Goodbye Space Shuttle Goodbye Jobs!

[Contessa_Sharra]

I live down here on the Space Coast. I live about 20 miles from Cape Canaveral. I watched the first manned shots go up from my front yard. All the tecnology was here in Brevard County until LBJ became the Prez and moved most of it to his home state of Texas.

Yes the shuttle era is ending but there will still be shots from the Cape. They will be rockets instead of the Shuttle. Some have already lost jobs and some are being retrained. This will not be easy on Brevard County. But like everything else, things change. They change all the time. We, like others will just have to adapt.

Unfortunately, over the course of the last fifty or so years, military-industrial complexes have come and gone in a lot of areas. Base closings, too. . .

Brevard county is sorta-coastal, so it seems like there would be a lot of possibilities...... it has that inland waterway "Miami Beach" thing going for it......

 

[rightwinger]

I live down here on the Space Coast. I live about 20 miles from Cape Canaveral. I watched the first manned shots go up from my front yard. All the tecnology was here in Brevard County until LBJ became the Prez and moved most of it to his home state of Texas.

Yes the shuttle era is ending but there will still be shots from the Cape. They will be rockets instead of the Shuttle. Some have already lost jobs and some are being retrained. This will not be easy on Brevard County. But like everything else, things change. They change all the time. We, like others will just have to adapt.

Good luck to your area. The work done at the Cape was vital to our nation. There is still a lot of high tech work out there. We are losing Defense jobs where I live. You have to be able to adapt

 

[Navy1960]

Are you suggesting that the aging fleet continue to fly so small businesses nearby can do better?

No, I'm suggesting two things actually one I already posted, the other is, if the Govt. is interested in Stimulating the economy then they only need to look at the Shuttle model and see how many PRIVATE industries a program like it creates in order to justify creating real Stimulus. When given the chance to actually do things like this, the Govt. actually has suggested cutting the program that will be the follow-on to the shuttle. What I suggest is that real Stimulus is not just looking for shovel ready road projects that may or may not be built but supporting programs that create long term economic jobs, pubilc and private.

I thought that a lot of folks were against "make work" programs.....


Is this one of those spend a million so a $50,000.00 job doesn't end?

Is the jobs thing related to the way people voted?


Brevard has been red for three elections now!

For example, out of a $2.4 trillion budget for 2005, less than 0.8% was spent on the entire space program! That's less than 1 penny for every dollar spent. And not much has changed from then…except that the technology improvements keep coming.And that last point is key!

Most people do not know the tremendous advancement of environmentally friendly technical advancements (and other technology advancements) that are a direct offspring from the US Space Program. This article has been written to highlight these facts.

It has been conservatively estimated by U.S. space experts that for every dollar the U.S. spends on Research and Development in the US Space Program, it receives $7 back in the form of corporate and personal income taxes from increased jobs and economic growth.

Besides the obvious jobs created in the aerospace industry, thousands more jobs are created by many other companies applying NASA technology in non-space related areas that affect us daily.
The US Space Program Benefits by Chuck Clayton

As mentioned above Contessa , I'm not advocating keeping the Space Shuttle as a make work project, but to advocate cutting manned space flight or scaling back of a follow-on such as the ARES I because some do not see a benefit, then I suggest they are not looking very far. These are not make work projects, they are a matter of national interest, surely you don't think that we should just abandon space and outsource it to China like we do everything else are you? A lot of advancements we take for granted today are a direct result of the manned space flight program, some of which I listed above. There are not just Govt. Jobs these are private industry jobs, long term one's that support everything from advancements in aviation fuel you use in the airlines you fly, to the food you eat. I have heard over and over again how National healthcare is a funtion of the General Welfare well, I ask you, is not helping to promote the advancement of technology for the benefit of mankind, and creating an atmosphere for the creation of long term jobs doing just that? I will also remind you that NASA is not just a red state issue, and will tell you that cutbacks in manned space flight will effect thousands of jobs across the nation red and blue alike.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

No, I'm suggesting two things actually one I already posted, the other is, if the Govt. is interested in Stimulating the economy then they only need to look at the Shuttle model and see how many PRIVATE industries a program like it creates in order to justify creating real Stimulus. When given the chance to actually do things like this, the Govt. actually has suggested cutting the program that will be the follow-on to the shuttle. What I suggest is that real Stimulus is not just looking for shovel ready road projects that may or may not be built but supporting programs that create long term economic jobs, pubilc and private.

