Gosnell... Abortion Atrocities

[JoeB131]

[

Did you even read the grand jury report? That's a rhetorical question, of course, because it's evident that you did not. On the whole, your arguments are nonsensical. Instead of blaming the fact that Gosnell could operate because of pro-choicers not wanting to cause, as the Grand Jury report noted, an "undue burden to women" seeking to obtain an abortion (see: PPvC), you blame the fact that Gosnell could operate for years on the fact that abortions aren't free. Sorry, but that's extremely idiotic

I'm going to save your posts as proof that pro-choicers, in general, don't just want abortions to be legal; they want them to be free and paid for by someone else.

Oh, I absolutely want them to be paid for by someone else.

If those families can't afford the abortions, they can't afford the kids. So it's a pay me now or pay me later situation. I'd rather pay for one $300 first trimester abortion than 18 years of dependency followed by a person who is probably going to end up in prison for most of his life.

If only someone had aborted Charlie Manson before he was born.

On the politically motivated Grand Jury report- keeping in mind, the Judge threw out half the charges before it even GOT to a jury- the fact is, all the restrictive laws in PA didn't stop Gosnell from operating. They helped him. Because he became the choice of last resort.

 

[TemplarKormac]

Again, Gosnell is the result of the kind of world you religious whacks want.

If we had medicare in PA paying for abortions and clinics available to poor people, he wouldn't have existed.

Really? Sooo...only those who are 'religious' want Gosnell and his ilk to stop running abortion mills and sickening late term abortions? Really? So, this isn't about right or wrong?
wow...I must have missed something here...because I am not particularly religious and I would like to see the sick **** burn along with the others who seem to have no regard for human life.

Well, I'll agree, you did miss something.

The religious whacks are the ones that passed laws that kept RU-486 off the market for years.

The religous whacks are the ones who prevented Medicaid from paying for abortions. (The Hyde Amdendment, passed by my former congressman, Henry Hypocrite Hyde. )

The religious whacks are the ones who passed ridiculous laws trying to limit when an abortion could be provided in PA. (See Planned Parenthood v. Casey.)

Did they stop abortions from happening at Gosnell's? NOPE.

They just prevented safe ones from occurring.

Mifeprestone was approved for and distributed for use by qualified licensed physicians in 2000, Joe, it is available in all 50 states. It wasn't us religious whacks who kept it off the shelf, in 1989, the US banned its importation for personal use, a move which the French Firm Roussel Uclaf (who was the major manufacturer and progenitor of RU-486) supported. In 1994, Roussel Uclaf gave the U.S. drug rights to the Population Council in exchange for immunity from any product liability claims.

The Population Council supported clinical trials, and the drug was originally slated for use by qualified licensed physicians as early as 1996 when it went approvable, but the Daneco group (the distributor) withdrew briefly in 1997 due to being sucker punched by a corrupt business partner. And three years later it was finally approved by the FDA in September of 2000.

Ironically, many feminist groups opposed this drug if anything, alongside the "religious whacks" you speak of.

"What has been presented as a simple, pill-popping exercise is, in fact, an intensely medicalized and painful procedure which can involve up to four clinic visits and last 12 days."

--Pauline Connor (LI.B.) of Feminists Against Eugenics in England, 1992

RU-486: A Dangerous Drug

No, Joe. Stop spinning the facts.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Mifeprestone was approved for and distributed for use by qualified licensed physicians in 2000, Joe, it is available in all 50 states. It wasn't us religious whacks who kept it off the shelf, in 1989, the US banned its importation for personal use, a move which the French Firm Roussel Uclaf (who was the major manufacturer and progenitor of RU-480) supported. In 1994, Roussel Uclaf gave the U.S. drug rights to the Population Council in exchange for immunity from any product liability claims.

