How do we Know Human are Causing Climate Change?

[EMH]

Bingo. You finally got it right. Heat escapes into space by outgoing radiation.
However heat escapes both day and night with nighttime radiation only slightly less than daytime.

We have measured how much incoming radiation is absorbed in the ground from the sun - day and night, (taking into account cloud cover, and reflection.)

We know the average temperature of the earth, roughly 15°C.
From the Stephan-Boltzmann law we know how much outgoing radiation the surface of the earth emits back to space.

We find that the outgoing radiation at the surface is so high that the sun wouldn't be able to keep up with it and the earth would drop to -20°C and the oceans would freeze.

However if the earth's outgoing radiation is from the colder top of the troposphere, it will be about the same as the sun's incoming radiation and the earth will be, on average, in equilibrium.

Do you agree with this science. Note that this is just very simple science that all legitimate scientists believe even if they are GW deniers. I have said nothing about green house gasses.

There is zero evidence that any of that has changed for billions of years.

Let's try something that DOES CHANGE...

In fact, Antarctica is much colder than the Arctic, - Google. I've seen 48F and 60F as the average difference, so let's settle for 50F. Air that passes over Antarctica cools 50F more than air that passes over Arctic. Air that passes over large ice age glacier LOSES HEAT as it does so.

So the AMOUNT OF ICE on a given polar circle directly cools both air and water, significantly. Hence it is ICE that is the key variable, and the amount of ice is 100% correlated with LAND NEAR THE POLES

Antarctica 90%
Greenland 7%
Ellesmere 0.3%

If Earth had two polar oceans, it would have no ice, and that by itself would greatly increase air and water temperature, since the 9 million cubic miles of ice on Earth today would no longer be there to cool both.

 

[westwall]

There is zero evidence that any of that has changed for billions of years.

Let's try something that DOES CHANGE...

In fact, Antarctica is much colder than the Arctic, - Google. I've seen 48F and 60F as the average difference, so let's settle for 50F. Air that passes over Antarctica cools 50F more than air that passes over Arctic. Air that passes over large ice age glacier LOSES HEAT as it does so.

So the AMOUNT OF ICE on a given polar circle directly cools both air and water, significantly. Hence it is ICE that is the key variable, and the amount of ice is 100% correlated with LAND NEAR THE POLES

Antarctica 90%
Greenland 7%
Ellesmere 0.3%

If Earth had two polar oceans, it would have no ice, and that by itself would greatly increase air and water temperature, since the 9 million cubic miles of ice on Earth today would no longer be there to cool both.

The fossil record shows that Antarctica was moving around quite a bit 55 to 120 million years ago.

 

[Wuwei]

There is zero evidence that any of that has changed for billions of years.

What do you mean by "any". The whole of my post about incoming and outgoing radiation? If so, I agree.
However I didn't refer to ice specifically, I referred to the radiation dynamics of the entire planet.

 

[EMH]

The fossil record shows that Antarctica was moving around quite a bit 55 to 120 million years ago

Correct, there are 70 million year old dinosaur fossils, since Antarctica was not on the South Pole 70 million years ago and hence not in ICE AGE...

We know where Antarctica was 125 million years ago, attached to South Africa. Then it broke off... still attached to South America, until about 20 million years ago... its tectonic footprints are well defined on the bottom of the ocean....


Read the OP

The lies of Milankovich Cycles aka McBullshit - where was land mass Antarctica 70 million years ago

McBullshit claims Antarctica has been on the South Pole forever, it never moved at all. And, while it is on the South Pole, it has rapidly gone from ice age to tropical paradise and back over and over.... a Dennis Quaid theory for sure... We know that Antarctica has 70 million year old...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[EMH]

What do you mean by "any". The whole of my post about incoming and outgoing radiation? If so, I agree.
However I didn't refer to ice specifically, I referred to the radiation dynamics of the entire planet.

This is because

YOU WANT TO AVOID THE ISSUE OF ICE


because you are a wormy follower of the Co2 FRAUD and you do not like TRUTH....

 

[otto105]

China is now the leader in renewables. Including wind and solar. They understand that fossil fuels are running out and they are attempting to prepare for that, as much as anyone could.

The country is also a paying an environmental price for its pollution in terms fouled land, water and health impacts on it’s population.

