Franklin And His BFF, Joe Stalin

[Toro]

Did you know that FDR was the General Secretary of the USSR?

It's true.

Posts to come!

A regular knee-slapper!


I've noticed that when confronted with undeniable evidence, the less knowledgeable lapse into feeble attempts at what passes for humor among the puerile.

Are you saying that's not the direction all these threads are headed?

 

[Syriusly]

I am aware of that falsehood.

You clearly prefer that more Americans died in Europe- or perhaps that the Germans conquered all of Europe- rather than making an ally of convenience with the Soviet Union.

And FDR never gave 'carte blanche' to communism in the U.S.- just an idiotic claim.

You're clearly a fool.

1. I provided a sourced post supporting my contentions.

2. The aims of the CPUSA circa 1955 are almost identical to those of the current Democrat Party.



Yours is the response so typical of the government school grad.
And, no doubt, a reliable Democrat voter.

You're clearly a tool.

You have provided a bunch of stuff.

And your biased opinion.

If FDR had not aided the Soviets in 1941, it is more than likely either we never invaded Western Europe and the Third Reich continues until we start dropping atomic bombs on it- or they on us- or if we did invade, we lose thousands of more troops.

Your attempt at revisionist history is well noted.

Funny that you refer to 'revisionist history' when all you have is "it is more than likely."

Dunce, go back and read about the battle of Stalingrad, and Kursk.

Never a surprise, when the truth about FDR/Stalin/ communism is produced, you low-lives resort to claims that the one providing the truth wanted American soldiers dead.

Especially in light of the fact that Roosevelt extended the war by over two years, resulting in the commensurate deaths of Americans.

LOL- Roosevelt extended the war by 'over two years'? Seriously.....so you think that Roosevelt could have ended the War in Europe by May 1943? A year and a half after the United States entered the war?

Well that is a whopper.

I have read far more about the Battle of Stalingrad and Kursk than you are likely to ever stumble across.

How do you think the Soviets managed to move all of those tanks to Kursk?

American locomotives.

And that is not a slight on the brave Russians who fought- but American Lend Lease kept the Soviet Union alive while it ramped up production on T-34's and KV's- and supplied the trucks they used- and most importantly of all the rolling stock that moved the equipment from the factories to the front.

The USSR was highly dependent on rail transportation, but the war practically shut down rail equipment production: only about 92 locomotives were produced. 2,000 locomotives and 11,000 railcars were supplied under Lend-Lease. Likewise, the Soviet air force received 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 14% of Soviet aircraft production (19% for military aircraft).[19]

Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands of U.S.-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4 ton andStudebaker 2½ ton were easily the best trucks available in their class on either side on the Eastern Front. American shipments of telephone cable, aluminum, canned rations, and clothing were also critical.[20]

The Western Allies recognized that the USSR was vital to be fighting against the Nazi's.

You just want to do some Monday morning quarterbacking on how you think they should have done it- 60 years ago.

"LOL- Roosevelt extended the war by 'over two years'? Seriously..."

That' right, dolt.

Stalin told him to refuse to allow communication with the anti-Nazi German resistance, and that's exactly what happened.

What was the effect of Stalin's demand that no surrender by Germany be allowed?

Well that is as stupid of a claim as every other claim you have made.

There is absolutely no evidence that 'communication with anti-Nazi German resistance' would have had any affect on the war- let alone ending the way by May 1943- 15 months after Germany declared war on the U.S.

Why you seem to be advocating for more American deaths, and more Russian deaths just so that the United States never allied itself with the Soviet Union, I don't know.

But it certainly isn't based upon what would have been better for the United States.

Because after WW2, the United States started an unparalled rise in power, and wealth, and the Soviet Union endured only another 40 years before collapsing under the failure of Communism.

 

[Syriusly]

2. USSR fought because Hitler turned on his long term ally, Stalin.
That has nothing to do with the fact that well before the war, FDR allied himself with a genocidal maniac.
.

FDR allied the United States with the Soviet Union after Germany attacked the Soviet Union, and after Germany declared war on the U.S.- after the war had started for the USSR, and long after FDR had started preparing for what he considered to be the inevitable war with the Nazi's.

FDR provided lend lease to the Soviet Union in the same way we provided lend lease to the Brits even though we were not actually 'allied' with them until Germany declared war on the U.S.

 

[Syriusly]

So.....nothing in my posts that you can deny....

...thus, a feeble attempt at 'humor.'


More proof that history if far from your strong suit.

Naw, it's just you really can't fix crazy.

