Gingrich: Palestinians an ‘invented’ people

[Dr Grump]

Ok, if we accept the premise that Palestine could feed itself off of the fruits of olive trees, then let's move on to what it would take for that to happen. Let's determine first why Israel would impede the Palestinian agriculture efforts. Enlighten us if you will.

Oh, I don't know. It could have something to do with ethnic tensions, a Zionist government policy that is intent on fulfilling the ancient biblical promise for all of Canaan to belong to Israel, a concerted effort to undermine the Palestinian people in hopes of forcing them to submit to Israel, etc.

None of that tells me how the Palestinians would sustain their own country if they were given their own country today.

After all the rhetoric and shouting etc, that there, is the main question....

 

[konradv]

ROFL! Those wars had no connection with Israel crossing any imaginary "border" of Palestine. They were simply a naked attempt to wipe Israel off the face of the map. Furthermore, they failed. Israel still controls the territory you're attempting to call "Palestine." If we hadn't defeated the Nazis, then the nation of Poland would no longer exist. In fact, it doesn't exist in its pre-war form. It's a completely new nation that was created by the victorious powers.

You're changing the goalposts again. It was about crossing borders and then it's not. It's about whether the area ever had any independent states in the past and then it's not. You're just going to run us around in circles with crap until we get too tired to post, aren't you? The ONLY reason your ideas make ANY sense to you is because you aren't a Palestinian. If people from the next town walled you in and told where you could and couldn't travel, work and live, you'd have a little more understanding, I hope.

I'm not changing the goal posts. I'm simply correcting your deliberate misinterpretation of what said. According to no rational coherent understanding of the term is Palestine a country. You have admitted time and again that it doesn't have control over its own borders. That's pretty much the fundamental requirement for being a nation. "Palestine" is not sovereign over any square inch of the area it claims. You have admitted that multiple times.

The guy who claims to be Napoleon thinks his ideas make perfect sense. No one pays attention to the claims of lunatics, and all the people who claim Palestine is a nation are lunatics.

Whatever. It's really been decided anyway and the U.N. says yes. Sorry!

 

[konradv]

Ok, if we accept the premise that Palestine could feed itself off of the fruits of olive trees, then let's move on to what it would take for that to happen. Let's determine first why Israel would impede the Palestinian agriculture efforts. Enlighten us if you will.

Oh, I don't know. It could have something to do with ethnic tensions, a Zionist government policy that is intent on fulfilling the ancient biblical promise for all of Canaan to belong to Israel, a concerted effort to undermine the Palestinian people in hopes of forcing them to submit to Israel, etc.

Do you think it could have anything to do with the fact that anytime Israel let's her guard down, someone from inside those "occupied" territories starts lobbing rockets or visiting other parts of Israel wearing bombs strapped to their chests?

Let's try dealing with reality. Israel acquired the West Bank and Gaza by conquest when they were attacked by their Arab neighbors. The Arabs lost and as such lost the land. That has happened the world over since time began. Do you think if any of the Arab aggressors had held land in Israel in 1968 that they would have given it back? Why should Israel give back land that they won in battle?

Then at the very least they should make all residents full citizens of Israel. Either the land belongs to Israel and all residents are citizens or it's a seperate country with inviolate borders or it's some sort of ghetto, bantustan, etc. Which is it?

 

[Gadawg73]

None of that tells me how the Palestinians would sustain their own country if they were given their own country today.

First of all, it doesn't matter. It's not for us, or anyone else to say "Well, they wouldn't be able to sustain themselves without help, so we should just take it upon ourselves to dissolve their country."

Second, the region has sustained itself for thousands of years. There is this notion that Palestine cannot survive on its own, and that it should accordingly become one with Israel. I don't understand this bullshit. It's outright racist to presume that Palestinians cannot maintain their own country just because. It's completely unfounded. The main problems Palestine faces today are the fact that it is a land that has been ravaged by Israeli military campaigns for more than half a century. It's a war torn region. ANY country will suffer great hardships under such circumstances. Israel makes war against Palestine, and then people say "well look, things are bad for them, they must not be their own country." It's all predicated on an assumption that Israel is always right, everything they do is always right, and everything Palestine does is always wrong.

Palestine needs what every country needs, and that is peace. The only reason Israel has fared so well over the years is because the US has provided so much heavy aid to Israel, to include a hearty helping of military equipment.

