Gay Marriage is a Lie: Honest or Disagree?

[Kosh]

No, the problem is that there are those on the right so consumed by hatred for gay Americans that they would actually seek to compel gay Americans to ‘compromise’ with regard to their inalienable rights.

This is both very sad and very telling.

There is no inalienable right to get government benefits because you're shacking up with your **** buddy.

So they should be like me, and marry their **** buddy, although she prefers it when I call her Sweetheart.

Yep go out and get a worthless piece of paper with the word Marriage on it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

There is no inalienable right to get government benefits because you're shacking up with your **** buddy.

So they should be like me, and marry their **** buddy, although she prefers it when I call her Sweetheart.

Yep go out and get a worthless piece of paper with the word Marriage on it.

Worthless? Try invalidating it.

I guess you reject both God and tradition eh?

 

[emilynghiem]

Hi Bodecea: Thanks for your question.
Since not all people share my opinion, it is unconstitutional to force mine through govt.
That is not my approach.

What I seek for govt is to form a consensus that protects and includes all views equally, either agreeing on a policy or separating out. Since this choice comes from the PEOPLE first, as individuals, before it builds to a consensus to propose to govt, my focus has been to start with the PEOPLE. Get a consensus going first, and THEN govt reforms will follow.

If PEOPLE change their minds and agree to reform govt by consensus, that is constitutional. So most of my focus has been among the people to organize and align.

Some ways the public can form a consensus on govt and marriage:
1. agree to keep marriage in govt (and either agree on the terms or agree to disagree)
similar to agreeing on a moment of silence in schools instead of arguing about prayer
2. agree to remove govt from marriage and keep it private, and keep only the civil contracts under govt jurisdiction
3. agree how to WORD the laws so people can interpret differently and both be included without conflict
similar to how the first and second amendment are interpreted opposite ways using the "same law"
(EX: some focus on freedom of religion, other on not imposing religion; some focus on individual citizens' rights to bear arms, others interpret as regulated militia only)

It is not my place to dictate to anyone which way they believe in resolving the issue, and may vary by party or by state.
So that is why I advocate to PEOPLE to work toward Constitutional inclusion, and see who agrees to take that approach.

If enough PEOPLE agree, I can offer help to write out petitions or proposals from there.

BUT BODECEA, I HAVE NEVER EVEN FOUND ENOUGH PEOPLE TO GET TO THAT POINT!
THAT IS WHY I AM ON THIS BOARD AND OTHERS TRYING TO ORGANIZE IN GROUPS!
I CAN'T EVEN GET PAST STEP ONE, the PEOPLE, in order to get to the Parties and then to the Govt!

I have been struggling at ground zero just to find people who believe consensus is possible, much less legally necessary as I believe in order to be constitutional.

So that has been my full time focus, just to network to find "likeminded people" to set up the environment for the problem to be solved.
Whether people work to "agree" or to "separate," both approaches require people to AGREE to STOP bullying back and forth trying to overrule each other politically.

If we can't even stop the BULLYING we can't communicate to form a consensus.

Thanks for asking and I hope that answers part of your question.
if not, I went into more detail below, as to what has be en taking
all my time, resources, credit, energy and focus:
===================================================
To stop the bullying so consensus can be formed (on marriage, homosexuality or other church-state issues), here as two angles I've been investing in to work toward change:

A. educating people on spiritual healing and mediation to resolve conflicts in general, as well as to resolve the conflicts over gay marriage and if "homosexuality can be healed"

for some reason this "homosexuality" issue has become a HUGE sticking point, inciting flame wars and bullying blocking communication and the consensus process; so if this "homosexuality issue" can be resolved, so can the general policy or related conflicts.

I set up a website with links to resources for education and medical research on "spiritual healing", and personally bought, give out and mail out free books to help RESOLVE the issue of homosexuality that has divided people who didn't have the same information.

Gay marriage is only ONE of many church-state/constitutional issues that requires MEDIATION. But for some reason conflicts over "homosexuality" get disproportionate amount of attention. still if conflict resolution can be applied here, it still helps the universal process of resolving ALL church state issues, and partisan/states right conflicts.

There are so many competing conflicts and issues, the first step may be to organize by party and separate from govt. THAT has become a "full time job" workign with PEOPLE to agree how to best work together, before proposing ANYTHING to govt.

The more people agree to mediate conflicts to reach a consensus, we have more "leverage" to push party and govt leaders to enforce consensus as the standard on polices or issues that have "two opposing sides equally protected by law."

here is the website I set up to promote "spiritual healing" as one key factor to promote the consensus building process,
and to overcome conflicts and bullying otherwise blocking communication and "democratic due process."
http://www.spiritual-healing.us

I have also been working through these conflicts over "spiritual healing, homosexuality and church-state issues"
on other forums with other people I believe are key to writing out solutions once we get to that point.