Birthers, 9/11 truthers, UFO Conspiracy nuts. No matter how many times you prove to them that there was a birth certificate, there really were planes crashing into the buildings, or it was really a weather balloon, they will insist otherwise.

Yep- and with that I will bail on this stupid conspiracy theory revisionist history thread- pointing out how history actually played out is fun, but the OP will continue with his whacky conspiracy theories regardless.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Spin…altering the truth without altering the facts.


Nice spin...but the fact remains that it was Stalin, not Hitler who did the killing.

That is contrary to your earlier post, which implied that Stalin's losses were due to the Nazis.

Point for me....you.... "l'oeuf"

I'll make it simple enough for a conservative to follow: Hitler's invasion of Russia resulted an amount of loss equivalent the complete destruction of all the US east of Chicago. Those losses only happened because your side invaded Russia.

Yours is the sort of post one can expect from the loser in a debate.

My side is America.

Your side supports the fascists who prosper from war regardless of which side "wins." The simple logic here reveals Stalin tore the guts out of your beloved Nazis by defeating 200 German divisions while the US/UK defeated 10. Can you manage that math?

"Your side supports the fascists..."



I ripped you a new one yesterday, in post #19- after you showed what a moron you are by claiming that the Nazis and Communists were 'literally the opposite.'


Now you're lying, claiming that I support fascists....


Time to destroy you again:

You weak-minded dolt.

Let's try an educated response instead.

Nazis or Communists:

1. Followed from Karl Marx's doctrines

2. Totalitarian big government

3. Command and Control economy

4. Practiced genocide.

5. Based on socialism

6. Imperialist

7. Anti-Semitic

8. Atheistic


Which one for each?????

Which???

The correct answer: for each of the above, BOTH


And you said they were "literally opposites"????

You ass.



OK...one difference: only one had FDR as BFF


Of course, fascists are right there on the political spectrum with Nazis and Communists....you imbecile.


Here's what I support:

1. individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

Starting at the top, you're claiming Hitler and Stalin were both followers of Marx?
"Historians and biographers note some difficulty in identifying Adolf Hitler's political views.

"His writings and methods were often adapted to need and circumstance, although there were some steady themes, including antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-parliamentarianism, German expansionism, belief in the superiority of an 'Aryan race' and an extreme form of German nationalism.

"Hitler personally claimed he was fighting against Jewish Marxism.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Rip on, Aufseherinnen!

"Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

"Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists."
Vladimir Bukovsky.


Post #19 ripped one who is one a new one.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Did you know that FDR was the General Secretary of the USSR?

It's true.

Posts to come!

A regular knee-slapper!


I've noticed that when confronted with undeniable evidence, the less knowledgeable lapse into feeble attempts at what passes for humor among the puerile.

Are you saying that's not the direction all these threads are headed?

I'm saying you should stop resisting education.

 

[PoliticalChic]

2. USSR fought because Hitler turned on his long term ally, Stalin.
That has nothing to do with the fact that well before the war, FDR allied himself with a genocidal maniac.
.

FDR allied the United States with the Soviet Union after Germany attacked the Soviet Union, and after Germany declared war on the U.S.- after the war had started for the USSR, and long after FDR had started preparing for what he considered to be the inevitable war with the Nazi's.

FDR provided lend lease to the Soviet Union in the same way we provided lend lease to the Brits even though we were not actually 'allied' with them until Germany declared war on the U.S.

Amazing how little you know, dope.

1. He jumped to ally himself with Stalin in 1933....shortly after he was elected, and long before WWII.

2. The Lend-Lease idea came from Sovietophile Armand Hammer in 1940....That's before both Pearl Harbor, and before Germany attacked its ally, Russia.

a. "The millionaire industrialist, Armand Hammer played a key role in laying the foundations of Lend-Lease.As a dyed-in-the-wool collaborator of Lenin´s and Stalin’s in procuring Western, especially American, assistance in the industrialization of the USSR.....in November 1940 Armand Hammer met with FDR in the White House. He and the president discussed the idea of developing American military assistance to Britain, the Neutrality Act and Roosevelt’s campaign promises not to embroil the United States in the European war to the contrary. Roosevelt thereupon suggested to Hammer that he discuss this plan with Harry Hopkins.Hopkins twice traveled to New York City, Hammer´s base of operations, to discuss this idea with officials and businessmen there.” Roosevelt 8217 s Lend-Lease Act The Arm and Hammer Hammer and Sickle Connection Justice for Germans

a. The program was finally authorized by Congress and signed into effect on March 11, 1941. By November, after much heated debate, Congress extended the terms of Lend-Lease to the Soviet Union, even though the USSR had already been the recipient of American military weapons and had been promised $1 billion in financial aid. FDR signs Lend-Lease mdash History.com This Day in History mdash 3 11 1941



So....seems you know less than zero.....except 'defend FDR in everything.'