The Population Council supported clinical trials, and the drug was originally slated for use by qualified licensed physicians as early as 1996 when it went approvable, but the Daneco group (the distributor) withdrew briefly in 1997 due to being sucker punched by a corrupt business partner. And three years later it was finally approved by the FDA in September of 2000.

Ironically, many feminist groups opposed this drug if anything, alongside the "religious whacks" you speak of.

"What has been presented as a simple, pill-popping exercise is, in fact, an intensely medicalized and painful procedure which can involve up to four clinic visits and last 12 days."

Pauline Connor (LI.B.) of Feminists Against Eugenics in England, 1992

No, Joe. Stop spinning the facts.

A group called "Feminists Against Eugenics" can be taken about as seriously as "Jews for Jesus".

Fact was, the Morning After Pill was available in 1987. It took 13 years to get it approved in the US because religious whacks opposed it.

Again, the anti-Choice movement misses the days when women were property.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

You have nothing left to throw at me, sicko. Crawl back into that hole of yours and rethink your definitions of right and wrong. How are we restricting abortion to the poor? They have the same ability to reason as you and I do. If they would make better choices regarding their libido, maybe they would have no need for an abortion. If the condom is not an acceptable means of birth prevention, there are tons of affordable contraceptives out there on the market via prescription. And when I say affordable, I mean as low as 10 bucks.

What you want is to subsidize irresponsibility, and have zero concern for the poor or their safety. You'd rather there not be laws on abortion period, and that there would be more Gosnells out there that would not be bound by something as piddly as the law. That is the worst line of reasoning I have ever heard.

If you think this is because of Republicans, you are sorely mistaken, Joe. You can't just assign Gosnell to one side or the other. You are the most irrational human being I have ever come across.

Guy, guy, guy.

The poor do not have the same access to family planning the rich have, that's the point.

I have no problem with the regulation of abortion clinics to make them safe. But you guys pass laws that have nothing to do with safety to try to put them out of business.

Real world. Women are going to have abortions - NO MATTER WHAT THE LAW IS.

I simply want them to be safe, and **** the religious nuts, because honestly, just **** them.

Then what is Planned Parenthood, Joe? Are they not a provider of affordable first trimester abortions? Uh, isn't that why RU-486 was approved? Or are you conveniently leaving that out? And how are we passing laws? There are abortion clinics in my very city! We aren't putting them out of business, we are trying to make it safe for the woman, and for the child.

Yes, like I said before, you'd rather there be no law. That way, men like Gosnell could go on perpetrating their atrocities.

You are the whackjob, not me.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Then what is Planned Parenthood, Joe? Are they not a provider of affordable first trimester abortions? Uh, isn't that why RU-486 was approved? Or are you conveniently leaving that out? And how are we passing laws? There are abortion clinics in my very city! We aren't putting them out of business, we are trying to make it safe for the woman, and for the child.

Yes, like I said before, you'd rather there be no law. That way, men like Gosnell could go on perpetrating their atrocities.

You are the whackjob, not me.

The number of abortion clinics have been reduced in recent decades, largely because of the intimidation tactics of the nutters.

For instance, in PA, the number of abortion clinics have dropped from 20 to 13.

The fact is, you want to make it safe "for the child" by putting them out of business.

Because an abortion clinic isn't supposed to be safe for fetuses. You keep pretending fetuses are children. But they aren't.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

[

Did you even read the grand jury report? That's a rhetorical question, of course, because it's evident that you did not. On the whole, your arguments are nonsensical. Instead of blaming the fact that Gosnell could operate because of pro-choicers not wanting to cause, as the Grand Jury report noted, an "undue burden to women" seeking to obtain an abortion (see: PPvC), you blame the fact that Gosnell could operate for years on the fact that abortions aren't free. Sorry, but that's extremely idiotic

I'm going to save your posts as proof that pro-choicers, in general, don't just want abortions to be legal; they want them to be free and paid for by someone else.

Oh, I absolutely want them to be paid for by someone else.

I'm shocked. Shocked, I say.