You ain't in the middle. You are as far on one side as anyone could ever be.

 

[Gadawg73]

Ok, if we accept the premise that Palestine could feed itself off of the fruits of olive trees, then let's move on to what it would take for that to happen. Let's determine first why Israel would impede the Palestinian agriculture efforts. Enlighten us if you will.

Oh, I don't know. It could have something to do with ethnic tensions, a Zionist government policy that is intent on fulfilling the ancient biblical promise for all of Canaan to belong to Israel, a concerted effort to undermine the Palestinian people in hopes of forcing them to submit to Israel, etc.

Do you think it could have anything to do with the fact that anytime Israel let's her guard down, someone from inside those "occupied" territories starts lobbing rockets or visiting other parts of Israel wearing bombs strapped to their chests?

Let's try dealing with reality. Israel acquired the West Bank and Gaza by conquest when they were attacked by their Arab neighbors. The Arabs lost and as such lost the land. That has happened the world over since time began. Do you think if any of the Arab aggressors had held land in Israel in 1968 that they would have given it back? Why should Israel give back land that they won in battle?

And when do Israelis recruit women and children to strap on bombs, walk in schools, churches and religous areas, residential areas to purposefully kill innocent civilians?
And when does Isreal attack from command centers that are located in residential areas, hospitals, schools and religous areas?
Fact is the Palestinians are brutal thugs. They brainwash their own to kill themselves making them believe they will be in paradise with virgins and unlimited towels on their head for eternity.

 

[Gadawg73]

They were not Palestinians. They were various Arabs, Jews and camel jockeys.

At last, you show that your entire position is predicated on racism. Go along, now.

Me a racist?
I was fighting for civil rights for blacks in the mid 60s before you were sucking your mama's tit. Same for everyone and anyone. You will not find anyone that is more equal rights for everyone as me on this board.
Try again Moe. You ain't even close.
You go ahead and fight for those Palestinian thugs. If you believe they are not the most racist group on earth you are about as naive as they come.
They hate Jews. Get used to it. Isreal is the best friend we have in the region. Their intelligence alone, to those that know a little about those things as I have 30 years in the intelligence business, is worth ten times what we give Isreal annually.

 

[konradv]

They were not Palestinians. They were various Arabs, Jews and camel jockeys.

At last, you show that your entire position is predicated on racism. Go along, now.

Me a racist?
I was fighting for civil rights for blacks in the mid 60s before you were sucking your mama's tit. .

Nothing lately?!?!

 

[NYcarbineer]

So 1948 was the deadline to be a country? Is that just the Middle East, or everywhere?

No, 1948 is not a deadline. It's an historical fact. It's the date Israel became a nation with official borders that issue passports and citizenship. There is no corresponding date for the nation of "Palestine" because it never happened.

And you can't figure out that the Palestinians want what the Zionists wanted, BEFORE there was an Israel, with 'official borders'?

 

[NYcarbineer]

That's right, fuckstick, but after 1948 it was an actual country. "Palestine," on the other hand, was never an actual country. No one was ever a citizen of Palestine. No one ever received a passport from the country of Palestine.

Can you read the words at the top of that folder? What do they say? "British Passport", isn't it? So this would be a passport issued by the country of Great Britain, to someone who was in the British territory of Palestine when receiving it, right?

So the point stands that no one has ever received a passport from the country of Palestine, which has never existed, right?

Can't you imbeciles understand that the Palestinians want to make their homeland INTO a country?

There weren't any American passports 300 years ago either.

 

[JimBowie1958]

'Palestine' was the name the Romans gave what was known prior to that as 'Judea', the Wikipedia link and quote I provided document that.

No, it doesn't prove that at all. All you've demonstrated is that the Romans used the name Palestine. But you've ignored the fact that the name Palestine predates Roman usage. It predates the Kingdom of Judah. "Palestine" is not even a Latin word, which proves that it is not of Roman origin.

Lol, your assertion here is easily proven wrong.

Online Etymology Dictionary

Palestine from L. Palestina (name of a Roman province), from Gk. Palaistine (Herodotus), from Heb. Pelesheth "Philistia, land of the Philistines." Revived as an official political territorial name 1920 with the British mandate. Under Turkish rule, Palestine was part of three administrative regions: the Vilayet of Beirut, the Independent Sanjak of Jerusalem, and the Vilayet of Damascus.