 

[georgephillip]

I'll make it simple enough for a conservative to follow: Hitler's invasion of Russia resulted an amount of loss equivalent the complete destruction of all the US east of Chicago. Those losses only happened because your side invaded Russia.

Yours is the sort of post one can expect from the loser in a debate.

My side is America.

Your side supports the fascists who prosper from war regardless of which side "wins." The simple logic here reveals Stalin tore the guts out of your beloved Nazis by defeating 200 German divisions while the US/UK defeated 10. Can you manage that math?

"Your side supports the fascists..."



I ripped you a new one yesterday, in post #19- after you showed what a moron you are by claiming that the Nazis and Communists were 'literally the opposite.'


Now you're lying, claiming that I support fascists....


Time to destroy you again:

You weak-minded dolt.

Let's try an educated response instead.

Nazis or Communists:

1. Followed from Karl Marx's doctrines

2. Totalitarian big government

3. Command and Control economy

4. Practiced genocide.

5. Based on socialism

6. Imperialist

7. Anti-Semitic

8. Atheistic


Which one for each?????

Which???

The correct answer: for each of the above, BOTH


And you said they were "literally opposites"????

You ass.



OK...one difference: only one had FDR as BFF


Of course, fascists are right there on the political spectrum with Nazis and Communists....you imbecile.


Here's what I support:

1. individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

Starting at the top, you're claiming Hitler and Stalin were both followers of Marx?
"Historians and biographers note some difficulty in identifying Adolf Hitler's political views.

"His writings and methods were often adapted to need and circumstance, although there were some steady themes, including antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-parliamentarianism, German expansionism, belief in the superiority of an 'Aryan race' and an extreme form of German nationalism.

"Hitler personally claimed he was fighting against Jewish Marxism.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Rip on, Aufseherinnen!

"Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

"Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists."
Vladimir Bukovsky.


Post #19 ripped one who is one a new one.

^ What the hell does that mean?

"The Nazis (National Socialists) promoted a socially conservative view of all aspects of life, supported by harsh discipline and a militaristic point of view.

• Extreme homophobia leading to the systematic persecution of homosexuals.
• Persecution of 'degenerate art'.
• Strong rejection of premarital sex, prostitution, pornography and 'sexual vice'. Smoking, drinking and use of cosmetics were discouraged.
• Anti-intellectualism.[15]
• Revindication of a glorious past as the key to a glorious future."

Sounds like your kind of folks.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[Daktoria]

Just to be clear, you might want to take it a step back on Stalin being anti-Semitic.

Yea, it's true he made plenty of Jews' lives problematic.

However, you might want to consider a few things:

First, Jews vote overwhelmingly Democratic.

Second, the Jewish belief of claiming they're chosen by God to bring light unto nations effectively makes them communists. They don't care about the individuality of people judging how to live their own lives. Instead, they want the right to tell people how to live them for them.

Third, Jews even organize in kibbutzes which are communes.

Fourth, you might want to consider how many self-hating Jews are out there, and how they basically depend on others to defend their rotten ideology while failing to uphold civic responsibility and retributive justice for others.

For example, consider how Jews associate with neoconservative foreign policy despite voting Democratic. They basically usurp the ability of others to defend them while distracting others from focusing on domestic policy at the same time that they support the deconstruction of domestic social fabric which socially alienates people from participating in domestic civilian life. Instead, they end up enlisting in the military to support Zionism.

1. "... you might want to take it a step back on Stalin being anti-Semitic."
If I agreed with you, we'd both be wrong.

a. Many Jews fled to the USSR....where Stalin rounded them up, and delivered them to the Gestapo as a gesture of friendship...until June 21, 1941.

b. Roosevelt purged anti-communist Foreign Service officers when given a "list of officials who were supposedly undermining American relations with Russia" by Soviet Foreign Minister Litvinov. The purges began in 1937, and, ironic, Litvinov was dragged out of his position and replaced with Molotov, by Stalin, because Litvinov was Jewish, and Stalin had treaties with Hitler. The purges were at the behest of Harry Hopkins.
Weil, " A pretty good club: The founding fathers of the U.S. Foreign Service," p. 91-92


2. "First, Jews vote overwhelmingly Democratic....effectively makes them communists. They don't care about the individuality of people judging how to live their own lives"

What???

