Francis Keys bridge hit by ship. Bridge collapses, mass casualty event.

[AZrailwhale]

Actually no.
If Biden meant what he said that the WH will appoint an expediter to facilitate the new bridge there will be no delays.
The I-35 bridge showed that the WH can in-fact cut thru the red tape,

So Biden’s “expediter” will be able to throw the environmentalist’s law suits and motions out of court? I will believe that when I see it. They will file lawsuits over everything from the process of clearing the debris disturbing the bottom mud, to the new bridge disturbing the water flow. Birds will be affected, fish will be threatened, species no one has ever heard of will be threatened with extinction, dogs and cats will live together and the sun will rise in the west if the bridge is replaced.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Still haven't given the names of the pilots. A basic piece of the story.

Why do you need to know? Got any conspiracy theories to try and back up?

 

[AZrailwhale]

As I have said, I have driven ******* aircraft carriers with no engines, based on momentum alone. The fact you don't understand that after several people have tried to explain it to you is indicative of an extremely low IQ. I don't really want to insult you, but the facts are clear! You are simply ******* stupid!

One of the fastest ways to stop a ship's momentum is to shift the rudder from hard left to right and back again, repeatedly. It acts like a brake when the rudder is off centerline because of the massive drag it puts on the ship!

We call that fishtailing in sailboats. It’s a quick way to shed speed in an emergency.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

You’re lying.

I'm lying? Yeah, right! Why is that I agree with just about everyone that disagrees with you?

I was a helmsman on the USS John C. Calhoun (SSBN-630), I was the conning officer on USS America (CV-66), Officer of the Deck on USS Wainwright (CG-28) and my division maintained the steering gear. I stood officer of the deck and was in charge of main propulsion on USS Dale (CG-19) and was in charge of main propulsion on USS Nassau (LHA-4), a carrier for Marine aircraft.

That's a submarine, two cruisers, and 2 aircraft carriers.

Yep, I am obviously lying about why you are a moron!

 

[AZrailwhale]

Oh I have, but just cruiser class club races. Nothing you'd tear out the galley for...

If you are serious, in a race the crew is constantly adjusting everything from halyard tension to outhaul tension to sail shape to ballast location. Being a big guy, I’ve spent many an hour stretched out on the leeward side up against the lifeline stanchions to induce heel in light airs while minimizing drag and many more hours with all the crew sitting on the rail on the windward side to reduce heel.

 

[AZrailwhale]

Now do that for 1.6 miles, which still closes the harbor to ship traffic. Why would you want to do that?

That was sort of the point I was making. A Floating or pontoon bridge is a non-starter in a busy harbor. But one could still be built quickly, that’s what they are designed for.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

What would their names being public do? The investigation is ongoing and I'm sure there are things (like the crew's names) that don't need to be made public information. Not only that, but someone's name has no bearing on the outcome.

Most people in the US don't know that in the UK, those accused of a crime are never identified publicly until they have been convicted.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

That was sort of the point I was making. A Floating or pontoon bridge is a non-starter in a busy harbor. But one could still be built quickly, that’s what they are designed for.

Well except for the fact that Army has basically done away with that capability. The bridges can no longer support the heavy tanks and IFVs used today. When I worked for the Army as a contractor, a number of my subordinate employees were National Guardsmen who were assigned to a bridging company. They were disbanded while I worked there, and many of those same Guardsmen were assigned to the border in Texas. A few even became Border Patrol agents.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

As I told Admiral what’s-His-Name, I am a mariner and a captain and my experience goes back forty years. I know from experience that rudder effect is minimal without propulsion.

Really? What is the biggest ship you ever served on?

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

Actually no.
If Biden meant what he said that the WH will appoint an expediter to facilitate the new bridge there will be no delays.
The I-35 bridge showed that the WH can in-fact cut thru the red tape,

I-35? I thought that was I-40 that had a bridge collapse in Oklahoma. I think you are confused.

 

[AZrailwhale]

What beach landing ships? We use landing craft, air cushioned now. LSTs are long gone!

The USN still has LSTs and the US Army has about seventy mixed LCM 8s and Runnymede Large Landing Craft That are similar to the old LCUs that can operate independently for up to eighteen days without support. They could be used as improvised ferry craft. The Park Service has a few LCMs used to support offshore islands as well.

 

[Admiral Rockwell Tory]

The USN still has LSTs and the US Army has about seventy mixed LCM 8s and Runnymede Large Landing Craft That are similar to the old LCUs that can operate independently for up to eighteen days without support. They could be used as improvised ferry craft. The Park Service has a few LCMs used to support offshore islands as well.

Really? Name them! I saw every stinking one decommissioned about 30 years ago.

United States Navy decommissioned its last Newport-class tank landing ship in 2000.

Landing Ship, Tank - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[skye]

Correct. Prop thrust is required for a Motor Vessel to have the ability to steer or maneuver. With dead engines, the vessel is at the total mercy of the currents.

I have not maritime knowledge, but the person who is making this statement, who is the President

of International Harbour Association does..... so that's why people are a bit confused

about the collapse of the bridge.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

There is an effect if moving by current, but it depends on how strong the current and the direction of the ship while in that current.

Right. But again, it is minimal.

I never said or suggested that there is no effect without propulsion. Yet some here are behaving like this is what I said.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

You could not be more wrong.

Again, I speak from experience. Driving vessels has been my occupation for forty years.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

It depends entirely on the design. Planing and semi-planing hulls have small rudders designed for low drag, and the rudder is barely larger than the prop. That rudder doesn't have a lot of surface area and it doesn't give you much turning power at low speeds.

Sailboats with high-aspect fin and spade and small 2-blade props don't much care if the prop is spinning or not.

And there is everything in between. It's all about creating a high-pressure area on one side, and different boats do it differently based on their operational reqs.

Perhaps. But we’re talking about a 958 foot long ship of over 95,000 gross tons.

 

[para bellum]

Perhaps. But we’re talking about a 958 foot long ship of over 95,000 gross tons.

And is a single screw ship with a giant rudder that had 8 kts of headway and a bow thruster.

Had it not lost hydraulics, it would have been able to maintain the channel without any problem.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

Really? What is the biggest ship you ever served on?

What difference does that make?

Are you now trying turn this into a pissing match?

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

And is a single screw ship with a giant rudder that had 8 kts of headway and a bow thruster.

Had it not lost hydraulics, it would have been able to maintain the channel without any problem.

Define “giant” in this context.

The rudder is the size it needs to be for the size of the ship just like any other vessel.

As for the bow thruster, bow thrusters (tunnel types) are pretty much useless beyond three knots or so.

 

[para bellum]

Define “giant” in this context.

The rudder is the size it needs to be for the size of the ship just like any other vessel.

God I can't stand posers.

The ship was on course in the channel, the next turn was after the bridge. All it needed to do was maintain the direction it was already traveling.

It was only a half mile to the bridge when it lost power. It was making 8 kts. Figure it out, "captain".

As for the bow thruster, bow thrusters (tunnel types) are pretty much useless beyond three knots or so.

Yeah, well you also say the rudder is pretty much useless when the propeller isn't turning, so your knowledge is already demonstrated lacking.

Ships in Puget Sound routinely use their bow thrusters to help them navigate turns so they don't have to slow down. They are going 10+ kts. If there is water in the tunnel, the thruster will push it out- it doesn't care how fast the ship is moving.

The Dali would not have needed it's thruster, the rudder alone would have managed it fine. But it had one, and it would have been available if the hydraulics were up.

This is a giant rudder. For scale, that is a man standing next to the stern thruster.