Former Ukrainian Prosecutor: ‘No Doubt’ Joe Biden Forced Me Out to Protect Hunter Biden

[protectionist]

I have no problem with Biden being investigated over this. The problem I have is a candidate in an election soliciting a foreign nation to open an investigation into another candidate. That's abuse of office. If that's allowed, there's nothing to ever stop an incumbent president running for re-election to take out all of their election rivals in such fashion.

NO IT'S NOT abuse of office. And you dopey libs don't get to set definitions for everyone to follow. If a president (candidate or not) sees ANYONE engaging in unscrupulous behavior (foreign country or not), he should open an investigation of that, and then take whatever action is appropriate.

Dems are expecting us to swallow the idea that Biden is immune from criticism, because he's a candidate.

EARTH TO DUMOCRATS: NOBODY is immune from criticism, investigation, or prosecution. NOBODY. And if election rivals do what Biden (and Pelosi) did, they SHOULD be taken out. Now

 

[protectionist]

Without benefitting Biden or his son, there is nothing wrong with that video. And you failed miserably to show Biden or his son benefited.

Are trying to get yourself committed to an insane asylum. He threatened the Ukrainians with the threat of withholding a Billion $$ if they didn't do what he said.

And you're also saying that Payoff Hunter didn't get paid huge bucks to bring his dad's influence and American tax $$ to the Ukrainians' table ? (while he brought nothing else) LOL

 

[protectionist]

You still have no evidence he or his son personally gained from it; and there are several Ukrainian officials who say the Bidens did nothing wrong.

You'e saying Shokin wasn't fired ?

You're saying Hunter didn't get $50,000+/month (for doing nothing) ?

Democrats are insane. They'll say anything. I just heard today that they're advocating abolishing prisons. Pheeeeew!

 

[basquebromance]

Even if Biden is the nominee, he's still better than Trump:
- 20% less doddering and incoherent
- slightly less unconvincing hair plugs
- guilty of creepy behavior but not outright sexual assault
- supportive of systemic racism, but with an attempt at plausible deniability

Biden admitted to hair plugs, everyone does it, including Strom Thurmond, who had blonde hair plugs till the day he died

 

[AntonToo]

Why don't you ask Trump, who just may have hinged his presidency on trying to go after Biden.

.

Oh yeah, right. Biden is so important to the Trump presidency. LOL

View attachment 283743

Trump campaign says you are clueless and will spend $1 million dollars in political TV ads against Biden in early voting primary states.

Obviously they are afraid of him the most.

Trump campaign to drop bomb on Biden in early voting states

 

[Faun]

I have no problem with Biden being investigated over this. The problem I have is a candidate in an election soliciting a foreign nation to open an investigation into another candidate. That's abuse of office. If that's allowed, there's nothing to ever stop an incumbent president running for re-election to take out all of their election rivals in such fashion.

NO IT'S NOT abuse of office. And you dopey libs don't get to set definitions for everyone to follow. If a president (candidate or not) sees ANYONE engaging in unscrupulous behavior (foreign country or not), he should open an investigation of that, and then take whatever action is appropriate.

Dems are expecting us to swallow the idea that Biden is immune from criticism, because he's a candidate.

EARTH TO DUMOCRATS: NOBODY is immune from criticism, investigation, or prosecution. NOBODY. And if election rivals do what Biden (and Pelosi) did, they SHOULD be taken out. Now

Dumbfuck, actually, the Liberals in Democrat-led House do get to set the definition of abuse of power given they have the power to impeach Trump. You really don't know shit.

 

[Andylusion]

But Trump never said the money would be held until Ukraine agreed.... Ukraine did not agree.... and the money was given without any investigation into Biden.

Biden DID say the money would be held until a prosecutor was fired, who happen to be investigating a company his corrupt drug addicted son was being paid $50,000 a month, without any credentials to be a board member of.... the money was in fact withheld.... the Prosecutor was fired, and only then was the money given.

"But Trump never said the money would be held until Ukraine agreed.... Ukraine did not agree.... and the money was given without any investigation into Biden."

Trump's actions spoke for him. He held up the money. The Ukraine president did agree to investigate. And then Trump released the money.


"Biden DID say the money would be held until a prosecutor was fired, who happen to be investigating a company his corrupt drug addicted son was being paid $50,000 a month, without any credentials to be a board member of.... the money was in fact withheld.... the Prosecutor was fired, and only then was the money given."

That's not true. There was no active investigation...

Ukraine Prosecutor Says No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Bidens

Back in March 2016, Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees if Ukraine failed to address corruption and remove its Prosecutor General, Viktor Shokin, who soon after left office amid widespread calls for his dismissal. Though Shokin had begun a probe into Burisma, it was dormant when he departed, according to a former prosecutor.​

Did Biden know specifically that there was no investigation? Dormant, does not mean ended. It means dormant. The probe had started.

You can stop with that loser argument.

Prove Ukraine agreed to investigate Hunter Biden.

I read the phone transcript word for word. I did not see such a response.

