God, religion, Science and a Post-Modern View of Science

[JakeStarkey]

Religion is about faith of evidence unseen, science is about evidence seen and repeatable.

SJ and his buds know not of what they speak.

And you cant even wuote St Paul correctly.

Damn you are a freaking loser and ahalf.

It's called paraphrasing. You still can't defend your position logically, because you have a logical fallacy in your argument. You can't disprove faith by science or science by faith.

You silly heads are so easy to deal with.

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,


1. I find it amusing when these crackpots pipe in (Obamerican), and all they do is show their atheist ass, and attack me the truth of this topic, and have *nothing* to stand on as far as the debate at hand.
2. Even on a bad day for me proves a lesson, good days like sunshine are a blessing.
3. Thanks Obama american.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[HUGGY]

Sorry bout that,


1. I find it amusing when these crackpots pipe in (Obamerican), and all they do is show their atheist ass, and attack me the truth of this topic, and have *nothing* to stand on as far as the debate at hand.
2. Even on a bad day for me proves a lesson, good days like sunshine are a blessing.
3. Thanks Obama american.

Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

I believe the operative word is "sorry".

 

[chesswarsnow]

Sorry bout that,

Huggy wrote:

"I believe the operative word is "sorry". "






1. ^^^^^Perhaps the biggest atheist crackpot of USMB!
2. Thanks, Huggy.
3. ............^^^^*Needs a Hug*


Regards,
SirJamesofTexas

 

[JakeStarkey]

Those with faith in faith offer nothing more than those with faith in science.

They 'know' what they 'know', but neither side can prove crack about the other.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Religion is about faith of evidence unseen, science is about evidence seen and repeatable.

SJ and his buds know not of what they speak.

And you cant even wuote St Paul correctly.

Damn you are a freaking loser and ahalf.

It's called paraphrasing.

Which means that is not what St Paul said, but your impression of what St Paul said, which is irrelevant.

You still can't defend your position logically, because you have a logical fallacy in your argument.

You can't disprove faith by science or science by faith.

Where did I say one disproved the other?

I dont think you actually read the OP, Jakey-pooh.

You silly heads are so easy to deal with.

Yeah, especially when you dont bother to actually grasp what is being stated.

My point is that changes in our CULTURE are undermining the common comprehension of science among the general population and this is going to impact the influence of science with future generations.

I was hoping to discuss what might be done to correct this, but it would seem the problem is rather recursive in that I appear to be trying to explain the problem to some people who predominately suffer from the malady I am trying to depict.

 

[rdean]

I love it when the right wing talks about "science".

It would be like me talking about the "Eskimo Religion". Something I don't even know if it exists.

Not very informative but occasionally entertaining.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Those with faith in faith offer nothing more than those with faith in science.

They 'know' what they 'know', but neither side can prove crack about the other.

For the most part, but there is some influence.

From where do we get the idea that the universe is orderly? Why cant it be that the spirit of Gaea is pulling her children to her bossom instead of gravity pulling things down according to our 'Law of Gravity'?

In the west we have come to think of the universe as not affected by spirits but instead by impersonal forces that we describe mathematically, but why?

Well, because Judeo-Christianity tells us the universe is orderly like the Mind of the Creator who designed it. And on this basis 500 years of Western society searched for laws to decribe the way God made the universe instead of doing libations to spirits to get their permission to let us procede as was common in the pagan world.

The success of Western science re-affirms that the universe is orderly and thus supports our faith in the accuracy of our understanding of God's revelation.

But for the most part, I agree, science and faith are paralel to each other and not in conflict or even really capable fo conflict except in regards to the most basic axioms of science itself.

 

[JimBowie1958]

I love it when the right wing talks about "science".

It would be like me talking about the "Eskimo Religion". Something I don't even know if it exists.

Not very informative but occasionally entertaining.

And I love it when arrogant narcisists like you deign to pronounce your whirlwind of bullshit to the rest of us unwashed heathen.

Go fuck yourself, dumbass.

