Zone1 Getting the jump on the Easter debates.

[Woodznutz]

Q. Did Mary Magdelene visit Jesus' tomb early Sunday morning or the previous evening just after sunset?
A. What does the account in John 20 suggest?

 

[1srelluc]

Can't say but I have a half a honey ham in the freezer for the occasion.....I'm way ahead of ya.

 

[Woodznutz]

Can't say but I have a half a honey ham in the freezer for the occasion.....I'm way ahead of ya.

That would be true if I ate an Easter Sunday dinner.

 

[1srelluc]

That would be true if I ate an Easter Sunday dinner.

I'm agnostic but never pass-up a special occasion for a big spread.

 

[ozro]

Q. Did Mary Magdelene visit Jesus' tomb early Sunday morning or the previous evening just after sunset?
A. What does the account in John 20 suggest?

I had to look up John 20 because I am not Christian. From a Jewish standpoint, the day ends and begins at sunset. Therefore 'the previous evening just after sunset is morning. What I am saying is both your choices can be described as "early in the day before it was light".
Now, that brings up a question that has been debated between Christians and Jews since they both have existed;
What is the first day of the week?
Anyway, enjoy your Easter. I will enjoy my Pesauch.

 

[Woodznutz]

I had to look up John 20 because I am not Christian. From a Jewish standpoint, the day ends and begins at sunset. Therefore 'the previous evening just after sunset is morning. What I am saying is both your choices can be described as "early in the day before it was light".
Now, that brings up a question that has been debated between Christians and Jews since they both have existed;
What is the first day of the week?
Anyway, enjoy your Easter. I will enjoy my Pesauch.

Sabbath being the 7th of the seven days, the first day would be the following day.

 

[ozro]

Sunday is/was the first day of the week, Sabbath/Saturday being the 6th.

Maybe. I won't argue the point.
I always thought it was a little silly for Christians and Jews to argue about what the first day of the week is when the days are named after Roman gods that neither believe in.

 

[Woodznutz]

I'm agnostic but never pass-up a special occasion for a big spread.

True of my family as well.

 

[Woodznutz]

Maybe. I won't argue the point.
I always thought it was a little silly for Christians and Jews to argue about what the first day of the week is when the days are named after Roman gods that neither believe in.

I didn't think Christians and Jews argued over this, although many Christians believe that Sunday is the Christian Sabbath and that Saturday is the national playtime.

 

[ozro]

I didn't think Christians and Jews argued over this.

Of course they did, and do. It is why most Christians have their Sabbath on Sundays as opposed to the Jews Sabbath on Saturday.
You know, "on the seventh day you shall rest". The argument is silly, but especially in previous times the argument was quite real.

 

[Woodznutz]

I had to look up John 20 because I am not Christian. From a Jewish standpoint, the day ends and begins at sunset. Therefore 'the previous evening just after sunset is morning. What I am saying is both your choices can be described as "early in the day before it was light".
Now, that brings up a question that has been debated between Christians and Jews since they both have existed;
What is the first day of the week?
Anyway, enjoy your Easter. I will enjoy my Pesauch.

Ironically morning is also evening i.e. "Between the two evenings".

 

[onefour1]

John 20:1
1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

If the sabbath was the seventh day of the week and it was Saturday, then the first day of the week would be Sunday. According to AI a day in Jesus' time began at sunset and ended at the following sunset:

"
In the days of Jesus, a biblical day began at sunset and ended at the following sunset, following the Jewish tradition established in Genesis and maintained throughout the Old and New Testaments.

This understanding is supported by several key passages:

• Genesis 1:5 states, “And there was evening and there was morning, the first day,” establishing the pattern of evening preceding morning.
• Leviticus 23:32 explicitly commands the observance of the Day of Atonement from “evening to evening,” indicating that a day begins at sunset.
• John 19:42 records that Jesus was buried “just before the Sabbath began,” which occurred at sunset on Friday.
• Luke 23:54 confirms, “It was the preparation day, and the Sabbath was about to begin,” further aligning the start of the Sabbath (and thus the new day) with sunset.
• Acts 20:7 describes the disciples gathering “on the first day of the week” after sunset, which was the beginning of Sunday.

