General McChrystal on Television Addresses Idea of Supporting a Draft

[Mushroom]

Actually, I have no real problem with this, as long as military service is not mandated.

To put it bluntly, a great many people in this country are either not eligable to serve in the military, nor should they be allowed or forced to do so. I think that any time I see some 350 pound piece of blubber buying the newest X-box game, or some kid walking out of a pot clinic with his weekly dose of happy weed. Putting these people in the military would kill them, or get them kicked out with a permanent bad record.

However, I do support the idea of National Service. Spend 2 years doing things like working for the Park Service, building fire breaks, even picking up trash on the side of our highways or staffing FEMA facilities after a disaster. Going into inner cities to remove grafiti and create-improve playgrounds. There are lots of things like this that can be done to help the Country, that do not require being in the military to do.

And it should be 100% mandatory, no exemptions other then the obvious (serious permanent physical restrictions, mental capacity, etc). For people that have obvious commitments (college for example), just break it up. Instead of 2 years straight, 3-6 month periods of service until the commitment is met.

I actually do believe in such a system, and anybody who has read the book Starship Troopers (not watched the movie) should have an idea how it can work.

 

[Desperado]

Actually, I have no real problem with this, as long as military service is not mandated.

Problem one: The government is still mandating that you give up 2 years of your life.
This is a "free" country and involuntary servitude is against the US Constitution.

To put it bluntly, a great many people in this country are either not eligable to serve in the military, nor should they be allowed or forced to do so. I think that any time I see some 350 pound piece of blubber buying the newest X-box game, or some kid walking out of a pot clinic with his weekly dose of happy weed. Putting these people in the military would kill them, or get them kicked out with a permanent bad record.

Really, so if you are fat, out of shape and a druggie, you can skip you mandated government service. Im sure that will slow the growth of the fat, the out of shape and the drug users.

However, I do support the idea of National Service. Spend 2 years doing things like working for the Park Service, building fire breaks, even picking up trash on the side of our highways or staffing FEMA facilities after a disaster. Going into inner cities to remove grafiti and create-improve playgrounds.

What do you expect those sentence to Community Service to do? Not to mention the government unions that would complain that you are taking their jobs by replacing them with government mandated slave workers.

And it should be 100% mandatory, no exemptions other then the obvious (serious permanent physical restrictions, mental capacity, etc). For people that have obvious commitments (college for example), just break it up. Instead of 2 years straight, 3-6 month periods of service until the commitment is met.

Again we run into the little thing about the US Constitution. Specifically; The Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution outlaws slavery and involuntary servitude, except as punishment for a crime. It was passed by the Senate on April 8, 1864, by the House on January 31, 1865, and adopted on December 6, 1865. On December 18, Secretary of State William H. Seward proclaimed it to have been adopted.

I actually do believe in such a system, and anybody who has read the book Starship Troopers (not watched the movie) should have an idea how it can work.

Nice now you want to live your life Sci Fi style.

 

[Mushroom]

Problem one: The government is still mandating that you give up 2 years of your life.
This is a "free" country and involuntary servitude is against the US Constitution.

What do you expect those sentence to Community Service to do? Not to mention the government unions that would complain that you are taking their jobs by replacing them with government mandated slave workers.

We have had Conscription in this country for decades, and it has never been considered "slavery", nor has it been deemed "Unconstitutional". So sorry, complete failure here. If this was the case, then we not even have a mandatory Selective Service registration, would we?

I simply believe that if it was mandatory, that there should not only be military service involved, but other forms of service that do not involve being in the military.

And come on now, the things I listed are not generally being done now, and are not "Government Union Jobs". In fact, a great many are not jobs at all, but tasks that volunteer groups get together to do (like picking up trash on beaches).

And no, we do not want the fat or druggies in the military. Short of putting them in confinement their entire tour of service, you would not get the druggies to clean up (and they are ineligable to serve in the first place). And the fat are generally unable to do the things the military requires of them.

 

[jillian]

bring back the fucking draft and some form of compulsory national service.

too many Americans have no sense of duty and service

if there were a choice between the military and public service of some other type, i might be able to get behind it.

but i don't think anyone should have to fight and die for wars of choice.

i do think, though, that if more people had a vested interest in the lives of the kids in afghanistan and iraq, we'd have had protests in the street demanding the end of the wars a long time ago.

