Forgotten History...

[Comrade]

<blockquote><b>Q. Does the USA PATRIOT Act authorize detention of people as enemy combatants?</b>
A: No. Enemy combatant status, which essentially permits detention of enemy soldiers during hostilities, as opposed to detention under the criminal justice system, pre-dates 9/11, and was approved by the Hague and Geneva Conventions. Enemy combatant status was used to detain a U.S. citizen who attempted sabotage during World War II. Nothing in the USA PATRIOT Act addresses enemy combatants.</blockquote>

No, but the citizen in question was not detained as an enemy combatant. I thought you had already understood that.

He was detained under the proceedures authorized for US citizens per the Patriot act.

 

[no1tovote4]

Only after the turd plopped down in the punchbowl. Two weeks before Gonzales' confirmation hearings were scheduled a new memo was issued repudiating the earlier memos condoning torture. And of course, Gonzales dodged the issue during his initial hearings.

And for the third time, his memos do not set policy, the are advisory. Policy in the military is set in writing and passed to the troops. By this time some member that believed it was wrong would have given those policies over to the media and rightly so. Simply, his memos had no effect.

The President set the policy when he declared the prisoners to be POWs and to be treated as such. That is a direct order issued by the CINC and actual policy. This is why those that participated in these actions are being prosecuted not because some efemeral higher ups are somehow getting away cleanly.

Turd and punchbowls notwithstanding the memos didn't have any actual bearing on setting the policy that was put into practice.

This is a dead fish you keep trying to catch with a wet fly. Just for your information he ain't biting, old son.

 

[no1tovote4]

The only ones getting it in the neck now are the grunts who got caught doing the dirty wofk for their higher ups. I believe justice is being done when Dubbyuh and his merry band are brought before the Hague for war crimes.

And you, my dear fellow, are living in a polyanish dreamworld.

And your fantasy has now infected every part and fiber of your being. When all the evidence points to one answer you keep insisting that it is another. 2+2 does not equal 5 no matter how many times you try to tell me it does. Even when you talk about turds and punchbowls it still doesn't add up.

Verifiable evidence shows that those that used torture are being punished, your assertion is they were allowed to do so.

Verifiable evidence and the decision of the SCOTUS says that the US is properly applying Habeas Corpus, your assertion is they are not.

You even tried to say that we weren't following the Geneva Convention, that was also shown to be incorrect by the evidence at hand.

Insisting you see a fire in a fish tank doesn't mean that there is one, it usually means that you are hallucinating. When other people don't rush in with a fire extinguisher it isn't because they don't care about the fire, they just see that it is filled with water and fish and that the fire is only in your mind.

 

[Hobbit]

And your fantasy has now infected every part and fiber of your being. When all the evidence points to one answer you keep insisting that it is another. 2+2 does not equal 5 no matter how many times you try to tell me it does. Even when you talk about turds and punchbowls it still doesn't add up.

Verifiable evidence shows that those that used torture are being punished, your assertion is they were allowed to do so.

Verifiable evidence and the decision of the SCOTUS says that the US is properly applying Habeas Corpus, your assertion is they are not.

You even tried to say that we weren't following the Geneva Convention, that was also shown to be incorrect by the evidence at hand.

Insisting you see a fire in a fish tank doesn't mean that there is one, it usually means that you are hallucinating. When other people don't rush in with a fire extinguisher it isn't because they don't care about the fire, they just see that it is filled with water and fish and that the fire is only in your mind.

:teeth: :teeth: :teeth:

LMAO. That's great.

 

[MissileMan]

Firstly, I am not introding constitutional law as applying to foreign citizens. I am, however, examining presidential powers under the Constitution. And the Constitution does not grant the POTUS the power to unilaterally suspend the right of <i>habeas corpus</i>.

Secondly, there are two classes of people that may be lawfully imprisoned in this country, prisoners of war and criminals. Both are protected under US law, with the former falling under the auspices of the Geneva Conventions and the latter under that of the Constitution. The POTUS has neither the power or authority to revoke either those protections or <i>habeas corpus</i> under the Constitution. Only Congress has that power, and they have not, thus far, granted it.

Thus, the president may not arbitrarily detain, indefinitely and without charge, either foreigners not declared either prisoners of war or criminals nor US citizens not adjudged to be criminals.

IMHO, the terrorists we have in detention are not Prisoners of War as that implies that they are soldiers. Being a soldier is an honorable profession. The detainees wouldn't know honor if it fell on them. If anything, they are war criminals. Since they are not prisoners of war, the Geneva Convention is out the window. Annnnnnd, since they are not U.S. citizens, they aren't bound by, or nor should they be protected by the Constitution. I'm not suggesting that they be held forever without any form of due process, however, they got themselves into this mess, let them lay in it for a while.

 

[OCA]

Actually they wouldn't. But in failing to keep to the moral high-ground any legitimacy our government's position might have had regarding the detentions in Gitmo and Abu Ghraib was lost. Not that that means anything to you. For you, the ends justify the means, even if you have to crawl over a mountain of bodies to reach it.

Goebbels would've hired you in a heartbeat.

You are correct, victory by any means neccessary.