LOL

Dormant .... means Shokin wasn't actively investigating.

And the international community who wanted him thrown out wanted that because he wasn't making a concerted effort to fight corruption.

Which means the investigation was not closed. If it was closed, then it wouldn't be 'dormant'.

Additionally, I don't know why you keep bringing up "the international community".

The "international community" has a problem with corruption in the Ukraine right now. Trump's call transcript, shows he talked for the vast majority of the call, about general corruption.

So if your excuse for Biden is "the international community", then our excuse for Trump is "the international community".

We're talking about was there an illegal act, such as a quid pro quo. Biden... clear quid pro quo, by his own words.

Trump... not so much.

Which is why I didn't say it was closed. I said Shokin was not actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

Which means there was no quid pro quo.

What??? The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

The quid pro quo was .... fire that guy, and I'll give you money. Did that happen? Yes it did.

Now you can argue that possible..... POSSIBLY.... that this did not directly benefit Hunter Biden.
I am somewhat sympathetic to that argument, that POSSIBLY.... this was not done specifically to help Hunter.

However, there is no more, and no less evidence against Biden, than their is Trump. There is no more evidence to suggest Trump had a quid pro quo, than Biden.

That's where my rub comes. I am honestly open to the possibility that Joe had no more of an interest than getting rid of a bad prosecutor. I'm open to that. However, there was a clear quid pro quo. It might have been a purely innocent quid pro quo, but it was a quid pro quo. You fire that guy, and I give you money. You don't, and I won't.

And I equally think that Trump was merely concerned about corruption. And I think he only mentioned that Biden was bragging he got the prosecutor removed, because it looked bad to Trump. And it does look bad. The news when this happened was all over the place about how it looked bad.... because it does.

See that's the difference between you and me. I am looking at this objectively.... and you are looking at this as a mindless partisan. That's why you can watch a video of Biden saying directly that he held up the money until a prosecutor was fired, and then say "see! no quid pro quo!".

 

[Faun]

Without benefitting Biden or his son, there is nothing wrong with that video. And you failed miserably to show Biden or his son benefited.

Are trying to get yourself committed to an insane asylum. He threatened the Ukrainians with the threat of withholding a Billion $$ if they didn't do what he said.

And you're also saying that Payoff Hunter didn't get paid huge bucks to bring his dad's influence and American tax $$ to the Ukrainians' table ? (while he brought nothing else) LOL

"Are trying to get yourself committed to an insane asylum. He threatened the Ukrainians with the threat of withholding a Billion $$ if they didn't do what he said."

Trumptard, he was allowed to do that. He ess acting on behalf of the United States. The only thing that would make that illegal is if he did it to benefit himself or his son; and as you've demonstrated through your utter failure to prove, you have no evidence he or his son personally profited.

"And you're also saying that Payoff Hunter didn't get paid huge bucks to bring his dad's influence and American tax $$ to the Ukrainians' table ? (while he brought nothing else)"

Hunter got that job 2 years before his dad had Shokin sacked and 1 year before Shokin became Ukraine's General Prosecutor. Those events couldn't be more unrelated. And getting a job based on his father being VP is not a crime. They hired him for his name to bolster their image and give off the appearance they had strong ties to the U.S.. A conflict of interest at worst but not a crime.

 

[Faun]

You still have no evidence he or his son personally gained from it; and there are several Ukrainian officials who say the Bidens did nothing wrong.

You'e saying Shokin wasn't fired ?

You're saying Hunter didn't get $50,000+/month (for doing nothing) ?

LOL

Poor, senile gramps. You're throwing shit like a monkey. You're not proving crimes took place.

 

[Faun]

"But Trump never said the money would be held until Ukraine agreed.... Ukraine did not agree.... and the money was given without any investigation into Biden."

Trump's actions spoke for him. He held up the money. The Ukraine president did agree to investigate. And then Trump released the money.


"Biden DID say the money would be held until a prosecutor was fired, who happen to be investigating a company his corrupt drug addicted son was being paid $50,000 a month, without any credentials to be a board member of.... the money was in fact withheld.... the Prosecutor was fired, and only then was the money given."

That's not true. There was no active investigation...

Ukraine Prosecutor Says No Evidence of Wrongdoing by Bidens

Back in March 2016, Biden threatened to withhold $1 billion in loan guarantees if Ukraine failed to address corruption and remove its Prosecutor General, Viktor Shokin, who soon after left office amid widespread calls for his dismissal. Though Shokin had begun a probe into Burisma, it was dormant when he departed, according to a former prosecutor.​

Did Biden know specifically that there was no investigation? Dormant, does not mean ended. It means dormant. The probe had started.

You can stop with that loser argument.

Prove Ukraine agreed to investigate Hunter Biden.

I read the phone transcript word for word. I did not see such a response.

LOL

Dormant .... means Shokin wasn't actively investigating.

And the international community who wanted him thrown out wanted that because he wasn't making a concerted effort to fight corruption.

Which means the investigation was not closed. If it was closed, then it wouldn't be 'dormant'.