If those families can't afford the abortions, they can't afford the kids. So it's a pay me now or pay me later situation. I'd rather pay for one $300 first trimester abortion than 18 years of dependency followed by a person who is probably going to end up in prison for most of his life.

So humans only have worth so long as someone (you) thinks they have some kind of financial worth to society? So does this mean if I can convince 50.1% of the population that you're a drain on society you can be killed? What about those people who live on welfare? We can kill them off, correct?

If only someone had aborted Charlie Manson before he was born.

Total non-sequitur worthy of no more response than this.

On the politically motivated Grand Jury report- keeping in mind, the Judge threw out half the charges before it even GOT to a jury- the fact is, all the restrictive laws in PA didn't stop Gosnell from operating. They helped him. Because he became the choice of last resort.

First of all, the judge "threw out" two charges, not half of them. Gosnell is facing near 300 counts, including murder. But moving on from that fact, you're leaving out a very important piece of information here, Joe; the law wasn't enforced, because no one was inspecting Gosnell's clinic to ensure it was enforced. If his clinic had been inspected on the regular, he would have been shut down years ago. Your "argument" ignores half of the equation. But I can't blame you. How else are you going to defend your position without first ignoring that which pokes holes in it?

Seriously, though, your arguments are pathetic. What's stopping Planned Parenthood from providing free abortions to all who want them? Nothing.

 

[JustSomeGuy]

[

Then what is Planned Parenthood, Joe? Are they not a provider of affordable first trimester abortions? Uh, isn't that why RU-486 was approved? Or are you conveniently leaving that out? And how are we passing laws? There are abortion clinics in my very city! We aren't putting them out of business, we are trying to make it safe for the woman, and for the child.

Yes, like I said before, you'd rather there be no law. That way, men like Gosnell could go on perpetrating their atrocities.

You are the whackjob, not me.

The number of abortion clinics have been reduced in recent decades, largely because of the intimidation tactics of the nutters.

For instance, in PA, the number of abortion clinics have dropped from 20 to 13.

The fact is, you want to make it safe "for the child" by putting them out of business.

Because an abortion clinic isn't supposed to be safe for fetuses. You keep pretending fetuses are children. But they aren't.

Why does it have to be because of the "nutters"? How do you not know it's not because of doctors simply becoming uncomfortable with the idea of killing babies?

And why do you keep repeating this thing about fetuses not being children. At least five different people have directed you to a dictionary, and each time you ignore their posts. Why do you hate the English language?

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

Mifeprestone was approved for and distributed for use by qualified licensed physicians in 2000, Joe, it is available in all 50 states. It wasn't us religious whacks who kept it off the shelf, in 1989, the US banned its importation for personal use, a move which the French Firm Roussel Uclaf (who was the major manufacturer and progenitor of RU-480) supported. In 1994, Roussel Uclaf gave the U.S. drug rights to the Population Council in exchange for immunity from any product liability claims.

The Population Council supported clinical trials, and the drug was originally slated for use by qualified licensed physicians as early as 1996 when it went approvable, but the Daneco group (the distributor) withdrew briefly in 1997 due to being sucker punched by a corrupt business partner. And three years later it was finally approved by the FDA in September of 2000.

Ironically, many feminist groups opposed this drug if anything, alongside the "religious whacks" you speak of.

"What has been presented as a simple, pill-popping exercise is, in fact, an intensely medicalized and painful procedure which can involve up to four clinic visits and last 12 days."

Pauline Connor (LI.B.) of Feminists Against Eugenics in England, 1992

No, Joe. Stop spinning the facts.

A group called "Feminists Against Eugenics" can be taken about as seriously as "Jews for Jesus".

Fact was, the Morning After Pill was available in 1987. It took 13 years to get it approved in the US because religious whacks opposed it.

Again, the anti-Choice movement misses the days when women were property.

