Free Choice Act? 44 Newspapers Oppose This Union Deception

[Gunny]

Here we have it again. Conservatives doing everything that they can to damage the working man. Union membership is down to an alltime low, and the wages of the working man are stagnate or worse. Could there possibly be a corelation? Time for a resurgance of unions, time for laws that keep manufacturing in this nation, instead of rewarding those that offshore jobs.

Really? How does the "working man" being overcompensated by the employer to support the infrastructure of the union equate to damaging the working man? That "higher wages" crap is just a scam because the employee never sees it as it passes through his hands on paper.

At the end of the day, I take more pay home than any union employee, and I don't spend half the year laid off because no one will hire union companies at union prices.

 

[tigerbob]

Here we have it again. Conservatives doing everything that they can to damage the working man.

Jeez, that's either hugely partisan or desperately dumb. There are plenty of "working men" who are conservatives. There are also plenty of conservatives who have "working men" as friends.

 

[AllieBaba]

The decline in the quality of life of the middle class coincides with the decline in union members in this nation.

Coincidence?

I don't think so.

Crap. Instead of quoting you, I mistakenly repped you, dammit.

ANyway, WHAT decline in the quality of life of the middle class?

Are you serious?

 

[Zoomie1980]

LOL! It surely will be for all of you should Obama's policies turn out successful. But it will be a miserable for Republicans in any case. For the present economic debacle is of their creation, and most Americans know it. And should it slide into a Depression, it will not be known as Obama's Depression, but Bush's. More generally known as the Second Great Republican Depression.

I think that even without this, unions are going to gain a in membership. We have seen far too much of the management getting continual huge raises and bonuses while the man on the floor gets pink slips and replacement by low priced "temps". Long past time for a major change.

This is called wishful thinking.

Obama is NOT a big pro-union guy. He's turning out to be quite different from his campaign rhetoric much to the chagrin of the loony left. This legislation will not see the light of day as congress has too many other things on its plate now. Add to that, it has less than 40% support in the Senate with the entire Gang of 14 opposed.

 

[editec]

garyd wrote: "Sorry I haven't experienced a decline. And most people if they do the actual math instead of listening to leftist hand wringers haven't either. Define middle Class just for openers..."

Well then...as long as Garyd hasn't experienced a decline, what else matters?

 

[Old Rocks]

Well then...as long as Garyd hasn't experienced a decline, what else matters?

I suppose that I could be as Garyd, since my last full year working has also been my best. And I do not belong to a union. However, my employer would pay far less, were it not for the threat of a union. And I have seen a steady decline in the wages that all too many of my friends recieve. Simple fact, the wage worker has recieved less and less for his efforts in real money for at least the last 30 years. Now that we are experiancing the logical outcome of the concentration of power and wealth in the oligarchs hands, mybe we will see some changes.

 

[editec]

I suppose that I could be as Garyd, since my last full year working has also been my best. And I do not belong to a union. However, my employer would pay far less, were it not for the threat of a union. And I have seen a steady decline in the wages that all too many of my friends recieve. Simple fact, the wage worker has recieved less and less for his efforts in real money for at least the last 30 years. Now that we are experiancing the logical outcome of the concentration of power and wealth in the oligarchs hands, mybe we will see some changes.

I note that the decline in working class purchasing incomes for most workers really started in 1969.

For some of us, of course, things appear to be getting better. For the majority of Americans who work, things have been getting worse.

Why this has happened is a complex story, and not one that can be blamed on any single thing.

But, if I had to choose on single thing that has been making this happen, my choice would be the way we have systematically destroyed our industrial base though foolish free trade policies.

Now an agument can be made that those trade policies worked to help us win the cold war, and even I could sign onto that theory.

But the cost of winning that war was paid for by the decline in worker's purchasing power overall.

Meanwhile the monied class has captured our government and convinced it to increase the taxes that the working class pays, decreased the social services that our government provided, and dramatically decreased the taxes that the monied class has to pay.

The working middle class, those making between $50 K and $150 K have been paying far too much a share of the overall taxation.

The benficiaries are that class of people who make more than that amount.

I just heard (on C-SPAN's Books notes lectures), speaking of giving benefits to the superwealthy, that Ingersol Rand ( a company I almost went to work for after HS) is now a Bermudian corporation.

Why?

Tax breaks, why else?

Ingersol Rand has one employee in Bermuda.

Once a year the board flies to Bermuda to hold its annual meeting.

Meanwhile most of that company's thousands of employees are in the USA or elsewhere, but its profits are shunted to Bermuda where they are NOT TAXED.

 

[indago]

Meanwhile the monied class has captured our government and convinced it to increase the taxes that the working class pays, decreased the social services that our government provided, and dramatically decreased the taxes that the monied class has to pay.

The working middle class, those making between $50 K and $150 K have been paying far too much a share of the overall taxation.

That's why the federal "income tax" was enacted: to lift some of the burden of taxation from the working man and have wealth pay their "fair share".

 

[jillian]

What's imperfect about it in your opinion? I've read what you have said in support of it, but I'd be interested to see what your reservations are as well.

My reservations are that I think there needs to be a balance between labor and unions and I'm not sure if this doesn't swing the pendulum too far the other way. If it does, I'm sure it will be corrected, though.