Why are you more concerned with terrorists lives than the lives of your own citizens? Don't deny it there are hundreds of instances of proof from you on this board to verify this fact, a simple explanation will suffice.

 

[OCA]

And you are a quisling.

I see I struck a nerve, hey Tom Hayden called....he wants his save the Chicago 7(?) signs back and Jane wants to know when you want to visit Hanoi and Damascus again......traitor.

 

[OCA]

The only ones getting it in the neck now are the grunts who got caught doing the dirty wofk for their higher ups. I believe justice is being done when Dubbyuh and his merry band are brought before the Hague for war crimes.

And you, my dear fellow, are living in a polyanish dreamworld.

About Bush and his cronies being taken to the Hague on trumped up war crime charges.....wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which 1 fills up first. You are so far to the left you can't reason.

 

[Merlin1047]

Jose Padilla is still rotting in a brig in North Carolina. He has been held incommunicado and without charge since he was taken into custody. He is a US citizen, and his right of <i>habeas corpus</i> has been denied by this administration. The only thing I can tell he's guilty of is being too stupid to live.

And that's is the slippery slope the Administration leaves us poised on. Does the POTUS have the right to unilaterally suspend the Constitutional protections of US citizens? The Constitution says, "No.", in no uncertain terms.

I realize that I'm a little late at this party, but I just HAVE to back up and ask you this - Is THIS (following article) the Jose' Padilla upon which you base your argument? Do you really intend to seize upon the government's detention of a would-be terrorist who thought to give OBL plans for a hydrogen bomb to be used against his own country? Are you really intent on extrapolating that incident into another Bush bash fest and claim that we are being robbed of our liberties?

If so, all I can say is that's REALLY weak. Really, really, really weak.

Really.

===========================================
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,262917,00.html

The Case of the Dirty Bomber
How a Chicago street gangster allegedly became a soldier for Osama bin Laden
By AMANDA RIPLEY

Sunday, Jun. 16, 2002

It must have been one of Jose Padilla's proudest moments. He had spent his life chasing respect but rarely earning it—marking a dreary passage from a Chicago gang to juvenile detention to grownup prison to a Florida fast-food job and, finally, to a new life as a Muslim in the Middle East. And there he was, somewhere in Pakistan just six months after the Sept. 11 attacks, allegedly presenting an ominous proposal to Abu Zubaydah, Osama bin Laden's operations chief.

Padilla, 31, had prepped hard for his meeting, but his ambition outstripped his guile. Senior U.S. officials tell Time that Padilla, conducting research on the Internet, had come across instructions for building a nuclear bomb—"an H-bomb," as a top official described it. The instructions were laughably inaccurate—more a parody than a plan—but not recognizing that, Padilla took them to Abu Zubaydah and other al-Qaeda planners and said he wanted to detonate such a weapon in the U.S. "He was trying to build something that would attain a nuclear yield," says a senior Bush Administration official monitoring Padilla's case. In response, Abu Zubaydah apparently cautioned his eager job applicant to think smaller—to get some training and attack America with a so-called "dirty bomb," a conventional explosive packed with radioactive waste that would spew when the bomb blew up. "They sent him to the U.S. to see what he could do—plan and execute," the official says. What he did was get arrested as soon as he stepped off the plane on May 8, having come full circle, back to Chicago, the site of his first encounters with the law.

It is tempting to feel reassured by Padilla's story. Clearly, he is not the deadly, skilled operative Attorney General John Ashcroft seemed to be describing when he announced Padilla's arrest in a fear-inducing video hookup from Moscow last Monday. In fact, history may judge the Administration's legal treatment of Padilla—locking him up indefinitely with no plan to try him—as more alarming than Padilla himself. But since unsophisticated men can still do great harm, it was also comforting to know that U.S. intelligence agents had carefully tracked him down and picked him up.

Still, Padilla's lasting value may be as a warning bell—a reminder to keep exercising our imagination. "The main plotters and financiers for the Sept. 11 attack are still out there," says a top FBI official. "Padilla is one symptom of the fact that the core group is still around. They're able to communicate and move money around." The foot soldiers will not necessarily be Arab, nor will there always be a disciplined mastermind like Mohamed Atta leading them.

 

[OCA]

Does anybody now still wonder why without hesitation I claim that Bully hates America. The fact that he would give a shit about the rights of this dirtbag is testament to that very fact.

Bully you yourself should maybe face a firing squad, deportation at the very least.

 

[dilloduck]

Does anybody now still wonder why without hesitation I claim that Bully hates America. The fact that he would give a shit about the rights of this dirtbag is testament to that very fact.

Bully you yourself should maybe face a firing squad, deportation at the very least.

He's made it very plain that he doesn't like this version for sure !!

 

[OCA]

He's made it very plain that he doesn't like this version for sure !!

Well what version does he like? He claims to have hated Clinton also, can't get much farther apart than Bubba and Bush, is Bully a freakin anarchist?

Come on Bully out with it, give us your ideal version of a government and its leader.

 

[dilloduck]

Well what version does he like? He claims to have hated Clinton also, can't get much farther apart than Bubba and Bush, is Bully a freakin anarchist?

Come on Bully out with it, give us your ideal version of a government and its leader.

good luck---I 've asked that MANY times--no answer. Bullys' just a miscreant