Hamas leader: Nations are recognizing Palestinian state due to ‘fruits of October 7’

[Shusha]

Yes,but primarily to help the citizens of Gaza.

Which Israel is clearly unwilling to do or incapable of doing themselves.

I suppose that depends what you mean by “help the citizens of Gaza”. Remembering, of course, that Israel is at war with Gaza. What do you suppose that Israel should be doing that she is not?

Then look me up when it happens.

Because, in reality, Bibi wants all the Gazans to leave Gaza.

Where in that you see the will to help them rebuild Gaza is a mystery to me.

Ah. Well, rebuild Gaza is entirely different from help the citizens of Gaza.

You expect Israel to rebuild Gaza? Why is that? Do you hold others also responsible for rebuilding Gaza?

Netanyahu has not declared a public policy of forcible transfer. Regardless of what you suppose his personal feelings are.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

First off, Israel is a liberal democracy

Yes, exactly as i said and meant, and that is who I side with, when it comes to matters of its self defense, and a lot of other things. What country do you think I meant?

Maybe switch to decaf, reread the original post. Thanks.

 

[rosends]

Or we can do simple math.

Killing 1200 Israelis was bad. Killing 72,000 or 100,000 Palestinians through bombing, bullets or starvation is substantially worse.

You aren't the victims here. If any other country acted the way yours does, they would be subject to sanctions (at best) or military intervention (at worst).

No. Starting a war was bad. It wasn't just the invasion. It wasn't just the thousands of rockets. It wasn't just the murder and grape. It was also the taking (and still holding) hostages. Trying to turn Israel into the aggressor is silly. Do you frequently criticize victims who fight back? Do you always count and compare casualties? Is your sense that holding hostages is acceptable because finders keepers?

Israel isn't a liberal democracy; it's an apartheid state.

Really? Do you have any evidence to substantiate that label?

 

[Shusha]

http://[URL]https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-02009-8

[/URL]

Paywalled. Can't access. Though I did review the other sources from your previous post.

The problem largely lies with determining how many of the dead are combatants, Hamas, other terror groups, members of other militias. And how many are civilians. (Though there are other things to consider. Such as, how many died of unrelated causes; how many were killed by Hamas or other terror groups; how many indiscriminate rockets fell short. But we'll tackle the big one first).

The way to get to 80% of the dead are civilians is: no woman, no man over [insert age], and no child under [insert age] are to be counted as combatants. The way to get to 50% of the dead are civilians is to apportion some number of women, some number of elderly men, and some number of children as combatants.

In my opinion, the former can not be supported. Some number of women, elderly men, and children contributed to the war effort, or could reasonably be assumed to have. Easy example off the top of my head: You, as an adult female, are holding a hostage within your residential apartment. You are a combatant. You are not only contributing to the war as an active participant, you are committing crimes against humanity.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

No. Starting a war was bad. It wasn't just the invasion. It wasn't just the thousands of rockets. It wasn't just the murder and grape. It was also the taking (and still holding) hostages. Trying to turn Israel into the aggressor is silly. Do you frequently criticize victims who fight back? Do you always count and compare casualties? Is your sense that holding hostages is acceptable because finders keepers?

Really? Do you have any evidence to substantiate that label?

Hamas was definitely the aggressor.

But now it is Israel. And you support that, or you don't. But let's all stay within the context of the facts as they exist today.

 

[Shusha]

Hamas was definitely the aggressor.

But now it is Israel.

In my opinion, and I realize not everyone will agree with this, in every conflict there is one aggressor and one defendant. They can't switch places. One abuses, the other responds to the abuse. Yes, the defender may respond inappropriately, but they are never the aggressor. Just my personal pov.

I am curious what your criteria is for where self-defense ends. Under what circumstances, MUST a defender surrender?

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yeah, no one believes Zionist claims that it's only 50K or that 70% of them were "Soldiers".



Except that independent agencies agree with their assessment.

First independent survey of deaths in Gaza reports more than 80,000 fatalities

Results align with other efforts to count the number of people killed amid the ongoing conflict.

www.nature.com

Almost 84,000 people died in Gaza between October 2023 and early January 2025 as a result of the Hamas–Israel war, estimates the first independent survey of deaths. More than half of the people killed were women aged 18–64, children or people over 65, reports the study, which was posted on the preprint server medRxiv last week







Oh, it wasn't just Russia, it was Germany itself.

Here's a 1919 Cartoon. Not a Nazi Cartoon, Nazis didn't exist yet. This was the prevelant feeling after World War I. The Central Powers lost because Jewish Revolutionairies stabbed them in the back.

View attachment 1149592

Now, yeah, this seems harsh... but when you eat the family dog to stay alive, harsh has a whole new meaning.



Israel isn't a liberal democracy; it's an apartheid state.

