How is it Congress can have a chaplain....

[Penelope]

Public schools should cut off all connection to family…
And just get it over with. That is their intention

I'm more of the opinion that families should cut off all connections to public schools.

I am totally for all public schools.

 

[OldLady]

plain and simple--this is a waste of $$$$$$$$$

Doesn't help all the folks who want to celebrate the holidays or even put up a 10 Commandments monument in front of their state house. The question is, how come the Congress can get away with it and NO ONE ELSE CAN?

 

[Penelope]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

I am all for the ACLU, headed by mainly jews by the way, but thank goodness we have the ACLU.

 

[Marion Morrison]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

I am all for the ACLU, headed by mainly jews by the way, but thank goodness we have the ACLU.

Why?

 

[Rustic]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

Although it does not say separation of church and state anywhere in the constitution. I think there should be a separation... neither should have absolutely any say on the other.
Secularism and faith are like oil and water… Any sort of interaction, results In horrific things.
Getting along is way overrated...

 

[Tresha91203]

.......

I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.

I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.


In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post

Ah, you have posed the question that has no answer. Well done.

I do that all the time, hope you get better results.

I have two contenders so far: What do you think of them?
-Misinterpretation of the Federal grant restrictions by an overly cautious Paper Pusher in Augusta, or
-None of this banning religion in Federally funded programs comes from the Feds; it is all a function of the Courts.

I bet it all stems from litigation or insurance against litigation.

 

[OldLady]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

ACLU ought to be tarred, feathered, and rode out on a rail when they show up in a town.

They do what they are paid to do. It is the Courts that decide. As Moon pointed out, the fact that (supposedly) the ACLU can't sue Congress for their chaplain is why they have been able to continue to enjoy a cozy prayer and yes a GINORMOUS Christmas tree at the White House (well I know that's not Congress). I just think if they can do it, everyone should be able to do it. Or if there is good reason why everyone SHOULDN'T be able to do it, then neither should they. Fair is just fair, in my simple way of thinking.

 

[OldLady]

Odd that a secular organization like a public school should find a secular holiday like Christmas so objectionable.

Christmas is now just a holiday for most, and the stores love it, but she said its not a parochial school, so its secular, I agree with the OP in her stance that we should not have Chaplin's in Congress.

That's not what I said, Penelope. I just questioned the double standard.

 

[Penelope]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

I am all for the ACLU, headed by mainly jews by the way, but thank goodness we have the ACLU.

Why?

Simple I believe in civil rights as long as its not intrusive on others or cause any harm to others.

 

[Kondor3]

I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.

I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.


In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post

Because our Republic has dengerated into Rich Man's Do-As-I-Say-Not-As-I-Do Land?

 

[Pogo]

they pay him??!!!
that's a waste of tax $$$$$$
get rid of that crap right now.....
Chaplain of the United States House of Representatives - Wikipedia
https://chaplain.house.gov/chaplaincy/ChaplainHistoryCRS.pdf

The Senate Chaplain’s Office has a budget of $436,886 this year.

The salaries alone for the three in the House chaplain’s office top $345,000 according to InsideGov. Add expenses and Congress is spending $800,000 every year on its opening prayers.

goddamn!! get rid of this crap now!!!
Wasteful spending: Congress pays clergy $66,000/hour to pray

Salary is $170,000 a year, is what I heard. Not outside the norm on the beltway.
My beef isn't about the money. Well, not THAT money.
Why can't 4 year olds in a Federally funded preschool program celebrate Christmas while these jokers in Washington are praying it up every time they open a session? I saw the Chaplain opening an awards ceremony for some Puerto Rican military vets once, too--first time I knew they were getting away with this. They're busy folks, blessing all the Great Works of the elected, hey?

the $$$$$ is my biggest beef
but you have a great point on the Christmas deal

Christmas decorations can be seen as a secular tradition, which it certainly is in this culture, as well as a religious one. The hypothetial classroom or other venue that puts up trees, lights, balls etc are actually following more of a pagan tradition than an organized religion.

But the manger scenes, though!

The manger scenes, indeed. That's mythology right there, certainly a legitimate education topic and a teachable moment to use a familiar icon to explore the similar mythologies of Horus and Attis and Krishna et al, to demonstrate the common threads in the world and offer perspective. You know --- all those histories you and I weren't taught and had to go find out for ourselves.

And it nicely seques to a lesson on how we put up lights on our houses as sympathetic magic to bring the sunlight back, and how we decorate with evergreens to symbolize the promise of the returning Spring.

 

[Penelope]

Odd that a secular organization like a public school should find a secular holiday like Christmas so objectionable.

Christmas is now just a holiday for most, and the stores love it, but she said its not a parochial school, so its secular, I agree with the OP in her stance that we should not have Chaplin's in Congress.

That's not what I said, Penelope. I just questioned the double standard.

You are right, you didn't say that. I say get rid of the Chaplin, I should clarify , and do not replace him with an Evan.

 

[Rustic]

Public schools should cut off all connection to family…
And just get it over with. That is their intention

I'm more of the opinion that families should cut off all connections to public schools.

I am totally for all public schools.

That is fine, just don’t expect anyone else to agree with you...
To force other people’s kids into the collective is... well… Cowardly at best

 

[OldLady]

.......

I don't care if the House and Senate have a chaplain, or if they begin each session prostrating before Gozer the Destructor. What I want to know is how the House and Senate have been able to get away with praying and paying a man of the cloth since 17-something, when the Pre-K at one of our local elementary schools, which is funded entirely by Federal grants, could not decorate with so much as a Christmas tree or Santa or stocking, or participate in the Christmas parties that the rest of the school were involved in. All because the Pre-K was funded by a Federal Grant.

