How Can Anyone Defend This...

[Foxfyre]

Those hating Israel here can't seem to bring themselves to condemn those who committed a horrible murder but seem to be justifying it because Israel is so evil? And frankly, that's really incomprehensible if you want to be objective about this.

I think everyone here condemns this murder, even the Palestinians have condemned it

No Palestinian faction has claimed to have carried out the attack. Palestinian leaders in Ramallah have condemned the killing of children, and the Fatah-affiliated Al-Aqsa Brigades released a statement Tuesday afternoon saying they "oppose the targeting of civilians and killing of children no matter what the pretext may be."

Maan News Agency: Itamar settlers erect new illegal outpost

Condemning the murders but not the murderers are two different things though. Several here seem to be doing their damndest to shift the blame to Israel instead of holding the murderers in contempt.

 

[Jos]

Those hating Israel here can't seem to bring themselves to condemn those who committed a horrible murder but seem to be justifying it because Israel is so evil? And frankly, that's really incomprehensible if you want to be objective about this.

I think everyone here condemns this murder, even the Palestinians have condemned it

No Palestinian faction has claimed to have carried out the attack. Palestinian leaders in Ramallah have condemned the killing of children, and the Fatah-affiliated Al-Aqsa Brigades released a statement Tuesday afternoon saying they "oppose the targeting of civilians and killing of children no matter what the pretext may be."

Maan News Agency: Itamar settlers erect new illegal outpost

Condemning the murders but not the murderers are two different things though. Several here seem to be doing their damndest to shift the blame to Israel instead of holding the murderers in contempt.

We dont know who the murderer is do we?

 

[Dot Com]

The consensus view of the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law.[39] The Fourth Geneva Convention includes statements such as "the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies".[40]

At present, the predominant view of the international community, as reflected in numerous UN resolutions, regards the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights as a violation of international law.[41][42][43] UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal[44] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice

International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've posted this 2X already yet Ropey doesn't seem to notice it:
West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Settlements and international law
Israeli settlements on the West Bank beyond the Green Line border are considered by the United Nations among others to be illegal under international law.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements

The consensus view of the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Bank#Legal_status

Legal status

The United Nations Security Council,[65] the United Nations General Assembly,[66] the United States,[67] the EU,[68] the International Court of Justice,[69] and the International Committee of the Red Cross[70] refer to it as Palestinian territory occupied by Israel. General Assembly resolution 58/292 (17 May 2004) affirmed that the Palestinian people have the right to sovereignty over the area.

 

[P F Tinmore]

 

[Foxfyre]

Again it isn't who is strongest. It is who is in the wrong.

It is wrong to target civilians. It is not wrong to retaliate against those who target civilians.

The police always have more authority, fire power, and ability to retaliate than do the criminals. So you condemn them too just because they have more ability to defend the innocent than do those committing crimes?

Unlike the Palestinan thugs, the Israelis do try very hard to pull their punches and not intentionally target civilians. But when the Palestinian cowardly thugs intentionally put their rocket launchers etc. in civilian neighborhoods for the specific purpose of drawing Israeli fire to those neighborhoods, who is the guilty party then?

All the Palestinians have to do is declare peace, police their own thugs, and honestly try to live in peace with the Israelis. When they do that, I believe they will be in absolutely no danger of any kind from the Israelis, will benefit from shared trade, and, when the Israelis believe it is safe, the fences and walls will come down.

If the Israelis put away their weapons however and extend a hand of friendship to the Palestinians, they will be destroyed.

That is the fact of the matter.

 

[P F Tinmore]

Again it isn't who is strongest. It is who is in the wrong.

It is wrong to target civilians. It is not wrong to retaliate against those who target civilians.

The police always have more authority, fire power, and ability to retaliate than do the criminals. So you condemn them too just because they have more ability to defend the innocent than do those committing crimes?

Unlike the Palestinan thugs, the Israelis do try very hard to pull their punches and not intentionally target civilians. But when the Palestinian cowardly thugs intentionally put their rocket launchers etc. in civilian neighborhoods for the specific purpose of drawing Israeli fire to those neighborhoods, who is the guilty party then?

All the Palestinians have to do is declare peace, police their own thugs, and honestly try to live in peace with the Israelis. When they do that, I believe they will be in absolutely no danger of any kind from the Israelis, will benefit from shared trade, and, when the Israelis believe it is safe, the fences and walls will come down.