Additionally, I don't know why you keep bringing up "the international community".

The "international community" has a problem with corruption in the Ukraine right now. Trump's call transcript, shows he talked for the vast majority of the call, about general corruption.

So if your excuse for Biden is "the international community", then our excuse for Trump is "the international community".

We're talking about was there an illegal act, such as a quid pro quo. Biden... clear quid pro quo, by his own words.

Trump... not so much.

Which is why I didn't say it was closed. I said Shokin was not actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

Which means there was no quid pro quo.

What??? The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

The quid pro quo was .... fire that guy, and I'll give you money. Did that happen? Yes it did.

Now you can argue that possible..... POSSIBLY.... that this did not directly benefit Hunter Biden.
I am somewhat sympathetic to that argument, that POSSIBLY.... this was not done specifically to help Hunter.

However, there is no more, and no less evidence against Biden, than their is Trump. There is no more evidence to suggest Trump had a quid pro quo, than Biden.

That's where my rub comes. I am honestly open to the possibility that Joe had no more of an interest than getting rid of a bad prosecutor. I'm open to that. However, there was a clear quid pro quo. It might have been a purely innocent quid pro quo, but it was a quid pro quo. You fire that guy, and I give you money. You don't, and I won't.

And I equally think that Trump was merely concerned about corruption. And I think he only mentioned that Biden was bragging he got the prosecutor removed, because it looked bad to Trump. And it does look bad. The news when this happened was all over the place about how it looked bad.... because it does.

See that's the difference between you and me. I am looking at this objectively.... and you are looking at this as a mindless partisan. That's why you can watch a video of Biden saying directly that he held up the money until a prosecutor was fired, and then say "see! no quid pro quo!".

"The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you"."The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

Biden was acting on the behalf of the United States. He gained nothing personally from it. That is not a crime.

Trump personally gained from it by attempting to tarnish a rival candidate. Which is why Trump engaged his own personal attorney to subvert official channels of communication with Ukraine's president.

 

[Dragonlady]

According to Rudy the other night on Laura's show, the law is when you use money to force somebody into an action, that is bribery.

So when the bank forces your to buy fire insurance for your house before giving you a mortgage, that's bribery? Bribery is defined as:

"Bribery refers to the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of any item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty".

The Ukraine asked NATO and the IMF for financial help in fighting the Russians. Joe Biden was acting on the behest of NATO, the IMF, and the European Union, all of whom were standing by to provide financial and military assistance to the Ukraine, and membership in NATO, but wanted corruption dealt with in the Ukraine. Biden was doing THEIR bidding in asking for the corrupt prosecutor be fired. The stalled investigation of Burisma started BEFORE Hunter Biden joined the board. Hunter was NOT under investigation when Joe intervened, although the cynic in me wonders if the President of Burisma brought Biden in hoping that this would influence the Americans. It did not.

Guliani used to be a top prosecutor. Now he's a corrupt politician, just like Trump. Guliani is prepared to lie, cheat and steal for Trump. He's also totally invested in conspiracy theories, and is allowing the Russians to manufacture evidence to help Trump's re-election campaign. When you have criminal governments, like the Russians, it's very easy to manufacture court documents, and official government papers to smear your enemies. The Russians have raised political smear jobs to an art form. That's what they did to the American ambassador to the Ukraine - had the Russians forge documents to make her look bad, giving Trump an excuse to recall her.

Rudy Guliani is a disgrace to the nation, and he's going to spend the rest of his days in jail with Paul Manafort. Just look at what happened to those closest to Nixon, and this mess in the Ukraine is far more blatantly impeachable than what Nixon did. There's no conspiracy to prove, other than the use of the super secret computer to hide the transcript. The President has admitted his guilt.

There's a whole investigation necessary to uncover all of the illegal acts by "All The President's Men" in trying to obtain President Trump's deliverables - those who met with Ukrainian officials and attempted to push these phony investigations forward. Guliani, Pompeo, Barr, Volker, Sonderland, and the recall of the Ukrainian Ambassador so that Volker could be put into place to bully Zelensky and others. Mike Pence is also involved because he was both aware of the phone call, and participated in the pressure campaign by cancelling his trip to Zelensky's inauguration. This, in effect, withhold's the Trump Administration's seal of approval on Zelensky's election.

This is why the House needs to hear from witnesses. There is enough information in the public record, including Trump's public confession and the call transcript, to impeach Donald Trump for abuse of power and get a conviction in both the House and the Senate. Just on that one charge alone. But in order to see the extent of the abuse and corruption, and addition charges in the conspiracy to execute the President's wishes, and cover up the extortion, would bring additional charges, to those individuals.

And before you start the with the "poor harassed Trump", endless investigations, etc., Trump has always created enemies for himself, and claimed victimhood. The Southern District of New York has been trying to nail Trump for his illegal activities since he started running bankruptcy scams.

