretend they are paying their employees more by offering this benefit of health insurance that nobody can afford to take. Better to be honest, end employer based healthcare and put the cash back in employees hands so they can purchase their own health insurance policy that can't be taken from them when they change jobs. Less government power, control and interference, so I suppose that's why you'd not like it.

Waivers only last for one year and are only available if the plan certifies that a waiver is necessary to prevent either a large increase in premiums or a significant decrease in access to coverage.

I thought Obamacare lowered costs? How could this increase in costs exist? Or are all these businesses, unions cities, and counties lying?

So really... this does us any good how?

You continue to say things that make me think you aren't even trying to understand what this legislation is about.

The waiver is needed to ensure that short term costs don't sky rocket for these companies or their access isn't cut off completely due to lack of time needed in order to get up to standard.

I thought Obamacare lowered costs? How could this increase in costs exist? Or are all these businesses, unions cities, and counties lying?

This legislation does in fact aim to lower costs. I've outlined how this happens in multiple posts in this thread. Could it do more to lower costs....of course. But this plan is still way better then what we had before it was passed.

 

[WillowTree]

Unions make up 40 percent of employees exempted from Obamacare | David Freddoso | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner






The reason these exemptions from the law are needed is that Obamacare forces all health insurance consumers to over-insure themselves and pay high premiums as a result. Without the waivers, many companies, non-profits and unions would simply drop their health plans

 

[RDD_1210]

Unions make up 40 percent of employees exempted from Obamacare | David Freddoso | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner






The reason these exemptions from the law are needed is that Obamacare forces all health insurance consumers to over-insure themselves and pay high premiums as a result. Without the waivers, many companies, non-profits and unions would simply drop their health plans

You say over-insure, the real world says otherwise.

 

[WillowTree]

Unions make up 40 percent of employees exempted from Obamacare | David Freddoso | Beltway Confidential | Washington Examiner






The reason these exemptions from the law are needed is that Obamacare forces all health insurance consumers to over-insure themselves and pay high premiums as a result. Without the waivers, many companies, non-profits and unions would simply drop their health plans

You say over-insure, the real world says otherwise.

You wouldn't know the real world if it bit you in the ass. come up outta that damn basement and get some air.

 

[syrenn]

My Bottom line for all of this is:

If you want national Insurance/health care, then EVERYONE should pay the same. No one gets exemptions.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Health care should cost whatever the market will bear.
The best way to reduce the cost of health care is for the consumer pay for the costs himself.

 

[Bern80]

You continue to say things that make me think you aren't even trying to understand what this legislation is about.

The waiver is needed to ensure that short term costs don't sky rocket for these companies or their access isn't cut off completely due to lack of time needed in order to get up to standard.

No we get it. You don't. What is going to change for these businesses? What variable is going to make it miraculously possible for them to afford next year, what they could not afford this year? In what warped economics class did you learn that higher cost and less choice works out better for any consumer?

This legislation does in fact aim to lower costs. I've outlined how this happens in multiple posts in this thread. Could it do more to lower costs....of course. But this plan is still way better then what we had before it was passed.

Subsidizing plans may lower the cost for consumers. It does not lower the cost of resources or the premiums. You aren't lowering costs at all. All you're doing is shifting who picks up the tab.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Another person who thinks we aren't already paying for everyones health care.

No, another person who KNOWS we're already paying for other people's health care, and doesn't think it's a good thing, OR that we need to expand it.

Just because you and your ilk have already fucked up our country doesn't actually mean that the rest of us are required to let you extend your ****-up-ery.

I'll summarize you're rambling posts and neg rep you sent me.

My posts stand just fine without any translation from tweekos like you, thanks so much. Should I ever think I need your help to express myself . . . well, that day will never come, but hold your breath waiting for it.

You - Don't care if other people (working or not) can get access to healthcare. The solution to the problem is work harder.

You - mistakenly thinking that your opinion is so important that I can be shamed into silence by the horror that is not being accepted by you.

