How long with republicans play chicken with our economy?

[AVG-JOE]

Yup, the OUTRIGHT refusal of the Democrats to rein in spending and cut the deficit is of course no problem right? We can just continue to borrow 50 cents on every dollar we pay indefinitely right?

Not that I have any real partisan favorites, but it was the republicans who walked out on the negotiations because they refused to have tax increases on the table. The democrats seem amicable to looking at spending. Either it's a two way street or not.

So far, I blame the republicans if the wheels fall of the cart.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Last I heard 2 Trillion dollars in cuts had been agreed upon. The Democrats have agreed to cut some programs for the impovished. But a roll back to pre-W tax rates is unthinkable. There is no way we get out of this deficit mess by only programs for the poor.

The GOP says:
-leave the tax breaks for big oil along
-leave the tax rates for the wealthy long

BUT WE ARE GROWING BROKE!

But we can cut programs for the lower income. That seem fair to you?

Especially if we insist on spending $1 billion a MONTH fighting for 'our interests' in Afghanistan & elsewhere.

 

[Flopper]

You don't control debt by refusing to pay your debts. You control your debt by reducing spending. Forcing the government into default if it does not reduce spending makes even less sense that runaway government spending.

The Government has the income to pay the debt with out a spending increase. They just chose to use the money for other purposes.

Yes they can renege on their other debt obligations like for example" military retiree's salaries, veterans hospitals, social security payments and so forth.

Now the above retiree classes are both OWED the money, but so are the BOND HOLDERS owed money by the Federal government.

Which group to you think is more likely to get screwed by the Republicans, RGS?

The wealthy bond holders or the lttle people like you?

They could withhold stimulus payments, to Red states. Selectively pay agricultural subsidies. Shutdown federal facilities wherever they choose.

 

[AVG-JOE]

We cannot tax our way out of this debt. There simply isn't enough money out there to do it.

We have no choice but to cut spending. Once we have done that, then and only then would I agree with a very modest across the board tax hike.

If I'm going to pay more I want everyone else to pay more.

And stop giving people thousands of dollars more than they paid in on their taxes.....

Fair taxes, appropriate regulation, return to PAYGO.


Simple taxes = fair taxes. End Americas corruption problem.

 

[AVG-JOE]

We cannot tax our way out of this debt. There simply isn't enough money out there to do it.

We have no choice but to cut spending. Once we have done that, then and only then would I agree with a very modest across the board tax hike.

If I'm going to pay more I want everyone else to pay more.

And stop giving people thousands of dollars more than they paid in on their taxes.....

I disagree. Only when tax reform from the ground up is complete will we know what our economy is truly worth and until then, any spending decision simply adds to the corruption problem.

Tax reform first. Then spend according to the strict rules of PAYGO .

 

[AVG-JOE]

National debt time bomb ticks toward crisis - Business - Eye on the Economy - msnbc.com

Interest rates may begin to rise far before August. There is nothing the Republican Party would like more than to see the economy totally tank a little over year before the 2012 elections. I believe that is their plan. Tank the economy so that Obama goes. Do they know what ramifications this will hold. We could easily see double digit interest rates.

But they need to hold on to their main supporters, the rich. There CANNOT be a roll back to pre-W days for the taxes the wealthy owe. If we default, the world will drop immediately into depression, but at least the rich will still be able to eat, thanks to the republicans.

What's the first issue democrats tackled when they won the majority in the House and Senate four years ago? Fannie Mae was going broke when the new banking chairman Barney Frank told Americans it was fine. Democrats went after Steroid use in Baseball with grand well publicized senate hearings. It's reasonable to assume that democrats either didn't have a clue or they intentionally tanked the economy before the presidential election. Since Barney Frank gave an uncharacteristic "frank" statement that he had "ideological blinders" on when he lied to Americans about Fannie Mae's condition it is reasonable to assume that democrats intentionally allowed or caused Fannie to go under which led to the banking crisis which led to Americans electing Barry Obama.. Republicans have had the majority in congress for about six months and the senate still has a democrat majority. To listen to the whining on the left you would think that republicans owned the government.

Democrats are as big a bunch of selfish little bitches as are republicans?

*yawn*​

 

[AVG-JOE]

National debt time bomb ticks toward crisis - Business - Eye on the Economy - msnbc.com

Interest rates may begin to rise far before August. There is nothing the Republican Party would like more than to see the economy totally tank a little over year before the 2012 elections. I believe that is their plan. Tank the economy so that Obama goes. Do they know what ramifications this will hold. We could easily see double digit interest rates.

But they need to hold on to their main supporters, the rich. There CANNOT be a roll back to pre-W days for the taxes the wealthy owe. If we default, the world will drop immediately into depression, but at least the rich will still be able to eat, thanks to the republicans.