I thought that a lot of folks were against "make work" programs.....


Is this one of those spend a million so a $50,000.00 job doesn't end?

Is the jobs thing related to the way people voted?


Brevard has been red for three elections now!

For example, out of a $2.4 trillion budget for 2005, less than 0.8% was spent on the entire space program! That's less than 1 penny for every dollar spent. And not much has changed from then…except that the technology improvements keep coming.And that last point is key!

Most people do not know the tremendous advancement of environmentally friendly technical advancements (and other technology advancements) that are a direct offspring from the US Space Program. This article has been written to highlight these facts.

It has been conservatively estimated by U.S. space experts that for every dollar the U.S. spends on Research and Development in the US Space Program, it receives $7 back in the form of corporate and personal income taxes from increased jobs and economic growth.

Besides the obvious jobs created in the aerospace industry, thousands more jobs are created by many other companies applying NASA technology in non-space related areas that affect us daily.
The US Space Program Benefits by Chuck Clayton

As mentioned above Contessa , I'm not advocating keeping the Space Shuttle as a make work project, but to advocate cutting manned space flight or scaling back of a follow-on such as the ARES I because some do not see a benefit, then I suggest they are not looking very far. These are not make work projects, they are a matter of national interest, surely you don't think that we should just abandon space and outsource it to China like we do everything else are you? A lot of advancements we take for granted today are a direct result of the manned space flight program, some of which I listed above. There are not just Govt. Jobs these are private industry jobs, long term one's that support everything from advancements in aviation fuel you use in the airlines you fly, to the food you eat. I have heard over and over again how National healthcare is a funtion of the General Welfare well, I ask you, is not helping to promote the advancement of technology for the benefit of mankind, and creating an atmosphere for the creation of long term jobs doing just that? I will also remind you that NASA is not just a red state issue, and will tell you that cutbacks in manned space flight will effect thousands of jobs across the nation red and blue alike.

Well I know we sure need satellites, what with communications, defense issues, and all, as well as TV, just the manned thing...... I wonder about that... there is so much to do here on the planet!

 

[Harry Dresden]

you people do realize that if we stop the manned space program, in 250 years, Jim Kirk will end up being a farmer or something....think about that....

 

[Big Black Dog]

Although I know there have been some good stuff developed for us here on the ground by the things NASA has done to put men into space, I have never been a great big fan of the whole "space exploration" endeavors. While the photos from the Hubble Telescope are beautiful and they have shown us lots of stuff, putting a man on the moon was indeed a national pride builder, and all the wonderful things the Space Shuttle Program has done, I think we could use a break in all of this - especially with the economy being in the shape it's in right now. We lived on this planet for almost 2000 year without going into space so I don't think a 10 or 15 year slow-down on the money spent on the space program would hurt us very much. I think we can use our money elsewhere with more benefit.

 

[Samson]

It is amazing the shuttles lasted as long as they did. They go through amazing stress with each flight.
They were truly remarkable technology

Well, except for
Challenger

And
Columbia

"Space isn't going anywhere." I agree.

If the Russians, or the Chinese, or the Aussies can produce a cheaper alternative, then good for them. I'm buying Shirts made in Bangladesh: Why can't I buy Satillite TV from Russians?

The last thing I wanna here about is poor ol' "Ganny's Diner" depending on my taxes proping up NASA so that sightseers keep her in business.

If all the innovations of NASA are really so great, then privatize it, and I'll buy stock, and it will finally have to stand on its own profitability. Otherwise, add it to the trash-heap of other private companies that are government entities: US Post Office and Amtrack.

