Hey michigan - Don't cut my public worker pension until ALL welfare is eliminated

[ShootSpeeders]

Would you say that a military man who spent 20 years in, retired, and is owed his retirement pension from the government is no different than someone getting welfare?

Both are a drain on Government and should be cut or eliminated.

You can't expect Politicians of Today to keep the Promises made by Politicians of the Past.

It's not the politicians, it's the govt that made the promises. The govt has to be held to it's promises unless something catastrophic happens.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

My pension is money that by law is OWED to me. Welfare is just a GIFT we give to lazy deadbeats . No way any institution can give money away while stiffing its creditors!!!

Like it or not, some people are owned welfare by law.

Sure - there are laws saying we will give you charity if you're poo,r but those laws can and should be repealed overnight before any pensioner is told to take a cut.

I earned my pension. You didn't earn your welfare.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

Ahh, Democrats bitching about Democrat controlled States screwing them over in favor of entitlement programs for poorer Democrats who don't want to work. It's absolutely priceless.

Damn right - and it's a good point i'm makiing. You can't GIVE money away while you stiff your creditors. Eventually the states will pass a law cutting the pension i earned but before that they have to pass a law ending all welfare.

 

[Clementine]

My pension is money that by law is OWED to me. Welfare is just a GIFT we give to lazy deadbeats . No way any institution can give money away while stiffing its creditors!!!

Odd thing is, once you lose your pension, they'll probably hand you welfare. Go figure.

And we are still sending billions in aid to countries that hate our guts. Too bad China can't just loan it to them so we wouldn't be stuck paying them back for money we send on.

 

[realinvestment]

My pension is money that by law is OWED to me. Welfare is just a GIFT we give to lazy deadbeats . No way any institution can give money away while stiffing its creditors!!!

As you acknowledge, you are nothing more than a creditor. If a city owes you money, it is not the entity paying the welfare, so you are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

Yep. Sure is. When Clinton slashed military funds, many in the military voted GOP in 2000. They dont vote for the folks who will cut military spending. They, too, vote for their own self interest. I bet a lot of miilitary members voted against Obama, because they knew Obama would cut miitary spending.

See how that works? So yeah, its the same.

The military don't have the right to collectively bargain.

The military are also dispersed all throughout the country. They aren't concentrated in one centralized city council district or urban area where they would have a larger influence and affect on an election outcome like city union lackeys are.

See how that works? So no, it's not the same. Better luck next time.

Most cops and firemen dont either, as most PD's and FD's are not unionized.

Yes, it IS THE SAME. They are all government employees. They all get paid by our tax dollars. They all vote according to their own interests. Its the same, you right wingers are just too confused about it. Like a dog who tilts his head when confused, you right wingers get confused when you are told the military is in fact made up of government employees, living off tax dollars, getting sweet 20 year retirements with pay/benefits for life starting as early as age 38. Imagine that. Work from 18-38 as a cook in the Navy. Then retire, and live the next 50 years off the taxpayer. Show me ONE non-military government job that offers such a sweet deal? There are none.

So, yeah, its the same. You RW'ers are just too brainwashed to have that discussion.

Name one election where members of the military turned it one way or the other? Just one, go ahead.

I grew up in Boston, not suburbia, the actual city, and pretty much every election in that city is dependent on who gets the union endorsements.

 

[ShootSpeeders]

My pension is money that by law is OWED to me. Welfare is just a GIFT we give to lazy deadbeats . No way any institution can give money away while stiffing its creditors!!!

As you acknowledge, you are nothing more than a creditor. If a city owes you money, it is not the entity paying the welfare, so you are comparing apples to oranges.

HAHAHA. Please learn basic english grammar. No one has any idea what you're saying.

 

[boilermaker55]

Reading through the responses about this thread it struck me funny that no one mentioned the sponge in DC that is the Congress. With their pensions and medical coverage, no one finds this objectionable but it is easy to kick around the soldiers/sailors that serve us in a magnitude that Congress doesn't.
Plus the number of days they do not work.
So it is easy to kick those that have no way to represent themselves for economic progression.

 

[auditor0007]

Nobody said that. The OP is not retired military, he is a retired public employee, basically a career parasite.

The poster you responded to is a useless troll.

Yes, teachers, firemen, police officers, social workers, city workers from streets and sanitation, they're all career parasites. Another dumb and dumber post from a right wing idiot. I wish every Republican ran on a platform that stated that all public employees are career parasites. You and those like you are absolute morons.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Reading through the responses about this thread it struck me funny that no one mentioned the sponge in DC that is the Congress. With their pensions and medical coverage, no one finds this objectionable but it is easy to kick around the soldiers/sailors that serve us in a magnitude that Congress doesn't.
Plus the number of days they do not work.
So it is easy to kick those that have no way to represent themselves for economic progression.

they didnt cause the trouble in the blue cities. the unions and liberal voters did.

 

[BillyV]

Interesting anecdote about the underfunding of municipal pension liabilities:

consider a hypothetical negotiation between a self-interested mayor and a union negotiator ably representing government employees.

The union negotiator starts by saying, “My members have contributed heavily to your campaign, so please give them a huge salary increase.”

The politician responds, “I’d like to help you out, but to give most government employees a mammoth raise, I would have to raise taxes, cut existing spending or borrow money, and all of these options would cost me votes.”

