How much has Obama added to the Debt so far? About $100 Billion and shrinking

[Vast LWC]

Nope...not expecting a check.
But yes...my tax dollars went to them...
You do not see it that way?
Get a job, pay taxes...then maybe you can talk at my level of understanding.
But first....get a job you leach.

I'd say there's about an 80% chance that I make more money at my job than you do.

Did you notice that I was posting 'round lunch hour? In fact it's time for me to go back to work.

Later.

 

[Maple]

Here's some great links.

First from the Wall Street Journal:

UPDATE: Chicago Fed Survey Sees US GDP Up 2.5% In 4Q 2010 - WSJ.com

And then from the NY Times:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/07/business/07tarp.html?_r=1&ref=politics

How bout those apples?

It's all just government spending- a good analysis is I pay you $100 to dig a hole in my yard, then you pay me $100 to dig a hole in yours and we call if growth in GDP.

Let me see- adding to the deficit, how can I count the ways.

787 billion dollars on the no- stimulus stimulus bill
410 billion on the Omnibus bill that Bush stated he would veto.
What was the dollar amount on the bail out for the car company's, I forget, but that's in addition to the two above. Don't worry I will be back with a link.

 

[Maple]

My real concern is that those toxic assets, (Mortgage Backed Securities) that were on the books of the banks when we were told the Bank Bail out had to take place, back in september / october of 2008, are still on the books....they were NEVER bought out with the TARP money as Paulsen promised.

These toxic assets still could end up bringing our country to its knees, again....because they have not gone away....?

Not if the prices for those high risk securities are allowed to go naturally to what the market will bear.

A large part of the "need" for the bailouts was that people paid too much for high risk paper.

Very true, simliar to what happened with the S&L Crisis. I believe the Government made money on that in the end.

Here's one.

National Debt Hits Record $11 Trillion - Political Hotsheet - CBS News

 

[Oldandtired]

Nope...not expecting a check.
But yes...my tax dollars went to them...
You do not see it that way?
Get a job, pay taxes...then maybe you can talk at my level of understanding.
But first....get a job you leach.

I'd say there's about an 80% chance that I make more money at my job than you do.

Did you notice that I was posting 'round lunch hour? In fact it's time for me to go back to work.

Later.

Seeng as I do not have a "job" I will take that bet.
Those who know me on here know I am not an "employee"....but we wont go there now.

 

[Vast LWC]

Checking back in for a minute...

Hey Maple...

The actual figures don't lie. The CBO had the deficit at 1.2 Trillion dollars on Januay 7th of this year, 13 days before Mr Obama took office. That figure did not include stimulus money.

The deficit is now at 1.3 Trillion Dollars, for a total addition of 100 Billion dollars, INCLUDING stimulus money.

1.3 Trillion minus 1.2 Trillion is 100 Billion. Stimulus Spending so far this year far exceeds 100 Billion.

The GDP rose. Period. By quite a bit. Which, if I'm not mistaken, was the point of the stimulus in the first place.

And finally, your debt opinion article was from early March of this year. His figures are in fact in error, as the actual debt numbers were updated since then. Be that as it may, with 11 trillion dollars in debt, 400 Billion was the number he claimed had been added, which would be roughly equal to interest on pre-existing debt.

 

[Vast LWC]

Seeng as I do not have a "job" I will take that bet.
Those who know me on here know I am not an "employee"....but we wont go there now.

Which doesn't prove your original point.

I've served my country, in wartime, have an excellent job, and pay my taxes, in full. Which makes me decidedly NOT a "leech" on society. Far from it in fact.

 

[Maple]

Sure it is....

You get any of it back yet?

You do realize of course, that it was not governments money...it was ours....

Anyone knocking on your door with a check yet?

Dont count on it.

So... You paid some extra taxes for it then?

You personally gave the banks some money, and now you're expecting a check?

So far everyone has enjoyed lower taxes...starting way back under Dubya.

Well that's going to end when the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010.

 

[Maple]

Checking back in for a minute...

Hey Maple...

The actual figures don't lie. The CBO had the deficit at 1.2 Trillion dollars on Januay 7th of this year, 13 days before Mr Obama took office. That figure did not include stimulus money.

The deficit is now at 1.3 Trillion Dollars, for a total addition of 100 Billion dollars, INCLUDING stimulus money.

1.3 Trillion minus 1.2 Trillion is 100 Billion. Stimulus Spending so far this year far exceeds 100 Billion.

The GDP rose. Period. By quite a bit. Which, if I'm not mistaken, was the point of the stimulus in the first place.

