Grid scale batteries are now competing directly with coal and gas

[Anomalism]

You miss the point. Yes, there are losses there, but the power source is carried in the car, then combusted right in the engine. It obviates the need to generate the power elsewhere, 100 miles away, send it through miles of wires, stepping it down several times in costly substations, to then convert it to rectified DC, then feed it into a storage battery to hold. All the power is right there in the gasoline, already put there millions of years ago by the Sun and plants.

There are no perfect solutions, every energy form has advantages and liabilities. Thing is that current battery-powered technology to carry massive batteries, charge them up with energy made elsewhere is at best a Rube Goldberg solution instituted at the absolute earliest opportunity in a desperate attempt to replace ICE, and the technology is far from mature.

EV cars, solar panels, windmills--- practical solutions for SOME people SOME of the time, but not for everyone all of the time.

Jetsons we are not.

Me, I'm still pulling for hydrogen-power.

Solar will be a serious contender in the future. Nuclear will probably be the backbone of future energy.

Turbines are not practical right now though. Maybe someday.

 

[toobfreak]

Solar will be a serious contender in the future.

For who? Do you realize the vast areas of this planet who actually have very few clear sunny days for solar to work? You think we are going to line the entire equator and every desert with solar panels to feed power to the other 90% of the planet?

 

[Anomalism]

For who? Do you realize the vast areas of this planet who actually have very few clear sunny days for solar to work? You think we are going to line the entire equator and every desert with solar panels to feed power to the other 90% of the planet?

I find it hard to believe that collecting direct sunlight won't one day be more efficient than burning fossil fuels.

Fossil fuels are just prehistoric solar energy stored in chemical bonds, with massive inefficiencies layered on top: extraction, transport, combustion losses, heat waste. Solar skips the middleman. It converts incoming photons straight into electricity. As materials improve and manufacturing scales, the efficiency and cost curves will keep improving.

Capturing sunlight directly, without millions of years of geological processing and combustion losses, to me, seems like it will ultimately be the more elegant and scalable path.

I also don't think you are using your imagination enough. How do you know we won't one day have giant solar collectors in space? The Sun delivers more energy to Earth in an hour than humanity uses in a year. The constraint isn't sunlight. It's how clever we can get about using it.

 

[toobfreak]

I find it hard to believe that collecting direct sunlight won't one day be more efficient than burning fossil fuels.

I see you are obviously not an engineer: fossil fuels are self-contained energy stored in a refined, concentrated form available everywhere. Damn, I bet there are a dozen gas stations within 2 miles of my house. The sunlight must REACH the ground first before we can even access it. And unlike gas which simply needs a spark to ignite, solar energy comes as photos of light, which must be converted to DC electricity first through a complicated process, then it must be inverted into AC, phase aligned to feed it into the grid, then goes away at night or every time a cloud passes by. Sheesh.

Besides, refinement of the many fractions of crude old is essential to supplying literally hundreds if not thousands of products we need to live for everything from fuel to cleaners, lubricants, cosmetics, products, and food.

Virtually everything you need and use in your life directly or indirectly relies on fossil fuel.

 

[Anomalism]

I see you are obviously not an engineer: fossil fuels are self-contained energy stored in a refined, concentrated form available everywhere. Damn, I bet there are a dozen gas stations within 2 miles of my house. The sunlight must REACH the ground first before we can even access it. And unlike gas which simply needs a spark to ignite, solar energy comes as photos of light, which must be converted to DC electricity first through a complicated process, then it must be inverted into AC, phase aligned to feed it into the grid, then goes away at night or every time a cloud passes by. Sheesh.

Besides, refinement of the many fractions of crude old is essential to supplying literally hundreds if not thousands of products we need to live for everything from fuel to cleaners, lubricants, cosmetics, products, and food.

Virtually everything you need and use in your life directly or indirectly relies on fossil fuel.

Yes, fossil fuels are concentrated and convenient, but that’s a present day advantage, not a fundamental limit. Sunlight is orders of magnitude more abundant. Even after conversion losses, there’s enough to power civilization many times over. Storage, transmission, and conversion are engineering problems, not laws of nature.

All the complexity you're listing is exactly what engineers solve every day. Space-based or advanced terrestrial solar could bypass clouds and night entirely.

The Sun doesn’t care about grids, batteries, or engineers. Those are solvable human problems. The energy source itself is essentially limitless.

 

[toobfreak]

Yes, fossil fuels are concentrated and convenient, but that’s a present day advantage,

Do you know of any other advantage that matters?

Sunlight is orders of magnitude more abundant.

Sure, in space or on the Sun. There is ZERO sunlight available outside my window right now.

Even after conversion losses, there’s enough to power civilization many times over. Storage, transmission, and conversion are engineering problems, not laws of nature.

Only in theory. And WHOOPS! First you make a false claim about availability then admit it is limited by technology--- just a few nasty engineering problems to overcome, like figuring out HOW. And all those solutions come at a cost raising the price of the energy higher and higher until it become available but unaffordable.

All the complexity you're listing is exactly what engineers solve every day.

I know, I was an engineer, and there are no ready-made solutions just around the corner for what I've mentioned.

Space-based or advanced terrestrial solar could bypass clouds and night entirely.

Yep, just capture that sunlight from orbit or some high mountain then pipe it to earth by a really long power cord.

The energy source itself is essentially limitless.

