Free Will

[Blues Man]

Is free will an illusion?

There are arguments to support this claim.

For example Test subjects while monitored by FMRI have shown that people actually make a decision subconsciously with no awareness the choice has been made then the conscious brain just supports the subconscious decision and tells us that we consciously chose a banana instead of an apple for example, when the opposite is true.

There are a lot of ethical and sociological implications to this.

I think it would make an interesting discussion.

 

[Bleipriester]

Is free will an illusion?

There are arguments to support this claim.

For example Test subjects while monitored by FMRI have shown that people actually make a decision subconsciously with no awareness the choice has been made then the conscious brain just supports the subconscious decision and tells us that we consciously chose a banana instead of an apple for example, when the opposite is true.

There are a lot of ethical and sociological implications to this.

I think it would make an interesting discussion.

If you prefer bananas over apples then you won´t have to meditate long over the choice. The point should rather be that the choice depends on the taste and that is not determined by free will. But you are actually able to opt for the apple.

 

[1srelluc]

It's not a illusion unless you are one of the millions upon millions of subversant lemmings out there.

Let's take something simple.....The smart phone.

Those same millions upon millions of lemmings out there would not be caught dead without them whereas folks like myself make the conscious decision not to let a device run our lives.

Like those millions I own one but "own" is the operative word, I own it, it does not own me.....I see it as a sometimes useful tool, like a hammer, but I don't carry a hammer around with me.....Same with my smart phone.

I made a free will decision in that regard....Easy Peasy.

 

[Blues Man]

If you prefer bananas over apples then you won´t have to meditate long over the choice. The point should rather be that the choice depends on the taste and that is not determined by free will. But you are actually able to opt for the apple.

But the actual choice was made before the conscious mind was even aware it was made then the conscious mind makes up a story to tell you that YOU decided to pick the banana so your choice is an illusion.

And what if you are like me and like apples AND bananas equally.

 

[Blues Man]

It's not a illusion unless you are one of the millions upon millions of subversant lemmings out there.

Let's take something simple.....The smart phone.

Those same millions upon millions of lemmings out there would not be caught dead without them whereas folks like myself make the conscious decision not to let a device run our lives.

Like those millions I own one but "own" is the operative word, I own it, it does not own me.....I see it as a sometimes useful tool, like a hammer, but I don't carry a hammer around with me.....Same with my smart phone.

I made a free will decision in that regard....Easy Peasy.

Medical science will disagree with you on that.

As confirmed by studies using FMRI scans

 

[1srelluc]

Medical science will disagree with you on that.

As confirmed by studies using FMRI scans

Let's face it, most people in the profession of filling your head with such BS are not right in the head themselves and usually lack anything approaching common sense.

 

[Blues Man]

Let's face it, most people in the profession of filling your head with such BS are not right in the head themselves and usually lack anything approaching common sense.

Gee I didn't know you were a neurologist too.

As much as it might pain you to admit there are lots of people in the world who know more than you do on just about every subject you can think of.

 

[Blues Man]

Then there is the issue of brain physiology and behavior.

A brain tumor can drastically alter behavior.

People have engaged in absolutely reprehensible behaviors they would never and had never choose to do all because of an involuntary alteration of their brain and it's function.

Where is the "free will" in this scenario?

 

[Bleipriester]

But the actual choice was made before the conscious mind was even aware it was made then the conscious mind makes up a story to tell you that YOU decided to pick the banana so your choice is an illusion.

And what if you are like me and like apples AND bananas equally.

Maybe it is like when you change gears in a car. It becomes an automated process. So if you start to feel some appetite, you are not making a choice for the banana or the apple, you become appetite for a banana. You are acting upon your body´s request.

If you have several foods that you like equally, not taste but mood will influence you. Sometimes I want an ice, sometimes I want a pizza. It happens that I am going to the refrigerator for a pizza but then I take an ice instead and this was an active choice. I even overwrote the initial choice to fetch a pizza.

I am coming to the conclusion that the body heavily influences ones´ actions in several ways but a person can make the choice to act differently from the body´s request. If you can upload your mind to a robot, stuff like taste and any other physical attributes would be gone. The subconscious mind would be replaced by OS subroutines and your conscious mind would be free of bodily effects. Under such conditions we can figure out, if we have a free will.

 

[ReinyDays]

It's not a illusion unless you are one of the millions upon millions of subversant lemmings out there.

Let's take something simple.....The smart phone.

Those same millions upon millions of lemmings out there would not be caught dead without them whereas folks like myself make the conscious decision not to let a device run our lives.

Like those millions I own one but "own" is the operative word, I own it, it does not own me.....I see it as a sometimes useful tool, like a hammer, but I don't carry a hammer around with me.....Same with my smart phone.

I made a free will decision in that regard....Easy Peasy.

I keep a hammer with me ... but my smart phone stays on my desk ... they fight, and you know who loses ... not very smart is she? ...

I carved a piece of wood into the shape of a hammer and keep it on my workbench for those fine light taps some projects need ... a basic 16 oz finishing hammer with a smooth face, then my 22 oz framing hammer, which is a bit light but I carry the 32 oz geologist's hammer, the three pound sledge for carpentry, the 5 pound sledge for concrete work and a ten pound splitting maul which works well as a hammer ... the shingling hammer is a good way to split your forehead open ...