And finally, your debt opinion article was from early March of this year. His figures are in fact in error, as the actual debt numbers were updated since then. Be that as it may, with 11 trillion dollars in debt, 400 Billion was the number he claimed had been added, which would be roughly equal to interest on pre-existing debt.

"Figure lie and liers figure." Just look at the Web site that cost 18 million tax dollars from the no stimulus stimulus bill that is counting jobs created in congressional districts that don't exist or counting jobs created that never recieved any stimulus money.

Dream on.

 

[concept]

If that's the case, why is congress looking at raising the debt ceiling...yet again?

BTW...You want to source that?

Not to mention Paloosy is talking new taxes and the cap and tax..

Yeah, it's all good here. Nothing to see...

 

[Ravi]

So... You paid some extra taxes for it then?

You personally gave the banks some money, and now you're expecting a check?

So far everyone has enjoyed lower taxes...starting way back under Dubya.

Well that's going to end when the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010.

So?

 

[Oldandtired]

Seeng as I do not have a "job" I will take that bet.
Those who know me on here know I am not an "employee"....but we wont go there now.

Which doesn't prove your original point.

I've served my country, in wartime, have an excellent job, and pay my taxes, in full. Which makes me decidedly NOT a "leech" on society. Far from it in fact.

Yes.....so I retract my leech" comment

No American hero should be called a leech.

I aplogize.

 

[Maple]

From your link:

However, recovery from the worst economic slowdown since the Great Depression will occur while the unemployment rate remains painfully high, survey participants said.


That's nothing to be too happy about because when people are unemployed they are a drain on government. Government has to extend unemployment benefits which runs up the national debt. When the consumer has no money to spend because they don't have a job, they can't promote economic growth.

Right now business's are at bare bones, they have cut employment, increased productivity, ( getting more done with fewer employees) thereby increasing their bottom lines.

This won't last forever, to me, there is no such thing as a jobless recovery, because jobs are what drives this economy and there are no jobs. The recent uptick in unemployment from 10.2 % to 10% is indicitive of retailers hiring for temporary help during the Christmas season.

 

[Maple]

Checking back in for a minute...

Hey Maple...

The actual figures don't lie. The CBO had the deficit at 1.2 Trillion dollars on Januay 7th of this year, 13 days before Mr Obama took office. That figure did not include stimulus money.

The deficit is now at 1.3 Trillion Dollars, for a total addition of 100 Billion dollars, INCLUDING stimulus money.

1.3 Trillion minus 1.2 Trillion is 100 Billion. Stimulus Spending so far this year far exceeds 100 Billion.

The GDP rose. Period. By quite a bit. Which, if I'm not mistaken, was the point of the stimulus in the first place.

And finally, your debt opinion article was from early March of this year. His figures are in fact in error, as the actual debt numbers were updated since then. Be that as it may, with 11 trillion dollars in debt, 400 Billion was the number he claimed had been added, which would be roughly equal to interest on pre-existing debt.

"Figure lie and liers figure." Just look at the Web site that cost 18 million tax dollars from the no stimulus stimulus bill that is counting jobs created in congressional districts that don't exist or counting jobs created that never recieved any stimulus money.

Dream on.

The National Deficit estimate for this year has now been reduced to 1.3 Trillion dollars.

That figure was 1.2 Trillion on January 7th of this year, before Obama even took office.

Which means that Obama has added a grand total of 100 Billion dollars to the deficit so far this year. An amount that is significantly smaller than the amount of money spent on stimulus so far this year, meaning that that the entire amount can be attributed to stimulus spending.

Other factors that are looking good:

- Unemployment has stopped rising and seems to even have decreased, from 10.2% to 10.0%. Contrast that to the Reagan administration, which had 2 1/2 Years of unemployment increases before the economy started recovering from the Carter recession, and it reached 10.4% at it's height.

- The bailouts are being recovered, almost in full, with only 42 Billion dollars lost so far, and more profits expected on the horizon to offset any additional losses, as opposed to the 700 Billion dollar figure that is much repeated by the right-wing talking heads.

- The housing market is making a recovery and home prices are on their way back up.

- Wall Street has recovered and is on it's way up in leaps and bounds, already 2000 points above what it was the day Obama was inaugurated.

- 3rd Quarter GDP was up by 2.8%, and is predicted to have another significant rise in the 4th quarter.

And this is just off the top of my head. There are many, many other factors that prove that the recovery has begun, contrary to all the prerdictions of the talking heads.

Talking Heads like Rush Limbaugh, for instance, who has continuously claimed that the recession has graduation to a full-blown depression.