3000 plus lawsuits. Many of them launched by Trump. He feuded with everyone in Hollywood. Everyone who ever lost money investing with him or working for him sued him. This chaos, harrassment, and victimization is the way Trump operates. He always has. And the only people who don't get destroyed by him, are Trump and his family.

Trump has over 100 separate businesses in Turkey. Who needs the Kurds?

 

[Andylusion]

Did Biden know specifically that there was no investigation? Dormant, does not mean ended. It means dormant. The probe had started.

You can stop with that loser argument.

Prove Ukraine agreed to investigate Hunter Biden.

I read the phone transcript word for word. I did not see such a response.

LOL

Dormant .... means Shokin wasn't actively investigating.

And the international community who wanted him thrown out wanted that because he wasn't making a concerted effort to fight corruption.

Which means the investigation was not closed. If it was closed, then it wouldn't be 'dormant'.

Additionally, I don't know why you keep bringing up "the international community".

The "international community" has a problem with corruption in the Ukraine right now. Trump's call transcript, shows he talked for the vast majority of the call, about general corruption.

So if your excuse for Biden is "the international community", then our excuse for Trump is "the international community".

We're talking about was there an illegal act, such as a quid pro quo. Biden... clear quid pro quo, by his own words.

Trump... not so much.

Which is why I didn't say it was closed. I said Shokin was not actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

Which means there was no quid pro quo.

What??? The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

The quid pro quo was .... fire that guy, and I'll give you money. Did that happen? Yes it did.

Now you can argue that possible..... POSSIBLY.... that this did not directly benefit Hunter Biden.
I am somewhat sympathetic to that argument, that POSSIBLY.... this was not done specifically to help Hunter.

However, there is no more, and no less evidence against Biden, than their is Trump. There is no more evidence to suggest Trump had a quid pro quo, than Biden.

That's where my rub comes. I am honestly open to the possibility that Joe had no more of an interest than getting rid of a bad prosecutor. I'm open to that. However, there was a clear quid pro quo. It might have been a purely innocent quid pro quo, but it was a quid pro quo. You fire that guy, and I give you money. You don't, and I won't.

And I equally think that Trump was merely concerned about corruption. And I think he only mentioned that Biden was bragging he got the prosecutor removed, because it looked bad to Trump. And it does look bad. The news when this happened was all over the place about how it looked bad.... because it does.

See that's the difference between you and me. I am looking at this objectively.... and you are looking at this as a mindless partisan. That's why you can watch a video of Biden saying directly that he held up the money until a prosecutor was fired, and then say "see! no quid pro quo!".

"The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you"."The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

Biden was acting on the behalf of the United States. He gained nothing personally from it. That is not a crime.

Trump personally gained from it by attempting to tarnish a rival candidate. Which is why Trump engaged his own personal attorney to subvert official channels of communication with Ukraine's president.

Trump gained nothing. He released the money, without them investigating Biden.

You have the right to wrong, but it doesn't change the facts, just because you want to believe it.

 

[Dragonlady]

LOL

Dormant .... means Shokin wasn't actively investigating.

And the international community who wanted him thrown out wanted that because he wasn't making a concerted effort to fight corruption.

Which means the investigation was not closed. If it was closed, then it wouldn't be 'dormant'.

Additionally, I don't know why you keep bringing up "the international community".

The "international community" has a problem with corruption in the Ukraine right now. Trump's call transcript, shows he talked for the vast majority of the call, about general corruption.

So if your excuse for Biden is "the international community", then our excuse for Trump is "the international community".

We're talking about was there an illegal act, such as a quid pro quo. Biden... clear quid pro quo, by his own words.

Trump... not so much.

Which is why I didn't say it was closed. I said Shokin was not actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

Which means there was no quid pro quo.

What??? The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

The quid pro quo was .... fire that guy, and I'll give you money. Did that happen? Yes it did.

Now you can argue that possible..... POSSIBLY.... that this did not directly benefit Hunter Biden.
I am somewhat sympathetic to that argument, that POSSIBLY.... this was not done specifically to help Hunter.

However, there is no more, and no less evidence against Biden, than their is Trump. There is no more evidence to suggest Trump had a quid pro quo, than Biden.

That's where my rub comes. I am honestly open to the possibility that Joe had no more of an interest than getting rid of a bad prosecutor. I'm open to that. However, there was a clear quid pro quo. It might have been a purely innocent quid pro quo, but it was a quid pro quo. You fire that guy, and I give you money. You don't, and I won't.

And I equally think that Trump was merely concerned about corruption. And I think he only mentioned that Biden was bragging he got the prosecutor removed, because it looked bad to Trump. And it does look bad. The news when this happened was all over the place about how it looked bad.... because it does.

See that's the difference between you and me. I am looking at this objectively.... and you are looking at this as a mindless partisan. That's why you can watch a video of Biden saying directly that he held up the money until a prosecutor was fired, and then say "see! no quid pro quo!".

"The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you"."The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

Biden was acting on the behalf of the United States. He gained nothing personally from it. That is not a crime.