Have I ever talked about all the straight line runs of plumbing in my house ... everytime I turn off the water I get a big thump ... water hammer ... ha ha ... and I smoked a big bowl of pot, so I'm currently hammered ...

I hammer equally as well with both hands and I trained myself to kick nails in with my steel-toed boots ...

=====

If you don;'t believe I have FREE WILL ... read the above again ... c'mon, no one would plan that level of cerebral vomit ... or if they did, they hate you ...

 

[Blues Man]

Maybe it is like when you change gears in a car. It becomes an automated process. So if you start to feel some appetite, you are not making a choice for the banana or the apple, you become appetite for a banana. You are acting upon your body´s request.

If you have several foods that you like equally, not taste but mood will influence you. Sometimes I want an ice, sometimes I want a pizza. It happens that I am going to the refrigerator for a pizza but then I take an ice instead and this was an active choice. I even overwrote the initial choice to fetch a pizza.

I am coming to the conclusion that the body heavily influences ones´ actions in several ways but a person can make the choice to act differently from the body´s request. If you can upload your mind to a robot, stuff like taste and any other physical attributes would be gone. The subconscious mind would be replaced by OS subroutines and your conscious mind would be free of bodily effects. Under such conditions we can figure out, if we have a free will.

Maybe.

But this phenomena applies to all choices not just foods.

In one study subjects were asked to press one of 2 levers while watching a clock with random numbers on it.

The FMRI showed that people were unconsciously making the decision of which lever to press as long as 7 seconds before they were aware they made the choice.

 

[MisterBeale]

Is free will an illusion?

There are arguments to support this claim.

For example Test subjects while monitored by FMRI have shown that people actually make a decision subconsciously with no awareness the choice has been made then the conscious brain just supports the subconscious decision and tells us that we consciously chose a banana instead of an apple for example, when the opposite is true.

There are a lot of ethical and sociological implications to this.

I think it would make an interesting discussion.

Maybe it is all a simulation? Or maybe the creator has fore ordained everything, whom ever the creator is?

The evidence we are living in a Simulation is everywhere. All you have to do is look.​

EVERYTHING is Secretly Encoded in the Bible even YOUR Birth, Death (and the End of the World)​

​

 

[Bleipriester]

Maybe.

But this phenomena applies to all choices not just foods.

In one study subjects were asked to press one of 2 levers while watching a clock with random numbers on it.

The FMRI showed that people were unconsciously making the decision of which lever to press as long as 7 seconds before they were aware they made the choice.

That should be explained properly. How did they determine that? And what about the clock? Does it influence the subjects´ choice?

 

[$ecular#eckler]

Test subjects while monitored by FMRI

It's a really good idea when composing an argument that acronyms and abbreviations should be expanded, unless of course, you are expecting only experts to respond. Which of course, is probably not going to happen here, and any places where it would happen is going to ask you to do the same thing as well. WTFU

 

[1srelluc]

Gee I didn't know you were a neurologist too.

As much as it might pain you to admit there are lots of people in the world who know more than you do on just about every subject you can think of.

I suspect so, but unlike yourself I'm very good at knowing BS when I read it.....Go ahead and toss your mind away.

 

[task0778]

Is free will an illusion?

There are arguments to support this claim.

For example Test subjects while monitored by FMRI have shown that people actually make a decision subconsciously with no awareness the choice has been made then the conscious brain just supports the subconscious decision and tells us that we consciously chose a banana instead of an apple for example, when the opposite is true.

There are a lot of ethical and sociological implications to this.

I think it would make an interesting discussion.

Don't know what FMRI is. But I suspect there is some truth to a person's subconscious making decisions, sort of like autopilot. But even the subconscious mind bases it's decisions on the individual's feelings, values, attitudes, past experiences, etc., which sounds a lot like free will made at a lower level of the brain. And, sometimes a person doesn't make a subconscious decision but rather holds off while the conscious mind weighs the pros and cons.

To me, free will means it's my choice, however I make it.

 

[ding]

But the actual choice was made before the conscious mind was even aware it was made then the conscious mind makes up a story to tell you that YOU decided to pick the banana so your choice is an illusion.

You can choose to be a good person no matter what.

The thing about humans is that we get to choose how we act.

that is the path I chose.

It's my choice.

Ironic, huh?

 

[Blues Man]

I suspect so, but unlike yourself I'm very good at knowing BS when I read it.....Go ahead and toss your mind away.

Yes properly constructed scientific experiments are BS got it.

Replication of results is BS Got it

 

[Blues Man]

Ironic, huh?

So what?

We are all under the same delusions aren't we?

What part of all those things were unconscious or due to my personality which is mostly based in genetics and how I grew up?

What part was my conditioning by society?

What part did my particular brain chemistry play?

 

[Blues Man]

Don't know what FMRI is. But I suspect there is some truth to a person's subconscious making decisions, sort of like autopilot. But even the subconscious mind bases it's decisions on the individual's feelings, values, attitudes, past experiences, etc., which sounds a lot like free will made at a lower level of the brain. And, sometimes a person doesn't make a subconscious decision but rather holds off while the conscious mind weighs the pros and cons.

To me, free will means it's my choice, however I make it.

Why is it you people are incapable of using a search engine to look up a term you don't know?