When will Obama stop spending like a spoiled house wife ?

When congress starts sending him smart legislation to sign instead of the bloated, lobbyist penned clap-trap he's been subjected to since he took office.

His leadership skills are lacking.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The Government has the income to pay the debt with out a spending increase. They just chose to use the money for other purposes.

In which case the government would default on contracts or other commitments. Either way, it would create a financial crisis very likely to trigger another recession for which the voters would hold Republicans responsible.

Wrong as usual. The people elected Republicans to bring down the Budget and bring down the debt. The proven absolute REFUSAL of the Democrats in the Senate and the President to cut anything and their refusal to create a budget lays squarely on them.

We have not had a budget in 3 years. The Democrats never passed one after Obama was elected and have refused every year to pass one. Including this year.

The House has moved on the issue and every attempt to creat a budget has died when the Senate absolute refuses to consider House Budget bills. And the people KNOW it.

The republican refusal to look at the unfair tax code will be their undoing, saddling us once again with democrats inability to do anything efficiently and expediently.

Peachy. Just peachy.

 

[AVG-JOE]

The Government has the income to pay the debt with out a spending increase. They just chose to use the money for other purposes.

Yes they can renege on their other debt obligations like for example" military retiree's salaries, veterans hospitals, social security payments and so forth.

Now the above retiree classes are both OWED the money, but so are the BOND HOLDERS owed money by the Federal government.

Which group to you think is more likely to get screwed by the Republicans, RGS?

The wealthy bond holders or the lttle people like you?

They can instead cut out all the Unconstitutional programs the Federal Government runs. There is no Constitutional authority for Social programs to the General public. Exactly how much would that save?

5%

Only 95% to go. Can we look at current military spending NOW?

 

[AVG-JOE]

How long with republicans play chicken with our economy?

Until Obama caves, which they know he’ll do. The GOP is reprehensible in their reckless disregard, jeopardizing the world economy for political gain – the House is like a pit bull on a bear’s lip: mindless, relentless, deadly.

I hope Obama hangs tough and calls the cowards’ bluff; unfortunately Obama’s the only adult in the process and will do the responsible thing to keep the recovery on track, even if it costs him re-election.

What Obama seems to fail to understand is that the GOP only respects force, not reason, facts, or intellect.

Posts by the right in this and other threads is evidence of that.

Across the nation, Governors and State Legislature have reined in spending in response to reduced revenue. The Big 0, Harry and Nancy saw the decreased revenues and INCREASED spending.

What's wrong with this picture?

The Dems have not submitted a budget to date for this year and missed last year, too. They have not produced anything to vote on to reduce the deficit. They are content to watch the republic go broke and do absolutely nothing to save it.

You blame the Republicans who are at least acknowledging that there is a problem.

You have been duped into believing that taking all of the wealth of the "rich" will solve the problem and it won't. The problem is the spending. Control the spending and the problem is solved.

In your own household budget, how much more do you spend than you take in? How long do you think that this can continue?

EXACTLY why we need to address the unfair document of bullshit and corruption we call a tax code first before a return to spending according to PAYGO rules.

Fair taxes, spend according to PAYGO, appropriate regulation.

 

[AVG-JOE]

Just thought I'd point out that it takes two to play chicken.

Not if you're playing against yourself using a bridge pillar or a cliff, then it's you against your own stupidity, may the better man win.

 

[Flopper]

How long with republicans play chicken with our economy?

Until Obama caves, which they know he’ll do. The GOP is reprehensible in their reckless disregard, jeopardizing the world economy for political gain – the House is like a pit bull on a bear’s lip: mindless, relentless, deadly.

I hope Obama hangs tough and calls the cowards’ bluff; unfortunately Obama’s the only adult in the process and will do the responsible thing to keep the recovery on track, even if it costs him re-election.

What Obama seems to fail to understand is that the GOP only respects force, not reason, facts, or intellect.

Posts by the right in this and other threads is evidence of that.

Across the nation, Governors and State Legislature have reined in spending in response to reduced revenue. The Big 0, Harry and Nancy saw the decreased revenues and INCREASED spending.

What's wrong with this picture?

The Dems have not submitted a budget to date for this year and missed last year, too. They have not produced anything to vote on to reduce the deficit. They are content to watch the republic go broke and do absolutely nothing to save it.

You blame the Republicans who are at least acknowledging that there is a problem.

You have been duped into believing that taking all of the wealth of the "rich" will solve the problem and it won't. The problem is the spending. Control the spending and the problem is solved.

In your own household budget, how much more do you spend than you take in? How long do you think that this can continue?

The Dems have not submitted a budget to date for this year and missed last year, too.

