Freedom

[midcan5]

'Freedom' is heard often: as an ideal, a goal, sometimes apology. Some claim they represent freedom and others are presumably opposed to freedom. Certain ideas make freedom possible while others do not. So what is freedom? Is it just a word that changes meaning dependent on the user or use? Or is there a real thing called freedom?

 

[dblack]

Yeah, lots of equivocation and ambiguity around the word. The kind of freedom I'm interested in preserving essentially boils down to being able to live our lives without being bullied. Protecting this freedom is the core purpose of government in my view.

 

[midcan5]

Yeah, lots of equivocation and ambiguity around the word. The kind of freedom I'm interested in preserving essentially boils down to being able to live our lives without being bullied. Protecting this freedom is the core purpose of government in my view.

That is often called negative freedom, not being coerced, how about positive freedom, what can we do? Many think government's role is coercion? Thanks for input, hopefully some of those who throw around the word reply.

 

[spectrumc01]

Freedom is the gilded cage, but is it so bad?

True freedom can only be achieved when you are alone. The moment you introduce a second person into the mix freedoms are immediately restricted. The first person does not have the right to kill the second person or visa versa. The more civilized you become the more freedoms you sacrifice.

So the question becomes what freedoms are we willing to curb and which ones are we not willing to sacrifice, and that will tell us what kind of society we want.

 

[dblack]

Yeah, lots of equivocation and ambiguity around the word. The kind of freedom I'm interested in preserving essentially boils down to being able to live our lives without being bullied. Protecting this freedom is the core purpose of government in my view.

That is often called negative freedom, not being coerced, how about positive freedom, what can we do? Many think government's role is coercion? Thanks for input, hopefully some of those who throw around the word reply.

The 'positive' and 'negative' freedom distinction doesn't work for me. It just seems like an attempt to expand the role of government by playing games with words. It's well established (in the US) that government should protect our freedoms, so there's been a movement to smuggle in an entirely different concept trojan style, and pretend it's 'just another kind' of freedom. It's not.

Regardless, 'positive' freedom (which boils down to nothing less than the "right" to coerce others into others providing you with goods and services) isn't something government should allow, much less protect.

 

[Mr. H.]

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...

 

[jillian]

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...

and nothin' was all that bobby left me...

 

[there4eyeM]

Freedom is being in tune with life and the universe. When desires are one with what is happening, we are abundantly free.

 

[dblack]

Freedom is being in tune with life and the universe. When desires are one with what is happening, we are abundantly free.

There's also "free" as in "free beer", but I think it's safe to say the OP is discussing freedom in the political context - i.e. constitutionally protected rights.

 

[Oddball]

Yeah, lots of equivocation and ambiguity around the word. The kind of freedom I'm interested in preserving essentially boils down to being able to live our lives without being bullied. Protecting this freedom is the core purpose of government in my view.

That is often called negative freedom, not being coerced, how about positive freedom, what can we do? Many think government's role is coercion? Thanks for input, hopefully some of those who throw around the word reply.

The 'positive' and 'negative' freedom distinction doesn't work for me. It just seems like an attempt to expand the role of government by playing games with words. It's well established (in the US) that government should protect our freedoms, so there's been a movement to smuggle in an entirely different concept trojan style, and pretend it's 'just another kind' of freedom. It's not.

Regardless, 'positive' freedom (which boils down to nothing less than the "right" to coerce others into others providing you with goods and services) isn't something government should allow, much less protect.

"Negative freedoms" has become the latest socialist/progressive buzz moniker, as a route by which to cynically sell the notion of gubmint positively ordering around hoi polloy as chattel property, rather than being limited by enumerated powers (the Constitution) and a list of "thou shalt nots" (the BoR).

And you're correct in mentioning coercion, as the proactive use of physical force is the only tool at gubmint's disposal to make us all comply with their edicts.

 

[midcan5]

The gilded cage metaphor is interesting for it gets at a truth that we'll come back to. Let's not narrow freedom down to simply political means and ends but extend the concept. The idea that one can be free simply when desire meets our personal ambitions is interesting if hard to nail down. When I give a bum, sitting on a heated vent, a dollar have I set them free. They may be more free than most already. Everyone is tied down in life. We all like to pretend (think?) we are free to do as we please but if you did so you'd soon find yourself alone.

Class, wealth, power, authority, ideology, religion, culture, security, all exert pressure on our freedoms or allow freedom. So how can we ever claim freedom exists, it brings us back to the positive versus the negative freedom question. Do some people have more freedom than others? If they do why?

 

[dblack]

The gilded cage metaphor is interesting for it gets at a truth that we'll come back to. Let's not narrow freedom down to simply political means and ends but extend the concept.

Sure. OK. Being a political board, I sort of assumed we were focused on the political definition of freedom. But the other definitions are interesting as well. Free will is a big one.

Class, wealth, power, authority, ideology, religion, culture, security, all exert pressure on our freedoms or allow freedom. So how can we ever claim freedom exists, it brings us back to the positive versus the negative freedom question.

Well, political freedom doesn't depend on these extraneous factors, but you indicated you want to talk about something else. It sounds like you're more interested discussing the relative states of empowerment we might find ourselves in.

Do some people have more freedom than others? If they do why?

So, if it is, in fact, empowerment we're talking about - yes, some people have more than others. The reasons for this are varied. Despite our national conviction that all people are equal under the law, we don't try to pretend that we are all equally endowed or should be equally empowered. In fact, we've adopted an economic system that thrives on unequal distribution of power.

 

[TNHarley]

Freedom is still a word? I thought it got abolished.. Kinda like the constitution

 

[spectrumc01]

Freedom is a willingness to accept consequences good or bad. To be truly free one must be fearless in mind body and soul.

 

[Oddball]

Freedom is still a word? I thought it got abolished.. Kinda like the constitution

Lest we forget the "W" word.

 

[Wiseacre]

To me, freedom means the right and ability to make our own choices and take actions based on those choices so long as someone's else's freedom is impinged. I think with freedom comes responsibilities; there are always consequences to whatever we say or do, both positive and negative, intended or otherwise. You don't get to make a mess and then walk away, debts and obligations should be honored.

 

[dblack]

Freedom is still a word? I thought it got abolished..
Kinda like the constitution

The concept is frowned on. But it's still fine to use the word as a platitude or when making empty campaign promises.

 

[BreezeWood]

most other creatures in the Garden seem already to be free.

 

[The Professor]

Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose...

and nothin' was all that bobby left me...

Zsa Zsa Gabor once said, "I'm a good housekeeper. Every time I get divorced I keep the house."

 

[Mr. H.]

Freedom is a shitload of personal responsibility and dicipline. The absence of Freedom is simply dicipline.

The abuse of Freedom is a disregard for personal responsibility.

And these days we are an abusive society.