 

[JimBowie1958]

So And yet were it not for the Judeo-Christian faith, science would never have had the influence on society that it has had in Western culture but now that our society is bleaching itself of all its Judeo-Christain values, science is returning to the mystical view that it had prior to the rise of Judeo-Christianity.

You funny! Make me laugh...longtime...

Just because you dont understand the point and it then somehow amuses you doenst mean that there is no validity to the point.

Why is it the case that in 1500 modern science was best practiced in the West while it had fallen into stagnation in the Ottoman Empire, the Arabs, the Indians and the Chinese?

Why did was it left for Europeans to weaponize black powder? To prove that the sun was the center of our solar system? To develop modern medicine and Universities?

Because we believed that the universe was not controled by arbitrary spirits with whimsical personalities. We believed that these things happened according to God's Laws and that it was therefore of benefit to explore what these laws were and to use them to our gain.

The very fact that we call the opperating principles of science 'Laws' points to our axiomatic assumption that an intelligence authored these laws instead of them being merely arbitrary behavior.

So laugh all you want; it does nothing to further your undrstanding of our world, our culture or how our culture and science have both evolved over the last millenia.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Where was it practiced before 1300 when Judeo-Christian Europe wallowed in the midst of darkness and confusion? "Heathen" Muslim middle east?

You are not very convincing.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Where was it practiced before 1300 when Judeo-Christian Europe wallowed in the midst of darkness and confusion? "Heathen" Muslim middle east?

First, I dont think the Muslim are heathen by any means, so dont project that onto me.

The scientific method was not really used outside Europe prior to the modern age, and not much by Europeans either. It was not a formalized concept at that time.

The Arabs, Chinese and Indians did make major advances in mathematics and other knowledge like alchemy, and the Muslims preserved much of the knowledge of ancient Rome. A lot of European mathematicians/philosophers/alchemists etc got some heavy influence from their Muslim counterparts saving us a lot of time re-inventing the wheel so to speak.

You are not very convincing.

You have to take the time to understand what you are reading before it can possibly become convincing, dude.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jim, you are beginning to expand the tent. Science has always been practiced. The Europeans built on the Muslims Arab and Persian learning. Your OP is bust.

 

[rdean]

So And yet were it not for the Judeo-Christian faith, science would never have had the influence on society that it has had in Western culture but now that our society is bleaching itself of all its Judeo-Christain values, science is returning to the mystical view that it had prior to the rise of Judeo-Christianity.

You funny! Make me laugh...longtime...

Just because you dont understand the point and it then somehow amuses you doenst mean that there is no validity to the point.

Why is it the case that in 1500 modern science was best practiced in the West while it had fallen into stagnation in the Ottoman Empire, the Arabs, the Indians and the Chinese?

Why did was it left for Europeans to weaponize black powder? To prove that the sun was the center of our solar system? To develop modern medicine and Universities?

Because we believed that the universe was not controled by arbitrary spirits with whimsical personalities. We believed that these things happened according to God's Laws and that it was therefore of benefit to explore what these laws were and to use them to our gain.

The very fact that we call the opperating principles of science 'Laws' points to our axiomatic assumption that an intelligence authored these laws instead of them being merely arbitrary behavior.

So laugh all you want; it does nothing to further your undrstanding of our world, our culture or how our culture and science have both evolved over the last millenia.

And you call me "ignorant"? Love it.

 

[rdean]

I love it when the right wing talks about "science".

It would be like me talking about the "Eskimo Religion". Something I don't even know if it exists.

Not very informative but occasionally entertaining.

And I love it when arrogant narcisists like you deign to pronounce your whirlwind of bullshit to the rest of us unwashed heathen.

Go fuck yourself, dumbass.

You just entertained me.

Dance "grinder Monkey", dance.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Jim, you are beginning to expand the tent. Science has always been practiced. The Europeans built on the Muslims Arab and Persian learning. Your OP is bust.

So you think science does not include the scientific method?

What was practiced prior to the SM was just trial and experiment with no widely recognised formal process at all.


Lol, you are a bust.