That is completely untrue. Religious groups did actively oppose it, but they held no influence on its distribution here in the United States. If you can't stop being so thickheaded in order to realize this, you are hopeless and irrational. On October 23rd, 1988 France ordered Roussel Uclaf to restart distribution in Europe, after its majority shareholders and board voted to stop production of RU-486 on October 21st, 1988. Anti abortion groups did influence the decision, but the cessation in production only lasted two days.

Now what else do you have to throw at me? Nothing.

You cannot keep blaming religious people for the delay of a drug that did not reach our shores for consideration until 1989! Even after that, Roussel Uclaf did not seek U.S. approval, which led to the ban, not because of "religious fanatics." And you can't even counter the fact that the very same people who synthesized it, opposed its importation to the United States!

So just shut your pie hole. You can't win.

 

[JoeB131]

So humans only have worth so long as someone (you) thinks they have some kind of financial worth to society? So does this mean if I can convince 50.1% of the population that you're a drain on society you can be killed? What about those people who live on welfare? We can kill them off, correct?

Fetuses aren't people. So I'm for paying for abortions for the same reason I'm for paying for distrubuting rubbers. Preventing the birth of people who are unwanted is generally good for society.

On the politically motivated Grand Jury report- keeping in mind, the Judge threw out half the charges before it even GOT to a jury- the fact is, all the restrictive laws in PA didn't stop Gosnell from operating. They helped him. Because he became the choice of last resort.

First of all, the judge "threw out" two charges, not half of them. Gosnell is facing near 300 counts, including murder. But moving on from that fact, you're leaving out a very important piece of information here, Joe; the law wasn't enforced, because no one was inspecting Gosnell's clinic to ensure it was enforced. If his clinic had been inspected on the regular, he would have been shut down years ago. Your "argument" ignores half of the equation. But I can't blame you. How else are you going to defend your position without first ignoring that which pokes holes in it?

Seriously, though, your arguments are pathetic. What's stopping Planned Parenthood from providing free abortions to all who want them? Nothing.[/QUOTE]

Actually, he threw out three of the "Murder" charges and a dozen or so things related to mishandling fetal remains.

Gosnell's clinic was inspected. And they wrote him up and he paid the fines. But the fact that his clinic was dirty and delapidated (most medical facilities in the poorest parts of the country are) isn't the point. The point was, the politicians in PA, pandering to the bubba rednecks who live in the "T" between Philly and Pittsburgh, put a bunch of restrictions on abortion clinics that drove the ones who wanted to run good clean clinics out of business.

this is the problem with legislating morality in general. People who don't give a **** will just keep doing what they are doing.

 

[JoeB131]

[

That is completely untrue. Religious groups did actively oppose it, but they held no influence on its distribution here in the United States. If you can't stop being so thickheaded in order to realize this, you are hopeless and irrational. On October 23rd, 1988 France ordered Roussel Uclaf to restart distribution in Europe, after its majority shareholders and board voted to stop production of RU-486 on October 21st, 1988. Anti abortion groups did influence the decision, but the cessation in production only lasted two days.

Now what else do you have to throw at me? Nothing.

You cannot keep blaming religious people for the delay of a drug that did not reach our shores for consideration until 1989! Even after that, Roussel Uclaf did not seek U.S. approval, which led to the ban, not because of "religious fanatics." And you can't even counter the fact that the very same people who synthesized it, opposed its importation to the United States!

So just shut your pie hole. You can't win.

Guy, your side proves how PRO-LIFE it is by murdering abortion providers.

So, yeah, I can see why this French company didn't want to get in the middle of that crazy shit.

You probably don't realize how backwards Americans are seen in Europe. We are seen as gun-toting religious nutters who just don't get it. We're the retards of the industrialized world, and you religious whacks are responsible for much of it.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

Then what is Planned Parenthood, Joe? Are they not a provider of affordable first trimester abortions? Uh, isn't that why RU-486 was approved? Or are you conveniently leaving that out? And how are we passing laws? There are abortion clinics in my very city! We aren't putting them out of business, we are trying to make it safe for the woman, and for the child.