I would appreciate a serious answer to that. Every time I hear about the chaplain for Congress I think of those poor Pre-K kids with their window covered over so they wouldn't see all the other kids celebrating Christmas. True story.


In a reversal, Speaker Ryan says the House chaplain will remain in his post

Ah, you have posed the question that has no answer. Well done.

I do that all the time, hope you get better results.

I have two contenders so far: What do you think of them?
-Misinterpretation of the Federal grant restrictions by an overly cautious Paper Pusher in Augusta, or
-None of this banning religion in Federally funded programs comes from the Feds; it is all a function of the Courts.

I bet it all stems from litigation or insurance against litigation.

Litigation because the school is mixing religion and government? If there was an overly cautious Paper Pusher in Augusta who made this decision for our 4 year olds, I'm sure you're right--that is exactly why it was done that way. Of course, no one in our community would sue. It would have to be someone from away, and we're so small that even people from away rarely know what is going on here.

 

[Rustic]

plain and simple--this is a waste of $$$$$$$$$

Doesn't help all the folks who want to celebrate the holidays or even put up a 10 Commandments monument in front of their state house. The question is, how come the Congress can get away with it and NO ONE ELSE CAN?

Well put your money where your mouth is, if there is going to be a separation, there better be a total separation…
No one side should have any control over the other side whatsoever…

 

[Rustic]

The hypocrites in government say a prayer before sessions, erect a Christmas tree on public property and sometimes they swear on a Bible. Ordinary people would be sued by the ACLU for having a Christmas tree in a public square or expelled from school for saying a prayer or carrying a Bible. That's how screwed up things have gotten during half a century of mostly democrat administrations and chickenshit republicans.

ACLU ought to be tarred, feathered, and rode out on a rail when they show up in a town.

They do what they are paid to do. It is the Courts that decide. As Moon pointed out, the fact that (supposedly) the ACLU can't sue Congress for their chaplain is why they have been able to continue to enjoy a cozy prayer and yes a GINORMOUS Christmas tree at the White House (well I know that's not Congress). I just think if they can do it, everyone should be able to do it. Or if there is good reason why everyone SHOULDN'T be able to do it, then neither should they. Fair is just fair, in my simple way of thinking.

Must I repeat myself? While it does not say anything about separation of church and state at all in the constitution. I think there should be an absolute separation… Were one has no power whatsoever over the other.

 

[Pogo]

there have been some challenges
they pay him??!!!
that's a waste of tax $$$$$$
get rid of that crap right now.....
Chaplain of the United States House of Representatives - Wikipedia
https://chaplain.house.gov/chaplaincy/ChaplainHistoryCRS.pdf

The Senate Chaplain’s Office has a budget of $436,886 this year.

The salaries alone for the three in the House chaplain’s office top $345,000 according to InsideGov. Add expenses and Congress is spending $800,000 every year on its opening prayers.

goddamn!! get rid of this crap now!!!
Wasteful spending: Congress pays clergy $66,000/hour to pray
I don't care if you're a believer or not---this is a waste of $$$$$$$

Besides which, if some Congresscritter(s) desired to pray, why would they need to pay somebody to lead it? Apparently they know not how it's done and can't do it on their own, which sure doesn't make much of a case for its value.

Indeed there can be only one reason for setting up a "leader" in what should be private meditation, and that is to engender Groupthink. And that's antidemocratic.

I know better than to argue with you, but really? Prayer is Groupthink? Oh, Pogo, I hope you're being sarcastic.

No, not at all. Religion is a private matter. Once it starts electing "leaders" everybody in the "flock" has to "follow" --- that's groupthink. In fact now that you bring it up I see a direct parallel with another groupthink that prescribes everybody has to stand up for a national anthem at a sports event. Same thing.

IOW, you don't like American traditions and seek to remove/replace them with bullshit. Got it!

Link?
Quote?
Anything?

 

[OldLady]

No, I do not think you are lying but as a taxpayer I do not want my tax dollars fully funding a daycare.

My understanding is that it is a Pre-K, not a daycare. I realize sometimes they have extended hours that turn them into defacto daycares, but I have been told it was a Pre-K program.
And why would you not want your tax dollars funding a daycare, even if that were the case? Having children safely housed with professionals in charge so that parents can afford to go to work is a good thing in my book. Nowhere near enough of it,imo. If there were a whole lot more of them, you would see the welfare rolls REALLY dwindle. Trust me on that.

Because I know a couple daycare owners and they get to write off everything, and didn't we just give a huge tax benefit of 6 grand per child a year? A pre k program is the same as a daycare. What is the difference? Most of our prop tax is going to schools.

You're way beyond me, Penelope. I just think, as someone who used to be a single mom struggling to pay for daycare so I could work to support us and giving the daycare 1/3 of my take home pay, that a lot of welfare moms have figured it all out and it pays to stay home if there aren't affordable daycare programs. A pre-K program is not a daycare in that a pre-K is structured pretty much the way Kindergarten used to be in my day. Now they want kids to know all that BEFORE they enter Kindergarten. Daycares just give 'em toys, lunch and a nap.

 

[Rustic]

Odd that a secular organization like a public school should find a secular holiday like Christmas so objectionable.

Christmas is now just a holiday for most, and the stores love it, but she said its not a parochial school, so its secular, I agree with the OP in her stance that we should not have Chaplin's in Congress.

That's not what I said, Penelope. I just questioned the double standard.

Double standard? The double standard is secularism has control over faith do to the federal government.
Any sort of morality does not exist in the federal government/deep state.

 

[Kondor3]

Proposed 28th Amendment to the Constitution of the United States:

"Congress shall make no law that applies to the citizens of the United States which does not also equally apply to all members of Congress."