 

[Contessa_Sharra]

Although I know there have been some good stuff developed for us here on the ground by the things NASA has done to put men into space, I have never been a great big fan of the whole "space exploration" endeavors. While the photos from the Hubble Telescope are beautiful and they have shown us lots of stuff, putting a man on the moon was indeed a national pride builder, and all the wonderful things the Space Shuttle Program has done, I think we could use a break in all of this - especially with the economy being in the shape it's in right now. We lived on this planet for almost 2000 year without going into space so I don't think a 10 or 15 year slow-down on the money spent on the space program would hurt us very much. I think we can use our money elsewhere with more benefit.

KEVLAR, LEXAN (high impact plastic) and HEPA filtering, also The MEMORY FOAM that is used in making bed mattresses. Here a cool one the mechanical SMOKE DETECTOR...

AND

Urban Legends of NASA: What They Did Not Invent

I think "space blankets, aka shock blankets" are pretty wonderful....

http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinfaq.htm

What Won't Nasa Invent Next? - Tim Swanson - Mises Institute

HowStuffWorks "10 NASA Inventions You Might Use Every Day"

NASA Spinoffs - Inventions Benefiting Our Daily Lives - Apollo Spinoff Inventions

 

[Harry Dresden]

Although I know there have been some good stuff developed for us here on the ground by the things NASA has done to put men into space, I have never been a great big fan of the whole "space exploration" endeavors. While the photos from the Hubble Telescope are beautiful and they have shown us lots of stuff, putting a man on the moon was indeed a national pride builder, and all the wonderful things the Space Shuttle Program has done, I think we could use a break in all of this - especially with the economy being in the shape it's in right now. We lived on this planet for almost 2000 year without going into space so I don't think a 10 or 15 year slow-down on the money spent on the space program would hurt us very much. I think we can use our money elsewhere with more benefit.

why dont we join with all the other space exploring nations and split the cost .....instead of spending 80 bil....maybe we might spend 20 bil....this way mankind goes forward together and everyone benefits.....

 

[Navy1960]

First of all of you pre-suppose that the Budget for NASA is so high that it comsumes a majority of funding of the Federal Budget.

2010 NASA Budget 18.6 Billion
DOD Budget 684 Billion
Dept. of Health 80.4 Billion
Dept. of Edu. 46.6 Billion
Dept of Energy 26.3 Billion
Medicare/Medicaid 758.9 Billion

This argument that somehow spending on space or manned space flight is a waste of money is a complete failed argument in terms of budget impact and should be obvious that the spending is offset by the tax revenue it generates from the jobs it creates, to the technology it transfers to the private sector, not to mention the knowledge gained about the planet in which we live. Grandma is not going to go without her check because of NASA anytime soon, in fact the office expenses alone for congress in 2005 exceeded 525 million dollars and I don't hear to many calling for the grounding of Air Force One, or the VIP fleet that carts congress around and expends tax dollars to the tune of 750,000 dollars a month per aircraft just for fuel on the VC-25's and this does not include the C-17's and the many other jets that haul congressional members around the nation yearly. Space capability if vital to not only our commerical interests as a nation it is also vital to our national security interests and while some think it's just a matter of calling up Russia on the phone or China and ordering a rocket like Wal-Mart does a load of shoes, it is a matter of protecting this nation which our Govt. as an obligation to do.

 

[rightwinger]

First of all of you pre-suppose that the Budget for NASA is so high that it comsumes a majority of funding of the Federal Budget.

2010 NASA Budget 18.6 Billion
DOD Budget 684 Billion
Dept. of Health 80.4 Billion
Dept. of Edu. 46.6 Billion
Dept of Energy 26.3 Billion
Medicare/Medicaid 758.9 Billion

This argument that somehow spending on space or manned space flight is a waste of money is a complete failed argument in terms of budget impact and should be obvious that the spending is offset by the tax revenue it generates from the jobs it creates, to the technology it transfers to the private sector, not to mention the knowledge gained about the planet in which we live. Grandma is not going to go without her check because of NASA anytime soon, in fact the office expenses alone for congress in 2005 exceeded 525 million dollars and I don't hear to many calling for the grounding of Air Force One, or the VIP fleet that carts congress around and expends tax dollars to the tune of 750,000 dollars a month per aircraft just for fuel on the VC-25's and this does not include the C-17's and the many other jets that haul congressional members around the nation yearly. Space capability if vital to not only our commerical interests as a nation it is also vital to our national security interests and while some think it's just a matter of calling up Russia on the phone or China and ordering a rocket like Wal-Mart does a load of shoes, it is a matter of protecting this nation which our Govt. as an obligation to do.