I'm quite conservative, but don't believe that every Liberal/Democrat/Progressive is a communist.



3. "...how Jews associate with neoconservative foreign policy despite voting Democratic."

A neo-conservative (abbreviated as neo-con or neocon) is part of a U.S. based political movement rooted in liberal Cold War anticommunism and a backlash to the social liberation movements of the 1960s and 1970s. These liberals drifted toward conservatism: thus they are new (neo) conservatives. They favor an aggressive unilateral U.S. foreign policy. They generally believe that elites protect democracy from mob rule. Sometimes the spelling is "neoconservative." …many Jewish and Catholic intellectuals rooted in Cold War liberalism, clustered around publications such as Public Interest and Commentary…Neo-conservative - SourceWatch



"Stand with anybody that stands RIGHT. Stand with him while he is right and PART with him when he goes wrong."
Abraham Lincoln, Speech at Peoria, Illinois (October 16, 1854),

You and I part ways with this post.

I never disagreed with how Stalin treated Jews, or that FDR sided with Stalin. The point is it's really not that big of an issue because of what Jews stand for.

The fact remains that Jews are predominantly left-wing: Jewish Voting Record in U.S. Presidential Elections Jewish Virtual Library Why Jewish Americans vote Democratic Harry J Enten Comment is free theguardian.com

Yes, there are differences between liberalism and communism, but when it comes to criticizing capitalism, those Jewish liberals end up siding with the communists. In essence, Jews getting persecuted by Stalin was a form of discipline, not tyranny. It let them learn how bad communism really is and that they should stop siding with it...

...but many Jews just never learned the lesson. Many insist on just being wise guys anyway to get on capitalists' nerves.

Also, Jewish and Catholic intellectuals really don't have much in common. At best there's a Machiavellian alliance against the Soviet Union being tyrannical. On a deeper level though...

Jews believe they're chosen by God to bring light unto nations. They're basically communists in claiming it's their right to centrally plan the world's economy by manipulating other people's utility preferences and lifestyles.

Catholics believe humanity is universally graceful, and that when grace is synthesized with goodwill, it leads to the performance of mysterious good works such that nobody may judge another's performance of them due to their mysterious nature.

The problem is modern Catholics have been manipulated, especially due to how many are lapsed as well as how many identify with working class politics in light of how Jews predominantly vote Democrat.

There's also the issue of Catholic guilt which lends itself to many Catholics being easy to manipulate. For example, Catholics love to stand up for victims, but victims don't always stand up for Catholics. Catholics will often stand up for Israel in the Middle East, but Jews won't stand up for the preservation of social fabric in domestic policy. Instead, they again predominantly vote Democrat.

 

[PoliticalChic]

Yours is the sort of post one can expect from the loser in a debate.

My side is America.

Your side supports the fascists who prosper from war regardless of which side "wins." The simple logic here reveals Stalin tore the guts out of your beloved Nazis by defeating 200 German divisions while the US/UK defeated 10. Can you manage that math?

"Your side supports the fascists..."



I ripped you a new one yesterday, in post #19- after you showed what a moron you are by claiming that the Nazis and Communists were 'literally the opposite.'


Now you're lying, claiming that I support fascists....


Time to destroy you again:

You weak-minded dolt.

Let's try an educated response instead.

Nazis or Communists:

1. Followed from Karl Marx's doctrines

2. Totalitarian big government

3. Command and Control economy

4. Practiced genocide.

5. Based on socialism

6. Imperialist

7. Anti-Semitic

8. Atheistic


Which one for each?????

Which???

The correct answer: for each of the above, BOTH


And you said they were "literally opposites"????

You ass.



OK...one difference: only one had FDR as BFF


Of course, fascists are right there on the political spectrum with Nazis and Communists....you imbecile.


Here's what I support:

1. individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

Starting at the top, you're claiming Hitler and Stalin were both followers of Marx?
"Historians and biographers note some difficulty in identifying Adolf Hitler's political views.

"His writings and methods were often adapted to need and circumstance, although there were some steady themes, including antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-parliamentarianism, German expansionism, belief in the superiority of an 'Aryan race' and an extreme form of German nationalism.

"Hitler personally claimed he was fighting against Jewish Marxism.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Rip on, Aufseherinnen!

"Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

"Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists."
Vladimir Bukovsky.


Post #19 ripped one who is one a new one.

^ What the hell does that mean?

"The Nazis (National Socialists) promoted a socially conservative view of all aspects of life, supported by harsh discipline and a militaristic point of view.