 

[westwall]

Correct, there are 70 million year old dinosaur fossils, since Antarctica was not on the South Pole 70 million years ago and hence not in ICE AGE...

We know where Antarctica was 125 million years ago, attached to South Africa. Then it broke off... still attached to South America, until about 20 million years ago... its tectonic footprints are well defined on the bottom of the ocean....


Read the OP

The lies of Milankovich Cycles aka McBullshit - where was land mass Antarctica 70 million years ago

McBullshit claims Antarctica has been on the South Pole forever, it never moved at all. And, while it is on the South Pole, it has rapidly gone from ice age to tropical paradise and back over and over.... a Dennis Quaid theory for sure... We know that Antarctica has 70 million year old...

www.usmessageboard.com

North America was in an ice age 2 million years ago. Continental ice was a Mile thick above my house.

What happened?

 

[EMH]

North America was in an ice age 2 million years ago. Continental ice was a Mike thick above my house.

What happened?

The North American plate is moving to the west-southwest at about 2.3 cm (~1 inch) per year driven by the spreading center that created the Atlantic Ocean, the Mid Atlantic Ridge.


North America, except Ellesmere Island, moved out of the 600 miles to the pole zone. Ellesmere has 0.3% of Earth ice today.

Antarctica 90%
Greenland 7%
Ellesmere 0.3%

the rest is sea ice and mountain tops. The melting of the North American Ice Age began when what is now water surrounding Ellesmere changed from ice to water.

What one person estimates North America looked like 50 million years ago before the Ice Age.

Inaccurate for certain, Greenland and NA were never attached, but the point is that the North American Ice Age dug out what is now Ellesmere Island and the others, and did so with glacier. When that glacier melted, it made Ellesmere an "island," and it shut off the "glacier manufacturing system" that is the 600 miles to the pole zone. Hence, a giant chunk of ice, beyond 600 miles to the pole, was now no longer getting "reinforcements..." so it melted. Estimated time for 5+ million cubic miles of ice 2.5 miles thick in its thickest parts... 3 million years.

 

[EMH]

North America was in an ice age 2 million years ago

The Co2 FRAUD had to change that truth. Busted for Greenland freezing while North America was thawing, the Co2 FRAUD had to change North American Ice Age into Milankovich Cycles aka McBullshit, which now claims that the 2.5 mile thick Laurentide Ice Sheet was only 75k years old....

Now compare that to ice core records from Greenland (130k halfway down, ice one mile thick) and Antarctica (800k not even halfway down, 2.5 miles thick) and yeah, the 75k number is McBullshit

How old were the 2.5 mile thick glaciers covering Chicago in the past 20k-5 million years?

This is where the climate debate is now stuck. Every piece of land within 600 miles of a pole is in ice age, everything outside of that is not. Nobody has attempted to dispute that. It is the clear truth of Earth today. Milankovitch Cycles, which I call McBullshit Cycles, take a very...

www.usmessageboard.com

 

[Wuwei]

This is because

YOU WANT TO AVOID THE ISSUE OF ICE


because you are a wormy follower of the Co2 FRAUD and you do not like TRUTH....

I referred to the radiation dynamics of the entire planet. Ice included. I didn't avoid the issue of ice. You didn't answer if you agree with the balance of radiation that I posted earlier which concludes,

We find that the outgoing radiation at the surface is so high that the sun wouldn't be able to keep up with it and the earth would drop to -20°C and the oceans would freeze.​

​

However if the earth's outgoing radiation is from the colder top of the troposphere, it will be about the same as the sun's incoming radiation and the earth will be, on average, in equilibrium.​

 

[westwall]

The Co2 FRAUD had to change that truth. Busted for Greenland freezing while North America was thawing, the Co2 FRAUD had to change North American Ice Age into Milankovich Cycles aka McBullshit, which now claims that the 2.5 mile thick Laurentide Ice Sheet was only 75k years old....

Now compare that to ice core records from Greenland (130k halfway down, ice one mile thick) and Antarctica (800k not even halfway down, 2.5 miles thick) and yeah, the 75k number is McBullshit

How old were the 2.5 mile thick glaciers covering Chicago in the past 20k-5 million years?