 

[Desperado]

We have had Conscription in this country for decades, and it has never been considered "slavery", nor has it been deemed "Unconstitutional". So sorry, complete failure here. If this was the case, then we not even have a mandatory Selective Service registration, would we?

We don't have one now do we? Even when we did have it, it was always a debatable subject. Would not want to open that old wound. Might be a lot of blood letting to go with it.

I simply believe that if it was mandatory, that there should not only be military service involved, but other forms of service that do not involve being in the military.
And come on now, the things I listed are not generally being done now, and are not "Government Union Jobs". In fact, a great many are not jobs at all, but tasks that volunteer groups get together to do (like picking up trash on beaches).

Like I said, it is now called.... Community Service.
Many schools now require Voluntary Community Service for graduation, another thing I feel is morally wrong. "Mandatory Voluntary Community Service".
Courts also dole out Community Service as punishment for crimes.
Strange as it seems, I did not make up the complaint from the Union. In one city, a judge sentenced 2 kids convicted of vandalism by graffiti to paint the park benches they and others had defaced. The Union complained that this sentence was taking work away from their members. Google it if you are so inclined.

And no, we do not want the fat or druggies in the military. Short of putting them in confinement their entire tour of service, you would not get the druggies to clean up (and they are ineligable to serve in the first place). And the fat are generally unable to do the things the military requires of them.

You want to mandate Government Service for all, yet you give everyone an easy out. if you are Overweight or smoke pot you are excused from the mandate.
Do you realize how many more people just became overweight and decided to smoke pot?

Honestly, do you believe that there are no druggies in the military now or at any previous time?

 

[Mushroom]

We don't have one now do we? Even when we did have it, it was always a debatable subject. Would not want to open that old wound. Might be a lot of blood letting to go with it.

We do have a mandatory Registration, and have had one for decades.

Honestly, do you believe that there are no druggies in the military now or at any previous time?

No, we still have them, but they do not last long. Most times, a single or at most 2 positive drug tests, that person is gone. If you are overweight, you can't even go to boot camp. You can't graduate a school, you can't get promoted, you can't get an award. Generally the rule is that if you can't fall within weight limits within 1 year, you are gone.

 

[Desperado]

We do have a mandatory Registration, and have had one for decades.

So what? The point is we do not have a draft.... and that is a good thing a sure sign of a free country.

No, we still have them, but they do not last long. Most times, a single or at most 2 positive drug tests, that person is gone. If you are overweight, you can't even go to boot camp. You can't graduate a school, you can't get promoted, you can't get an award. Generally the rule is that if you can't fall within weight limits within 1 year, you are gone.

If it was only so easy to get out of the military during the Vietnam era, a failed drug test.
or a few pounds overweight. So it comes down to a combat patrol or smoking a joint and failing a drug test, guess which one most people would choose.

 

[Mushroom]

So it comes down to a combat patrol or smoking a joint and failing a drug test, guess which one most people would choose.

To go out on patrol and do their job. They all volunteered, and knew what they were getting into before they even joined.

Wow, you really have a piss-poor opinion of those in the military, don't you?

 

[Desperado]

So it comes down to a combat patrol or smoking a joint and failing a drug test, guess which one most people would choose.

To go out on patrol and do their job. They all volunteered, and knew what they were getting into before they even joined.

Wow, you really have a piss-poor opinion of those in the military, don't you?

Wow you didn't read my post....
From my post:
If it was only so easy to get out of the military during the Vietnam era, a failed drug test.
I was talking about the Vietnam Era.....and yes there were draftees in the military at the time

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Well the liberals should LOVE this idea and as we see all of a sudden McChrystal has become their new hero..

he must be bucking for a position in the Obama administration..He would fit right in

It's about a shared burden and duty, something today's right wingers and neocons wouldn't understand since most of their heroes were chickenhawks.

Most Capitalist Democracies with compulsory service are doing just fine. They don't hide, as people like you do, behind the less than 1% while pushing them to do more than should be required in a country as great as ours.