• Extreme homophobia leading to the systematic persecution of homosexuals.
• Persecution of 'degenerate art'.
• Strong rejection of premarital sex, prostitution, pornography and 'sexual vice'. Smoking, drinking and use of cosmetics were discouraged.
• Anti-intellectualism.[15]
• Revindication of a glorious past as the key to a glorious future."

Sounds like your kind of folks.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It means you're a moron.

You've been trained not to recognize that communism, Nazism, fascism...and Liberalism are basically the same, believe in the same ends.

They differ only in how aggressively they pursue them.

 

[Daktoria]

Yours is the sort of post one can expect from the loser in a debate.

My side is America.

Your side supports the fascists who prosper from war regardless of which side "wins." The simple logic here reveals Stalin tore the guts out of your beloved Nazis by defeating 200 German divisions while the US/UK defeated 10. Can you manage that math?

"Your side supports the fascists..."



I ripped you a new one yesterday, in post #19- after you showed what a moron you are by claiming that the Nazis and Communists were 'literally the opposite.'


Now you're lying, claiming that I support fascists....


Time to destroy you again:

You weak-minded dolt.

Let's try an educated response instead.

Nazis or Communists:

1. Followed from Karl Marx's doctrines

2. Totalitarian big government

3. Command and Control economy

4. Practiced genocide.

5. Based on socialism

6. Imperialist

7. Anti-Semitic

8. Atheistic


Which one for each?????

Which???

The correct answer: for each of the above, BOTH


And you said they were "literally opposites"????

You ass.



OK...one difference: only one had FDR as BFF


Of course, fascists are right there on the political spectrum with Nazis and Communists....you imbecile.


Here's what I support:

1. individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

Starting at the top, you're claiming Hitler and Stalin were both followers of Marx?
"Historians and biographers note some difficulty in identifying Adolf Hitler's political views.

"His writings and methods were often adapted to need and circumstance, although there were some steady themes, including antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-parliamentarianism, German expansionism, belief in the superiority of an 'Aryan race' and an extreme form of German nationalism.

"Hitler personally claimed he was fighting against Jewish Marxism.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Rip on, Aufseherinnen!

"Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

"Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists."
Vladimir Bukovsky.


Post #19 ripped one who is one a new one.

^ What the hell does that mean?

"The Nazis (National Socialists) promoted a socially conservative view of all aspects of life, supported by harsh discipline and a militaristic point of view.

• Extreme homophobia leading to the systematic persecution of homosexuals.
• Persecution of 'degenerate art'.
• Strong rejection of premarital sex, prostitution, pornography and 'sexual vice'. Smoking, drinking and use of cosmetics were discouraged.
• Anti-intellectualism.[15]
• Revindication of a glorious past as the key to a glorious future."

Sounds like your kind of folks.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

There's more to social conservatism than positions on issues.

For example, Hitler didn't advocate civic responsibility or due diligence in society. His society was built around social Darwinism and might makes right power politics. He didn't care about the rule of law or putting grace before law.

I mean I could argue liberals are just like Hitler too because he was a vegetarian during his regime, but that doesn't paint a complete picture, does it?

 

[georgephillip]

Your side supports the fascists who prosper from war regardless of which side "wins." The simple logic here reveals Stalin tore the guts out of your beloved Nazis by defeating 200 German divisions while the US/UK defeated 10. Can you manage that math?

"Your side supports the fascists..."



I ripped you a new one yesterday, in post #19- after you showed what a moron you are by claiming that the Nazis and Communists were 'literally the opposite.'


Now you're lying, claiming that I support fascists....


Time to destroy you again:

You weak-minded dolt.

Let's try an educated response instead.

Nazis or Communists:

1. Followed from Karl Marx's doctrines

2. Totalitarian big government

3. Command and Control economy

4. Practiced genocide.

5. Based on socialism

6. Imperialist

7. Anti-Semitic

8. Atheistic


Which one for each?????

Which???

The correct answer: for each of the above, BOTH


And you said they were "literally opposites"????

You ass.



OK...one difference: only one had FDR as BFF


Of course, fascists are right there on the political spectrum with Nazis and Communists....you imbecile.


Here's what I support:

1. individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

Starting at the top, you're claiming Hitler and Stalin were both followers of Marx?
"Historians and biographers note some difficulty in identifying Adolf Hitler's political views.

"His writings and methods were often adapted to need and circumstance, although there were some steady themes, including antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-parliamentarianism, German expansionism, belief in the superiority of an 'Aryan race' and an extreme form of German nationalism.