Yes, like I said before, you'd rather there be no law. That way, men like Gosnell could go on perpetrating their atrocities.

You are the whackjob, not me.

The number of abortion clinics have been reduced in recent decades, largely because of the intimidation tactics of the nutters.

For instance, in PA, the number of abortion clinics have dropped from 20 to 13.

The fact is, you want to make it safe "for the child" by putting them out of business.

Because an abortion clinic isn't supposed to be safe for fetuses. You keep pretending fetuses are children. But they aren't.

Actually, there are quite a few clinics within a 50 mile radius of Philadelphia, where this took place. And there are 1,783 Abortion providers in the US, as of 2008. The number has decreased by 38 since it's peak in 1982

Fact is, nearly 7 in 10 women aged 15-44 drive less than 50 miles to the nearest abortion provider. Two of them drive more than 50, and the last one drives over 100 miles.

You just don't get it, do you? Internet research is a hobby of mine. And you are out of your league, with your secularist rhetoric. Abortions are supposed to be safe for the mother before the 24th week of gestation. After that, no abortions after the 24th week, making it safe for the fetus, or the unborn child.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Why does it have to be because of the "nutters"? How do you not know it's not because of doctors simply becoming uncomfortable with the idea of killing babies?

They probably don't want to be added to this list.

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before and was also bombed subsequently, in 1984 and 2012.
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York.[10] His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at church in Wichita, Kansas.[11]

[

And why do you keep repeating this thing about fetuses not being children. At least five different people have directed you to a dictionary, and each time you ignore their posts. Why do you hate the English language?

Fetuses aren't people. And finding bizarre definitions that say there are ignore the law.

Abortion is legal. We don't charge people who have them with murder.

Even when abortion was ILLEGAL, women were never arrested for having them.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

First, lets break down your absurd post.

1. It's not relevant, pure and simple.

2. You were. Sitting there suggesting that if there were access to a competent doctor, Gosnell wouldn't have happened. That's like saying "if I weren't standing in front of your gun when you fired it, I wouldn't have been shot" fact is I still shot you and I would still need to be punished.

3. I don't have a religious agenda pertaining matters like this. Murder is murder. Politicization is foolish.

4. So? There are 1 million+ abortions per year in America.

5. He was, he had a license. He used his abilities for profit. He ran a racket. Threw the Hippocratic oath in the trash (no pun intended)

6. Hey, if women were apprised of the alternative, there would be no need for people as heinous as Gosnell.

7. Whats with the class warfare argument? What does it even matter to you? You aren't even a woman!

8. That's a prevaricated lie. How dare you insinuate such? I may not support abortion, but hey, I support responsibility too. You don't want a child? Wear a condom. If you don't wear a condom, get contraceptives. It shouldn't have to get to the point of performing a dangerous procedure on a woman, or killing a human child in the womb.

You are sad, really sad. You must have had something really bad to happen to you in your past to even contend such things. That's the only explanation I can come up with. Your hatred of religion is pervasive, you blood thirst for dead babies is clearly evident. Your partisanship is.. beyond the "neo" nomenclature. Your ideas and beliefs make a neo-liberal look like Mahatma Gandhi.

Guy, the only thing that happened to me is that rich people screwed me over professionally because you RELIGIOUS WHACKS voted them into power on the hope that they would impose your superstitions on the rest of us. Didn't happen, abortion is still legal, but you fuckwads did allow them to dismantle the middle class.

But to break it down.

1. - 96,000 Americans die EVERY YEAR because their careproviders are incompetant, drunk, lazy, or stupid. And guess what, you guys don't insist they all be prosecuted. In fact, quite the reverse, the plutocrats you guys put into power want to change the law so that those maimed by the boobs can't sue.