You are right that a lot of animosity toward unions from the right stems from the role the unions play in being Democrat boosters, but a lot of it also stems from the perceived corruption among union leaders over decades and the perception that unions, while critically important to the rights of oppressed workers years ago, have spent the last few decades making more and more outrageous demands to the point where the American (union member) worker is no longer competitive.

Please note, I am saying that these are the perceptions, not necessarily my perceptions.

I agree that among some there is a perception that union bosses are corrupt. And I know that's true to a degree. Are they more or less corrupt than the corporatists? I don't know that either. My concern though is that wokers should have a fair wage and I would hate to see the corporatists return us to some time of Sinclair Lewis-type nightmare.

 

[midcan5]

Anyone who criticizes labor unions need look no farther than the large disparity in wages and benefits in the South as compared to the NE. It is a conservative mantra that unions are bad, but the lack of even the threat of unions is worse as shown by wages across states. I can never figure out why conservatives support corporate power against people power? A rather odd sentiment given Enron et al and walmart wages.

AFSCME - Labor’s Top 10 Accomplishments

 

[AllieBaba]

Because your so-called "people power" actually causes industry to shut down and in the end hurts "people".

 

[driveby]

Anyone who criticizes labor unions need look no farther than the large disparity in wages and benefits in the South as compared to the NE. It is a conservative mantra that unions are bad, but the lack of even the threat of unions is worse as shown by wages across states. I can never figure out why conservatives support corporate power against people power? A rather odd sentiment given Enron et al and walmart wages.

AFSCME - Labor’s Top 10 Accomplishments

puff puff give .......

 

[Zoomie1980]

I suppose that I could be as Garyd, since my last full year working has also been my best. And I do not belong to a union. However, my employer would pay far less, were it not for the threat of a union. And I have seen a steady decline in the wages that all too many of my friends recieve. Simple fact, the wage worker has recieved less and less for his efforts in real money for at least the last 30 years. Now that we are experiancing the logical outcome of the concentration of power and wealth in the oligarchs hands, mybe we will see some changes.

First off, that is categorically false as REAL wages, after inflation has grown steadily over the past 30 years.

And change? The "Messiah" has appointed pretty much the same crowd that has always held those positions and seems hell bent on utilizing the same policies that have never worked in the past......nothing is changing. People with the money and the smarts will continue to make the lion's share of the money. That will never change

 

[Zoomie1980]

Anyone who criticizes labor unions need look no farther than the large disparity in wages and benefits in the South as compared to the NE. It is a conservative mantra that unions are bad, but the lack of even the threat of unions is worse as shown by wages across states. I can never figure out why conservatives support corporate power against people power? A rather odd sentiment given Enron et al and walmart wages.

AFSCME - Labor’s Top 10 Accomplishments

And where are all the old industries shutting down? I don't see Toyota, Honda and BMW ready to declare bankruptcy? How many union shops have gone out of business in the past 20 years compared to non-union shops? Almost ALL have been union shops. And not so much because of wages but because of benefits virtually NO one has anymore (outside a union) like "butt" pay, 100% healthcare, and old-school pensions as opposed to 401k....

 

[Agnapostate]

Really? How does the "working man" being overcompensated by the employer to support the infrastructure of the union equate to damaging the working man? That "higher wages" crap is just a scam because the employee never sees it as it passes through his hands on paper.

At the end of the day, I take more pay home than any union employee, and I don't spend half the year laid off because no one will hire union companies at union prices.

There's an ironic concern related to that actually...does it even matter, given the nature of efficiency wages, for instance? Alternative compensatory strategies have typically been at the heart of employer attempts to deal with principal-agent problems.

 

[editec]

I love the way this issue gets spinning into something it clearly is not.

Here is the scivy on the EFCA.

The Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) is legislation in the United States which aims to "amend the National Labor Relations Act to establish an easier system to enable employees to form, join, or assist labor organizations, to provide for mandatory injunctions for unfair labor practices during organizing efforts, and for other purposes."[1] Under current U.S. labor law, the National Labor Relations Board will certify a union as the exclusive representative of bargaining unit employees by card check process or secret ballot election, which is held if more than 30% of employees in a bargaining unit sign statements asking for representation by a union. If enacted, EFCA would require the NLRB to certify a bargaining representative without directing an election if a majority of the bargaining unit employees signed cards, the card check process.[1]

source

IF a majority of workers sign an card certifying that they want a union, the NLRB will certify a union representative.

Why is that useful?

Becaause as it stands now emplyees must petition for a vote for a union and -- surprise! suprise! -- those employees suddenly find, once they openly start talking to their fellow employees about forming a union, that they're unemployed.

Gee...I wonder why suddenly the very same people who have been fighting to destroy unions suddenly care so much about the workers right to having a SECRET BALLOT?

Because they KNOW that by continuing the system they have now, they can fire anyone who calls for a vote, that's why.

 

[mash107]

it's gonna be a miserable four years.

Hopefully only two. If the Democrats overreach (they will), and the house Republicans can get their shit together (there is hope after the house drilling sit-in this summer and their opposition to the bailouts), and history repeats itself (it usually does), then the Republicans can retake the house in 2010.

Where were those republicans during the last 8 years when Bush hiked up spending more than any other President since FDR?