Do right-wingers ever get tired of being wrong?

In the 3rd quarter 1.5% of that GDP was cash for clunkers, that's spending tax dollars, that's not real growth and as we have seen the second that program was over the car sales dropped off a cliff. The remainder of that 2.8% growth was nothing more than more government spending. People are doing funny things with the numbers, but the fact remains, in some areas in this country the REAL unemployment number is around 17%. Those are people that have been out of work so long that they are not even counted anymore.

A good trick to pay off this deficit is inflation, that's going to happen but it will cause a double dip recession, but it's happened done before and it's going to happen again.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Ok genius... then why is congress upping the debt ceiling by over 1 TRILLION $$??

What an asshat.

 

[Vast LWC]

Well that's going to end when the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010.

Right Wing water-carrier Arthur Laffer's own curve states that changes in the rate of taxation impact the incentive to earn taxable income. At the ends of the Laffer curve, both a 0% income tax rate and a 100% tax rate generate no revenue, thus a revenue maximising taxation rate lies somewhere in between.

This means that to generate maximum revenue, the tax rate should be neither too high, nor too low, relative to GDP.

Bush's tax rates were not only too low to generate premium revenue streams, but were also based on false GDP numbers due to the non-existent trillions that were supposedly produced by the financial sector, that turned out to not really exist.

Since the GDP was inflated, even the Laffer curve now demands a higher rate of taxes for maximum revenue, though Laffer, the political shill that he is, has been trying to say otherwise, in contradiction of his own theory.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Vast is obviously a demented stoner.

 

[Maple]

Well that's going to end when the Bush tax cuts expire in 2010.

Right Wing water-carrier Arthur Laffer's own curve states that changes in the rate of taxation impact the incentive to earn taxable income. At the ends of the Laffer curve, both a 0% income tax rate and a 100% tax rate generate no revenue, thus a revenue maximising taxation rate lies somewhere in between.

This means that to generate maximum revenue, the tax rate should be neither too high, nor too low, relative to GDP.

Bush's tax rates were not only too low to generate premium revenue streams, but were also based on false GDP numbers due to the non-existent trillions that were supposedly produced by the financial sector, that turned out to not really exist.

Since the GDP was inflated, even the Laffer curve now demands a higher rate of taxes for maximum revenue, though Laffer, the political shill that he is, has been trying to say otherwise, in contradiction of his own theory.

Usually with growing GDP you see real job creation, not temporary job creation, where are the jobs? With this growing GDP that you are telling us about, that would indicate that the demand for employment opportunities would increase, not decrease. It's not, how do you answer that? I don't see any real employment opportunities out there.

 

[Vast LWC]

In the 3rd quarter 1.5% of that GDP was cash for clunkers, that's spending tax dollars, that's not real growth and as we have seen the second that program was over the car sales dropped off a cliff. The remainder of that 2.8% growth was nothing more than more government spending. People are doing funny things with the numbers, but the fact remains, in some areas in this country the REAL unemployment number is around 17%. Those are people that have been out of work so long that they are not even counted anymore.

A good trick to pay off this deficit is inflation, that's going to happen but it will cause a double dip recession, but it's happened done before and it's going to happen again.

OK, the concept of a stimulus is to give the economy a shot in the arm and restart growth. The fact that the GDP rose by 2.8% means that the stimulus is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

And the fact that fourth quarter GDP growth is supposed to be around 2.5% is an even better indication. Combined with all the other factors that indicate a recovery is in fact happening, it's an excellent indication.

Plus, listen to yourself! Do you remember during the Bush administration when you people complained that the negativity of the critics would drive down the economy?

That's exacly what you're doinig right now. Do you really want the US economy to fail just to prove a political point?

 

[Vast LWC]

Usually with growing GDP you see real job creation, not temporary job creation, where are the jobs? With this growing GDP that you are telling us about, that would indicate that the demand for employment opportunities would increase, not decrease. It's not, how do you answer that? I don't see any real employment opportunities out there.

Job creation FOLLOWS growth in GDP. Which is probably why the Unemployment rate just fell .2% and is expected to continue to improve.

Slowly but surely, conditions are definitely improving. After all this was a rather serious economic situation.

Hell, as I mentioned, it took Reagan 2 1/2 years to start to recover from the Carter years, and his Unemployment rate was at 10.4% at that point. It's only been 10 MONTHS!

 

[Vast LWC]

Ok genius... then why is congress upping the debt ceiling by over 1 TRILLION $$??

What an asshat.

Because of expected increases in benefit payments for Social Security and Medicare.

Obama can't stop people from getting older, now can he?