2. If these women got free abortions paid for by the state in the first trimester, we wouldn't have an issue. Period. Gosnell is the result of what happens when you guys get your way.

3. Do all those other posts when you post bible verses... yeah, you don't have a religous agenda at all.

4. Yes, there are. And there will be no matter what the law is. There are half a million abortion a year in the Philippines, a country where abortion is ILLEGAL. Women are going to get abortions no matter what the law is. Period.

5. Again- 96,000 Americans die due to medical negligence every year. They all had licenses, too. But they weren't performing procedures that makes Jesus cry, so you don't care about them.

6- This is almost a good point. If women got decent sex education, got decent access to contraception, and got access to easy abortions in the first trimester... you're right, Gosnell never would have happened.

7- The Class Warfare is that the rich women will still get abortions, and the poor will get victimized by the Gosnell's of the world.

8- Spoken like a 40 year old virign. If you aren't getting laid, why should anyone else be enjoying herself. I mean, really, I read a statement like that, and I just have to assume you've never had sex, have never been in that moment.

You are kind of sad because you are the kind of whipped dog that religion produces. It's why Religion has been the friend of every dictator in history.

1. Including abortion providers. But malpractice here would equate to the live birth of a child slated for abortion.

2. No. Gosnell happened because he wanted to turn a pretty penny. He forced these women to pay insane amounts of money to get an abortion.

3. You ask for examples of God's mercy? I simply gave them to you. That does not indicate a religious agenda on my part.

4. Once again, for the third and final time, proving to me that you would like there to be no laws on the books concerning abortion one way or the other. This would be a haven for those like Gosnell, who would run about freely taking advantage of poor innocent women.

5. See #1

6. At least we agree on something

7. That's fabricated bullshit, not worthy of a decent response.

8. Sorry, I'm not 40. I'm 25, Joe. How's it feel to be whipped by someone a third to half your age?

Yes, Joe, you are a sad individual. You have a deep seated personal hatred of others that needs to be checked out by a professional psychologist. I find it laughable that you sit there and blame everything on "religious whacks." When in all actuality, that's the only argument you have, despite its frailty.

 

[JoeB131]

[



Actually, there are quite a few clinics within a 50 mile radius of Philadelphia, where this took place. And there are 1,783 Abortion providers in the US, as of 2008. The number has decreased by 38 since it's peak in 1982

Fact is, nearly 7 in 10 women aged 15-44 drive less than 50 miles to the nearest abortion provider. Two of them drive more than 50, and the last one drives over 100 miles.

You just don't get it, do you? Internet research is a hobby of mine. And you are out of your league, with your secularist rhetoric. Abortions are supposed to be safe for the mother before the 24th week of gestation. After that, no abortions after the 24th week, making it safe for the fetus, or the unborn child.

Or we just let women and their doctors decide, and you keep your ******* nose out of it.

You don't like abortions- DON'T HAVE ONE!

That sounds like a pretty simple rule to me.

The thing is, the number of abortion providers HAS decreased because the religous whaks have spent years murdering them.

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

Why does it have to be because of the "nutters"? How do you not know it's not because of doctors simply becoming uncomfortable with the idea of killing babies?

They probably don't want to be added to this list.