The greeks had a different pronunciation than the one we have today which is drawn from the Roman name for the area, which ultimately came from the name for the Phillistines, and NO ONE called it that from the time of the Romans till the Brits took over. So there is no Palestinian people historically and they have nothing genetically to do with the Phillistines or any of that other idiotic crap you have been saying.

lololololololol, I could have shown this simple FACT earlier, but I wanted to see how stupidly you would deny the obvious, which you have done repeatedly.

Your response of 'go read the Torah' or 'go read Herodotus' is not a citation nor a rational response of any real value.

So a mischaracterized reference to wikipedia is a good reference, but documents that predate Roman control of the region is not? It's not of any real value to your inaccurate claims. That's about it.

No, my reference to Wikipedia was n ot incorrect, though it is apparent why you would want to change the subject.

You have to be the single most arrogant and ignorant poster I have seen at this web site.

Good Lord Almighty, please, give it up, but if you dont, I dont mind humiliating you repeatedly and will camp this thread till the end of time. I dont care how stupid you make yourself look.
lolol

 

[NYcarbineer]

Ironically,

Gingrich, for a decade or so, has been trying to re-invent himself.

 

[NYcarbineer]

Watch the great documentary 'Paris, 1919', about the peace accords after WWI, and you'll see how much of the modern world was invented by mapmakers and power brokers.

 

[Jroc]

[1. Everything you've said here is fals. Saying that ask Arabs are the same people is like saying that the Dutch, Germans, Franks, Slavs, British, etc are all the same people.


2. Just because someone presents facts that interfere with racists views of people who have an irrational hatred for Palestinians does not mean they hate Israel.

Notice I didn't have all the Arab countries listed genus. Genetically the people in that general area, the geographic location of what was once commonly known as "Palestine" Syria, Lebanon, and Jordanian people are more similar genetically. That’s why I say they are all the same people. For the most part Jews are also similar genetically to those people. Jews from Europe are more similar genetically to Jordanians ect.. Then they are to most European peoples

These areas were tribal communities for hundreds of years under the Ottomans and even before that, there were no countries there. The Jews started returning to their ancestral homeland with the Zionist movement, The Arabs also stated to flock to what would become the modern state of Israel because of the jobs. Jewish immigration was limited at times under the British, Arab immigration was not.

So It seems to me that that since all those Arabs in that area are made up of the same people and they already have most of the land, why do they keep wanting more? Let the Jews have their little country, But that’s not what it’s about, most of the muslims want no Jews and they would exterminate all of them if they were able. Got it now genus?


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kzlzDXWWRdM]Egyptian cleric Muhammad Hussein Ya'qub on Jews vs Geert Wilders trial in The Netherlands - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JimBowie1958]

No it is not. Arabs speak the same language,

There are several different dialects that the Arab world speaks.

No duh. I said same language, not same dialect.

Not only that, but the widespread usage of Arabic dialects does not magically erase the ethnic differences between the peoples.

I never said it did. Your straw man arguments are pointless and another indication of your ignorance and stupidity. Not to be rude or anything.

There are many distinct ethnicities within the US, yet we all speak English. Those peoples historically have had different languages at different points in history.

Which has nothing to do with my assertion, doofus.

all have the same religion

Religion has nothing to do with it.

It has everything to do with why the Arabs left the Arabian Peninsula, dumbass.

Ethnicity is not religion.

Another straw man argument, proving, once again, what ann ignoramus you are.

That's why there are many Jews like myself who do not follow Judaism.

I am not surprised that you cannot tolerate God being above you, lol.

Assyrians, Arabs, and Jews all have common ethnic origins if you go back far enough. But as populations increase and spread they have all branched off into their own ethnic groups, with smaller and distinct ethnic breakdowns. You just can't seem to understand this.

I understand it perfectly but that does not change the simple FACT that the Palestinian Arabs were just another group of Arabs who lived in a different set of provinces, and there was no 'ethnicity' to it till after 1948.

Despite the common origins of all these people, they still have developed into distinct ethnicities. If you reject calling all these people a singular ethnicity, then you must reject calling all Semitic people a singular ethnicity. If not, then you are singling out one group and making special rules that apply only to it, and nobody else.

The vast differences between Assyrians, Arabs and Jews are apparent and simply cannot be considered comparable to the minor differences between th e Arabs of Palestine, Egypt and Syria prior to 1948.