"Hitler personally claimed he was fighting against Jewish Marxism.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Rip on, Aufseherinnen!

"Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

"Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists."
Vladimir Bukovsky.


Post #19 ripped one who is one a new one.

^ What the hell does that mean?

"The Nazis (National Socialists) promoted a socially conservative view of all aspects of life, supported by harsh discipline and a militaristic point of view.

• Extreme homophobia leading to the systematic persecution of homosexuals.
• Persecution of 'degenerate art'.
• Strong rejection of premarital sex, prostitution, pornography and 'sexual vice'. Smoking, drinking and use of cosmetics were discouraged.
• Anti-intellectualism.[15]
• Revindication of a glorious past as the key to a glorious future."

Sounds like your kind of folks.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

It means you're a moron.

You've been trained not to recognize that communism, Nazism, fascism...and Liberalism are basically the same, believe in the same ends.

They differ only in how aggressively they pursue them.

We're fairly close to agreement regarding your first sentence:
"If we go back a century, we can find that various 'organic structures,' as they were sometimes called, were being developed and accorded rights over and above people.

"Something like that had been true under feudal systems, but now we had new ones.

"There were basically three kinds gaining prominence in the early 20th century: one was Fascism, a second was Bolshevism, and a third was private corporations -- corporatism.

"They were similar, in that they demanded and received -- more or less by force -- rights that are independent of the rights of people.

"They had their own rights, as entities.

"In the United States it was done mostly by radical judicial activism.

"Two of the systems have collapsed.

"The third remains, more powerful than ever.
Marginalizing the Masses Noam Chomsky interviewed by Robert A. Schupp and Richard L. Ohlemacher
Which one is that?

 

[georgephillip]

Your side supports the fascists who prosper from war regardless of which side "wins." The simple logic here reveals Stalin tore the guts out of your beloved Nazis by defeating 200 German divisions while the US/UK defeated 10. Can you manage that math?

"Your side supports the fascists..."



I ripped you a new one yesterday, in post #19- after you showed what a moron you are by claiming that the Nazis and Communists were 'literally the opposite.'


Now you're lying, claiming that I support fascists....


Time to destroy you again:

You weak-minded dolt.

Let's try an educated response instead.

Nazis or Communists:

1. Followed from Karl Marx's doctrines

2. Totalitarian big government

3. Command and Control economy

4. Practiced genocide.

5. Based on socialism

6. Imperialist

7. Anti-Semitic

8. Atheistic


Which one for each?????

Which???

The correct answer: for each of the above, BOTH


And you said they were "literally opposites"????

You ass.



OK...one difference: only one had FDR as BFF


Of course, fascists are right there on the political spectrum with Nazis and Communists....you imbecile.


Here's what I support:

1. individualism, free markets, and limited constitutional government.

Starting at the top, you're claiming Hitler and Stalin were both followers of Marx?
"Historians and biographers note some difficulty in identifying Adolf Hitler's political views.

"His writings and methods were often adapted to need and circumstance, although there were some steady themes, including antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-parliamentarianism, German expansionism, belief in the superiority of an 'Aryan race' and an extreme form of German nationalism.

"Hitler personally claimed he was fighting against Jewish Marxism.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

Rip on, Aufseherinnen!

"Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

"Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists."
Vladimir Bukovsky.


Post #19 ripped one who is one a new one.

^ What the hell does that mean?

"The Nazis (National Socialists) promoted a socially conservative view of all aspects of life, supported by harsh discipline and a militaristic point of view.

• Extreme homophobia leading to the systematic persecution of homosexuals.
• Persecution of 'degenerate art'.
• Strong rejection of premarital sex, prostitution, pornography and 'sexual vice'. Smoking, drinking and use of cosmetics were discouraged.
• Anti-intellectualism.[15]
• Revindication of a glorious past as the key to a glorious future."

Sounds like your kind of folks.

Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

There's more to social conservatism than positions on issues.

For example, Hitler didn't advocate civic responsibility or due diligence in society. His society was built around social Darwinism and might makes right power politics. He didn't care about the rule of law or putting grace before law.

I mean I could argue liberals are just like Hitler too because he was a vegetarian during his regime, but that doesn't paint a complete picture, does it?

Hitler seems to have formulated much of his political philosophy during the years immediately after WWI:
"After World War I, Hitler stayed in the army, which was mainly engaged in suppressing socialist uprisings across Germany, including in Munich, where Hitler returned in 1919.