March 10, 1993: Dr. David Gunn of Pensacola, Florida was fatally shot during a protest. He had been the subject of wanted-style posters distributed by Operation Rescue in the summer of 1992. Michael F. Griffin was found guilty of Gunn's murder and was sentenced to life in prison.
July 29, 1994: Dr. John Britton and James Barrett, a clinic escort, were both shot to death outside another facility, the Ladies Center, in Pensacola. Rev. Paul Jennings Hill was charged with the killings. Hill received a death sentence and was executed on September 3, 2003. The clinic in Pensacola had been bombed before and was also bombed subsequently, in 1984 and 2012.
December 30, 1994: Two receptionists, Shannon Lowney and Lee Ann Nichols, were killed in two clinic attacks in Brookline, Massachusetts. John Salvi was arrested and confessed to the killings. He died in prison and guards found his body under his bed with a plastic garbage bag tied around his head. Salvi had also confessed to a non-lethal attack in Norfolk, Virginia days before the Brookline killings.
January 29, 1998: Robert Sanderson, an off-duty police officer who worked as a security guard at an abortion clinic in Birmingham, Alabama, was killed when his workplace was bombed. Eric Robert Rudolph, who was also responsible for the 1996 Centennial Olympic Park bombing, was charged with the crime and received two life sentences as a result.
October 23, 1998: Dr. Barnett Slepian was shot to death with a high-powered rifle at his home in Amherst, New York.[10] His was the last in a series of similar shootings against providers in Canada and northern New York state which were all likely committed by James Kopp. Kopp was convicted of Slepian's murder after finally being apprehended in France in 2001.
May 31, 2009: Dr. George Tiller was shot and killed by Scott Roeder as Tiller served as an usher at church in Wichita, Kansas.[11]

[

And why do you keep repeating this thing about fetuses not being children. At least five different people have directed you to a dictionary, and each time you ignore their posts. Why do you hate the English language?

Fetuses aren't people. And finding bizarre definitions that say there are ignore the law.

Abortion is legal. We don't charge people who have them with murder.

Even when abortion was ILLEGAL, women were never arrested for having them.

So, you let these guys speak for the rest of us? How dishonest. It's like me saying that Bill Ayers speaks for all Liberals. It is an intellectually dishonest assertion.

By eight weeks, a fetus has all of the genetic precursors and physical characteristics of a human being. So, tell me, how are thy not people? Just because the law says so? How about because science says so.

Say it ain't so, Joe.

 

[JoeB131]

[



4. Once again, for the third and final time, proving to me that you would like there to be no laws on the books concerning abortion one way or the other. This would be a haven for those like Gosnell, who would run about freely taking advantage of poor innocent women.

No, laws didn't stop Gosnell. Theystopped the people who were concerned. This is the argument you gun nuts make.. but it's more true with abortion.

So instead of trying to regulate them out of business... simple rule. You kill your ADULT patients, you get put on trial. You lose your license and we seize all your assets.

[

8. Sorry, I'm not 40. I'm 25, Joe. How's it feel to be whipped by someone a third to half your age?

Well, you act like you're ten...but don't worry, you'll still be a virgin at 40. Your method of birth control seems to be your personality.

Yes, Joe, you are a sad individual. You have a deep seated personal hatred of others that needs to be checked out by a professional psychologist. I find it laughable that you sit there and blame everything on "religious whacks." When in all actuality, that's the only argument you have, despite its frailty.

Not at all. In the parts of the world where they ignore religious whacks this isn't an issue.

It's that we let them have too much power here that's the problem. The only good thing is most of you are sooo stupid you don't realize you are being manipulated. Which is why abortion is still legaland always will be.

 

[JoeB131]

[

So, you let these guys speak for the rest of us? How dishonest. It's like me saying that Bill Ayers speaks for all Liberals. It is an intellectually dishonest assertion.

By eight weeks, a fetus has all of the genetic precursors and physical characteristics of a human being. So, tell me, how are thy not people? Just because the law says so? How about because science says so.

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Science says that they aren't either.. which is why doctors abort them.

Even the bible says that fetuses aren't people, but the bizarre whacks have realized that "women are property" isn't selling anymore, so they are going with plan b- "What about the babies".

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

Actually, there are quite a few clinics within a 50 mile radius of Philadelphia, where this took place. And there are 1,783 Abortion providers in the US, as of 2008. The number has decreased by 38 since it's peak in 1982

Fact is, nearly 7 in 10 women aged 15-44 drive less than 50 miles to the nearest abortion provider. Two of them drive more than 50, and the last one drives over 100 miles.