Trump personally gained from it by attempting to tarnish a rival candidate. Which is why Trump engaged his own personal attorney to subvert official channels of communication with Ukraine's president.

Trump gained nothing. He released the money, without them investigating Biden.

You have the right to wrong, but it doesn't change the facts, just because you want to believe it.

The ONLY reason that Trump gained nothing is because of the whistleblower. Trump only released the military aid to the Ukrainains AFTER news of the phone and the whistleblower complaint became public. They were aware of the complaint from the beginning, as the DNI testified that he told the White House about it to see if they were going to try to claim an Executive Privilege. The White House tried to delay Congress receiving the complaint, but were not able to dissaude the DNI from forwarding it on.

That was in September, fully three months after Congress approved the aid, nearly two months after Trump's phone with Zelensky. That's 2 months, during which we have Barr and Guliani running around Europe, trying to find proof that Russia didn't hack the 2016 election, and the Biden's are corrupt, and various Trump appointees attempted to strong arm the Ukrainian government to acede to Trump's wishes, and publically announce these invesgiations.

You're right. Trump gained nothing, but it certainly wasn't from lack of trying.

 

[WEATHER53]

“No doubt” from the horses mouth!
“He’s lying” from the horses asses.

 

[WEATHER53]

According to Rudy the other night on Laura's show, the law is when you use money to force somebody into an action, that is bribery.

So when the bank forces your to buy fire insurance for your house before giving you a mortgage, that's bribery? Bribery is defined as:

"Bribery refers to the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of any item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty".

The Ukraine asked NATO and the IMF for financial help in fighting the Russians. Joe Biden was acting on the behest of NATO, the IMF, and the European Union, all of whom were standing by to provide financial and military assistance to the Ukraine, and membership in NATO, but wanted corruption dealt with in the Ukraine. Biden was doing THEIR bidding in asking for the corrupt prosecutor be fired. The stalled investigation of Burisma started BEFORE Hunter Biden joined the board. Hunter was NOT under investigation when Joe intervened, although the cynic in me wonders if the President of Burisma brought Biden in hoping that this would influence the Americans. It did not.

Guliani used to be a top prosecutor. Now he's a corrupt politician, just like Trump. Guliani is prepared to lie, cheat and steal for Trump. He's also totally invested in conspiracy theories, and is allowing the Russians to manufacture evidence to help Trump's re-election campaign. When you have criminal governments, like the Russians, it's very easy to manufacture court documents, and official government papers to smear your enemies. The Russians have raised political smear jobs to an art form. That's what they did to the American ambassador to the Ukraine - had the Russians forge documents to make her look bad, giving Trump an excuse to recall her.

Rudy Guliani is a disgrace to the nation, and he's going to spend the rest of his days in jail with Paul Manafort. Just look at what happened to those closest to Nixon, and this mess in the Ukraine is far more blatantly impeachable than what Nixon did. There's no conspiracy to prove, other than the use of the super secret computer to hide the transcript. The President has admitted his guilt.

There's a whole investigation necessary to uncover all of the illegal acts by "All The President's Men" in trying to obtain President Trump's deliverables - those who met with Ukrainian officials and attempted to push these phony investigations forward. Guliani, Pompeo, Barr, Volker, Sonderland, and the recall of the Ukrainian Ambassador so that Volker could be put into place to bully Zelensky and others. Mike Pence is also involved because he was both aware of the phone call, and participated in the pressure campaign by cancelling his trip to Zelensky's inauguration. This, in effect, withhold's the Trump Administration's seal of approval on Zelensky's election.

This is why the House needs to hear from witnesses. There is enough information in the public record, including Trump's public confession and the call transcript, to impeach Donald Trump for abuse of power and get a conviction in both the House and the Senate. Just on that one charge alone. But in order to see the extent of the abuse and corruption, and addition charges in the conspiracy to execute the President's wishes, and cover up the extortion, would bring additional charges, to those individuals.

And before you start the with the "poor harassed Trump", endless investigations, etc., Trump has always created enemies for himself, and claimed victimhood. The Southern District of New York has been trying to nail Trump for his illegal activities since he started running bankruptcy scams.

3000 plus lawsuits. Many of them launched by Trump. He feuded with everyone in Hollywood. Everyone who ever lost money investing with him or working for him sued him. This chaos, harrassment, and victimization is the way Trump operates. He always has. And the only people who don't get destroyed by him, are Trump and his family.

Trump has over 100 separate businesses in Turkey. Who needs the Kurds?

Lack of brevity=lack of wit

 

[Dragonlady]

According to Rudy the other night on Laura's show, the law is when you use money to force somebody into an action, that is bribery.

So when the bank forces your to buy fire insurance for your house before giving you a mortgage, that's bribery? Bribery is defined as:

"Bribery refers to the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of any item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty".

