High emphasizes on Standardized Tests

[BrianH]

Here's the problem with your post, where is it you are hearing it's so widespread? Are you in education? Do you have some links that make it a nationwide phenomena? If not, you are leaving an implication that may well be wrong, though you believe it, albeit with nothing to back it up.

Quotes from earlier posts of mine...
"And for the record, I am in education...and have witnessed this first-hand."

My assumption that it's widespread (based on my personal experiences) is no more of an implication than your assumption (based on your experience) that it isn't wide-spread.

http://www.educationreport.org/pubs/mer/article.aspx?id=3907
"First, there is widespread anxiety about the use of tests as a basis for rewards and sanctions, for both schools and students. Schools fear the stigma of low scores, and the possible loss of state accreditation. Students worry about endorsed diplomas and the availability of scholarships if their test scores don't meet the standard"

http://www.nationalsummary.com/Articles/Education/education__more_cheating.htm

Another problem I see happening around the nation with standardized testing....this link is specifically about Texas, yet, I doubt Texas is the only culprit...

 

[Annie]

Quotes from earlier posts of mine...
"And for the record, I am in education...and have witnessed this first-hand."

My assumption that it's widespread (based on my personal experiences) is no more of an implication than your assumption (based on your experience) that it isn't wide-spread.

http://www.educationreport.org/pubs/mer/article.aspx?id=3907
"First, there is widespread anxiety about the use of tests as a basis for rewards and sanctions, for both schools and students. Schools fear the stigma of low scores, and the possible loss of state accreditation. Students worry about endorsed diplomas and the availability of scholarships if their test scores don't meet the standard"

http://www.nationalsummary.com/Articles/Education/education__more_cheating.htm

Another problem I see happening around the nation with standardized testing....this link is specifically about Texas, yet, I doubt Texas is the only culprit...

About NCLB, yes. Though, if schools are adhering to standards and the students are mastering the goals, 'teaching to the test' is unecessary. What's wrong with NCLB is that it fails to acknowledge that some students are unable, EVER, to master some of the goals; then punishes schools that have too many of those children.

In some schools there may be a heavy concentration of ESL students, others may have a significant population of students whose mothers abused drugs/alcohol while pregnant and are still being neglected due to parent(s) addiction problem. Many scenarios are possible, where it's not feasible to have the bar set where it is. Haven't even addressed the problems of those with severe disabilities such as cerebral palsy, Down's syndrome, and other special needs children.

 

[midcan5]

They give them in October so you cannot really teach to the test, they are varied but let's face it, fundamental Reading and Math, the key pieces should be understood. Math is tough as kids today hate the work. My wife has taught middle school for over 20 years.

For me this another example of right wingnut social darwinism entering school. Arts don't matter as we need need ditch diggers not artists. Teachers should know if students are progressing and testing is a mixed bag. Many students hate tests and do poorly, some on purpose as the test has no meaning for them.

I think education as a value is not high in our society, we admire athletics and then - who do we admire next? Glamour? Fame? Look at McCain's reason for being against the recent GI bill. And yet the GI bill did marvels for improving our society after WWII.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

They give them in October so you cannot really teach to the test, they are varied but let's face it, fundamental Reading and Math, the key pieces should be understood. Math is tough as kids today hate the work. My wife has taught middle school for over 20 years.

For me this another example of right wingnut social darwinism entering school. Arts don't matter as we need need ditch diggers not artists. Teachers should know if students are progressing and testing is a mixed bag. Many students hate tests and do poorly, some on purpose as the test has no meaning for them.

I think education as a value is not high in our society, we admire athletics and then - who do we admire next? Glamour? Fame? Look at McCain's reason for being against the recent GI bill. And yet the GI bill did marvels for improving our society after WWII.

Ohh Look the board socialist has spoken, all will be fine now.

 

[Ravi]

They give them in October so you cannot really teach to the test

Ours are in February.

 

[jillian]

Our math was the first week in March. The ELA was earlier.

 

[Annie]

They give them in October so you cannot really teach to the test, they are varied but let's face it, fundamental Reading and Math, the key pieces should be understood. Math is tough as kids today hate the work. My wife has taught middle school for over 20 years.

For me this another example of right wingnut social darwinism entering school. Arts don't matter as we need need ditch diggers not artists. Teachers should know if students are progressing and testing is a mixed bag. Many students hate tests and do poorly, some on purpose as the test has no meaning for them.

I think education as a value is not high in our society, we admire athletics and then - who do we admire next? Glamour? Fame? Look at McCain's reason for being against the recent GI bill. And yet the GI bill did marvels for improving our society after WWII.

For crying out loud! We at least partially agree on something!!! The idea that all children are capable of performing at least at grade level, is just wrong. It defies the notion basis of IQ, which while I in no way would use alone or based on one evaluation a sure measure, over time with other performance measures taken into account, is a pretty good indicator of where one falls on ability to think more complexly. Heck it plain ignores common sense.