Again, the same process of reaching consensus with even a few people from diametrically opposing
sides provides language and insights that can help promote similar understanding and agreement with
others facing the same conflicts to work out. this has taken YEARS because de ep ro oted human emotions
are involved; but I hope between these forums and the members who are pushing for Constitutional inclusion
and solutions, we can put together a consensus and get our party leaders and govt to follow that approach.

B. physical focus for pushing Constitutional reforms

I have been working two jobs and volunteering full time, investing resources around campus plans to set up Constitutional education based on a consensus model to stop political bullying that wastes millions on lobbying instead of solving the actual problems.
I learned the hard way, by watching irreplaceable national history get demolished at taxpayers expense, the cost of govt abuse when conflicts aren't resolved by consensus and "anything goes" with political bullying.

The good news is that because of the hardship suffered by this historic community, denied equal rights or recognition as citizens by our own govt abused to evict and demolish the community and restoration plans,
the compiled plans of community leaders and resides offer a model for reclaiming restitution and investing these into sustainable plans for managing a community independently by democratically elected council.
http://www.campusplan.org
http://www.freedmenstown.com

Again this approach of petitioning to redress grievances, or else to separate out as a self-governing body in order to represent and protect interests equally,
applies to mediating and resolving ANY ideological conflicts, not just with gay marriage as a church-state issue,
but with physical reforms that can separate and solve funding issues with the ACA and health care, death penalty and prisons, war and welfare spending, etc.

The campus plans I have compiled and presented to community members leaders and govt officials,
would also create a model site for "testing out reforms" BEFORE passing a policy, also to reduce the political bullying tactics.

I found we cannot solve one issue without solving them all, where the conflict with constitutionality
lies in "taking sides" instead of protecting ALL views and interests equally; our whole approach has to change.

A. focus A has been on the spiritual internal element of healing and change
B. focus B has been on setting up a physical model for demonstrating reforms
and if you want to count
C. focus on interacting with people online to work out the conflicts and get a consensus going before presenting to parties and to govt

Marriage (along with homosexuality/gay marriage) is only ONE of a host of Constitutional issues that requires educating the entire public on conflict resolution and Constitutional equality, which unfortunately our party system goes against.

The best way I know to win this war of ideologies is to change the whole approach,
or else it will never be resolved.

Instead of trying to chase after each and every instance of Constitutional violations,
I've been trying to set up ONE model district, using the historic church community which has an egregiously long history of political battles with govt and civil wrongs without due process. I figured if this historic district can be used as an example of mediation and restitution to restore Constitutional rights that were violated, the same can be done for ALL conflicts with church state, party, and government.

This historic church district where I live that has NEVER had equal constitutional rights recognized since its inception as a Freed Slave district. This is more than a full time job, but the same constitutional issues and solutions here apply to all other political conflicts.

So that is the key step I have been focusing on: organizing plans to convert this historic district into a center for MEDIATING all such conflicts as a model for EVERY city, state, Party and govt member to follow: to respect differences and mediate instead of bully.

This issue of marriage is only one of many areas where govt has crossed the line.

Fighting over marriage is a LUXURY compared with working two jobs to save national history that can never be replaced, while everyone is too distracted with other issues.

My original issue was equal property rights so people can be equal under law as anyone else. If citizens don't have equal standing as govt, politicians, political parties and corporations, then no amount of lobbying for reforms is going to protect our rights.

The first step in stopping govt abuse is to empower the people to enforce laws equally.
And that has to start with the PEOPLE.

sorry if your question was difficult to answer, as I am addressing this issue on several levels
to solve underlying problems before govt can reflect and represent a consensus of the people.

Gay Marriage Is A Lie: Lesbian Masha Gessen And Glenn Beck Agree

I ran into a disagreement with someone over Masha Gessen's statement
that Gay Marriage is a Lie. I thought she was being honest.

I believe that the religious and spiritual beliefs about marriage should remain private or through the church, and the state/govt should only handle civil contracts by consensus without any religious bias either way. So that part of marriage doesn't belong under govt jurisdiction.

What do you think?

Gay Marriage is a Lie: Destruction of Marriage, Masha Gessen - YouTube

What have YOU personally and actively done to get government out of the marriage business?

 

[OKTexas]

Ok so I am a lesbian and am married to my wife....I have a fully functional penis does this count?

May I ask you why you think a penis is required? We do just fine without one of those things around.....why is it you think they are the end all and be all?

Because without one of each part you can't have sex. Haven't figured that out yet?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Ok so I am a lesbian and am married to my wife....I have a fully functional penis does this count?

May I ask you why you think a penis is required? We do just fine without one of those things around.....why is it you think they are the end all and be all?