The Ukraine asked NATO and the IMF for financial help in fighting the Russians. Joe Biden was acting on the behest of NATO, the IMF, and the European Union, all of whom were standing by to provide financial and military assistance to the Ukraine, and membership in NATO, but wanted corruption dealt with in the Ukraine. Biden was doing THEIR bidding in asking for the corrupt prosecutor be fired. The stalled investigation of Burisma started BEFORE Hunter Biden joined the board. Hunter was NOT under investigation when Joe intervened, although the cynic in me wonders if the President of Burisma brought Biden in hoping that this would influence the Americans. It did not.

Guliani used to be a top prosecutor. Now he's a corrupt politician, just like Trump. Guliani is prepared to lie, cheat and steal for Trump. He's also totally invested in conspiracy theories, and is allowing the Russians to manufacture evidence to help Trump's re-election campaign. When you have criminal governments, like the Russians, it's very easy to manufacture court documents, and official government papers to smear your enemies. The Russians have raised political smear jobs to an art form. That's what they did to the American ambassador to the Ukraine - had the Russians forge documents to make her look bad, giving Trump an excuse to recall her.

Rudy Guliani is a disgrace to the nation, and he's going to spend the rest of his days in jail with Paul Manafort. Just look at what happened to those closest to Nixon, and this mess in the Ukraine is far more blatantly impeachable than what Nixon did. There's no conspiracy to prove, other than the use of the super secret computer to hide the transcript. The President has admitted his guilt.

There's a whole investigation necessary to uncover all of the illegal acts by "All The President's Men" in trying to obtain President Trump's deliverables - those who met with Ukrainian officials and attempted to push these phony investigations forward. Guliani, Pompeo, Barr, Volker, Sonderland, and the recall of the Ukrainian Ambassador so that Volker could be put into place to bully Zelensky and others. Mike Pence is also involved because he was both aware of the phone call, and participated in the pressure campaign by cancelling his trip to Zelensky's inauguration. This, in effect, withhold's the Trump Administration's seal of approval on Zelensky's election.

This is why the House needs to hear from witnesses. There is enough information in the public record, including Trump's public confession and the call transcript, to impeach Donald Trump for abuse of power and get a conviction in both the House and the Senate. Just on that one charge alone. But in order to see the extent of the abuse and corruption, and addition charges in the conspiracy to execute the President's wishes, and cover up the extortion, would bring additional charges, to those individuals.

And before you start the with the "poor harassed Trump", endless investigations, etc., Trump has always created enemies for himself, and claimed victimhood. The Southern District of New York has been trying to nail Trump for his illegal activities since he started running bankruptcy scams.

3000 plus lawsuits. Many of them launched by Trump. He feuded with everyone in Hollywood. Everyone who ever lost money investing with him or working for him sued him. This chaos, harrassment, and victimization is the way Trump operates. He always has. And the only people who don't get destroyed by him, are Trump and his family.

Trump has over 100 separate businesses in Turkey. Who needs the Kurds?

Lack of brevity=lack of wit

Complex situations involving national security cannot be explained on a bumber sticker. Only a fool thinks otherwise.

 

[WEATHER53]

According to Rudy the other night on Laura's show, the law is when you use money to force somebody into an action, that is bribery.

So when the bank forces your to buy fire insurance for your house before giving you a mortgage, that's bribery? Bribery is defined as:

"Bribery refers to the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of any item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty".

The Ukraine asked NATO and the IMF for financial help in fighting the Russians. Joe Biden was acting on the behest of NATO, the IMF, and the European Union, all of whom were standing by to provide financial and military assistance to the Ukraine, and membership in NATO, but wanted corruption dealt with in the Ukraine. Biden was doing THEIR bidding in asking for the corrupt prosecutor be fired. The stalled investigation of Burisma started BEFORE Hunter Biden joined the board. Hunter was NOT under investigation when Joe intervened, although the cynic in me wonders if the President of Burisma brought Biden in hoping that this would influence the Americans. It did not.

Guliani used to be a top prosecutor. Now he's a corrupt politician, just like Trump. Guliani is prepared to lie, cheat and steal for Trump. He's also totally invested in conspiracy theories, and is allowing the Russians to manufacture evidence to help Trump's re-election campaign. When you have criminal governments, like the Russians, it's very easy to manufacture court documents, and official government papers to smear your enemies. The Russians have raised political smear jobs to an art form. That's what they did to the American ambassador to the Ukraine - had the Russians forge documents to make her look bad, giving Trump an excuse to recall her.

Rudy Guliani is a disgrace to the nation, and he's going to spend the rest of his days in jail with Paul Manafort. Just look at what happened to those closest to Nixon, and this mess in the Ukraine is far more blatantly impeachable than what Nixon did. There's no conspiracy to prove, other than the use of the super secret computer to hide the transcript. The President has admitted his guilt.

There's a whole investigation necessary to uncover all of the illegal acts by "All The President's Men" in trying to obtain President Trump's deliverables - those who met with Ukrainian officials and attempted to push these phony investigations forward. Guliani, Pompeo, Barr, Volker, Sonderland, and the recall of the Ukrainian Ambassador so that Volker could be put into place to bully Zelensky and others. Mike Pence is also involved because he was both aware of the phone call, and participated in the pressure campaign by cancelling his trip to Zelensky's inauguration. This, in effect, withhold's the Trump Administration's seal of approval on Zelensky's election.