The average is 100. Out of 18 students this year, 3 fell below the 100 CSQ, only one of which was below 85, which is really NOT GOOD. This is in 7th grade. This one child is NOT able to make an inference if her life depended on it. She needs to be told to take her sweater off if it's too hot. She needs to see others putting on their coats when it's cold. While a lovely child, she is not being serviced to care for herself in our school, we don't have the staff or facilities that are necessary. Her teachers do not have the training or honestly the interest in doing the occupational and social teaching of the severely mentally disabled or they would have specialized in university or master's work. Note: standardized tests are NOT IQ Tests, though they render a CSQ, (or some other acronym), which is based upon age controlled results of the testing service. These are not perfect, as some are more rigorous than others, but they come pretty close. They are an indicator. Teachers usually look for significant outliers, otherwise don't really use all that much. If a student repeatedly performs better or worse than I would assume on tests, based upon their classroom answers and homework, I might pull the records from the year before to see if they are under or over achieving. I don't think many are 'over achieving' rather they may not be good at standardized tests or just have set higher goals, are motivated by my subject areas or just be more disciplined than the rest of that class. If a student appears to be underachieving, I'll try to find some ways to motivate or guide them.

4 kids scored above 120, one of those in 130's which is pretty high. One 5th grader scored in the 160's which is quite mind blowing, I wonder if we can service that type of giftedness any better than the student with 78? Not quite as worried, as the parents have repeatedly been advised to check out gifted schools. The father is a chemical engineer, the mother a doctor. They don't want him 'labeled' or 'singled out.' That's their choice, though I'd make different, he's a bit of a behavior problem, bored I know.

That girl with 78 is never going to reach 100, regardless of any guidelines set by any government. She will not graduate from college, I don't think it likely she can graduate high school, with a regular academic plan. I've used her IEP to modify her work to a 5th grade level, she would not pass if I gave her tests, so I don't, on the principal's directive-which I made her write and sign off on via the IEP.

School's can't fix all the problems that are currently assigned to them, though most caring and good teachers wish they could. I can't fix broken homes, neglected kids, though I can notice a particularly sad or angry kid and give them some attention as quickly as possible. I can show them I like them and trust them by giving them some task or errand that demonstrates that. I can get to my classes extracurricular events from time to time, know when they win 'a big game' and write a congratulatory note on the board.

Bottom line though, I'm supposed to teach kids ancient history and why they should study it, how it's relevant to their lives today. I'm supposed to teach civics and why they should vote, observe Memorial Day and the like. They should know the underlying philosophies of democracy, capitalism, constitution making and not just that we have a Constitution and some wars that have been fought. They need to know the facts and by the end of middle school have some basic knowledge and ability to think of the ideas that are important to themselves. In the course of doing the above, I also need to teach them how to move onto higher order thinking, which is reading, comprehending, then analyzing and synthesizing the material. They need to learn to write their conclusions with clarity and logic.

All the information above in the last paragraph is relevant to standards and standardized testing, while the bolded is taught via the proceeding, the higher scores on tests are reflected by achieving the bolded attributes.

 

[BrianH]

They give them in October so you cannot really teach to the test, they are varied but let's face it, fundamental Reading and Math, the key pieces should be understood. Math is tough as kids today hate the work. My wife has taught middle school for over 20 years.

For me this another example of right wingnut social darwinism entering school. Arts don't matter as we need need ditch diggers not artists. Teachers should know if students are progressing and testing is a mixed bag. Many students hate tests and do poorly, some on purpose as the test has no meaning for them.

I think education as a value is not high in our society, we admire athletics and then - who do we admire next? Glamour? Fame? Look at McCain's reason for being against the recent GI bill. And yet the GI bill did marvels for improving our society after WWII.

Your state may give them in October, our state gives them in April and May

 

[BrianH]

About NCLB, yes. Though, if schools are adhering to standards and the students are mastering the goals, 'teaching to the test' is unecessary. What's wrong with NCLB is that it fails to acknowledge that some students are unable, EVER, to master some of the goals; then punishes schools that have too many of those children.

In some schools there may be a heavy concentration of ESL students, others may have a significant population of students whose mothers abused drugs/alcohol while pregnant and are still being neglected due to parent(s) addiction problem. Many scenarios are possible, where it's not feasible to have the bar set where it is. Haven't even addressed the problems of those with severe disabilities such as cerebral palsy, Down's syndrome, and other special needs children.

Exactly, and these are the areas in which administration forces its teacher to teach to the test. When you have an abnormal amount of students that have these problems, what other way to reach them (in admins. eyes that is). I know there are plenty of ways to reach them, but unfortunately in districts like these, it's not much of a choice what teachers think....

 

[Annie]

Exactly, and these are the areas in which administration forces its teacher to teach to the test. When you have an abnormal amount of students that have these problems, what other way to reach them (in admins. eyes that is). I know there are plenty of ways to reach them, but unfortunately in districts like these, it's not much of a choice what teachers think....

Thus I guess we were always in agreement. I said from the onset I was in a wealthier than normal area, thus many of the problems are avoided. Interestingly enough, NCLB still screws many. Let's say you have a 3% poverty level. If more than a certain percentage of your poverty kids fail to meet standards, the school can go on academic warning, in spite of SAT average of 25 and 98% graduation rate.