This is where the climate debate is now stuck. Every piece of land within 600 miles of a pole is in ice age, everything outside of that is not. Nobody has attempted to dispute that. It is the clear truth of Earth today. Milankovitch Cycles, which I call McBullshit Cycles, take a very...

www.usmessageboard.com

I have no clue where you get your nonsense. I live in the Sierra Nevada mountains.

Two million years ago there was a mile high thick slab of ice right where my home is.

This is a well known fact.

It is likewise a well known fact that there was a continental ice sheet well over a mile thick that extended far down into south Dakota, and across the Great Lakes region.

Once again this is well known.

CO2 has nothing to do with the ending of the ice age.

So what did drive it.

 

[EMH]

I referred to the radiation dynamics of the entire planet. Ice included. I didn't avoid the issue of ice. You didn't answer if you agree with the balance of radiation that I posted earlier which concludes,

We find that the outgoing radiation at the surface is so high that the sun wouldn't be able to keep up with it and the earth would drop to -20°C and the oceans would freeze.​

​

However if the earth's outgoing radiation is from the colder top of the troposphere, it will be about the same as the sun's incoming radiation and the earth will be, on average, in equilibrium.​

All bullshit.

The atmosphere and hence Co2 is not the cause of Earth climate change.

During the past

10k
20k
50k
1 million

years, take your pick...

Greenland froze while North America thawed


Now explain how that happened....

 

[EMH]

I have no clue where you get your nonsense. I live in the Sierra Nevada mountains.

Two million years ago there was a mile high thick slab of ice right where my home is.

This is a well known fact.

It is likewise a well known fact that there was a continental ice sheet well over a mile thick that extended far down into south Dakota, and across the Great Lakes region.

Once again this is well known.

CO2 has nothing to do with the ending of the ice age.

So what did drive it.

Try again to read... the entire OP... which you cannot refute one word of...

Apparently we really need a "debate" over the term ICE AGE because y'all are all wrong...

What is an ICE AGE? Most apparently still believe it is a terrifying horror movie event where Earth all at once freezes up. The data has never supported such a scenario. Since 2010, there has been a massive effort to re-write Earth climate history into a series of rapid "glaciations" and ice...

www.usmessageboard.com

and your claim that there was mile thick ice there is bullshit too. Mountain glaciers for sure, but nothing close to 1 mile thick, that is McBullshit.

 

[westwall]

Try again to read... the entire OP... which you cannot refute one word of...

Apparently we really need a "debate" over the term ICE AGE because y'all are all wrong...

What is an ICE AGE? Most apparently still believe it is a terrifying horror movie event where Earth all at once freezes up. The data has never supported such a scenario. Since 2010, there has been a massive effort to re-write Earth climate history into a series of rapid "glaciations" and ice...

www.usmessageboard.com

and your claim that there was mile thick ice there is bullshit too. Mountain glaciers for sure, but nothing close to 1 mile thick, that is McBullshit.

No, it is well documented. Like I said, you post stuff that has no basis in reality.

 

[EMH]

it is well documented

meaning it is PARROTED McBULLSHIT, the same BULLSHIT that claims 2.5 mile thick ice in Laurentide ice sheet was only 75k years old....

 

[Wuwei]

All bullshit.

The atmosphere and hence Co2 is not the cause of Earth climate change.

During the past

10k
20k
50k
1 million

years, take your pick...

Greenland froze while North America thawed


Now explain how that happened....

I was not referring to climate change. I was referring just to simple atmospheric physics that all scientists agree with.
If you want to call it all bullshit, then you disagree with all principles of thermodynamics. That's sad.
Since you don't believe science you will never have any idea how Greenland froze while North America thawed. Never.

 

[EMH]

Since you don't believe science you will never have any idea how Greenland froze while North America thawed.

Science is about truth, and you don't have any.

You cannot explain how Greenland froze while North America thawed, because you focus on that which is bullshit = Co2.

 

[Crick]

Science is about truth, and you don't have any.

You cannot explain how Greenland froze while North America thawed, because you focus on that which is bullshit = Co2.

He's doing precisely what he says he's doing. You need to get help. Make an appointment.

 

[EMH]

He's doing precisely what he says he's doing. You need to get help. Make an appointment.

Why can't you explain why Greenland froze while North America thawed at the same time?


How much has the US taxpayer paid you to "practice climate science" and YOU STILL CANNOT ANSWER THAT QUESTION???

 

[Grumblenuts]

^