Gravity is an even more unlimited energy source. ITMT, nothing wrong with solar if you can afford it and it works for you. And if someday it gets to where it can practically take over 100% of our energy needs, we won't need a government mandate or you trying to shill for it on the web; just as the horse was replaced with automobiles, the industry will switch to solar all by itself to save money.

 

[Anomalism]

Do you know of any other advantage that matters?


Sure, in space or on the Sun. There is ZERO sunlight available outside my window right now.


Only in theory. And WHOOPS! First you make a false claim about availability then admit it is limited by technology--- just a few nasty engineering problems to overcome, like figuring out HOW. And all those solutions come at a cost raising the price of the energy higher and higher until it become available but unaffordable.


I know, I was an engineer, and there are no ready-made solutions just around the corner for what I've mentioned.


Yep, just capture that sunlight from orbit or some high mountain then pipe it to earth by a really long power cord.


Gravity is an even more unlimited energy source. ITMT, nothing wrong with solar if you can afford it and it works for you. And if someday it gets to where it can practically take over 100% of our energy needs, we won't need a government mandate or you trying to shill for it on the web; just as the horse was replaced with automobiles, the industry will switch to solar all by itself to save money.

I have openly and repeatedly admitted solar's current limitations. I've also said it's not ready to replace fossil fuels yet, and that we shouldn't try to force it. Shill for solar? Seriously?

Congratulations. You disappointed me.

Also, I'm surprised by your lack of imagination. Must be an engineer thing. Lol

 

[toobfreak]

I have openly and repeatedly admitted solar's current limitations. I've also said it's not ready to replace fossil fuels yet, and that we shouldn't try to force it.

I have degrees both in electrical and electronic engineering, so, no, you are not going to blow any smoke about solar up my ass.

Also, I'm surprised by your lack of imagination. Must be an engineer thing. Lol

I worked for impatient money. One company I worked for, when they had a breakdown, was losing (so I heard) about $10,000 a minute in downtime. No time to be imaginative, no time for theories, just git er done.

But if it helps you any, I'm very imaginative and have created many inventions of my own. But hey, I'm all for solar! I think the idea is cool. All it needs now is time to come to fruition and achieve its full potential, which will be when you can put a thin, light, cheap, easily replaceable coating over most anything and produce electricity from it.

 

[Anomalism]

I have degrees both in electrical and electronic engineering, so, no, you are not going to blow any smoke about solar up my ass.


I worked for impatient money. One company I worked for, when they had a breakdown, was losing (so I heard) about $10,000 a minute in downtime. No time to be imaginative, no time for theories, just git er done.

But if it helps you any, I'm very imaginative and have created many inventions of my own. But hey, I'm all for solar! I think the idea is cool. All it needs now is time to come to fruition and achieve its full potential, which will be when you can put a thin, light, cheap, easily replaceable coating over most anything and produce electricity from it.

If you weren't a dick you would have noticed sooner that we actually are almost in complete agreement about solar.

I think you just lack some futuristic imagination.

 

[toobfreak]

If you weren't a dick you would have noticed sooner that we actually are almost in complete agreement about solar.

I knew that days ago. If you weren't such an ass, you would have noticed that days ago too and saved yourself the last ten pointless, clueless, argumentative messages to me. Not sure what keeps triggering you just because I state the obvious that if/when solar comes to its full fruition, it will take over the energy sector without any mandate just as the gas-powered vehicle took over for the horse, the cellular phone took over for the landline, or the CD took over for the LP.

I think you just lack some futuristic imagination.

Nah, I have tons of it, I'm just PRACTICAL about it, restraining myself to the doable instead of just mere wishfulness.

BTW, if you read more carefully, I just leaked a hint the other day about how electricity can be made from wind cheaply and easily without the need for any big, ugly bird-killing windmills.

 

[Anomalism]

I knew that days ago. If you weren't such an ass, you would have noticed that days ago too and saved yourself the last ten pointless, clueless, argumentative messages to me. Not sure what keeps triggering you just because I state the obvious that if/when solar comes to its full fruition, it will take over the energy sector without any mandate just as the gas-powered vehicle took over for the horse, the cellular phone took over for the landline, or the CD took over for the LP.


Nah, I have tons of it, I'm just PRACTICAL about it, restraining myself to the doable instead of just mere wishfulness.

BTW, if you read more carefully, I just leaked a hint the other day about how electricity can be made from wind cheaply and easily without the need for any big, ugly bird-killing windmills.

Why call me a solar shill if you knew that? That's the part that disappointed me, not your observation that the free market will do the work once solar is good enough. I never disagreed with that, nor did I oversell where solar is today.

In fact I wouldn't be surprised if you've never seen somebody defending AGW science while simultaneously being reasonable about alternative energy. I've never seen it at least.

 

[Anomalism]

I knew that days ago. If you weren't such an ass, you would have noticed that days ago too and saved yourself the last ten pointless, clueless, argumentative messages to me. Not sure what keeps triggering you just because I state the obvious that if/when solar comes to its full fruition, it will take over the energy sector without any mandate just as the gas-powered vehicle took over for the horse, the cellular phone took over for the landline, or the CD took over for the LP.


Nah, I have tons of it, I'm just PRACTICAL about it, restraining myself to the doable instead of just mere wishfulness.

BTW, if you read more carefully, I just leaked a hint the other day about how electricity can be made from wind cheaply and easily without the need for any big, ugly bird-killing windmills.

By the way, don't fool yourself. All of our posts here are a pointless waste of time. Lol

I hope nobody comes here convincing themselves otherwise.

 

[toobfreak]

All of our posts here are a pointless waste of time.

Speak for your own.