People like you need to be shamed and beaten in public floggings

some things deserve repeating, don't ya think?


dD

 

[Mushroom]

I was talking about the Vietnam Era.....and yes there were draftees in the military at the time

This is not the Vietnam era, that ended almost 40 years ago.

Why must so many try to turn the clock back 40+ years to try and make their point. This is no longer 1960-something.

 

[chikenwing]

Bad idea all around,gotta wonder what the real motivation behind the push for a draft is?

 

[Desperado]

This is not the Vietnam era, that ended almost 40 years ago.

Why must so many try to turn the clock back 40+ years to try and make their point. This is no longer 1960-something.

Because if you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.
The Draft was a bad idea then, it is a bad idea now.

 

[Mushroom]

Because if you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.
The Draft was a bad idea then, it is a bad idea now.

You seem to have missed something I said very early on. I also am opposed to a draft.

However, if it must be done, it should be done in a way that nobody was exempt from some kind of "Federal Service".

So I have no idea why you seem to believe that I support a draft, I strongly oppose one, for reasons very different from those you give.

 

[Desperado]

Because if you do not learn from history you are doomed to repeat it.
The Draft was a bad idea then, it is a bad idea now.

You seem to have missed something I said very early on. I also am opposed to a draft.

However, if it must be done, it should be done in a way that nobody was exempt from some kind of "Federal Service".

So I have no idea why you seem to believe that I support a draft, I strongly oppose one, for reasons very different from those you give.

It might have been the "however".

 

[MikeK]

i don't know that a draft would make economical sense. sure, you could cut out enlistment bonuses but you wouldn't be able to eliminate re-enlistment incentives. further, you'd be spending a lot training people that had no interest in staying, so that investment would return very little.

i do understand the sentiment of wanting more americans to have ties to their armed forces, but the truth is i don't think it would be good for the services or for the bottom line.

One very prominent benefit of conscription is the massive pool of trained soldiers in the civilian sector who can be activated and deployed in weeks rather than the months it takes to organize a draft and train raw recruits. And if that seems redundant in vew of the shift to technological warfare, don't make the mistake of thinking the days of the foot-soldier are over. Because the use of WMD by either side will quickly and inevitably evolve into Armageddon it's better to have sufficient ground forces to defend against invasion and avoid the need to use WMD. And right now the Chinese could march right over us with its massive armies.

If the cost of a draft is a major concern, consider if we had a conscripted military Bush could never have gotten approval from Congress to invade Iraq. We learned a lesson about questionable military adventures from Vietnam. As long as government can get away with luring enough cannon fodder into the ranks to continue nourishing the Military Industrial Complex and conduct corporatist wars the Iraqs and Afghanistans will never end. So the money we would have saved by not going to Iraq would more than compensate for the cost of conscription.

 

[whitehall]

The more you hear retired generals ranting about domestic and foreign policy the more you appreciate the Founding Fathers brilliant concept of placing the Military under the authority of the civilian government. Run for office or play golf but a retired general's opinion about politics is no more valuable than any other person.

 

[Borillar]

I believe this is the same "General" that wants to dis arm this nation too.

why would you put general in quotation marks?

He is retired, no longer a General.

You're retired. Should you therefore be a "Gunnery Sergeant"? Seems disrespectful to me. Polititians, judges, etc are still referred to by their former titles. Servicemen too, usually with a (Ret) - Gen Stanley McChristol, US ARMY (Ret)

 

[Desperado]

why would you put general in quotation marks?

He is retired, no longer a General.

Seems disrespectful to me.

No Shit sherlock
This man wants to disarm everyone then force them to join the military..
No exactly the American Ideals I grew up on.
Just to clear things up, I put "General" in quotations because I find it hard to
believe someone with these views could have actually been a general in our military.
Bottom Line is he deserves no respect.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

bring back the fucking draft and some form of compulsory national service.

too many Americans have no sense of duty and service

if there were a choice between the military and public service of some other type, i might be able to get behind it.

but i don't think anyone should have to fight and die for wars of choice.

i do think, though, that if more people had a vested interest in the lives of the kids in afghanistan and iraq, we'd have had protests in the street demanding the end of the wars a long time ago.

that's what it is...there are always conscientious objections