If the Israelis put away their weapons however and extend a hand of friendship to the Palestinians, they will be destroyed.

That is the fact of the matter.

Israel is a foreign invasion of Palestine. It has always been the aggressor. The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Israel came to take over their country.

 

[GHook93]

The so called "settlements" are primarily constructed by PALESTINIANS. They are a huge source of LIVELIHOOD for many Palestinians. The people who complained the most and were the most effected by the freeze where the Palestinian labors, construction workers and construction supply companies! They were mad about it!

The Palestinian economic boom in Judea and Samaria are SOLELY because of the Jewish Cities being built there! Without them, they would be in economic peril! Commerce and trade is NOT uncommon amongst the Palestinians and "settlers."

And only a true antisemite like you, would say and take the stance that any Palestinian State would have to be Jew-Free. In fact, if a future Palestinian state were to include these Jewish cities, then they would be lucky that established communities, infrastructures and tax paying residents were already in place! Schools, electricity, apartment buildings, pumping, commerical stores, robust economies, industrial buildings, manufacturing plants, roads, police stations, fire departments, hospitals, water towers, water treatment sites and most technologically advanced farms on the planet are located in these cities. The Palestinians should embrace this!

It's not a unique idea. When the Soviet States broke apart from Russia, the Russians that moved in Ukraine, Georgia, Poland etc and purchase land and made it their homes prior to succession were not forced to move. They became citizens of the country they were in! In fact Poland, Ukraine, Georgia etc all have large Russian minorities!

Funny how liberal scumbags like you preach how great diversity is, unless its the Jews and Christians trying to live in Arab or Muslim countries. That is bad in your liberal eyes! You're a hack a fraud!

Loading...
It's a startling fact: The workers building Israel's West Bank settlements have generally been Palestinians.

Now comes a twist: earlier this year, the Palestinian government passed a law forbidding work in the settlements — and its determination to stamp out the phenomenon is being sorely tested in recent weeks, as a settlement building boomlet has emerged in the West Bank.

With the Palestinian economy facing double-digit unemployment, the issue has sparked some soul-searching and debate.

Abu Libdeh said the ban — which imposes fines of up to $14,000 and jail time of up to five years for violators...the government is holding off while it searches for ways to help workers switch jobs.

About 21,000 Palestinians currently work in settlements, either in construction, agriculture or industry.

Their ability to return to the settlements in recent years — after a period of violence from 2000-2005 which saw the two peoples separated almost completely — has been key to the mini-revival of the Palestinian economy.

Dozens of them mixed cement, laid bricks and arranged red tiles on the roofs of 48 new apartments.

Most work eight-hour shifts five days a week and earn between $35 and $55 per day — which is somewhat less than what Israeli workers would cost, but more than what is generally available to Palestinians in the West Bank. There, similar jobs usually pay $25 per day in the Palestinian cities and $15 in rural areas.

Sitting inside a yellow tractor, Abed Abdel-Karim, 41, said he'd been working in settlements for 15 years. "but it's not my job to fix it ... I'm married and have kids. I don't want to be a millionaire. I just want to pay my bills."

Israel calls it disputed territory and says it can build there until a peace deal is reached.

Now there are hundreds of new units in various stages of construction — and Palestinians, just as before, are at the heart of the enterprise, despite the ban.

At the construction site in Ariel, 32-year-old Abdel-Jaber Bouzia was doubtful any of these schemes would work. He did not fear the legal ban on working in the settlements and could hardly imagine their removal.

"Maybe after a million years," he said, shoveling sand into a rumbling cement mixer. "Or on Judgment Day."

What do the settlers say?

Settler spokeswoman Aliza Herbst noted that...it remains attractively cheap and abundant.

She said she supports the Palestinian government's efforts because she would prefer employers were freed of the financial temptation and hired Jews instead.

"I hope they succeed," she said.

 

[PoliticalChic]

How unusual for you to post the actual events, in order of importance in the conflict...

1. First, the Jewish people are bombed by the aggressors....

2. And then, finally, they respond, causing injury and death as a result of being attacked.
That is, of course, the usual timelines vis-a-vis democracies vs. totalitarian nations.