Me - perfectly happy to say you're goddamned right i don't care about the PERSONAL problems of complete strangers, nor do I feel any compulsion whatsoever to take on responsibility for those problems. And I'm sure the **** not going to support any public policy predicated on the assumption that I OWE those people anything. If that makes greedy sleazebuckets like you think I'm a bad person, GOOD. The more you talk, the more convinced I become that your disapproval is a sign that I'm doing something right.

Another cry baby who only cares about "how does it affect me", yet doesn't realize that healthcare reform is actually helping you, you're just not smart enough to realize it.

We can talk "cry baby" when I start handing out sob stories and guilt trips like you, Oprah.

Health care reform does nothing for me, punk, for two reasons: 1) I already take care of me and mine, and 2) I'm not such a shiftless, brainless adolescent that I think finding a way to shift responsibility for myself onto others is a benefit.

 

[RDD_1210]

No, another person who KNOWS we're already paying for other people's health care, and doesn't think it's a good thing, OR that we need to expand it.

Just because you and your ilk have already fucked up our country doesn't actually mean that the rest of us are required to let you extend your ****-up-ery.

I'll summarize you're rambling posts and neg rep you sent me.

My posts stand just fine without any translation from tweekos like you, thanks so much. Should I ever think I need your help to express myself . . . well, that day will never come, but hold your breath waiting for it.

You - Don't care if other people (working or not) can get access to healthcare. The solution to the problem is work harder.

You - mistakenly thinking that your opinion is so important that I can be shamed into silence by the horror that is not being accepted by you.

Me - perfectly happy to say you're goddamned right i don't care about the PERSONAL problems of complete strangers, nor do I feel any compulsion whatsoever to take on responsibility for those problems. And I'm sure the **** not going to support any public policy predicated on the assumption that I OWE those people anything. If that makes greedy sleazebuckets like you think I'm a bad person, GOOD. The more you talk, the more convinced I become that your disapproval is a sign that I'm doing something right.

Another cry baby who only cares about "how does it affect me", yet doesn't realize that healthcare reform is actually helping you, you're just not smart enough to realize it.

We can talk "cry baby" when I start handing out sob stories and guilt trips like you, Oprah.

Health care reform does nothing for me, punk, for two reasons: 1) I already take care of me and mine, and 2) I'm not such a shiftless, brainless adolescent that I think finding a way to shift responsibility for myself onto others is a benefit.

The names you felt compelled to call me simply because I want to find a way to make sure that people in this country can stay healthy:
1) tweeko
2) sleazebucket
3) Oprah (Lol, really?)
4) Punk
5) brainless adolescent



You seem nice.

 

[RDD_1210]

My Bottom line for all of this is:

If you want national Insurance/health care, then EVERYONE should pay the same. No one gets exemptions.

Will never be able to work this way.

 

[syrenn]

My Bottom line for all of this is:

If you want national Insurance/health care, then EVERYONE should pay the same. No one gets exemptions.

Will never be able to work this way.

So long as some people want something for nothing, you are very right. So longs as some pay and others don't, you are so right. So long as some people expect the government to care for them cradle to coffin, you are very right. So long as people feel entitled, you are very right.

 

[syrenn]

Another cry baby who only cares about "how does it affect me", yet doesn't realize that healthcare reform is actually helping you, you're just not smart enough to realize it.

You are right. It is the ones who are cry babying "how does it affect me" "how do i get reform to help me" are the ones who want something for nothing. They just don't realize it.

 

[M14 Shooter]

My Bottom line for all of this is:

If you want national Insurance/health care, then EVERYONE should pay the same. No one gets exemptions.

Will never be able to work this way.

So long as some people want something for nothing, you are very right. So longs as some pay and others don't, you are so right. So long as some people expect the government to care for them cradle to coffin, you are very right. So long as people feel entitled, you are very right.

That's the cruix of the biscuit - people think they are entitled to healt care that they do not have to pay for - that they deserve to have their health care psid for by someone else.

These people vote for those that promise exactly that.