You just don't get it, do you? Internet research is a hobby of mine. And you are out of your league, with your secularist rhetoric. Abortions are supposed to be safe for the mother before the 24th week of gestation. After that, no abortions after the 24th week, making it safe for the fetus, or the unborn child.

Or we just let women and their doctors decide, and you keep your ******* nose out of it.

You don't like abortions- DON'T HAVE ONE!

That sounds like a pretty simple rule to me.

The thing is, the number of abortion providers HAS decreased because the religous whaks have spent years murdering them.

Out of the nearly 1,800 providers, only six have been murdered. That has occurred over a 16 year time span. Oh lookie here, no murders of abortion doctors since 2009.

Why don't you keep your nose out of it, then? Out of her ****, and out of her business. You are a man, who by right has no right to opine on women's reproductive health (well, that is, according to the neo-feminists on the pro-choice end).

Religious whacks this, religious whacks that. Everything is the fault of "religious whacks." Yet the worst they do is picket outside the premises, the exceptions being those idiots who took it to a completely irrational and unacceptable level. Yes, most of this as you deem unacceptable behavior are people exercising their First Amendment rights to peaceably assemble.

I don't have the time to picket, nor do I wish to. It is unproductive, just like your arguments.

If a woman wants the rights to her own body, she shouldn't spread her legs. It's quite a simple rule actually. If she wants to remain unbound by the shackles of motherhood, abstinence is the best and ultimately effective means of birth control. With the exception of rape, the woman has a choice. But after she decides that she would give in to her sexual desires, without asking her man/partner to wear a condom, she is solely responsible for her behavior.

A lot of these women become pregnant due to this oversexed society we live in. They succumb to this paradigm that "promiscuous sex and multiple partners are normal."

Now, how much more can you take, Joe?

 

[TemplarKormac]

[

So, you let these guys speak for the rest of us? How dishonest. It's like me saying that Bill Ayers speaks for all Liberals. It is an intellectually dishonest assertion.

By eight weeks, a fetus has all of the genetic precursors and physical characteristics of a human being. So, tell me, how are thy not people? Just because the law says so? How about because science says so.

Say it ain't so, Joe.

Science says that they aren't either.. which is why doctors abort them.

Even the bible says that fetuses aren't people, but the bizarre whacks have realized that "women are property" isn't selling anymore, so they are going with plan b- "What about the babies".

Nope. If you would read the book of Jeremiah

"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, before you were born I set you apart; I appointed you as a prophet to the nations."

Jeremiah 1:5

Also scientific texts such as Moore and Persaud’s The Developing Human, Larsen’s Human Embryology, Carlson’s Human Embryology & Developmental Biology, and O’Rahilly and Mueller’s Human Embryology & Teratology suggest otherwise.

I'm ignoring the rest of that farce you call an argument. I do not, nor have I ever objectified women. Where you get such a notion is beyond me.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Out of the nearly 1,800 providers, only six have been murdered. That has occurred over a 16 year time span. Oh lookie here, no murders of abortion doctors since 2009.

Why don't you keep your nose out of it, then? Out of her ****, and out of her business. You are a man, who by right has no right to opine on women's reproductive health (well, that is, according to the neo-feminists on the pro-choice end).



If a woman wants the rights to her own body, she shouldn't spread her legs. It's quite a simple rule actually. If she wants to remain unbound by the shackles of motherhood, abstinence is the best and ultimately effective means of birth control. With the exception of rape, the woman has a choice. But after she decides that she would give in to her sexual desires, without asking her man/partner to wear a condom, she is solely responsible for her behavior.

A lot of these women become pregnant due to this oversexed society we live in. They succumb to this paradigm that "promiscuous sex and multiple partners are normal."

Now, how much more can you take, Joe?

NO, I just laugh at the misogyny of you people.

You must really hate women, don't you?

Because, honestly, this is what it's about... hating women for controlling their own sexuality.