Wrong.

The 2011 Federal Budget was submitted to Congress by the President for approval on Feb. 1, 2010.

The 2012 Federal Budget was submitted to Congress by the President for approval on Feb. 11, 2011.

 

[SFC Ollie]

In which case the government would default on contracts or other commitments. Either way, it would create a financial crisis very likely to trigger another recession for which the voters would hold Republicans responsible.

Wrong as usual. The people elected Republicans to bring down the Budget and bring down the debt. The proven absolute REFUSAL of the Democrats in the Senate and the President to cut anything and their refusal to create a budget lays squarely on them.

We have not had a budget in 3 years. The Democrats never passed one after Obama was elected and have refused every year to pass one. Including this year.

The House has moved on the issue and every attempt to creat a budget has died when the Senate absolute refuses to consider House Budget bills. And the people KNOW it.

Voters may have elected a Republican House to bring down spending, but they certainly didn’t elect them to create a financial crisis that would trigger another recession.

The Republican controlled House will be held responsible by voters for any financial crisis resulting from the Republican plan to force spending cuts by not increasing the debt limit. House Republicans have far more to lose than the Democrats in this high-staked game of chicken. This is why Senate Democrats are not making any meaningful concessions to the House. If House Republicans don’t carry back to their constituents some meaningful concessions from Democrats, they aren’t going to be very happy but if the Republicans stand their ground and that results in a financial crises, nobody is going to be happy with them. Democrats are not under such pressure.

If Congress does not approve raising the debt limit, then the administration will have a free hand in determining where the money is to be spent. They can decide which programs get money, which contracts are paid, and which states get funds. Congress will in effect, be assigning to the administration their duty of determining how taxpayer money is to be spent.

So you have two sides bumping heads but only one side is at fault?

I don't think so, my votes will all be anti-incumbent.

And the last congress (you remember the one where both houses and the white house were democrat controlled) never even bothered to make a budget at all.

 

[hortysir]

We cannot tax our way out of this debt. There simply isn't enough money out there to do it.

We have no choice but to cut spending. Once we have done that, then and only then would I agree with a very modest across the board tax hike.

If I'm going to pay more I want everyone else to pay more.

And stop giving people thousands of dollars more than they paid in on their taxes.....

The GOP line is NO TAX INCREASES! Period! You would be flogged if Cantdoit Cantor heard you. Yes, entitlements need to be reworked, programs need to be cut, but the tax rate needs to return to pre-W rates. A President that was fighting two wars and awarded the wealthy a tax cut, should have had his head examined. This precipitated the worse economic callapse since the great depression.

Iraq, Afghan, Lybia, Yemen, Egypt, Pakistan, & Syria(?), and Obama EXTENDED these tax breaks you're bitching about.

 

[hortysir]

We cannot tax our way out of this debt. There simply isn't enough money out there to do it.

No one says otherwise.

The problem will be solved only with both tax increases and spending cuts. The problem is the GOP refuses to consider the former.

, and the DNC the latter.

 

[rdean]

How long with republicans play chicken with our economy?

As long as they want. Republicans held millions of unemployed "hostage", threatening to cut off their benefits if billionaires didn't get a "Bush tax cut extension". Does anything think the Republican leadership cares about middle class America? Seriously?

Ryan's budget proved how much they are willing to screw the middle class. And it's OK because they get all that wonderful money from a handful of billionaires who are very grateful.

 

[Flopper]

Wrong as usual. The people elected Republicans to bring down the Budget and bring down the debt. The proven absolute REFUSAL of the Democrats in the Senate and the President to cut anything and their refusal to create a budget lays squarely on them.

We have not had a budget in 3 years. The Democrats never passed one after Obama was elected and have refused every year to pass one. Including this year.

The House has moved on the issue and every attempt to creat a budget has died when the Senate absolute refuses to consider House Budget bills. And the people KNOW it.

Voters may have elected a Republican House to bring down spending, but they certainly didn’t elect them to create a financial crisis that would trigger another recession.

The Republican controlled House will be held responsible by voters for any financial crisis resulting from the Republican plan to force spending cuts by not increasing the debt limit. House Republicans have far more to lose than the Democrats in this high-staked game of chicken. This is why Senate Democrats are not making any meaningful concessions to the House. If House Republicans don’t carry back to their constituents some meaningful concessions from Democrats, they aren’t going to be very happy but if the Republicans stand their ground and that results in a financial crises, nobody is going to be happy with them. Democrats are not under such pressure.

If Congress does not approve raising the debt limit, then the administration will have a free hand in determining where the money is to be spent. They can decide which programs get money, which contracts are paid, and which states get funds. Congress will in effect, be assigning to the administration their duty of determining how taxpayer money is to be spent.