Would I be correct in assuming that you have finally seen the light...that if the bombings would cease, so would the responses?

If so, Bravo!

 

[Foxfyre]

Again it isn't who is strongest. It is who is in the wrong.

It is wrong to target civilians. It is not wrong to retaliate against those who target civilians.

The police always have more authority, fire power, and ability to retaliate than do the criminals. So you condemn them too just because they have more ability to defend the innocent than do those committing crimes?

Unlike the Palestinan thugs, the Israelis do try very hard to pull their punches and not intentionally target civilians. But when the Palestinian cowardly thugs intentionally put their rocket launchers etc. in civilian neighborhoods for the specific purpose of drawing Israeli fire to those neighborhoods, who is the guilty party then?

All the Palestinians have to do is declare peace, police their own thugs, and honestly try to live in peace with the Israelis. When they do that, I believe they will be in absolutely no danger of any kind from the Israelis, will benefit from shared trade, and, when the Israelis believe it is safe, the fences and walls will come down.

If the Israelis put away their weapons however and extend a hand of friendship to the Palestinians, they will be destroyed.

That is the fact of the matter.

Israel is a foreign invasion of Palestine. It has always been the aggressor. The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Israel came to take over their country.

Do you really believe this stuff when you write it? You do know that it was British territory, donated by Great Britian and authorized by the United Nations, that was the teensy plot of land designated as a refuge for Jews displaced in other countries through no fault of their own? Further at the time the Israelis were more than willing to coexist peacefully with the Palestinians living there. It was THE PALESTINIANS who chose to flee because the Arabs intended to attack the new nation and then they intended to come back. Well, the Israelis won that war and all other such wars afterwards. Those Palestinians and their progeny who didn't flee are now mostly happy, prosperous, citizens of Israel. Well over a million of them in a tiny nation.

 

[P F Tinmore]

The "one state solution" envisioned by people like Ali Abunimah and Ghada Karmi would mean that the Jews would remain in their current homes or move freely wherever they want.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

 

[GHook93]

The "one state solution" envisioned by people like Ali Abunimah and Ghada Karmi would mean that the Jews would remain in their current homes or move freely wherever they want.

Sounds like a good idea to me.

That's because you're a dumbass!

 

[P F Tinmore]

Again it isn't who is strongest. It is who is in the wrong.

It is wrong to target civilians. It is not wrong to retaliate against those who target civilians.

The police always have more authority, fire power, and ability to retaliate than do the criminals. So you condemn them too just because they have more ability to defend the innocent than do those committing crimes?

Unlike the Palestinan thugs, the Israelis do try very hard to pull their punches and not intentionally target civilians. But when the Palestinian cowardly thugs intentionally put their rocket launchers etc. in civilian neighborhoods for the specific purpose of drawing Israeli fire to those neighborhoods, who is the guilty party then?

All the Palestinians have to do is declare peace, police their own thugs, and honestly try to live in peace with the Israelis. When they do that, I believe they will be in absolutely no danger of any kind from the Israelis, will benefit from shared trade, and, when the Israelis believe it is safe, the fences and walls will come down.

If the Israelis put away their weapons however and extend a hand of friendship to the Palestinians, they will be destroyed.

That is the fact of the matter.

Israel is a foreign invasion of Palestine. It has always been the aggressor. The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Israel came to take over their country.

Do you really believe this stuff when you write it? You do know that it was British territory, donated by Great Britian and authorized by the United Nations, that was the teensy plot of land designated as a refuge for Jews displaced in other countries through no fault of their own?

The British administered the territory. They did not take possession. The citizens were Palestinians. Their birth certificates said born in Palestine. The land was ceded to the Palestinian government.

The British had no land to give to anybody.

 

[Foxfyre]

Israel is a foreign invasion of Palestine. It has always been the aggressor. The Palestinians were at home minding their own business when Israel came to take over their country.

Do you really believe this stuff when you write it? You do know that it was British territory, donated by Great Britian and authorized by the United Nations, that was the teensy plot of land designated as a refuge for Jews displaced in other countries through no fault of their own?

The British administered the territory. They did not take possession. The citizens were Palestinians. Their birth certificates said born in Palestine. The land was ceded to the Palestinian government.

The British had no land to give to anybody.