"He took part in 'national thinking' courses organised by the Education and Propaganda Department (Dept Ib/P) of the Bavarian Reichswehr, Headquarters 4 under Captain Karl Mayr.[1]

"These helped popularize the notion that there was a scapegoat responsible for the outbreak of war and Germany's defeat. 'International Jewry' was described as a scourge composed of communists and other politicians across the party spectrum.

"Such scape goating was essential to Hitler's political career, and it seems that he genuinely believed that Jews were responsible for Germany's post-war troubles. In July 1919 Hitler was appointed Verbindungsmann (intelligence agent) of anAufklärungskommando (reconnaissance commando) of the Reichswehr, both to influence other soldiers and to infiltrate the German Workers' Party (DAP). While he studied the activities of the DAP, Hitler became impressed with founder Anton Drexler's antisemitic, nationalist, anti-capitalist and anti-Marxist ideas.[2]"
Possibly, he picked up vegetarianism during his National Thinking Classes?
Political views of Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia

 

[JoeB131]

1. So...now you're not denying that the Allies could have ended the war earlier by aligning with anti-Nazi German resistance.

Good start.

Start asking yourself why they wouldn't.

Uh, no, not what I said. I said that there was no interest in it because 1) they had no chance of toppling Hitler and 2) they were pretty much just as bad as Hitler, anyway and 3) none of our allies would have gone along with letting germany keep the territory they had already taken.

2. USSR fought because Hitler turned on his long term ally, Stalin.
That has nothing to do with the fact that well before the war, FDR allied himself with a genocidal maniac.

Well, Stalin was hardly Hitler's ally. There was a lot of political maneuvering on all sides. Ribbentrop wanted to ally with China instead of Japan because China's Nationalists (Kuomintang) were about one step removed from being Nazis themselves. but the Japanese had a Navy and they were potential foils to the UK.
Mussolini sided with England and France the first time Hitler tried to annex Austria. Many have suggested that the reason why they threw Czechoslovakia under the bus in 1938 was that they hoped Hitler would act as a counter to Stalin.

Really, all the shit that went on, all FDR did was recognize Stalin was the power in Russia. Wow.



.

 

[regent]

Seems as if this thread is working towards creating some sort of alliance with Stalin, Hitler and FDR allied in some sort of mission to destroy the world? The big question, however, is how will they implicate Obama as the real leader of the plot?

 

[PoliticalChic]

1. So...now you're not denying that the Allies could have ended the war earlier by aligning with anti-Nazi German resistance.

Good start.

Start asking yourself why they wouldn't.

Uh, no, not what I said. I said that there was no interest in it because 1) they had no chance of toppling Hitler and 2) they were pretty much just as bad as Hitler, anyway and 3) none of our allies would have gone along with letting germany keep the territory they had already taken.

2. USSR fought because Hitler turned on his long term ally, Stalin.
That has nothing to do with the fact that well before the war, FDR allied himself with a genocidal maniac.

Well, Stalin was hardly Hitler's ally. There was a lot of political maneuvering on all sides. Ribbentrop wanted to ally with China instead of Japan because China's Nationalists (Kuomintang) were about one step removed from being Nazis themselves. but the Japanese had a Navy and they were potential foils to the UK.
Mussolini sided with England and France the first time Hitler tried to annex Austria. Many have suggested that the reason why they threw Czechoslovakia under the bus in 1938 was that they hoped Hitler would act as a counter to Stalin.

Really, all the shit that went on, all FDR did was recognize Stalin was the power in Russia. Wow.



.

"Well, Stalin was hardly Hitler's ally."


WHY????


Why do you make it impossible for me to leave you in the inconspicuousness you so richly deserve???

I try my best not to reveal your ignorance, you lack of any knowledge of history...but nooooooooo...

...you insist on your lacunae being acknowledged.


OK, Ok.....


1. The birth of "The New Soviet Man" was the stated aim of Marxism, breeding a new evolutionary form of human being who will think, look, and act differently.
What followed was the Nazi attempt to do exactly the same thing: in German, "We must create a new man! A new life form should appear!"

2. A year after Lenin's death, 1924, the NYTimes published a small article about a newly established party in Germany, the National Socialist Labor Party, which "...persists in believing that Lenin and Hitler can be compared or contrasted...Dr. Goebell's....assertion that Lenin was the greatest man second only to Hitler....and that the difference between communism and the Hitler faith was very slight...." November 27, 1925.