Because without one of each part you can't have sex. Haven't figured that out yet?

Really? My favorite sex act only requires what people here shoot off, their mouths, which would now be doing something useful for once.

 

[Kosh]

So they should be like me, and marry their **** buddy, although she prefers it when I call her Sweetheart.

Yep go out and get a worthless piece of paper with the word Marriage on it.

Worthless? Try invalidating it.

I guess you reject both God and tradition eh?

Oh what's this? Religion in Government?

(And yes I am agnostic)

Marriages were traditionally about land, money and power not love. Learn your history.

What happened to the whole separation of church and state? or it is always selectively applied by the far left?

Yes your worthless piece of paper has little to do with government. That is why I suggested that we remove marriage from government and use civil unions. That way everyone wins.

If you want to be "Married" then go to a church. You want to be legally bound to your partner recognized by the government be in a civil union.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Yep go out and get a worthless piece of paper with the word Marriage on it.

Worthless? Try invalidating it.

I guess you reject both God and tradition eh?

Oh what's this? Religion in Government?

(And yes I am agnostic)

Marriages were traditionally about land, money and power not love. Learn your history.

What happened to the whole separation of church and state? or it is always selectively applied by the far left?

Yes your worthless piece of paper has little to do with government. That is why I suggested that we remove marriage from government and use civil unions. That way everyone wins.

If you want to be "Married" then go to a church. You want to be legally bound to your partner recognized by the government be in a civil union.

I know the history, I just didn't know you. And trust me, it's not worthless. it's worth a lot. It's different world once you are married.

 

[OKTexas]

May I ask you why you think a penis is required? We do just fine without one of those things around.....why is it you think they are the end all and be all?

Because without one of each part you can't have sex. Haven't figured that out yet?

Really? My favorite sex act only requires what people here shoot off, their mouths, which would now be doing something useful for once.

Biologically no human sex act would include the mouth but thanks for playing.

 

[theliq]

Because without one of each part you can't have sex. Haven't figured that out yet?

Really? My favorite sex act only requires what people here shoot off, their mouths, which would now be doing something useful for once.

Biologically no human sex act would include the mouth but thanks for playing.

Shit,you ain't much Sexual Fun then

 

[Kosh]

Worthless? Try invalidating it.

I guess you reject both God and tradition eh?

Oh what's this? Religion in Government?

(And yes I am agnostic)

Marriages were traditionally about land, money and power not love. Learn your history.

What happened to the whole separation of church and state? or it is always selectively applied by the far left?

Yes your worthless piece of paper has little to do with government. That is why I suggested that we remove marriage from government and use civil unions. That way everyone wins.

If you want to be "Married" then go to a church. You want to be legally bound to your partner recognized by the government be in a civil union.

I know the history, I just didn't know you. And trust me, it's not worthless. it's worth a lot. It's different world once you are married.

So you need a piece of paper that says you are "Married"? And yes that piece of paper is worthless as the "Marriage" license was designed to raise money for the state (just like anything else of it's kind).

You have more legal documents that are far more valid than your worthless piece of paper that has the word "Marriage" on it.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Because without one of each part you can't have sex. Haven't figured that out yet?

Really? My favorite sex act only requires what people here shoot off, their mouths, which would now be doing something useful for once.

Biologically no human sex act would include the mouth but thanks for playing.

You couldn't be more wrong. Why do you think human lips and human labia are made of the same stuff? The lining of the mouth, roughly the same as the lining of the vagina. Sex for humans isn't about making babies. Reproduction hitched a ride during evolution.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You have more legal documents that are far more valid than your worthless piece of paper that has the word "Marriage" on it.

That's entirely incorrect. Just having that alone, in my state, means I don't even need to bother to write a Will. There are thousand of benefits that come my way. For a piece of paper, which it isn't, it's a government approved contract, it has enormous power.

How powerful you ask? I can kill you right in front of my wife, and bury you while she watches, and they can't even compel her to say that she ever heard of you let alone saw me kill and bury you. Now that's a contract.

 

[OKTexas]

Really? My favorite sex act only requires what people here shoot off, their mouths, which would now be doing something useful for once.

Biologically no human sex act would include the mouth but thanks for playing.

Shit,you ain't much Sexual Fun then

Guess you haven't figured out the difference between sex and playing. Both can be fun, but only one requires both parts.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Biologically no human sex act would include the mouth but thanks for playing.

Shit,you ain't much Sexual Fun then

Guess you haven't figured out the difference between sex and playing. Both can be fun, but only one requires both parts.

He's a hole in one kind of guy. I prefer two, three when she's in the mood.

 

[OKTexas]

Really? My favorite sex act only requires what people here shoot off, their mouths, which would now be doing something useful for once.