The space program is vital in terms of communications satellites, GPS, weather and intel. These things have a defined cost and benefit. Manned space exploration has questionable benefits in return for the cost involved. If Mars were made of gold, it would not be worth it to send men there to collect it and return to Earth.

Space probes are low cost alternatives to manned exploration. We can still get much of the same information without the risk

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The level of Ignorance in this thread is simply ASTOUNDING. Our very National Defense depends on us remaining in Space. Not to mention all the spin offs we get from space programs.

Go ahead give up Space to the Chinese and the Russians and in 20 years we will be a 3rd rate Country.

 

[bodecea]

The level of Ignorance in this thread is simply ASTOUNDING. Our very National Defense depends on us remaining in Space. Not to mention all the spin offs we get from space programs.

Go ahead give up Space to the Chinese and the Russians and in 20 years we will be a 3rd rate Country.

We're giving up space? Really?

 

[Navy1960]

First of all of you pre-suppose that the Budget for NASA is so high that it comsumes a majority of funding of the Federal Budget.

2010 NASA Budget 18.6 Billion
DOD Budget 684 Billion
Dept. of Health 80.4 Billion
Dept. of Edu. 46.6 Billion
Dept of Energy 26.3 Billion
Medicare/Medicaid 758.9 Billion

This argument that somehow spending on space or manned space flight is a waste of money is a complete failed argument in terms of budget impact and should be obvious that the spending is offset by the tax revenue it generates from the jobs it creates, to the technology it transfers to the private sector, not to mention the knowledge gained about the planet in which we live. Grandma is not going to go without her check because of NASA anytime soon, in fact the office expenses alone for congress in 2005 exceeded 525 million dollars and I don't hear to many calling for the grounding of Air Force One, or the VIP fleet that carts congress around and expends tax dollars to the tune of 750,000 dollars a month per aircraft just for fuel on the VC-25's and this does not include the C-17's and the many other jets that haul congressional members around the nation yearly. Space capability if vital to not only our commerical interests as a nation it is also vital to our national security interests and while some think it's just a matter of calling up Russia on the phone or China and ordering a rocket like Wal-Mart does a load of shoes, it is a matter of protecting this nation which our Govt. as an obligation to do.

The space program is vital in terms of communications satellites, GPS, weather and intel. These things have a defined cost and benefit. Manned space exploration has questionable benefits in return for the cost involved. If Mars were made of gold, it would not be worth it to send men there to collect it and return to Earth.

Space probes are low cost alternatives to manned exploration. We can still get much of the same information without the risk

For a first response, we turn to another renowned physicist, Dr. Stephen Hawking, who has urged the human race to "spread out into space for the survival of the species." Hawking states the increasing risk of being wiped out by a disaster, such as sudden global warming, nuclear war, or some other unknown danger as the primary reasons to diversify humanity's future beyond earth.

NASA has numerous examples of "spinoffs" from the space program, such as kidney dialysis machines, fetal heart monitors, programmable heart pacemakers, to name just a few that help Americans every day. Additionally, the International Space Station operations enable NASA to learn valuable scientific information about the long term effect of spaceflight on the human body, and how best to help humans adapt themselves for long trips, either in interplanetary space, or enroute to planets such as Mars.
SPACE.com -- Commentary: The Value of Human Spaceflight

You wanted to know the benefits of manned space flight, there you are just to name a few. That does not include technology transfers that people take for granted in commerical aviation when they step onboard a commercial flight or that civilian pilot.