This is why the House needs to hear from witnesses. There is enough information in the public record, including Trump's public confession and the call transcript, to impeach Donald Trump for abuse of power and get a conviction in both the House and the Senate. Just on that one charge alone. But in order to see the extent of the abuse and corruption, and addition charges in the conspiracy to execute the President's wishes, and cover up the extortion, would bring additional charges, to those individuals.

And before you start the with the "poor harassed Trump", endless investigations, etc., Trump has always created enemies for himself, and claimed victimhood. The Southern District of New York has been trying to nail Trump for his illegal activities since he started running bankruptcy scams.

3000 plus lawsuits. Many of them launched by Trump. He feuded with everyone in Hollywood. Everyone who ever lost money investing with him or working for him sued him. This chaos, harrassment, and victimization is the way Trump operates. He always has. And the only people who don't get destroyed by him, are Trump and his family.

Trump has over 100 separate businesses in Turkey. Who needs the Kurds?

Lack of brevity=lack of wit

Complex situations involving national security cannot be explained on a bumber sticker. Only a fool thinks otherwise.

Well at least it wasn’t a rambling, desperate, pretzel twist for once.

 

[Dragonlady]

According to Rudy the other night on Laura's show, the law is when you use money to force somebody into an action, that is bribery.

So when the bank forces your to buy fire insurance for your house before giving you a mortgage, that's bribery? Bribery is defined as:

"Bribery refers to the offering, giving, soliciting, or receiving of any item of value as a means of influencing the actions of an individual holding a public or legal duty".

The Ukraine asked NATO and the IMF for financial help in fighting the Russians. Joe Biden was acting on the behest of NATO, the IMF, and the European Union, all of whom were standing by to provide financial and military assistance to the Ukraine, and membership in NATO, but wanted corruption dealt with in the Ukraine. Biden was doing THEIR bidding in asking for the corrupt prosecutor be fired. The stalled investigation of Burisma started BEFORE Hunter Biden joined the board. Hunter was NOT under investigation when Joe intervened, although the cynic in me wonders if the President of Burisma brought Biden in hoping that this would influence the Americans. It did not.

Guliani used to be a top prosecutor. Now he's a corrupt politician, just like Trump. Guliani is prepared to lie, cheat and steal for Trump. He's also totally invested in conspiracy theories, and is allowing the Russians to manufacture evidence to help Trump's re-election campaign. When you have criminal governments, like the Russians, it's very easy to manufacture court documents, and official government papers to smear your enemies. The Russians have raised political smear jobs to an art form. That's what they did to the American ambassador to the Ukraine - had the Russians forge documents to make her look bad, giving Trump an excuse to recall her.

Rudy Guliani is a disgrace to the nation, and he's going to spend the rest of his days in jail with Paul Manafort. Just look at what happened to those closest to Nixon, and this mess in the Ukraine is far more blatantly impeachable than what Nixon did. There's no conspiracy to prove, other than the use of the super secret computer to hide the transcript. The President has admitted his guilt.

There's a whole investigation necessary to uncover all of the illegal acts by "All The President's Men" in trying to obtain President Trump's deliverables - those who met with Ukrainian officials and attempted to push these phony investigations forward. Guliani, Pompeo, Barr, Volker, Sonderland, and the recall of the Ukrainian Ambassador so that Volker could be put into place to bully Zelensky and others. Mike Pence is also involved because he was both aware of the phone call, and participated in the pressure campaign by cancelling his trip to Zelensky's inauguration. This, in effect, withhold's the Trump Administration's seal of approval on Zelensky's election.

This is why the House needs to hear from witnesses. There is enough information in the public record, including Trump's public confession and the call transcript, to impeach Donald Trump for abuse of power and get a conviction in both the House and the Senate. Just on that one charge alone. But in order to see the extent of the abuse and corruption, and addition charges in the conspiracy to execute the President's wishes, and cover up the extortion, would bring additional charges, to those individuals.

And before you start the with the "poor harassed Trump", endless investigations, etc., Trump has always created enemies for himself, and claimed victimhood. The Southern District of New York has been trying to nail Trump for his illegal activities since he started running bankruptcy scams.

3000 plus lawsuits. Many of them launched by Trump. He feuded with everyone in Hollywood. Everyone who ever lost money investing with him or working for him sued him. This chaos, harrassment, and victimization is the way Trump operates. He always has. And the only people who don't get destroyed by him, are Trump and his family.

Trump has over 100 separate businesses in Turkey. Who needs the Kurds?

Lack of brevity=lack of wit

Complex situations involving national security cannot be explained on a bumber sticker. Only a fool thinks otherwise.

Well at least it wasn’t a rambling, desperate, pretzel twist for once.

I keep confusing this issue with facts. I how how annoying that is for Trump cultists and Russian trolls.

 

[Faun]

LOL

Dormant .... means Shokin wasn't actively investigating.