There WAS no Palestinian government there. I doubt very seriously there were any birth certificates issued to anybody born there at that time. You're right though that Britain was a protector rather than the owner of the land that had been allocated by the League of Nations for all areas without a central government and unable to stand on their own. But from 1920 on, the British Mandate intended that area to be a homeland for displaced Jews--much more land than the Jews eventually wound up with.

 

[GHook93]

Do you really believe this stuff when you write it? You do know that it was British territory, donated by Great Britian and authorized by the United Nations, that was the teensy plot of land designated as a refuge for Jews displaced in other countries through no fault of their own?

The British administered the territory. They did not take possession. The citizens were Palestinians. Their birth certificates said born in Palestine. The land was ceded to the Palestinian government.

The British had no land to give to anybody.

There WAS no Palestinian government there. I doubt very seriously there were any birth certificates issued to anybody born there at that time.

This fool just makes up shit! What color is the sky PF? PF response, "Any color I choose to say it is! What is wrong with that?"

 

[P F Tinmore]

Do you really believe this stuff when you write it? You do know that it was British territory, donated by Great Britian and authorized by the United Nations, that was the teensy plot of land designated as a refuge for Jews displaced in other countries through no fault of their own?

The British administered the territory. They did not take possession. The citizens were Palestinians. Their birth certificates said born in Palestine. The land was ceded to the Palestinian government.

The British had no land to give to anybody.

There WAS no Palestinian government there. I doubt very seriously there were any birth certificates issued to anybody born there at that time. You're right though that Britain was a protector rather than the owner of the land that had been allocated by the League of Nations for all areas without a central government and unable to stand on their own. But from 1920 on, the British Mandate intended that area to be a homeland for displaced Jews--much more land than the Jews eventually wound up with.

"Davis explains, "I don’t describe myself as a Palestinian Jew, I actually happen to be a Palestinian Jew, I was born in Jerusalem in 1943 in a country called Palestine and the title of my birth certificate is 'Government of Palestine'."

Palestinian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Foxfyre]

The British administered the territory. They did not take possession. The citizens were Palestinians. Their birth certificates said born in Palestine. The land was ceded to the Palestinian government.

The British had no land to give to anybody.

There WAS no Palestinian government there. I doubt very seriously there were any birth certificates issued to anybody born there at that time. You're right though that Britain was a protector rather than the owner of the land that had been allocated by the League of Nations for all areas without a central government and unable to stand on their own. But from 1920 on, the British Mandate intended that area to be a homeland for displaced Jews--much more land than the Jews eventually wound up with.

"Davis explains, "I don’t describe myself as a Palestinian Jew, I actually happen to be a Palestinian Jew, I was born in Jerusalem in 1943 in a country called Palestine and the title of my birth certificate is 'Government of Palestine'."

Palestinian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Really. The closet thing to a "Palestinian Government" was in 1919 when some Palestinian families organized a "Palestinian Arab Conference, but they were still under British guidance. Perhaps Britian issued some birth certificates in 1943? I don't know. It was at that time that the Palestinians considered themselves more citizens of Syria than anywhere else though. And it was at that time that they prohibited any more Jews from immigrating into the area.

In 1937, a local Arab leader, Auni Bey Abdul-Hadi, told the Peel Commission, which ultimately suggested the partition of Palestine: "There is no such country [as Palestine]! 'Palestine' is a term the Zionists invented! There is no Palestine in the Bible. Our country was for centuries part of Syria."

The representative of the Arab Higher Committee to the United Nations submitted a statement to the General Assembly in May 1947 that said "Palestine was part of the Province of Syria" and that, "politically, the Arabs of Palestine were not independent in the sense of forming a separate political entity." A few years later, Ahmed Shuqeiri, later the chairman of the PLO, told the Security Council: "It is common knowledge that Palestine is nothing but southern Syria."

Palestinian Arab nationalism is largely a post-World War I phenomenon that did not become a significant political movement until after the 1967 Six-Day War and Israel's capture of the West Bank.
Was there ever a state called Palestine? - Yahoo! Answers

 

[GHook93]

The British administered the territory. They did not take possession. The citizens were Palestinians. Their birth certificates said born in Palestine. The land was ceded to the Palestinian government.

The British had no land to give to anybody.