Signifying that you do not know the meaning of "liberal democracy or apartheid state.

 

[toomuchtime_]

Yes, exactly as i said and meant, and that is who I side with, when it comes to matters of its self defense, and a lot of other things. What country do you think I meant?

Maybe switch to decaf, reread the original post. Thanks.

Again, you support Israel's right to defend itself against those who are not attacking it but not against those who are attacking it, namely the Palestinians.

 

[rosends]

Hamas was definitely the aggressor.

But now it is Israel. And you support that, or you don't. But let's all stay within the context of the facts as they exist today.

I support continued military response while the enemy continues belligerent behavior or holds people or bodies hostage. Israel continues to act in defense of its population. Its population is currently still at risk and in need of defending.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Thanks for this. I follow Andrew Fox, but somehow missed this one.

"It is so demonstrably not a genocide that by giving it a serious answer and a serious rebuttal, you are almost dignifying the outrageous blood libel."

peter boghossian is another one to follow.

Jew Hatred

A Conversation with Adam LeBor

boghossian.substack.com

 

[JoeB131]

There's over 1.5 million combined casualties on both sides the Russian Ukraine war probably 500,000 dead.. you have no idea what who's dead in Gaza none you have no idea who's a terrorist and who is the so-called civilian and the Gaza health ministry which doesn't really exist they do they were probably the ones beating those people in the streets you dumbass

Except independent agencies agree with the MOH numbers, or even think they are too low.

No, the number of dead in the Ukraine War is nowhere near 500K, even if you count Russians.

The Zionists are acting like the Nazis... The Nazis had all sorts of excuses why it was okay for them to kill the Jews, too.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Except independent agencies agree with the MOH numbers, or even think they are too low.

No, the number of dead in the Ukraine War is nowhere near 500K, even if you count Russians.

The Zionists are acting like the Nazis... The Nazis had all sorts of excuses why it was okay for them to kill the Jews, too.

Total brain dead rubbish.

 

[JoeB131]

No. Starting a war was bad. It wasn't just the invasion. It wasn't just the thousands of rockets. It wasn't just the murder and grape. It was also the taking (and still holding) hostages. Trying to turn Israel into the aggressor is silly. Do you frequently criticize victims who fight back? Do you always count and compare casualties? Is your sense that holding hostages is acceptable because finders keepers?

Israel became the aggressor when the first boatload of Jews showed up and started stealing Arab land.

Seriously, why are you guys so insistent on living next to people who don't want you there and want to kill you is mind-boggling.

The problem largely lies with determining how many of the dead are combatants, Hamas, other terror groups, members of other militias. And how many are civilians. (Though there are other things to consider. Such as, how many died of unrelated causes; how many were killed by Hamas or other terror groups; how many indiscriminate rockets fell short. But we'll tackle the big one first).

The way to get to 80% of the dead are civilians is: no woman, no man over [insert age], and no child under [insert age] are to be counted as combatants. The way to get to 50% of the dead are civilians is to apportion some number of women, some number of elderly men, and some number of children as combatants.

In my opinion, the former can not be supported. Some number of women, elderly men, and children contributed to the war effort, or could reasonably be assumed to have. Easy example off the top of my head: You, as an adult female, are holding a hostage within your residential apartment. You are a combatant. You are not only contributing to the war as an active participant, you are committing crimes against humanity.

So by your faulty logic, every Jew killed on October 7th could be counted as a "combatant", as they are all actively supporting the Zionist Occupation of Palestine.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Israel became the aggressor when the first boatload of Jews showed up and started stealing Arab land.

Seriously, why are you guys so insistent on living next to people who don't want you there and want to kill you is mind-boggling.





So by your faulty logic, every Jew killed on October 7th could be counted as a "combatant", as they are all actively supporting the Zionist Occupation of Palestine.

More rubbish.

 

[JoeB131]

More rubbish.

Concession duly noted.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Concession duly noted.

In your dreams. lol.

 

[JoeB131]

In your dreams. lol.

Naw, you guys just can't get away with playing victim anymore.

The world sees you for what you are.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Naw, you guys just can't get away with playing victim anymore.

The world sees you for what you are.

Victims and aggressors? At the same time?

Make up your mind.

 

[JoeB131]

Victims and aggressors? At the same time?

Make up your mind.

Oh, no, you people aren't victims.

you invade someone else country, treat them like garbage, and then whine like little bitches when they fight back.

Then when you murder thousands of them, you are surprised the world doesn't respond to "but, but, but Hitler" like they've done for decades.

 

[ShahdagMountains]

Oh, no, you people aren't victims.

you invade someone else country, treat them like garbage, and then whine like little bitches when they fight back.

Then when you murder thousands of them, you are surprised the world doesn't respond to "but, but, but Hitler" like they've done for decades.

You’re too stupid and deranged to engage with.