Biologically no human sex act would include the mouth but thanks for playing.

You couldn't be more wrong. Why do you think human lips and human labia are made of the same stuff? The lining of the mouth, roughly the same as the lining of the vagina. Sex for humans isn't about making babies. Reproduction hitched a ride during evolution.

Wrong in all the world and nature, sex is about making babies, all else is playing or masturbation. I thought you lefties were all about science, yet you abandon it quickly when you find it convenient. Hypocrite much?

 

[PaintMyHouse]

Biologically no human sex act would include the mouth but thanks for playing.

You couldn't be more wrong. Why do you think human lips and human labia are made of the same stuff? The lining of the mouth, roughly the same as the lining of the vagina. Sex for humans isn't about making babies. Reproduction hitched a ride during evolution.

Wrong in all the world and nature, sex is about making babies, all else is playing or masturbation. I thought you lefties were all about science, yet you abandon it quickly when you find it convenient. Hypocrite much?

Learn biology. That's nothing like it. Start with these guys: Bonobo - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

They have sex just to keep the peace. Not a bad idea actually.

 

[Kosh]

You have more legal documents that are far more valid than your worthless piece of paper that has the word "Marriage" on it.

That's entirely incorrect. Just having that alone, in my state, means I don't even need to bother to write a Will. There are thousand of benefits that come my way. For a piece of paper, which it isn't, it's a government approved contract, it has enormous power.

How powerful you ask? I can kill you right in front of my wife, and bury you while she watches, and they can't even compel her to say that she ever heard of you let alone saw me kill and bury you. Now that's a contract.

Maybe outside of the US, no state requires anyone to have a will, but what some think as automatic truly don't exist. Without a will the state can com in and seize all your worldly goods and leave your wife nothing, she can also be denied your SS benefits.

So yes your piece of paper with term "Marriage" is worthless. Well unless you live in certain Muslim countries where you can legal beat your wife if she fails to perform her wifely duties. Is that the power you are talking about?

Your other analogy just goes to show how sick minded you truly are and why the far left should never be in power of anything.

 

[Silhouette]

Maybe outside of the US, no state requires anyone to have a will, but what some think as automatic truly don't exist. Without a will the state can com in and seize all your worldly goods and leave your wife nothing, she can also be denied your SS benefits.

So yes your piece of paper with term "Marriage" is worthless. Well unless you live in certain Muslim countries where you can legal beat your wife if she fails to perform her wifely duties. Is that the power you are talking about?

Your other analogy just goes to show how sick minded you truly are and why the far left should never be in power of anything.

According to Windsor, all "gay marriages" performed in California and other states forbidding it in their Constitution are illegal and not worth the paper they're written on. Everyone debating these topics here should first read Windsor/DOMA and then come back to the debate with a more concrete feel for how the US Supreme Court is likely to act when the cult of LGBT v Utah comes before them this year.

 

[PaintMyHouse]

You have more legal documents that are far more valid than your worthless piece of paper that has the word "Marriage" on it.

That's entirely incorrect. Just having that alone, in my state, means I don't even need to bother to write a Will. There are thousand of benefits that come my way. For a piece of paper, which it isn't, it's a government approved contract, it has enormous power.

How powerful you ask? I can kill you right in front of my wife, and bury you while she watches, and they can't even compel her to say that she ever heard of you let alone saw me kill and bury you. Now that's a contract.

Maybe outside of the US, no state requires anyone to have a will, but what some think as automatic truly don't exist. Without a will the state can com in and seize all your worldly goods and leave your wife nothing, she can also be denied your SS benefits.

So yes your piece of paper with term "Marriage" is worthless. Well unless you live in certain Muslim countries where you can legal beat your wife if she fails to perform her wifely duties. Is that the power you are talking about?

Your other analogy just goes to show how sick minded you truly are and why the far left should never be in power of anything.

Boy do you guys need to learn about the law. For a simple and cheap contract, nothing beats a Marriage License. Yes, you can end up in Probate, and yes the SSA can fight benefits, but that has little to do with the actual power of a Marriage License.

As for the example, learn why spouses cannot be force to testify against each other. It's the only contact in the US that allows for such an exemption.

 

[WorldWatcher]

Ok so I am a lesbian and am married to my wife....I have a fully functional penis does this count?

May I ask you why you think a penis is required? We do just fine without one of those things around.....why is it you think they are the end all and be all?

Because without one of each part you can't have sex. Haven't figured that out yet?

Biologically no human sex act would include the mouth but thanks for playing.

Silly me, as a Republican I believed that Bill Clinton was having sex when he got a hooter from Monica in the Oval Office.


Jee, all these years I've been wrong because I didn't believe him when he said "I didn't have sex with that woman."


Go figure.


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