There WAS no Palestinian government there. I doubt very seriously there were any birth certificates issued to anybody born there at that time. You're right though that Britain was a protector rather than the owner of the land that had been allocated by the League of Nations for all areas without a central government and unable to stand on their own. But from 1920 on, the British Mandate intended that area to be a homeland for displaced Jews--much more land than the Jews eventually wound up with.

"Davis explains, "I don’t describe myself as a Palestinian Jew, I actually happen to be a Palestinian Jew, I was born in Jerusalem in 1943 in a country called Palestine and the title of my birth certificate is 'Government of Palestine'."

Palestinian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia!!! Is that the best you got, you fucking loser!

 

[Dot Com]

That's because you're a dumbass!

This fool just makes up shit! What color is the sky PF? PF response, "Any color I choose to say it is! What is wrong with that?"

Wikipedia!!! Is that the best you got, you fucking loser!

Keep *cough* "helping" your side w/ your content-free remarks GHook93 LOL

All you're saying with those dopey responses is that you have nothing to add. Got it ;-)

 

[Ropey]

The British administered the territory. They did not take possession. The citizens were Palestinians. Their birth certificates said born in Palestine. The land was ceded to the Palestinian government.

The British had no land to give to anybody.

There WAS no Palestinian government there. I doubt very seriously there were any birth certificates issued to anybody born there at that time. You're right though that Britain was a protector rather than the owner of the land that had been allocated by the League of Nations for all areas without a central government and unable to stand on their own. But from 1920 on, the British Mandate intended that area to be a homeland for displaced Jews--much more land than the Jews eventually wound up with.

"Davis explains, "I don’t describe myself as a Palestinian Jew, I actually happen to be a Palestinian Jew, I was born in Jerusalem in 1943 in a country called Palestine and the title of my birth certificate is 'Government of Palestine'."

Palestinian Jews - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let's flesh this out, shall we?

Uri Davis, an Israeli citizen, academic, activist and observer-member in the Palestinian National Council living in the Arab town of Sakhnin, identifies himself as an "anti-Zionist Palestinian Jew".[7][8] Davis explains, "I don’t describe myself as a Palestinian Jew, I actually happen to be a Palestinian Jew, I was born in Jerusalem in 1943 in a country called Palestine and the title of my birth certificate is 'Government of Palestine'.

That is neither here nor there, though. It is significant only in a political context in which I am situated, and the political context that is relevant to my work, my advocacy of a critique of Zionism. I'm an anti-Zionist Jew."[8]

He has since converted to Islam in 2008 to marry a Palestinian Muslim woman Miyassar Abu Ali whom he met in 2006.[9][10][11]"]

Palestinian Jews - eNotes.com Reference

When was this document created?

Wikipedia is notorious for half truths and many lies interspersed with truths.

 

[Ropey]

The consensus view of the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law.[39] The Fourth Geneva Convention includes statements such as "the Occupying Power shall not deport or transfer parts of its own civilian population into the territory it occupies".[40]

At present, the predominant view of the international community, as reflected in numerous UN resolutions, regards the building and existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and the Golan Heights as a violation of international law.[41][42][43] UN Security Council Resolution 446 refers to the Fourth Geneva Convention as the applicable international legal instrument, and calls upon Israel to desist from transferring its own population into the territories or changing their demographic makeup. The reconvened Conference of the High Contracting Parties to the Geneva Conventions has declared the settlements illegal[44] as has the primary judicial organ of the UN, the International Court of Justice

International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I've posted this 2X already yet Ropey doesn't seem to notice it:
West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

International law and Israeli settlements - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The consensus view of the international community is that the existence of Israeli settlements in the West Bank including East Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights is in violation of international law

West Bank - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Legal status

The United Nations Security Council,[65] the United Nations General Assembly,[66] the United States,[67] the EU,[68] the International Court of Justice,[69] and the International Committee of the Red Cross[70] refer to it as Palestinian territory occupied by Israel. General Assembly resolution 58/292 (17 May 2004) affirmed that the Palestinian people have the right to sovereignty over the area.

None of those are laws. Those are no more than recommendations.

With 57 Muslim countries who vote as a block in the General Assembly it is understandable how so many resolutions get passed. Like the recent one on Blasphemy which only affects Muslims but is a resolution for the world to follow the Islamic Blasphemy Law.

Yes, indeed. But the thing is that none of these are binding resolutions and NONE are law.