And the international community who wanted him thrown out wanted that because he wasn't making a concerted effort to fight corruption.

Which means the investigation was not closed. If it was closed, then it wouldn't be 'dormant'.

Additionally, I don't know why you keep bringing up "the international community".

The "international community" has a problem with corruption in the Ukraine right now. Trump's call transcript, shows he talked for the vast majority of the call, about general corruption.

So if your excuse for Biden is "the international community", then our excuse for Trump is "the international community".

We're talking about was there an illegal act, such as a quid pro quo. Biden... clear quid pro quo, by his own words.

Trump... not so much.

Which is why I didn't say it was closed. I said Shokin was not actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

Which means there was no quid pro quo.

What??? The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

The quid pro quo was .... fire that guy, and I'll give you money. Did that happen? Yes it did.

Now you can argue that possible..... POSSIBLY.... that this did not directly benefit Hunter Biden.
I am somewhat sympathetic to that argument, that POSSIBLY.... this was not done specifically to help Hunter.

However, there is no more, and no less evidence against Biden, than their is Trump. There is no more evidence to suggest Trump had a quid pro quo, than Biden.

That's where my rub comes. I am honestly open to the possibility that Joe had no more of an interest than getting rid of a bad prosecutor. I'm open to that. However, there was a clear quid pro quo. It might have been a purely innocent quid pro quo, but it was a quid pro quo. You fire that guy, and I give you money. You don't, and I won't.

And I equally think that Trump was merely concerned about corruption. And I think he only mentioned that Biden was bragging he got the prosecutor removed, because it looked bad to Trump. And it does look bad. The news when this happened was all over the place about how it looked bad.... because it does.

See that's the difference between you and me. I am looking at this objectively.... and you are looking at this as a mindless partisan. That's why you can watch a video of Biden saying directly that he held up the money until a prosecutor was fired, and then say "see! no quid pro quo!".

"The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you"."The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

Biden was acting on the behalf of the United States. He gained nothing personally from it. That is not a crime.

Trump personally gained from it by attempting to tarnish a rival candidate. Which is why Trump engaged his own personal attorney to subvert official channels of communication with Ukraine's president.

Trump gained nothing. He released the money, without them investigating Biden.

You have the right to wrong, but it doesn't change the facts, just because you want to believe it.

Trump had Zelensky's commitment he would look into it. Zelensky told him he would assign a new prosecutor to the case in September. September 11th, Trump gives Zelensky $391 million.

 

[WEATHER53]

Which means the investigation was not closed. If it was closed, then it wouldn't be 'dormant'.

Additionally, I don't know why you keep bringing up "the international community".

The "international community" has a problem with corruption in the Ukraine right now. Trump's call transcript, shows he talked for the vast majority of the call, about general corruption.

So if your excuse for Biden is "the international community", then our excuse for Trump is "the international community".

We're talking about was there an illegal act, such as a quid pro quo. Biden... clear quid pro quo, by his own words.

Trump... not so much.

Which is why I didn't say it was closed. I said Shokin was not actively investigating Burisma when he was fired.

Which means there was no quid pro quo.

What??? The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

The quid pro quo was .... fire that guy, and I'll give you money. Did that happen? Yes it did.

Now you can argue that possible..... POSSIBLY.... that this did not directly benefit Hunter Biden.
I am somewhat sympathetic to that argument, that POSSIBLY.... this was not done specifically to help Hunter.

However, there is no more, and no less evidence against Biden, than their is Trump. There is no more evidence to suggest Trump had a quid pro quo, than Biden.

That's where my rub comes. I am honestly open to the possibility that Joe had no more of an interest than getting rid of a bad prosecutor. I'm open to that. However, there was a clear quid pro quo. It might have been a purely innocent quid pro quo, but it was a quid pro quo. You fire that guy, and I give you money. You don't, and I won't.

And I equally think that Trump was merely concerned about corruption. And I think he only mentioned that Biden was bragging he got the prosecutor removed, because it looked bad to Trump. And it does look bad. The news when this happened was all over the place about how it looked bad.... because it does.

See that's the difference between you and me. I am looking at this objectively.... and you are looking at this as a mindless partisan. That's why you can watch a video of Biden saying directly that he held up the money until a prosecutor was fired, and then say "see! no quid pro quo!".

"The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you"."The only thing that is required for a quid pro quo, is a "You do this for me, and I'll do this for you".

Biden was acting on the behalf of the United States. He gained nothing personally from it. That is not a crime.

Trump personally gained from it by attempting to tarnish a rival candidate. Which is why Trump engaged his own personal attorney to subvert official channels of communication with Ukraine's president.

Trump gained nothing. He released the money, without them investigating Biden.

You have the right to wrong, but it doesn't change the facts, just because you want to believe it.

Trump had Zelensky's commitment he would look into it. Zelensky told him he would assign a new prosecutor to the case in September. September 11th, Trump gives Zelensky $391 million.

Incorrect but don’t let that stop you(it never does anyway)