 

[BrianH]

Thus I guess we were always in agreement. I said from the onset I was in a wealthier than normal area, thus many of the problems are avoided. Interestingly enough, NCLB still screws many. Let's say you have a 3% poverty level. If more than a certain percentage of your poverty kids fail to meet standards, the school can go on academic warning, in spite of SAT average of 25 and 98% graduation rate.

Exactly, I think we both agree, we just come from opposite ends of the spectrum....

 

[Justme08]

Ours are in February.

Ours too.

 

[BrianH]

October is a wierd time of the year. Most people give theirs in the Spring. We have one in March and then the rest in May.

 

[random3434]

Thus I guess we were always in agreement. I said from the onset I was in a wealthier than normal area, thus many of the problems are avoided. Interestingly enough, NCLB still screws many. Let's say you have a 3% poverty level. If more than a certain percentage of your poverty kids fail to meet standards, the school can go on academic warning, in spite of SAT average of 25 and 98% graduation rate.

I hope NCLB is repelled by our new president, as it is unfair to many students. I teach special needs students in a high poverty area in a self-contained classroom. From August 11th to September 16th I drill these students all day on our ISTEP Test. (Indiana's Test) (The principal DEMANDS all teachers do this btw)

Some of my students have IQ's from 68 to 74, yet are still expected to pass the test like their general education peers. Imagine someone giving you a reading comprehension test in Greek, and expecting you to pass that test. (Well of course, unless you can read Greek.) That's what it is like for a lot of these students.


Our school is on probation this year because of the ESL and Special Needs kids not passing the test, and the teachers are blamed for these students not passing the test. Maybe we can reform NCLB to make it more realistic, and let's hope some TEACHERS who actually TEACH in SCHOOLS can help reform NCLB.

 

[editec]

YOu can't test your way out of the problem that families are falling apart ergo schools are faced with problem children that they are wholly unqualified to help.

Johnny can't read either because Johnny is a moron to begin with, or he is somehow not being given the motivation and support at home to motivate him to get with the program.

Asking Kathianne and this nation's teachers to fix that is absurd.

Not so absurd, however, that we aren't blaming teachers for the problems in education over which they have NO CONTROL.

We don't blame prison guards for public crime, but we blame teachers for the public's ignorance.

We don't blame preachers for sin, but we blame educators for children with emotional/mental problems.

Go figure.

 

[manifold]

Here's an idea for education reform.

Eliminate standardized testing in high school completely. Instead, have one for the sixth grade, and the sixth grade only. Let's face it, the biggest social problem with dumbass graduates isn't because they can't find Delaware on a map, it's because they can't read, write and do basic math. All the criticisms about too much emphasis, and teaching to the test, blah blah blah, would all be positive attributes in this circumstance. Once a kid demonstrates a minimum level of proficiency via examination, he gets to advance to middle school for 3 years to learn about all the wonders of you name it without the stress and burden of being meticulously graded. And then, you get 3 years of preparatory high school as long as you can maintain a minimum level of performance. If you can't, it's time to think about trade school, the military, or finding work in one of those jobs Americans are allegedly unwilling to do.

 

[editec]

You want to fix the problems in America's schools?

Fix the problem in America's families and they'll fix themselves.

Nobody's home for these kids anymore, folks. (7 in 8 mohter now have full time jobs in America!)

We're all busy busting our asses trying to keep the lights on.

Of course our kids are in trouble! They're practically raising themselves.

Schools can't fix that!

 

[manifold]

You want to fix the problems in America's schools?

Fix the problem in America's families and they'll fix themselves.

Nobody's home for these kids anymore, folks. (7 in 8 mohter now have full time jobs in America!)

We're all busy busting our asses trying to keep the lights on.

Of course our kids are in trouble!

Schools can't fix that!

That's not a problem I'd expect my government to solve. I think affecting a minimum level of proficiency in the basics for the majority of the population is a much more reasonable goal, and use of taxdollars.

 

[random3434]

I think that for a HS diploma to have any value, it shouldn't be handed out to anyone for just showing up. I've looked at some of these tests and anyone at graduation age that can't pass the damn thing is a retard and doesn't deserve a diploma. If teaching to the tests results in students acquiring basic math and reading skills, what's the problem with that? Isn't that really what it should be about anyway?

So you don't feel special education students should get a diploma?

 

[Taomon]

Every state, except Iowa now administers test based on the states standards. Some states require students to pass these standardized tests in order to receive a HS Diploma; if they do not pass these exams they will only receive a certificate of attendance. Standardize testing in each state share these common factors: high standards for what all students should know and do; tests aligned to the standards to measure student progress; and accountability for schools based on the results.

Therefore, many teachers have resulted to teaching to the test. As a result, students are not in an engaging learning environment but are being forced to memorize facts and practice test taking skills. Although, teaching to the test will help the students become more familiar with the content on the test, other valuable information is being excluded from the curriculum.

What do you all think? Should testing play a huge role in determining whether students graduate or not?

Stanardized tests are a bad idea.