3. Shortly thereafter the Nazis found it more useful to stress differences, and the earlier campaign posters showing similarities disappeared, posters with both the hammer and sickle and the swastika.

a. "Hitler often stated that he learned much from reading Marx, and the whole of National Socialism is doctrinally based on Marxism."
George Watson, Historian, Cambridge.

b. "Socialists in Germany were national socialists, communists were international socialists."
Vladimir Bukovsky.



4. When Hitler began his advances on other countries, Stalin refused to join the nations talking of stopping him. Stalin was, in fact, pleased that Hitler was destroying the old order throughout Europe. "There will be no parliaments, no trade unions, no armies, no governments....then Stalin will come as the liberator...millions of people will be sitting in concentration camps, hoping someone will liberate them, then Stalin and the Red Army will come and liberate them. That was his plan."
Vladimir Bukovsky.

5. But Hitler didn't have the supplies nor resources he needed, so August 23, 1939, Soviet Russia' Foreign Minister Molotov signs the Nazi-Soviet Non-aggression Pact while German Foreign Minister Von Ribbentrop and Soviet leader Josef Stalin look on, while standing under a portrait of Lenin –materials to be provided in later economic agreements. (see item #8 below.)

6. September 1, 1939, Hitler attacked Poland....on September 17, Stalin attacks from the East. The Soviet radio transmitter in Minsk guided the Nazi bombers attacking Polish cities. Newsreel footage showed the Red Army in Nazi helmets, marching side by side with the SS. One photo shows the hammer and sickle along side the swastika.

a. The Soviet press depicted the battle as a fight against Polish fascism, with the peace-loving Nazi Germany and the Soviet Union fighting aggressive Polish fascism.

7. Hitler and Stalin signed secret protocols to divide up Europe. First, Stalin moved against Finland, November 1939....for the aggression, the USSR was expelled from the League of Nations. Hitler attacked to the West.

a. Norway was invaded with the direct help of the Soviet Union, providing the Soviet naval base near Murmansk. "German Admiral Raeder sent a letter of thanks to the Commander of the Soviet Navy, Kuznetsov."

8. Archival footage shows Nazi and Russian officers partying together. The USSR became the supplier of oil, iron ore, construction materials for Hitler's Blitzkrieg. And trainloads of grain, even while Russians were starving.

a. Communist party members throughout Europe were ordered to sabotage their nation's forces, and aid the Nazi attackers. The French Communist Party, July 1940: "It is comforting to see workers talking to German soldiers as friends,...'well done, comrades, and keep it up,' ...the brotherhood of man will not be forever a hope, it will become a living reality."

9. The Soviet Premier Molotov warned the West not to fight Nazi ideology. And in his address to the Supreme Soviet in the Kremlin, Molotov declared that fighting Nazi ideology was actually a crime.....because the two ideologies and methods were the same. Molotov oversaw the extermination of 7 million Ukrainians; Hitler, the Jews.

a. Many Jews fled to the USSR....where Stalin rounded them up, and delivered them to the Gestapo as a gesture of friendship.

10. "The Soviet NKVD trained the SS, taught them how to build concentration camps, as they had been operating for 20 years before the origin of the Nazis."
Viktor Suvorov, former Soviet Military Intelligence Officer.

"According to Suvorov, Stalin planned to use Nazi Germany as a proxy (the “Icebreaker”) against the West. For this reason Stalin provided significant material and political support to Adolf Hitler, while at the same time preparing the Red Army to “liberate” the whole of Europe from Nazi occupation."
Viktor Suvorov - Wikipedia the free encyclopedia
.


Pleeeeezzze don't force me to embarrass you like this again!!

 

[JoeB131]

okay, so you are going to go on with another crazy rant that no one is going to read.

Again. Turn off the Hate Radio, talk to some real professionals in the subject.

 

[PoliticalChic]

okay, so you are going to go on with another crazy rant that no one is going to read.

Again. Turn off the Hate Radio, talk to some real professionals in the subject.

Translation:
"She just showed what a dunce I am, again, but I'm too small a person to admit it....so I'll change the subject.
But...I better never say Hitler and Stalin weren't allies again! Whew...what a beating!"

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Did you know that FDR was the General Secretary of the USSR?

It's true.

Posts to come!

Most of FDR's Senior Staff reported to Stalin

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Instead, we had a President who supported Stalin and gave communism carte blanche in this country.

You seem unaware of that.

I am aware of that falsehood.

You clearly prefer that more Americans died in Europe- or perhaps that the Germans conquered all of Europe- rather than making an ally of convenience with the Soviet Union.

And FDR never gave 'carte blanche' to communism in the U.S.- just an idiotic claim.

So you don't know anything about FDR...hmmmkay