This system, known as the Jewish civil day, was universally followed by Jews in the first century, including Jesus and His disciples. It contrasts with the modern practice of beginning a day at midnight, which developed later with the adoption of the Gregorian calendar. "

From John 20:1 my belief is that Mary came to the sepulchre early in the morning when it was yet dark ("early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."). If it was in the beginning of the evening around sunset, then I don't think they would say, "when it was YET dark". While it was YET or STILL dark seems to imply that it was dark but getting close to being light again. Just my opinion.

 

[ozro]

Ironically morning is also evening thus. "Between the two evenings".

True enough, in English. But still, in English there is a difference between before midnight and after.

 

[fncceo]

Getting the jump on the Easter​

I just bought another 12 million shares of PAAS

 

[Woodznutz]

From John 20:1 my belief is that Mary came to the sepulchre early in the morning when it was yet dark ("early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre."). If it was in the beginning of the evening around sunset, then I don't think they would say, "when it was YET dark". While it was YET or STILL dark seems to imply that it was dark but getting close to being light again. Just my opinion.

The term "yet" is the hinge that the Easter Sunday resurrection tradition rests upon. As the narrative doesn't really support it, I studied the Greek word. Within the expository study of the word is a direct opposite meaning. I believe that the translators chose the term yet because it fits the strong belief in the Sunday morning tradition. This also reflects the mistranslation of pascha as Easter in the book of Acts. Further evidence that long held beliefs influenced the translators.

The better word would be "now" thus Mary came to the sepulcher when it was now dark, shortly after the end of the Sabbath day.

 

[onefour1]

The term "yet" is the hinge that the Easter Sunday resurrection tradition rests upon. As the narrative doesn't really support it, I studied the Greek word. Within the expository study of the word is a direct opposite meaning. I believe that the translators chose the term yet because it fits the strong belief in the Sunday morning tradition. Then they built the sentence structure around it to confirm it. This also reflects the mistranslation of pascha as Easter in the book of Acts. Further evidence that long held beliefs influenced the translators.

If each day was from sunset to sunset, even if it occurred the night before, it would still have fallen on Sunday. The first words of John 20:1 are, "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early,". The words "first day of the week" would imply that it for sure occurred on Sunday. It then is questioned when on Sunday did it happen? Was it in the evening before or in the morning. Obviously it was when it was YET or STILL dark. It could have been in the evening when it was dark or early in the morning when it was still dark. My opinion was that it was early in the morning while it was still or yet dark just based on the language. Who would say that it was still or yet dark just after sunset? I think it tends to suggest that is was early in the morning while it was YET dark. That is my reasoning and opinion.

 

[Woodznutz]

If each day was from sunset to sunset, even if it occurred the night before, it would still have fallen on Sunday. The first words of John 20:1 are, "The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early,". The words "first day of the week" would imply that it for sure occurred on Sunday. It then is questioned when on Sunday did it happen? Was it in the evening before or in the morning. Obviously it was when it was YET or STILL dark. It could have been in the evening when it was dark or early in the morning when it was still dark. My opinion was that it was early in the morning while it was still or yet dark just based on the language. Who would say that it was still or yet dark just after sunset? I think it tends to suggest that is was early in the morning while it was YET dark. That is my reasoning and opinion.

The problem is that it supports the concept of Resurrection Sunday, which isn't biblical. Jesus was resurrected at sundown on the Sabbath, exactly three days and three nights after he was interred.

 

[onefour1]

The problem is that it supports the concept of Resurrection Sunday, which isn't biblical. Jesus was resurrected at sundown on the Sabbath, exactly three days and three nights after he was interred.

Well, it is Biblical that the resurrection occurred on or before Sunday since the body was gone on the first day of the week which is Sunday. When we continue reading John 20 we have Jesus appear to Mary and then later to the apostles on the same day. The first day of the week was Sunday. The sabbath was on the seventh day of the week. I agree that it is possible that Jesus could have been resurrected on Saturday but the evidence of John 20 suggests he was either resurrected Sunday before Mary appeared early in the morning on Sunday or earlier perhaps Saturday. The verses of John 20 do not say Jesus was resurrected on that very Sunday being the first day of the week. They merely tell us that he was resurrected on or before that day.

There is much opinion on when exactly Jesus died and when the three days and three nights began. I have read that there may have been other days that were consider sabbaths that could have pushed his death to be before Friday. I don't personally have an opinion on what day of the week Jesus actually died. I know many believe it was Friday but I don't have a strong opinion on that. Here is an AI opinion on this topic:

The traditional Christian observance is that Jesus died on Good Friday, but biblical and chronological analysis suggests a different day.