No, you're ignorant. While "British" can refer to all people from Great Britain, there are distinct ethnicities amongst them.

That is WHAT I SAID, DUMBASS. You were the one who refered to the British ethnic group, not me. lololol

Saying that all Arabs are one ethnicity would make as much sense as saying that all British are one ethnicity, or that all Americans are one ethnicity, or that all Africans are one ethnicity, or that all Jews are one ethnicity.

No, it does not compare at all; apples to oranges to compare the variations of Arabs to the variations of English speaking groups here in the US. The fact that you say that is just astonishingly stupid.

I think most of the hatred is directed at the acts of terrorism the Palestinians continue to commit

Israel commits acts of terrorism too.

Bullshit. The Isrealis do not target civilian populations with military force in order to terrorize them if for no other reason that they simply dont need to.

I have met several Palestinians, one of whom was Christian, BTW, not Muslim and they were all well educated and polite. But they absolutely hate Jews and Isreal, though they tried to disguise it as opposition to Zionism. Anytime any subject came up about Jews they got a seriously negative attitude and tone if what they said was not in itself blatantly antiSemite.

The Palestinians are an oppressed and occupied people, whose every effort for self determination and prosperity is trampled on by Israel. Who wouldn't hate one's oppressors as such?

Such rationalizations are used by all hateful people. The simple fact is that the typical Isreali killed by a rocket attack or at a bus stop by a suicide bomber has nothing to do with what these people think are the cause for their greivances. But haters dont care and retaliate in their twisted minds against everyone of the enemy group, no matter what their age, sex, or military status. It is pathetic you cant grasp that.

That is not anti-Semitism (and I repeat that this phrase as it is used, is itself a racist term). It's not prejudice and hatred on the base of race.

Sure it is, dumbass, because it is refusing to distinguish between the innocent and guilty of those they hate AS A GROUP.

It's hatred on the basis of being injured at the hands of Israel over and over again. There are plenty of Palestinians and Jews who get along very well, live side by side, may be best friends and hold a great deal of love for each other. After all, there are Jews who live in Palestine, and Palestinians who live in Israel. It's the politics that is the problem.

Well, we finally agree on something.

And the politics can change in a good way if the Palestinian leadership in the West Bank and Gaza would stop teaching their children to hate Isrealis.

 

[JimBowie1958]

Wrong. It was a different nation, and it was controlled by Christians or Jews in those times.

No. The Philistines had several city-states in the area. At times, they were vassals to Egypt, but largely were autonomous. When the Assyrians and Babylonians destroyed the Jewish kingdoms, the ancient Palestinians came to occupy the whole of Palestine, ...

LOL

The Phillistines HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE PALESTINIANS, DUMBS*%#(%!

lololol

 

[bripat9643]

So 1948 was the deadline to be a country? Is that just the Middle East, or everywhere?

No, 1948 is not a deadline. It's an historical fact. It's the date Israel became a nation with official borders that issue passports and citizenship. There is no corresponding date for the nation of "Palestine" because it never happened.

And you can't figure out that the Palestinians want what the Zionists wanted, BEFORE there was an Israel, with 'official borders'?

I don't give a **** what the Palestinians want. The minute they had a chance, they attempted to commit genocide against the Israelis. They strap bombs onto their children and send them into restaurants crowded with Jews to kill as many of them as possible. They are a tribe of murderous thugs. They all belong in a cage.

 

[bripat9643]

Can't you imbeciles understand that the Palestinians want to make their homeland INTO a country?

There weren't any American passports 300 years ago either.

Passports only came into existence after WW I.

The Palestinians haven't earned a homeland, and Israel would be crazy to grant them true statehood. They are thugs who kill their own children.

 

[Lakhota]

Newt Gingrich's Literal Embrace Of Yasser Arafat

 

[NYcarbineer]

Can't you imbeciles understand that the Palestinians want to make their homeland INTO a country?

There weren't any American passports 300 years ago either.

Passports only came into existence after WW I.

The Palestinians haven't earned a homeland, and Israel would be crazy to grant them true statehood. They are thugs who kill their own children.

The Israelis have killed more Palestinian civilians than Palestinians have killed Israeli civilians.

 

[editec]

There's been a place called PALESTINE much much MUCH longer than there's been a surname called GINGRICH/

One can ONLY conclude from that fact that the name GINGRICH is an invented name and that NO SUCH people really exist