2002: Three SBIR contracts with NASA’s Langley Research Center to research and develop a new, low cost,
lightweight recovery system for aircraft in both civilian and military markets resulted in a unique ballistic parachute
system that lowers an entire aircraft to the ground in the event of an emergency. These parachutes are designed to
provide a safe landing for pilots and passengers while keeping them in their aircraft, and a uniquely effective safety
technology in the event of engine failure, mid-air collision, pilot disorientation or incapacitation, unrecovered spin,
extreme icing, and fuel exhaustion. To date, over 200 lives have been saved as a result of this parachute system.The uniqueness of living and working in space teaches us to think in new ways. The weightless environment can
http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/hist_techtransfer.pdf

In my opnion there are few examples outside the US Military where the Govt. can rightly demonstrate they have benefited greatly from tax payer money. In an economy that looks for places to establish places to best spend money and create the environment for jobs and foster success this is one of them.

 

[Samson]

The level of Ignorance in this thread is simply ASTOUNDING. Our very National Defense depends on us remaining in Space. Not to mention all the spin offs we get from space programs.

Go ahead give up Space to the Chinese and the Russians and in 20 years we will be a 3rd rate Country.

Who said anything about never launching another spy satillite?

Frankly, I think its great all the $$$Billions$$$ that private industry, in every country, including Russia and China has been able to make from our taxpayer supported programs. But this success only Begs The Question: Isn't it about time the space industry is privatized?

As long as we support NASA, we support a government subsidised entity with which private industry cannot compete.

 

[rightwinger]

The level of Ignorance in this thread is simply ASTOUNDING. Our very National Defense depends on us remaining in Space. Not to mention all the spin offs we get from space programs.

Go ahead give up Space to the Chinese and the Russians and in 20 years we will be a 3rd rate Country.

Who said anything about never launching another spy satillite?

Frankly, I think its great all the $$$Billions$$$ that private industry, in every country, including Russia and China has been able to make from our taxpayer supported programs. But this success only Begs The Question: Isn't it about time the space industry is privatized?

As long as we support NASA, we support a government subsidised entity with which private industry cannot compete.

Space missions such as satellites have a definable benefit to what we pay for the mission. Space exploration eats up much more of the NASA budget and is harder to justify in hard economic times.

 

[dilloduck]

Agreed but a technology that NASA began to to develop too much of a love affiar with and one that never lived up to it's original design intentions. I submit that NASA's mismanagement has put it into the postion where there will be a gap in manned space flight and further enchanced the economic impact of the shuttle programs closure. They have come up with a good design in the ARES and if allowed come to life it will be a good follow-on.

I was never a big fan of manned flights. Loved the Mars rovers and the Hubble telescope. Manned flights for maintenance are fine, but unmanned projects are more cost effective

Do you understand the reason for manned flights?

Someone has to aim the death ray ?

 

[Navy1960]

death ray, I like that one dillo means they have been putting that star wars funding to good use. lol Anyway, I have tried to show in this thread that in terms of budget impact, benefits, and need, the argument that NASA is not needed or that manned space slight is too costly is a bit of a stretch at best.

 

[Ravi]

If you read the entire article you'll see that no one is giving up on space. Rather, they are refocusing on other matters than the shuttle...and the shuttle has outlived its usefulness.

As for the woman who fears her restaurant business will be hurt, I have my doubts. The space coast is the skankiest part of Florida and the tourist industry gets not much of a boost from shuttle watching that I can see. The place is a dive.

 

[Navy1960]

If you read the entire article you'll see that no one is giving up on space. Rather, they are refocusing on other matters than the shuttle...and the shuttle has outlived its usefulness.

As for the woman who fears her restaurant business will be hurt, I have my doubts. The space coast is the skankiest part of Florida and the tourist industry gets not much of a boost from shuttle watching that I can see. The place is a dive.

Ravi I'm talking about manned space flight here, and I think I made it pretty plain my feelings on the shuttle program and how it has outlived it's usefulness. The other issue I focused on is the contention that manned space flight is not worth the money spent on it and is best spent on earth.