Jesus most likely died on a Thursday, based on several key points:

• The Gospels state Jesus was in the tomb for "three days and three nights" (Matthew 12:40), which aligns with a Thursday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection.
• The day after Jesus’ death was a "high day" Sabbath (John 19:31), the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Leviticus 23:6–7), which occurred on Friday (Nisan 15), not the weekly Sabbath.
• This means two consecutive Sabbaths occurred: the high-day Sabbath on Friday and the regular weekly Sabbath on Saturday.
• Jesus was crucified on Thursday afternoon (Nisan 14), buried before the high-day Sabbath began at sunset, and rose before dawn on Sunday.

While many churches observe Good Friday, the timeline supports a Thursday crucifixion to fulfill the literal "three days and three nights" prophecy.

 

[Woodznutz]

Well, it is Biblical that the resurrection occurred on or before Sunday since the body was gone on the first day of the week which is Sunday. When we continue reading John 20 we have Jesus appear to Mary and then later to the apostles on the same day. The first day of the week was Sunday. The sabbath was on the seventh day of the week. I agree that it is possible that Jesus could have been resurrected on Saturday but the evidence of John 20 suggests he was either resurrected Sunday before Mary appeared early in the morning on Sunday or earlier perhaps Saturday. The verses of John 20 do not say Jesus was resurrected on that very Sunday being the first day of the week. They merely tell us that he was resurrected on or before that day.

There is much opinion on when exactly Jesus died and when the three days and three nights began. I have read that there may have been other days that were consider sabbaths that could have pushed his death to be before Friday. I don't personally have an opinion on what day of the week Jesus actually died. I know many believe it was Friday but I don't have a strong opinion on that. Here is an AI opinion on this topic:

The traditional Christian observance is that Jesus died on Good Friday, but biblical and chronological analysis suggests a different day.

Jesus most likely died on a Thursday, based on several key points:

• The Gospels state Jesus was in the tomb for "three days and three nights" (Matthew 12:40), which aligns with a Thursday crucifixion and Sunday resurrection.
• The day after Jesus’ death was a "high day" Sabbath (John 19:31), the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (Leviticus 23:6–7), which occurred on Friday (Nisan 15), not the weekly Sabbath.
• This means two consecutive Sabbaths occurred: the high-day Sabbath on Friday and the regular weekly Sabbath on Saturday.
• Jesus was crucified on Thursday afternoon (Nisan 14), buried before the high-day Sabbath began at sunset, and rose before dawn on Sunday.

While many churches observe Good Friday, the timeline supports a Thursday crucifixion to fulfill the literal "three days and three nights" prophecy.

The problem with a Sunday morning resurrection is that it puts his burial three full days earlier at about 4 o'clock in the morning.

 

[onefour1]

The problem with a Sunday morning resurrection is that it puts his burial three full days earlier at about 4 o'clock in the morning.

I don't think any verse tells us that Jesus was in the tomb for 72 hours. Matthew 12:40 tells us the following:

Matthew 12:40
40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

To if Jesus were in heart of the earth for a partial night or partial day I think this would count as him being in the tomb for that night or that day. Jesus was crucified and then placed into the tomb before sunset and thus was in the tomb on that day before the sun set. I don't think Jesus rose on Sunday morning after the sun came up. I think he either rose on Sunday night which came before Sunday day or he rose very early before sunrise while it was still dark. I think this would count as Sunday night that he was in the tomb for part of the night. So I see it as:

Thursday day
Friday night
Friday day
Saturday night
Saturday day
Sunday night

This gives us 3 days and 3 nights. Mary in John 20:1 tells us that Mary came to the sepulchre before the sun came up when it was yet dark:

John 20:1
1 The first day of the week cometh Mary Magdalene early, when it was yet dark, unto the sepulchre, and seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre.

Jesus had already risen by this time. If Jesus rose sometime during Sunday night then the 3 days and 3 nights would take us back to Thursday day when Jesus entered the tomb. If Jesus had risen on Saturday day then it would take us back to Thursday night, and so on and so on. But we know Jesus was crucified during the day and they hurried to get the crucifixions finished before sunset which was to bring on the next day which was a sabbath. So logic tells me that Jesus likely resurrected in a night if he was placed in the tomb during the day before sunset.