BTW, since I already stated that we built on what the Arabs and others passed on to us, why do you mention it like your rebutting my statement?

 

[JimBowie1958]

You just blahblahblah blah light a fart blah blah blah throw poop blah blah duh[/IMG]

lol

 

[JakeStarkey]

Jim, you are beginning to expand the tent. Science has always been practiced. The Europeans built on the Muslims Arab and Persian learning. Your OP is bust.

So you think science does not include the scientific method?

What was practiced prior to the SM was just trial and experiment with no widely recognised formal process at all.


Lol, you are a bust.

BTW, since I already stated that we built on what the Arabs and others passed on to us, why do you mention it like your rebutting my statement?

Your history lesson is flawed in places. We are not the end product of science historically, unless we blow ourselves up, which means that some other civilization will build on ours. Probably the neo-communist Confucians of China.

 

[Ancient lion]

Everyone has to read this paper:
"Embryology in the Qur’an: Scientific-Linguistic analysis of Surat Almu'minoon"

By Hamza Andreas Tzortzis
Here is the abstract:

“This paper is an analysis of chapter 23 verses 12 to 14 of the Qur’an in light of modern embryology. This study will provide a linguistic breakdown of the relevant verses and correlate these linguistic items to modern science. To ensure a comprehensive understanding of this study, an overview of qur’anic exegesis will be provided to appreciate how the Qur’an is made accessible and intelligible to the reader. This study will also address various contentions, which attempt to challenge the credibility of the qur’anic discourse and its concurrence with modern embryology.
In chapter 23 verses 12 to 14 the Qur’an provides eight meaningful points describing the process of the developing human embryo:

We created man from an essence of clay, then We placed him as a drop of fluid in a safe place. Then We made that drop of fluid into a clinging form, and then We made that form into a lump of flesh, and We made that lump into bones, and We clothed those bones with flesh, and later We made him into other forms. Glory be to God the best of creators.”

The paper pdf 7 MB:
www.iera.org.uk/downloads/Embryology_in_the_Quran_v1.1.pdf

Reading it, Be sure that the true religion and science never contradict.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Jim, you are beginning to expand the tent. Science has always been practiced. The Europeans built on the Muslims Arab and Persian learning. Your OP is bust.

So you think science does not include the scientific method?

What was practiced prior to the SM was just trial and experiment with no widely recognised formal process at all.


Lol, you are a bust.

BTW, since I already stated that we built on what the Arabs and others passed on to us, why do you mention it like your rebutting my statement?

Your history lesson is flawed in places.

Please share with me what those flaws are as you perceive them. I will happily correct any flaws you persuade me are indeed flaws.

We are not the end product of science historically, unless we blow ourselves up,

I am not sure how you see this statement relating to what I have said.

The development of a formal scientific process was the beginning of a progressive march toward a technological utopia that some refer to as the 'technological singularity'. I personally subscribe to the soft model of AI enhanced researched controled by human beings with amplified intelligence rather than a strong AI that is unfettered by human decisions. Technological singularity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I do not think that we are anywhere near an end of the chain here, quite the opposite.

which means that some other civilization will build on ours.

If we are destroyed, life will continue, and sentience (if temporarily snuffed out) will be reborn and will rebuild with or without aid of any vestigial technology from us. That is the worst case scenario, pretty muich, but I dont think we need worry about any of that as long as we realize that in the very near future it will become virtually impossible for another nation, no matter how powerful, to impose its will on another determined nation. Technology will become so advanced that even the smallest of nation will be able to engage in assymetric warfare that coudl severely penalize even the most powerful nations, even nuclear powers.

We absolutely must learn to understand the world views of other groups of people and find ways to discover common ground to build peaceful co-existance on. Iran and the Taliban are only the most immediate examples, and many more will follow them.

We must not only change our enemies way of thinking about us but we need to also make changes in our way of thinking also. Or else we are going to doom all mankind to eternal warfare and bloodshed that ends in who knows what.

Probably the neo-communist Confucians of China.

More likely the Christian Progressives of China.