So you have two sides bumping heads but only one side is at fault?

I don't think so, my votes will all be anti-incumbent.

And the last congress (you remember the one where both houses and the white house were democrat controlled) never even bothered to make a budget at all.

The Democrats from the get go, were willing and are willing now to extend the debt limit. It is the Republicans that are saying no and putting conditions on the bill. If Republicans stand fast and this leads to a financial crisis and triggers a recession, voters are not going give a damn about the Republican's plan to cut spending.

With Democrats having little reason to give in to House Republicans, having more immediate concerns about a second recession than the deficit and House Republicans committed to major spending cuts, it is unlikely that there will be a resolution before the Aug 2nd deadline. When bond market investors realized there could be a default in treasuries and stock market investors started looking at what pulling hundreds of billion out the economy over the next six months will do to the recovery, security markets will fall like a rock and Wall Street Republicans will be all over House Republicans like flies on shit. House Republicans will have to back down eventually. The question is what concessions will Senate Democrats offer to speed up the process and avoid a possible financial meltdown.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yes they can renege on their other debt obligations like for example" military retiree's salaries, veterans hospitals, social security payments and so forth.

Now the above retiree classes are both OWED the money, but so are the BOND HOLDERS owed money by the Federal government.

Which group to you think is more likely to get screwed by the Republicans, RGS?

The wealthy bond holders or the lttle people like you?

They can instead cut out all the Unconstitutional programs the Federal Government runs. There is no Constitutional authority for Social programs to the General public. Exactly how much would that save?

5%

Only 95% to go. Can we look at current military spending NOW?

Social spending is a hell of a lot more than 5 percent.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Voters may have elected a Republican House to bring down spending, but they certainly didn’t elect them to create a financial crisis that would trigger another recession.

The Republican controlled House will be held responsible by voters for any financial crisis resulting from the Republican plan to force spending cuts by not increasing the debt limit. House Republicans have far more to lose than the Democrats in this high-staked game of chicken. This is why Senate Democrats are not making any meaningful concessions to the House. If House Republicans don’t carry back to their constituents some meaningful concessions from Democrats, they aren’t going to be very happy but if the Republicans stand their ground and that results in a financial crises, nobody is going to be happy with them. Democrats are not under such pressure.

If Congress does not approve raising the debt limit, then the administration will have a free hand in determining where the money is to be spent. They can decide which programs get money, which contracts are paid, and which states get funds. Congress will in effect, be assigning to the administration their duty of determining how taxpayer money is to be spent.

So you have two sides bumping heads but only one side is at fault?

I don't think so, my votes will all be anti-incumbent.

And the last congress (you remember the one where both houses and the white house were democrat controlled) never even bothered to make a budget at all.

The Democrats from the get go, were willing and are willing now to extend the debt limit. It is the Republicans that are saying no and putting conditions on the bill. If Republicans stand fast and this leads to a financial crisis and triggers a recession, voters are not going give a damn about the Republican's plan to cut spending.

With Democrats having little reason to give in to House Republicans, having more immediate concerns about a second recession than the deficit and House Republicans committed to major spending cuts, it is unlikely that there will be a resolution before the Aug 2nd deadline. When bond market investors realized there could be a default in treasuries and stock market investors started looking at what pulling hundreds of billion out the economy over the next six months will do to the recovery, security markets will fall like a rock and Wall Street Republicans will be all over House Republicans like flies on shit. House Republicans will have to back down eventually. The question is what concessions will Senate Democrats offer to speed up the process and avoid a possible financial meltdown.

Of course the Democrats want an increase they do NOT want any cuts. ANd that is the problem, when presented with a measly 60 billion NON cut cuts they refused. Now with a need for real cuts they continue to refuse demanding instead more spending. And the President? Read what he has requested as his budget.

 

[AVG-JOE]

They can instead cut out all the Unconstitutional programs the Federal Government runs. There is no Constitutional authority for Social programs to the General public. Exactly how much would that save?

5%

Only 95% to go. Can we look at current military spending NOW?

Social spending is a hell of a lot more than 5 percent.

While that may be true, military spending still far outweighs social spending, especially if you don't include Social Security, because it is paid for with a dedicated tax from its very own trust fund and therefore does not count as social 'spending'. There is an argument also to remove Medicare from the equation because it's healthcare spending and you're left with about 5% for welfare.

That's what you're really talking about with 'social spending', eh? Welfare?

The fact is, republicans and democrats alike prefer giving out welfare in the form of tax credits because then they don't have to call it 'welfare spending'.

Simple and fair taxes FIRST. Then spend according to PAYGO and apply appropriate regulation.

Good government is NOT rocket science.