The negotiator considers this for a minute, then replies, “OK, don’t give us anything now, but get the government to make a legally binding promise to give my members greatly increased retirement benefits in the far future, long after you leave office.

“Or, like some government employees in California can do, allow my members to retire at age 50 and then for the rest of their lives receive a pension that will be close to what they earned the year before they retired.”

The politician then counters by saying: “That’s a good idea in theory. But under our accounting rules, I have to put aside enough money today to cover future pension expenses.”

But the negotiator defeats this objection, saying, “Just assert that the assets you have already put aside for pensions will somehow be invested in a way that earns them a spectacularly high return — high enough to cover your new obligations to my members.

“With this assumption, you can give my members something they will be extremely grateful for without you needing to raise any additional revenues today. And if anyone ever accuses you of being fiscally irresponsible, just tell them that teachers, police officers and firefighters deserve a first-class retirement.”

Our Unfunded Pensions Bomb Is Ticking

It seems if the employee unions were worth anything, they would have made sure long ago that these promises were properly funded; while it may have been dishonest politicians that made these promises and then failed to fund them, it was also laziness (or dishonesty on the part of union leaders) in not verifying that the funds were in the plan to cover the accrued liabilities that has led to these problems. In any case, they are legitimate claims against the government that promised the benefits; just as in the private sector, those claims are only good while the entity is solvent. Once they become insolvent, all bets are off.

 

[boilermaker55]

Could you point to your source that backs this up?

Reading through the responses about this thread it struck me funny that no one mentioned the sponge in DC that is the Congress. With their pensions and medical coverage, no one finds this objectionable but it is easy to kick around the soldiers/sailors that serve us in a magnitude that Congress doesn't.
Plus the number of days they do not work.
So it is easy to kick those that have no way to represent themselves for economic progression.

they didnt cause the trouble in the blue cities. the unions and liberal voters did.

 

[Lovebears65]

What's the difference between the two?

Would you say that a military man who spent 20 years in, retired, and is owed his retirement pension from the government is no different than someone getting welfare?

The military is the same as a public employee raiding the taxpayers' coffers by voting in corrupt city councilman to give them benefits and perks they can't afford to pay when the bill comes? Because that's what they did in Detroit.

Your attitude is why the Republican Party will be obsolete and irrelevant in 10 years.

I'm not a Republican so I fail to see how my attitude has anything to do with their alleged obsolescence or irrelevancy in ten years. Not everyone is a willing slave to the political duopoly sheeple like you keep propping up

I am sorry but the men and women who signed a contract and risked thier lives for 20 plus years EARNED their retirement. PERIOD

 

[Lovebears65]

If they had NO incentive to sign up there would be a draft. Because NO One would volunteer to fight for this country if there was NO incentive

 

[bodecea]

If they had NO incentive to sign up there would be a draft. Because NO One would volunteer to fight for this country if there was NO incentive

No one fights for love of country?

 

[peach174]

What's the difference between the two?

Would you say that a military man who spent 20 years in, retired, and is owed his retirement pension from the government is no different than someone getting welfare?

Your attitude is why the Republican Party will be obsolete and irrelevant in 10 years.

How have those getting welfare served their country?

I already have 1 private pension and 1 from a state. When I retire I will have 1 more from a public employer and SS. I paid into all of it. I'm damned sure I'm going to draw as much as is physically possible from all 4 of them.

You are getting 4 checks when you retire, when most people get 2 when the retire.
If your State does not change the unfunded State workers retirement funds, you will only be getting 3 checks.
Seems to me, it would be better to get a smaller amount of your State retirement check rather than none at all if the State went Bankrupt because nothing at all was done about it.
I'm sure you will be fine with your 3 checks and one smaller State check.

 

[eflatminor]

My pension is money that by law is OWED to me.

Actually, it's the taxpayer's money. Your union and their corrupt buddies in office promised you something that they cannot provide...a return on retirement funds that no stock or bond market could every consistently produce. Sorry, but the money's not there. You should have saved for your own retirement rather than believing the lies promised by the representatives you supported. A lack a proper planning on your part is not an emergency on mine.

 

[peach174]

Could you point to your source that backs this up?

Reading through the responses about this thread it struck me funny that no one mentioned the sponge in DC that is the Congress. With their pensions and medical coverage, no one finds this objectionable but it is easy to kick around the soldiers/sailors that serve us in a magnitude that Congress doesn't.
Plus the number of days they do not work.
So it is easy to kick those that have no way to represent themselves for economic progression.

they didnt cause the trouble in the blue cities. the unions and liberal voters did.

What part of 123 Trillion unfunded liabilities are you not getting?
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

Our large entitlement programs needs to be reformed or we will go Bankrupt in the future.

 

[editec]

My pension is money that by law is OWED to me. Welfare is just a GIFT we give to lazy deadbeats . No way any institution can give money away while stiffing its creditors!!!

I TOTALLY get that.

 

[peach174]

My pension is money that by law is OWED to me. Welfare is just a GIFT we give to lazy deadbeats . No way any institution can give money away while stiffing its creditors!!!

And also by Law they can take both away.
What part of this are you not getting?
Whenever any government is big enough that it can give you something, they can also take it away.